Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 People, I would liike to throw up a horoscope for discussion. It belongs to the number one candidate in the Brazilian presidential elections. For along time now, he has been a major political figure in one of the major nations on the face of the Earth, one with the land mass of the continental USA and a population of somethinglike160 million. He is about to win the presidential election with wide support. He has a super strong lead in the polls with only three weeks to go. But there is contention about his birth time. Some throw around a birth time of 4:00 AM, while others throw around a birth time of 6:00 AM. Four AM gives a lagna of Virgo, and six AM gives Libra. The candidate seems to think that he was born at six o'clock, which would give Libra But I feel that it is impossible that he was born under Libra. Libra rising at 6:10 AM gives a debibitated Sun in the first house with nocancellation, and the lord of the first, Venus, debilitated in the house of loss with a nasty Jupiter. The major planetary period of Venus is operating.The Libra chart indicates a person with the status of a shoe shine boy.The Virgo chart places benefic Venus in the ascendent as the lord of a trine. The debilitation of Venus has a good bit of cancellation. The political planet, the Sun, is also debilitated, but does receive a good bit of cancellation under Virgo rising. This is not the case in the Libra chart. Virgo ascendent also combines another benefic, Jupiter, who is the lord of two quadrants combining with a trinal lord. Saturn aspects the ascendent from a great house as a trinal lord, and his base of support are theworkers. The major and sub periods are Venus-Saturn. He is rather girlish in his demeanor, which is more evidence in relation to Virgo. In fact, I would put his birth time at 4:15 AM which would give vargottama Virgo. This would provide justification for all the sentimental emotionalism that he gives off and help to account for his high status. Opinions? Dharma/Dean Attachment: (image/jpeg) Lula.jpg [not stored] Attachment: (image/gif) Lula Periodos.gif [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 The configuration seems to be ok, but let me put some points so that we can be sure of lagna a) For virgo lagna the only yogakaraka as per classical principles is venus. And for a political leader, the most important thing to consider is mass support. b) Saturn should be in a powerful position for mass support, especially from ghati lagna. Thus see if he has saturn in trines to ghati lagna in rasi, and dasamsa.c) It has been observed that libra lagna people have tremendous charisma and they are quite capapble of winning mass support due to the same. Saturn being a yogakaraka and leo being the 11th house of business friends could be some of the reasons.d) With libra lagna, saturn is in 10th house with mars. The debilitation of mars is automatically cancelled. e) There is an exchange between venus and mercury, so isn't it kind of cancelling the weakness of venus the lagnesh.f) I have not seen this person, so i cant comment on his girlish traits. But libra with debilitated sun in it is opposite to a fierce and radiant sun. So this is not a defect, but can show empathy.g) If you could give his birth details then the dasamsa and other vargas could be analysed.regardspartha Dean <0108 (AT) terra (DOT) com.br> wrote: People, I would liike to throw up a horoscope for discussion. It belongs to the number one candidate in the Brazilian presidential elections. For along time now, he has been a major political figure in one of the major nations on the face of the Earth, one with the land mass of the continental USA and a population of somethinglike160 million. He is about to win the presidential election with wide support. He has a super strong lead in the polls with only three weeks to go. But there is contention about his birth time. Some throw around a birth time of 4:00 AM, while others throw around a birth time of 6:00 AM. Four AM gives a lagna of Virgo, and six AM gives Libra. The candidate seems to think that he was born at six o'clock, which would give Libra But I feel that it is impossible that he was born under Libra. Libra rising at 6:10 AM gives a debibitated Sun in the first house with nocancellation, and the lord of the first, Venus, debilitated in the house of loss with a nasty Jupiter. The major planetary period of Venus is operating.The Libra chart indicates a person with the status of a shoe shine boy.The Virgo chart places benefic Venus in the ascendent as the lord of a trine. The debilitation of Venus has a good bit of cancellation. The political planet, the Sun, is also debilitated, but does receive a good bit of cancellation under Virgo rising. This is not the case in the Libra chart. Virgo ascendent also combines another benefic, Jupiter, who is the lord of two quadrants combining with a trinal lord. Saturn aspects the ascendent from a great house as a trinal lord, and his base of support are theworkers. The major and sub periods are Venus-Saturn. He is rather girlish in his demeanor, which is more evidence in relation to Virgo. In fact, I would put his birth time at 4:15 AM which would give vargottama Virgo. This would provide justification for all the sentimental emotionalism that he gives off and help to account for his high status. Opinions? Dharma/Dean Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, &; more faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Partha, Good points. I'll give you his birth info. He was born on October 27, 1945. Longitude: 34* 47 West Latitude: 08* 09 South Time Zone: 3 No daylight time was involved. The time is said by some to be 4:00 AM, by others to be around 6:10 AM. Food for thought and comments- The Libra chart could have a Vipreet raj yoga working in the 12th. But the debilitated Sun would still be smack in the first house. He used to be a metal worker amd a big union man. He is a socialist, and all of his support is from the masses and the poor. Saturn is prominent and favorable from both lagnas. He does not seem to be the exciteable type in public, but rather to be calm, cool and collected. Virgo would make him exciteable, but Saturn aspects. His speech is not educated, he speaks just like the poor classes from which he came. He speaks with bad grammar. Portuguese is difficult to speak correctly, and the poor speak a simplified form of it. He doesn't have much formal education, but has been schooled, briefed, ect., from within the party. He is a well-informed man. I have favored Virgo, but it has been brought to my attention that I don't know much about his life to be able to match in the first place. For example, I don't know how many brothers and sisters he has. ( I'm working on it ). But I don't see how the Libra chart could make a big man out of him, nor give a political career. Unless, of course, there is a vipreet yoga going on and I just didn't pay attention to it when I formed my opinion. But even if there is a vipreet effect under Libra, how could that nasty Sun in the ascendent allow much in the way of status or success? There is no real cancellation. Dharma/Dean vedic astrology, partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote: > > dear dean > The configuration seems to be ok, but let me put some points so that we can be sure of lagna > a) For virgo lagna the only yogakaraka as per classical principles is venus. And for a political leader, the most important thing to consider is mass support. > b) Saturn should be in a powerful position for mass support, especially from ghati lagna. Thus see if he has saturn in trines to ghati lagna in rasi, and dasamsa. > c) It has been observed that libra lagna people have tremendous charisma and they are quite capapble of winning mass support due to the same. Saturn being a yogakaraka and leo being the 11th house of business friends could be some of the reasons. > d) With libra lagna, saturn is in 10th house with mars. The debilitation of mars is automatically cancelled. > e) There is an exchange between venus and mercury, so isn't it kind of cancelling the weakness of venus the lagnesh. > f) I have not seen this person, so i cant comment on his girlish traits. But libra with debilitated sun in it is opposite to a fierce and radiant sun. So this is not a defect, but can show empathy. > g) If you could give his birth details then the dasamsa and other vargas could be analysed. > regards > partha > > Dean <0108@t...> wrote:People, I would liike to throw up a horoscope for discussion. It belongs to the number one candidate in the Brazilian presidential elections. For along time now, he has been a major political figure in one of the major nations on the face of the Earth, one with the land mass of the continental USA and a population of something > like160 million. He is about to win the presidential election with wide support. He has a super strong lead in the polls with only three weeks to go. > But there is contention about his birth time. Some throw around a birth time of 4:00 AM, while others throw around a birth time of 6:00 AM. Four AM gives a lagna of Virgo, and six AM gives Libra. The candidate seems to think that he was born at six o'clock, which would give Libra But I feel that it is impossible that he was born under Libra. Libra rising at 6:10 AM gives a debibitated Sun in the first house with no > cancellation, and the lord of the first, Venus, debilitated in the house of loss with a nasty Jupiter. The major planetary period of Venus is operating. > The Libra chart indicates a person with the status of a shoe shine boy. > > The Virgo chart places benefic Venus in the ascendent as the lord of a trine. The debilitation of Venus has a good bit of cancellation. The political planet, the Sun, is also debilitated, but does receive a good bit of cancellation under Virgo rising. This is not the case in the Libra chart. Virgo ascendent also combines another benefic, Jupiter, who is the lord of two quadrants combining with a trinal lord. Saturn aspects the ascendent from a great house as a trinal lord, and his base of support are the > workers. The major and sub periods are Venus-Saturn. > He is rather girlish in his demeanor, which is more evidence in relation to Virgo. In fact, I would put his birth time at 4:15 AM which would give vargottama Virgo. This would provide justification for all the sentimental emotionalism that he gives off and help to account for his high status. > Opinions? Dharma/Dean > > > > > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more > faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Dear Dean, I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon and Ascendant. Yes the lord of house in which he is posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading to a powerful NBRY. If you consider the fact that Mars aspects Ascendant you could unravel the mystery of his youthful appearance.Saturn the Planet of Democracy in 10th indicates his heading a democracy.If he had an humble begining and has some sparse hair and autocratic tendencies you can safely bet He has Libra ascendant.Libra represent Venus and Girlish appearance may have the origin there. With Virgo Ascendant Jupiter placed in Ascendant would give him a slightly corpulent figure. Venus gets Neechabhanga of sorts as the lord of the house in which he gets exaltation is conjunct with venus.Anyway Venus in 12thhouse is a minor rajayoga in itself as this is its exaltation rasi in the Natural Chart. As for Mahadasha Venus would give him Ascendant Lord's Dasha and for Libra Saturn is Yogakaraka.With venus /Mercury dashas for Libra this would be beneficial. In case of Virgo ascendant only first half of Saturn Antar dasha would have given him good result ,whereas the laterhalf would give good results.If he had a setback in Venus/Venus Maha and Antardasha you could safely assume Libra Ascendant. Chandrashekhar. - Dean vedic astrology Monday, October 07, 2002 4:49 PM [vedic astrology] Lula in Brazil People, I would liike to throw up a horoscope for discussion. It belongs to the number one candidate in the Brazilian presidential elections. For along time now, he has been a major political figure in one of the major nations on the face of the Earth, one with the land mass of the continental USA and a population of something like160 million. He is about to win the presidential election with wide support. He has a super strong lead in the polls with only three weeks to go. But there is contention about his birth time. Some throw around a birth time of 4:00 AM, while others throw around a birth time of 6:00 AM. Four AM gives a lagna of Virgo, and six AM gives Libra. The candidate seems to think that he was born at six o'clock, which would give Libra But I feel that it is impossible that he was born under Libra. Libra rising at 6:10 AM gives a debibitated Sun in the first house with no cancellation, and the lord of the first, Venus, debilitated in the house of loss with a nasty Jupiter. The major planetary period of Venus is operating. The Libra chart indicates a person with the status of a shoe shine boy. The Virgo chart places benefic Venus in the ascendent as the lord of a trine. The debilitation of Venus has a good bit of cancellation. The political planet, the Sun, is also debilitated, but does receive a good bit of cancellation under Virgo rising. This is not the case in the Libra chart. Virgo ascendent also combines another benefic, Jupiter, who is the lord of two quadrants combining with a trinal lord. Saturn aspects the ascendent from a great house as a trinal lord, and his base of support are the workers. The major and sub periods are Venus-Saturn. He is rather girlish in his demeanor, which is more evidence in relation to Virgo. In fact, I would put his birth time at 4:15 AM which would give vargottama Virgo. This would provide justification for all the sentimental emotionalism that he gives off and help to account for his high status. Opinions? Dharma/Dean Group info: vedic astrology/info.html To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Dean, > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon > and Ascendant. Chandra Shekhar, In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated that the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In this case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only give a bit of cancellation. Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in raj yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in the twelfth. Yes the lord of house in which he is > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading > to a powerful NBRY. Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a raj yoga. Dharma/Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Vyam Vyaasadevaaya Namah And still noone has really pointed out the Arudha Lagna. Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat Parasara Hora Shastra: vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html - Chandrashekhar Sharma vedic astrology Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:26 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Lula in Brazil Dear Dean,I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendantChart indicates one with the status of shoeshineboy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets NeechabhangaRaj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun getsexaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moonand Ascendant. Yes the lord of house in which he isposited is not in a quadrant from either.But theNeechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leadingto a powerful NBRY.If you consider the fact that Mars aspects Ascendantyou could unravel the mystery of his youthfulappearance.Saturn the Planet of Democracy in 10thindicates his heading a democracy.If he had an humblebegining and has some sparse hair and autocratictendencies you can safely bet He has Libraascendant.Libra represent Venus and Girlish appearancemay have the origin there.With Virgo Ascendant Jupiter placed in Ascendant wouldgive him a slightly corpulent figure.Venus gets Neechabhanga of sorts as the lord of thehouse in which he gets exaltation is conjunct withvenus.Anyway Venus in 12thhouse is a minor rajayoga initself as this is its exaltation rasi in the NaturalChart.As for Mahadasha Venus would give him Ascendant Lord'sDasha and for Libra Saturn is Yogakaraka.With venus/Mercury dashas for Libra this would be beneficial.In case of Virgo ascendant only first half of SaturnAntar dasha would have given him good result ,whereasthe laterhalf would give good results.If he had asetback in Venus/Venus Maha and Antardasha you couldsafely assume Libra Ascendant.Chandrashekhar.- Dean vedic astrology Monday, October 07, 2002 4:49 PM[vedic astrology] Lula in BrazilPeople,I would liike to throw up a horoscope for discussion.It belongs to the number one candidate in theBrazilian presidential elections. For along time now,he has been a major political figure in one of themajor nations on the face of the Earth, one with theland mass of the continental USA and a population ofsomethinglike160 million. He is about to win the presidentialelection with wide support. He has a super strong leadin the polls with only three weeks to go. But there is contention about his birth time. Somethrow around a birth time of 4:00 AM, while othersthrow around a birth time of 6:00 AM. Four AM gives alagna of Virgo, and six AM gives Libra. The candidateseems to think that he was born at six o'clock, whichwould give LibraBut I feel that it is impossible that he was bornunder Libra. Libra rising at 6:10 AM gives adebibitated Sun in the first house with nocancellation, and the lord of the first, Venus,debilitated in the house of loss with a nasty Jupiter.The major planetary period of Venus is operating.The Libra chart indicates a person with the status ofa shoe shine boy.The Virgo chart places benefic Venus in the ascendentas the lord of a trine. The debilitation of Venus hasa good bit of cancellation. The political planet, theSun, is also debilitated, but does receive a good bitof cancellation under Virgo rising. This is not thecase in the Libra chart. Virgo ascendent also combinesanother benefic, Jupiter, who is the lord of twoquadrants combining with a trinal lord. Saturn aspectsthe ascendent from a great house as a trinal lord, andhis base of support are theworkers. The major and sub periods are Venus-Saturn.He is rather girlish in his demeanor, which is moreevidence in relation to Virgo. In fact, I would puthis birth time at 4:15 AM which would give vargottamaVirgo. This would provide justification for all thesentimental emotionalism that he gives off and help toaccount for his high status. Opinions?Dharma/DeanArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info:vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail tovedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service. Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 I think you are not putting things in correct perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions Neecha Bhanga arising on account of about 5 different combinations. Refer to Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am certain that what you have quoted from A.M might have been out of context. Again Lord of 11th in Asc. indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. I.e. a selfmade man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as he represents Government.You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a Yogakaraka for Libra Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th house. Whereas for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be hinderance instead helpful in causing a rajyoga. Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being malefic owning Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact saturn in his exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 Panchmahapurusha yogas. Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said about NBRY in earlier posts in this list. Regards, Chandrashekhar - deandddd vedic astrology Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Dean,> I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant> Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine> boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga> Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets> exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon> and Ascendant.Chandra Shekhar,In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated that the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In this case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only give a bit of cancellation. Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in raj yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in the twelfth. Yes the lord of house in which he is> posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the> Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading> to a powerful NBRY.Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a raj yoga. Dharma/DeanArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Dean/ Dharma,I think you are not putting things in correct perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions Neecha Bhanga arising on account of about 5 different combinations. Refer to Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am certain that what you have quoted from A.M might have been out of context. * Chandrashekhar, * I know how the texts are translated, butI still doubt that the lord of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give cancellation. In this case, involving the debilitated Sun in Libra, I doubt that Mars -the lord of the Sun's exaltation sign- can provide any cancellation. I'll quote from The Astrological Magazine, September 1979, the article called Some Conumdrums in Predictive Astrology. " A stanza often quoted by most astrologers and astrological savants to define neechabhanga rajyoga is : Blah Blah Blah This is from Jataka Parijata and the same is quoted in Phaladeepika ... This simple sloka means: ' If at the time of birth a planet is debilitated and the lord of the sign where the planet is debilitated; or the planet that gets exalted there occupies a quadrant from the Moon or lagna, the person becomes a righteous ruler.' But some experts in the name of grammar have tried to twist the words chandralagnat and thaduchhanatha to mean from the position of the Moon alone and ' the lord of the exaltation sign ' of the debilitated planets, respectively." So when people tell you that the lord of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give cancellation if it is in a kendra, don't believe it. It is just a mistake of grammar, according to Bangalore Suryanarin Rao, Raman's grandfather. Again Lord of 11th in Asc. indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. I.e. a selfmade man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as he represents Government. * Ok, were the Sun real strong otherwise, but the Sun has only Saturn's position in the tenth to give cancellation, and Saturn is right on the same degree and practically the same minute as Mars. Ouch! Mars aspects the Sun, but its only good lordship is the seventh, Mars certainly isn't a yogakaraka. And then the lagna lord is debilitated in the house of loss. If the Sun in the first somehow overcomes weakness, that lagna lord ain't helping him to become a national leader of a major country. The Sun isn't so strong in the ascendent that he is lifting up the lagna lord with him. * Actually, there are other reasons why Virgo has to be Lula's chart, so it is a moot point. I'll send along the other reasons in a minute. You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a Yogakaraka for Libra Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th house.Whereas for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be hinderance instead helpful in causing a rajyoga. * Yeah, and he has lost three elections before this. But the Sun isn't in a quadrant or anything for Virgo. Carter had the Sun in the 12th in Virgo- you can see what a tiger of a president he was. * I'll send the other info along in a minute. * Dharma/Dean Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being malefic owning Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact saturn in his exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 Panchmahapurusha yogas.Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said about NBRY in earlier posts in this list.Regards,Chandrashekhar -- --- Original Message ----- deandddd vedic astrology Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AM[vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Dean, > > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant > > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine > > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga > > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets > > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon > > and Ascendant. > > Chandra Shekhar, > > > In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The > Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his > grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated that > the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been > typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really > refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In this > case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is > afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only give > a bit of cancellation. > > Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in raj > yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in > the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a > debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in > the twelfth. > > > Yes the lord of house in which he is > > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the > > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading > > to a powerful NBRY. > > Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a > raj yoga. > > Dharma/Dean > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Dean/Dharma. I did not know that the question you put on the list was a rhetorical question and that you had already concluded that the lagna is Virgo.This would therefore be my last posting on this subject. There are many interpretation of Shlokas given in Jataka Parijat and other classical texts.You could refer to what Sanjay Rathji has said about Neecha Bhanga Rajayoga on this very list somr time back.You will find it at variance with the interpretation of what you quote from Suryanarayan Rao. I also started my astrological studies with the books written by Dr. B.V. Raman and have greatest respect for the tremendous work he has put in for advancement of Vedic Astrology. However Vedic Astrology developed because the Acharayas were bold enough to conduct research and most of what is available are commentaraies on works of Ancient Sages.These were elaborated upon by various Astrologers on the bassis of their experience and also on basic principles of astrology stated by Ancient Sages. Even Dr. B.V. Raman emphasises in his "How to Judge a Horoscope" that strength of the Lord of a House or Bhava is more important than the strength of the Planet posited in the House.Please refer to page 5 of part one of the above reffered book in Chapter 2 Considerations in Judging a House. The very first point mentioned is"The strength Aspects, Conjunctions and locations of the Lord of the House" In the same Book at page 9 he states that Sun and Moon are neutrals when they own 2nd or 12th house.Position of 12th Lord in 2nd also doesnot bode well per vedic astrology. In sofar as your scepticism about Saturn being capable of giving rise to Rajayoga,India's current Prime minister Atal Behari Vajpeyi Has Saturn in Libra Ascendant and he became Primeminister when the transit Retrograde Saturn was placed in Neecha Aries the 7th House.He also suffered defeat in election earlier at Gwalior. I am however certain that you will take what ever I have written in the right spirit of furthering our knowledge of Jyotish and pardon me if I offend you.I trust that with your knowledge of astrology you will be able to arrive at right conclusions. Please do not take this to mean that I have concluded the Lula has Libra as Ascendant. I know almost nothing about his background and physical traits to come to any firm conclusion. This is just an academic discussion. With warm regards. - deandddd vedic astrology Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:18 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Dean/ Dharma,I think you are not putting things in correct perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions Neecha Bhanga arising on account of about 5 different combinations. Refer to Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am certain that what you have quoted from A.M might have been out of context. * Chandrashekhar,* I know how the texts are translated, butI still doubt that the lord of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give cancellation. In this case, involving the debilitated Sun in Libra, I doubt that Mars -the lord of the Sun's exaltation sign- can provide any cancellation. I'll quote from The Astrological Magazine, September 1979, the article called Some Conumdrums in Predictive Astrology. " A stanza often quoted by most astrologers and astrological savants to define neechabhanga rajyoga is :Blah Blah BlahThis is from Jataka Parijata and the same is quoted in Phaladeepika ....This simple sloka means: ' If at the time of birth a planet is debilitated and the lord of the sign where the planet is debilitated; or the planet that gets exalted there occupies a quadrant from the Moon or lagna, the person becomes a righteous ruler.' But some experts in the name of grammar have tried to twist the words chandralagnat and thaduchhanatha to mean from the position of the Moon alone and ' the lord of the exaltation sign ' of the debilitated planets, respectively." So when people tell you that the lord of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give cancellation if it is in a kendra, don't believe it. It is just a mistake of grammar, according to Bangalore Suryanarin Rao, Raman's grandfather. Again Lord of 11th in Asc. indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. I.e. a selfmade man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as he represents Government.* Ok, were the Sun real strong otherwise, but the Sun has only Saturn's position in the tenth to give cancellation, and Saturn is right on the same degree and practically the same minute as Mars. Ouch! Mars aspects the Sun, but its only good lordship is the seventh, Mars certainly isn't a yogakaraka. And then the lagna lord is debilitated in the house of loss. If the Sun in the first somehow overcomes weakness, that lagna lord ain't helping him to become a national leader of a major country. The Sun isn't so strong in the ascendent that he is lifting up the lagna lord with him.* Actually, there are other reasons why Virgo has to be Lula's chart, so it is a moot point. I'll send along the other reasons in a minute. You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a Yogakaraka for Libra Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th house.Whereas for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be hinderance instead helpful in causing a rajyoga. * Yeah, and he has lost three elections before this. But the Sun isn't in a quadrant or anything for Virgo. Carter had the Sun in the 12th in Virgo- you can see what a tiger of a president he was. * I'll send the other info along in a minute.* Dharma/Dean Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being malefic owning Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact saturn in his exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 Panchmahapurusha yogas.Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said about NBRY in earlier posts in this list.Regards,Chandrashekhar - deandddd To: vedic astrology Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AMSubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil> vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > wrote:> > Dear Dean,> > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant> > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine> > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga> > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets> > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon> > and Ascendant.> > Chandra Shekhar,> > > In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The > Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his > grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated that > the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been > typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really > refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In this > case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is > afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only give > a bit of cancellation. > > Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in raj > yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in > the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a > debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in > the twelfth. > > > Yes the lord of house in which he is> > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the> > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading> > to a powerful NBRY.> > Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a > raj yoga. > > Dharma/Dean> > > Sponsor> > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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Guest guest Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote: > Dear,Dean/Dharma.I did not know that the question you put on the list was a rhetorical question and that you had already concluded that the lagna is Virgo. * Dear Chandrashekar, * Sorry 'bout that. Sometimes I write real fast and don't think. I wanted feedback, originally, then went on in the meantime and did my own research and looked at the research of others. > This would therefore be my last posting on this subject.There are many interpretation of Shlokas given in Jataka Parijat and other classical texts.You could refer to what Sanjay Rathji has said about Neecha Bhanga Rajayoga on this very list somr time back.You will find it at variance with the interpretation of what you quote from Suryanarayan Rao. * Yeah, it is something to study and keep an eye on. > I also started my astrological studies with the books written by Dr. B.V. Raman and have greatest respect for the tremendous work he has put in for advancement of Vedic Astrology. * Yes, I like Raman very much, although I am not fanatic about him. I don't agree with the divided house system, nor the Raman ayanamsha. I love his books, though. > However Vedic Astrology developed because the Acharayas were bold enough to conduct research and most of what is available are commentaraies on works of Ancient Sages. * I think that it was imparted by celestial beings as something already developed. Such celestial beings are mentioned in the scpritures of all religions of the world. During the post Vedic period writings had the purpose of shoring up what had been lost. And they did research within the parameters of what had been given, not with the intention of inventing. IMHO > These were elaborated upon by various Astrologers on the bassis of their experience and also on basic principles of astrology stated by Ancient Sages. * I think that we are sayingthesame thing. > Even Dr. B.V. Raman emphasises in his "How to Judge a Horoscope" that strength of the Lord of a House or Bhava is more important than the strength of the Planet posited in the House. * Fine, but Venus, the lord of Libra, would still be debilitated in the twelfth. Its sign lord Mercury is in a quadrant from the Moon which implies cancellation, but that Mercury also sits with a debilitated planet who needs cancellation, and who is the twelfth lord to boot, so we can't be mechanical about cancellation. Again, Venus would have to be lifted out of debilitation from the evil twelfth, which would really require something unusual. Cancellation means that there is enough strength from other sources to overcome the debilitation effects. So you have to say " Ok, Venus is debilitated AND occupies an evil house. How does he get enough strength to overcome THAT and become a national leader, the president?" And even without considering that the lord of Libra lagna is debilitated or has cancellation, it occupies the twelfth. * I have noted your comments below and I understand. It is nice to talk about these things. I learn from discussion and feedback. * I really felt that it was obvious, though, that the Libra chart wouldn't be the chart of a national leader because of the weak ascendent. * Dharma/Dean Please refer to page 5 of part one of the above reffered book in Chapter 2 Considerations in Judging a House. The very first point mentioned is"The strength Aspects, Conjunctions and locations of the Lord of the House" In the same Book at page 9 he states that Sun and Moon are neutrals when they own 2nd or 12th house.Position of 12th Lord in 2nd also doesnot bode well per vedic astrology. In sofar as your scepticism about Saturn being capable of giving rise to Rajayoga,India's current Prime minister Atal Behari VajpeyiHas Saturn in Libra Ascendant and he became Primeminister when the transit Retrograde Saturn was placed in Neecha Aries the 7th House.He also suffered defeat in election earlier at Gwalior. I am however certain that you will take what ever I have written in the right spirit of furthering our knowledge of Jyotish and pardon me if I offend you.I trust that with your knowledge of astrology you will be able to arrive at right conclusions. Please do not take this to mean that I have concluded the Lula has Libra as Ascendant. I know almost nothing about his background and physical traits to come to any firm conclusion. This is just an academic discussion. With warm regards. ----- Original Message ----- deandddd vedic astrology Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:18 AM[vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Dean/ Dharma,I think you are not putting things in correct > perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions Neecha Bhanga > arising on account of about 5 different combinations. Refer to > Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am certain that what > you have quoted from A.M might have been out of context. > > * Chandrashekhar, > > * I know how the texts are translated, butI still doubt that the lord > of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give > cancellation. In this case, involving the debilitated Sun in Libra, I > doubt that Mars -the lord of the Sun's exaltation sign- can provide > any cancellation. > > I'll quote from The Astrological Magazine, September 1979, the > article called Some Conumdrums in Predictive Astrology. " A stanza > often quoted by most astrologers and astrological savants to define > neechabhanga rajyoga is : > > Blah Blah Blah > > This is from Jataka Parijata and the same is quoted in > Phaladeepika ... > > This simple sloka means: ' If at the time of birth a planet is > debilitated and the lord of the sign where the planet is debilitated; > or the planet that gets exalted there occupies a quadrant from the > Moon or lagna, the person becomes a righteous ruler.' But some > experts in the name of grammar have tried to twist the words > chandralagnat and thaduchhanatha to mean from the position of the > Moon alone and ' the lord of the exaltation sign ' of the debilitated > planets, respectively." > > So when people tell you that the lord of the exaltation sign of the > debilitated planet can give cancellation if it is in a kendra, don't > believe it. It is just a mistake of grammar, according to Bangalore > Suryanarin Rao, Raman's grandfather. > > Again Lord of 11th in Asc. > indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. I.e. a selfmade > man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as he represents > Government. > > * Ok, were the Sun real strong otherwise, but the Sun has only > Saturn's position in the tenth to give cancellation, and Saturn is > right on the same degree and practically the same minute as Mars. > Ouch! Mars aspects the Sun, but its only good lordship is the > seventh, Mars certainly isn't a yogakaraka. And then the lagna lord > is debilitated in the house of loss. If the Sun in the first somehow > overcomes weakness, that lagna lord ain't helping him to become a > national leader of a major country. The Sun isn't so strong in the > ascendent that he is lifting up the lagna lord with him. > > * Actually, there are other reasons why Virgo has to be Lula's chart, > so it is a moot point. I'll send along the other reasons in a minute. > > You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a Yogakaraka for Libra > Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th house.Whereas > for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be hinderance instead > helpful in causing a rajyoga. > > * Yeah, and he has lost three elections before this. But the Sun > isn't in a quadrant or anything for Virgo. Carter had the Sun in the > 12th in Virgo- you can see what a tiger of a president he was. > > * I'll send the other info along in a minute. > > * Dharma/Dean > Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being malefic owning > Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact saturn in his > exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 Panchmahapurusha > yogas.Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said about NBRY in > earlier posts in this > list.Regards,Chandrashekhar -- > --- Original Message ----- deandddd vedic astrology > Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AM[vedic astrology] > Re: Lula in Brazil > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > Dear Dean, > > > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant > > > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine > > > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga > > > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets > > > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon > > > and Ascendant. > > > > Chandra Shekhar, > > > > > > In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The > > Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his > > grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated > that > > the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been > > typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really > > refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In > this > > case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is > > afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only > give > > a bit of cancellation. > > > > Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in > raj > > yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in > > the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a > > debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in > > the twelfth. > > > > > > Yes the lord of house in which he is > > > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the > > > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading > > > to a powerful NBRY. > > > > Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a > > raj yoga. > > > > Dharma/Dean > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 Dear Dean, I am happy that you hve taken my comments in right spirit, so I am writing again.This about your contention about weakness of Venus in 12th. I would like to draw your attention two Two basic tenets of Vedic Astrology in this regard. First is that a planet placed in his exaltation sign in Natural Horoscope with first Bhava being treated as Aries and so on, gives special results nearing as if in exaltation sign, though not as strong. Second tenet is that when there is exchange of places between two house lords, each of them acts as if in his own house.This is known as Anyonayoga. Need I say more? Chandrashekhar. - deandddd vedic astrology Saturday, October 12, 2002 8:30 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote: > Dear,Dean/Dharma.I did not know that the question you put on the list was a rhetorical question and that you had already concluded that the lagna is Virgo. * Dear Chandrashekar, * Sorry 'bout that. Sometimes I write real fast and don't think. I wanted feedback, originally, then went on in the meantime and did my own research and looked at the research of others. > This would therefore be my last posting on this subject.There are many interpretation of Shlokas given in Jataka Parijat and other classical texts.You could refer to what Sanjay Rathji has said about Neecha Bhanga Rajayoga on this very list somr time back.You will find it at variance with the interpretation of what you quote from Suryanarayan Rao. * Yeah, it is something to study and keep an eye on. > I also started my astrological studies with the books written by Dr. B.V. Raman and have greatest respect for the tremendous work he has put in for advancement of Vedic Astrology. * Yes, I like Raman very much, although I am not fanatic about him. I don't agree with the divided house system, nor the Raman ayanamsha. I love his books, though. > However Vedic Astrology developed because the Acharayas were bold enough to conduct research and most of what is available are commentaraies on works of Ancient Sages. * I think that it was imparted by celestial beings as something already developed. Such celestial beings are mentioned in the scpritures of all religions of the world. During the post Vedic period writings had the purpose of shoring up what had been lost. And they did research within the parameters of what had been given, not with the intention of inventing. IMHO > These were elaborated upon by various Astrologers on the bassis of their experience and also on basic principles of astrology stated by Ancient Sages. * I think that we are sayingthesame thing. > Even Dr. B.V. Raman emphasises in his "How to Judge a Horoscope" that strength of the Lord of a House or Bhava is more important than the strength of the Planet posited in the House. * Fine, but Venus, the lord of Libra, would still be debilitated in the twelfth. Its sign lord Mercury is in a quadrant from the Moon which implies cancellation, but that Mercury also sits with a debilitated planet who needs cancellation, and who is the twelfth lord to boot, so we can't be mechanical about cancellation. Again, Venus would have to be lifted out of debilitation from the evil twelfth, which would really require something unusual. Cancellation means that there is enough strength from other sources to overcome the debilitation effects. So you have to say " Ok, Venus is debilitated AND occupies an evil house. How does he get enough strength to overcome THAT and become a national leader, the president?" And even without considering that the lord of Libra lagna is debilitated or has cancellation, it occupies the twelfth. * I have noted your comments below and I understand. It is nice to talk about these things. I learn from discussion and feedback. * I really felt that it was obvious, though, that the Libra chart wouldn't be the chart of a national leader because of the weak ascendent. * Dharma/Dean Please refer to page 5 of part one of the above reffered book in Chapter 2 Considerations in Judging a House. The very first point mentioned is"The strength Aspects, Conjunctions and locations of the Lord of the House" In the same Book at page 9 he states that Sun and Moon are neutrals when they own 2nd or 12th house.Position of 12th Lord in 2nd also doesnot bode well per vedic astrology. In sofar as your scepticism about Saturn being capable of giving rise to Rajayoga,India's current Prime minister Atal Behari VajpeyiHas Saturn in Libra Ascendant and he became Primeminister when the transit Retrograde Saturn was placed in Neecha Aries the 7th House.He also suffered defeat in election earlier at Gwalior. I am however certain that you will take what ever I have written in the right spirit of furthering our knowledge of Jyotish and pardon me if I offend you.I trust that with your knowledge of astrology you will be able to arrive at right conclusions. Please do not take this to mean that I have concluded the Lula has Libra as Ascendant. I know almost nothing about his background and physical traits to come to any firm conclusion. This is just an academic discussion. With warm regards. ----- Original Message ----- deandddd vedic astrology Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:18 AM[vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Dean/ Dharma,I think you are not putting things in correct > perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions Neecha Bhanga > arising on account of about 5 different combinations. Refer to > Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am certain that what > you have quoted from A.M might have been out of context. > > * Chandrashekhar, > > * I know how the texts are translated, butI still doubt that the lord > of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can give > cancellation. In this case, involving the debilitated Sun in Libra, I > doubt that Mars -the lord of the Sun's exaltation sign- can provide > any cancellation. > > I'll quote from The Astrological Magazine, September 1979, the > article called Some Conumdrums in Predictive Astrology. " A stanza > often quoted by most astrologers and astrological savants to define > neechabhanga rajyoga is : > > Blah Blah Blah > > This is from Jataka Parijata and the same is quoted in > Phaladeepika ... > > This simple sloka means: ' If at the time of birth a planet is > debilitated and the lord of the sign where the planet is debilitated; > or the planet that gets exalted there occupies a quadrant from the > Moon or lagna, the person becomes a righteous ruler.' But some > experts in the name of grammar have tried to twist the words > chandralagnat and thaduchhanatha to mean from the position of the > Moon alone and ' the lord of the exaltation sign ' of the debilitated > planets, respectively." > > So when people tell you that the lord of the exaltation sign of the > debilitated planet can give cancellation if it is in a kendra, don't > believe it. It is just a mistake of grammar, according to Bangalore > Suryanarin Rao, Raman's grandfather. > > Again Lord of 11th in Asc. > indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. I.e. a selfmade > man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as he represents > Government. > > * Ok, were the Sun real strong otherwise, but the Sun has only > Saturn's position in the tenth to give cancellation, and Saturn is > right on the same degree and practically the same minute as Mars. > Ouch! Mars aspects the Sun, but its only good lordship is the > seventh, Mars certainly isn't a yogakaraka. And then the lagna lord > is debilitated in the house of loss. If the Sun in the first somehow > overcomes weakness, that lagna lord ain't helping him to become a > national leader of a major country. The Sun isn't so strong in the > ascendent that he is lifting up the lagna lord with him. > > * Actually, there are other reasons why Virgo has to be Lula's chart, > so it is a moot point. I'll send along the other reasons in a minute. > > You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a Yogakaraka for Libra > Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th house.Whereas > for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be hinderance instead > helpful in causing a rajyoga. > > * Yeah, and he has lost three elections before this. But the Sun > isn't in a quadrant or anything for Virgo. Carter had the Sun in the > 12th in Virgo- you can see what a tiger of a president he was. > > * I'll send the other info along in a minute. > > * Dharma/Dean > Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being malefic owning > Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact saturn in his > exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 Panchmahapurusha > yogas.Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said about NBRY in > earlier posts in this > list.Regards,Chandrashekhar -- > --- Original Message ----- deandddd To: vedic astrology > Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AMSubject: [vedic astrology] > Re: Lula in Brazil > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > Dear Dean, > > > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra ascendant > > > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine > > > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets Neechabhanga > > > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets > > > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both Moon > > > and Ascendant. > > > > Chandra Shekhar, > > > > > > In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological Magazine, The > > Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. Rao, his > > grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported to have stated > that > > the lord of the exaltation sign can give cancellation have been > > typically translated erroneously. It was explained that they really > > refer to the planet who is exalted in the debilitation sign. In > this > > case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a quadrant. But Saturn is > > afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that Saturn can only > give > > a bit of cancellation. > > > > Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh cannotparticipate in > raj > > yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but it is raj yoga in > > the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad lord and a > > debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord is debilitated in > > the twelfth. > > > > > > Yes the lord of house in which he is > > > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the > > > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun leading > > > to a powerful NBRY. > > > > Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord participating in a > > raj yoga. > > > > Dharma/Dean > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. > > > Sponsor > > Archives: vedic astrology > > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. Group info: vedic astrology/info.html To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Terms of Service. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 Chandrashekar, I have enjoyed this exchange and learned a few things. In the ultimate issue, each has to decide what works for him, but I will keep your comments in mind. You have had, my friend, the last word! And I mean this in the good way. Yours, Dharma/Dean vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Dean, > I am happy that you hve taken my comments in right > spirit, so I am writing again.This about your > contention about weakness of Venus in 12th. > I would like to draw your attention two Two basic > tenets of Vedic Astrology in this regard. > First is that a planet placed in his exaltation sign > in Natural Horoscope with first Bhava being treated as > Aries and so on, gives special results nearing as if > in exaltation sign, though not as strong. > Second tenet is that when there is exchange of places > between two house lords, each of them acts as if in > his own house.This is known as Anyonayoga. > Need I say more? > Chandrashekhar. > - > deandddd > vedic astrology > Saturday, October 12, 2002 8:30 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Lula in Brazil > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma > <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear,Dean/Dharma.I did not know that the question > you put on the > list was a rhetorical question and that you had > already concluded > that the lagna is Virgo. > > * Dear Chandrashekar, > > * Sorry 'bout that. Sometimes I write real fast and > don't think. I > wanted feedback, originally, then went on in the > meantime and did my > own research and looked at the research of others. > > > This would therefore be my last posting on this > subject.There are > many interpretation of Shlokas given in Jataka Parijat > and other > classical texts.You could refer to what Sanjay Rathji > has said about > Neecha Bhanga Rajayoga on this very list somr time > back.You will find > it at variance with the interpretation of what you > quote from > Suryanarayan Rao. > > * Yeah, it is something to study and keep an eye on. > > > I also started my astrological studies with the > books written by > Dr. B.V. Raman and have greatest respect for the > tremendous work he > has put in for advancement of Vedic Astrology. > > * Yes, I like Raman very much, although I am not > fanatic about him. I > don't agree with the divided house system, nor the > Raman ayanamsha. I > love his books, though. > > > However Vedic Astrology developed because the > Acharayas were bold > enough to conduct research and most of what is > available are > commentaraies on works of Ancient Sages. > > * I think that it was imparted by celestial beings as > something > already developed. Such celestial beings are mentioned > in the > scpritures of all religions of the world. During the > post Vedic > period writings had the purpose of shoring up what had > been lost. And > they did research within the parameters of what had > been given, not > with the intention of inventing. IMHO > > > These were elaborated upon by various Astrologers on > the bassis of > their experience and also on basic principles of > astrology stated by > Ancient Sages. > > * I think that we are sayingthesame thing. > > > Even Dr. B.V. Raman emphasises in his "How to Judge > a Horoscope" > that strength of the Lord of a House or Bhava is more > important than > the strength of the Planet posited in the House. > > * Fine, but Venus, the lord of Libra, would still be > debilitated in > the twelfth. Its sign lord Mercury is in a quadrant > from the Moon > which implies cancellation, but that Mercury also sits > with a > debilitated planet who needs cancellation, and who is > the twelfth > lord to boot, so we can't be mechanical about > cancellation. Again, > Venus would have to be lifted out of debilitation from > the evil > twelfth, which would really require something unusual. > Cancellation > means that there is enough strength from other sources > to overcome > the debilitation effects. So you have to say " Ok, > Venus is > debilitated AND occupies an evil house. How does he > get enough > strength to overcome THAT and become a national > leader, the > president?" And even without considering that the lord > of Libra lagna > is debilitated or has cancellation, it occupies the > twelfth. > > * I have noted your comments below and I understand. > It is nice to > talk about these things. I learn from discussion and > feedback. > > * I really felt that it was obvious, though, that the > Libra chart > wouldn't be the chart of a national leader because of > the weak > ascendent. > > * Dharma/Dean > > Please refer to page 5 of part one of the above > reffered book in > Chapter 2 Considerations in Judging a House. The very > first point > mentioned is"The strength Aspects, Conjunctions and > locations of the > Lord of the House" In the same Book at page 9 he > states that Sun and > Moon are neutrals when they own 2nd or 12th > house.Position of 12th > Lord in 2nd also doesnot bode well per vedic > astrology. In sofar as > your scepticism about Saturn being capable of giving > rise to > Rajayoga,India's current Prime minister Atal Behari > VajpeyiHas Saturn > in Libra Ascendant and he became Primeminister when > the transit > Retrograde Saturn was placed in Neecha Aries the 7th > House.He also > suffered defeat in election earlier at Gwalior. I am > however certain > that you will take what ever I have written in the > right spirit of > furthering our knowledge of Jyotish and pardon me if I > offend you.I > trust that with your knowledge of astrology you will > be able to > arrive at right conclusions. Please do not take this > to mean that I > have concluded the Lula has Libra as Ascendant. I know > almost nothing > about his background and physical traits to come to > any firm > conclusion. This is just an academic discussion. With > warm > regards. ----- > Original > Message ----- deandddd vedic astrology > Thursday, > October 10, 2002 4:18 AM[vedic astrology] Re: > Lula in Brazil > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma > <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > Dear Dean/ Dharma,I think you are not putting > things in correct > > perspective.First is that Jataka Parijaat mentions > Neecha Bhanga > > arising on account of about 5 different > combinations. Refer to > > Shloka 13 of the above treatise in Rajyogadhya.I am > certain that > what > > you have quoted from A.M might have been out of > context. > > > > * Chandrashekhar, > > > > * I know how the texts are translated, butI still > doubt that the > lord > > of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet can > give > > cancellation. In this case, involving the > debilitated Sun in Libra, > I > > doubt that Mars -the lord of the Sun's exaltation > sign- can provide > > any cancellation. > > > > I'll quote from The Astrological Magazine, September > 1979, the > > article called Some Conumdrums in Predictive > Astrology. " A stanza > > often quoted by most astrologers and astrological > savants to define > > neechabhanga rajyoga is : > > > > Blah Blah Blah > > > > This is from Jataka Parijata and the same is quoted > in > > Phaladeepika ... > > > > This simple sloka means: ' If at the time of birth a > planet is > > debilitated and the lord of the sign where the > planet is > debilitated; > > or the planet that gets exalted there occupies a > quadrant from the > > Moon or lagna, the person becomes a righteous > ruler.' But some > > experts in the name of grammar have tried to twist > the words > > chandralagnat and thaduchhanatha to mean from the > position of the > > Moon alone and ' the lord of the exaltation sign ' > of the > debilitated > > planets, respectively." > > > > So when people tell you that the lord of the > exaltation sign of the > > debilitated planet can give cancellation if it is in > a kendra, > don't > > believe it. It is just a mistake of grammar, > according to Bangalore > > Suryanarin Rao, Raman's grandfather. > > > > Again Lord > of 11th in > Asc. > > indicates a person who earns from his own efforts. > I.e. a selfmade > > man.Sun in Ascendant would give powers of a King as > he represents > > Government. > > > > * Ok, were the Sun real strong otherwise, but the > Sun has only > > Saturn's position in the tenth to give cancellation, > and Saturn is > > right on the same degree and practically the same > minute as Mars. > > Ouch! Mars aspects the Sun, but its only good > lordship is the > > seventh, Mars certainly isn't a yogakaraka. And then > the lagna lord > > is debilitated in the house of loss. If the Sun in > the first > somehow > > overcomes weakness, that lagna lord ain't helping > him to become a > > national leader of a major country. The Sun isn't so > strong in the > > ascendent that he is lifting up the lagna lord with > him. > > > > * Actually, there are other reasons why Virgo has to > be Lula's > chart, > > so it is a moot point. I'll send along the other > reasons in a > minute. > > > > You must also be knowing that Saturn becomes a > Yogakaraka for Libra > > Ascendant by virtue of his being lord of 4th and 5th > house.Whereas > > for Virgo ascendant Sun is 12th lord and would be > hinderance > instead > > helpful in causing a rajyoga. > > > > * Yeah, and he has lost three elections before this. > But the Sun > > isn't in a quadrant or anything for Virgo. Carter > had the Sun in > the > > 12th in Virgo- you can see what a tiger of a > president he was. > > > > * I'll send the other info along in a minute. > > > > * Dharma/Dean > > Saturn also is not Bad Planet for Libra as being > malefic owning > > Quadrant he becomes auspicious.As a matter of fact > saturn in his > > exaltation sign in Kendra causes one of the 5 > Panchmahapurusha > > yogas.Please also refer to what Sanjay Guru has said > about NBRY in > > earlier posts in this > > > list.Regards,Chandrashekhar > -- > > --- Original Message ----- deandddd To: > vedic astrology > > Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:58 AMSubject: > [vedic astrology] > > Re: Lula in Brazil > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar Sharma > <boxdel> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Dean, > > > > I fail to understand why you feel that Libra > ascendant > > > > Chart indicates one with the status of shoeshine > > > > boy.With Libra ascendant the Sun gets > Neechabhanga > > > > Raj Yoga.The lord of house in which Sun gets > > > > exaltation is Mars and is in Quadrant with Both > Moon > > > > and Ascendant. > > > > > > Chandra Shekhar, > > > > > > > > > In the September of 1979 issue of The Astrological > Magazine, The > > > Ramans reproduce some statements from Bangalore S. > Rao, his > > > grandfather, to the effect that slokas purported > to have stated > > that > > > the lord of the exaltation sign can give > cancellation have been > > > typically translated erroneously. It was explained > that they > really > > > refer to the planet who is exalted in the > debilitation sign. In > > this > > > case it would be Saturn, who does sit in a > quadrant. But Saturn > is > > > afflicted by sitting with Mars, so I think that > Saturn can only > > give > > > a bit of cancellation. > > > > > > Even so, the Sun as the lord of the eleventh > cannotparticipate in > > raj > > > yoga, right? There is raj yoga in the tenth, but > it is raj yoga > in > > > the chart where the ascendent is occupied by a bad > lord and a > > > debilitated planet, and where the ascendent lord > is debilitated > in > > > the twelfth. > > > > > > > > > Yes the lord of house in which he is > > > > posited is not in a quadrant from either.But the > > > > Neechasign lord Mercury is conjunct with Sun > leading > > > > to a powerful NBRY. > > > > > > Again, I don't see the Sun as the eleventh lord > participating in > a > > > raj yoga. > > > > > > Dharma/Dean > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > > > > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology-@e... > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits > your needs. > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology-@e... > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu > || > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your > needs. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology-@e... > > ....... 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