Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Dear pandit arjun, Krishnan, others I do agree there is apparent contradictions in the system and which systemto use etc as I have said on a few earlier occassions Parashara had said in Kaliyoga that UDU or Vimshottari to delvier the results. and many of his writings several thousand of years ago have stood the test of time, the problem likes in the expediency or rush to delvier a result, that we mix or use a few systems which may work at times. The fact that parasha'rs own deciple came out with Jaimini Jyothsya which shows you can reach any point from a different point and get to the destination. WHEN WE MIX Parashari and Jaimini we run into more trouble the 3 avastha Bala, Yuvana, Vrudha avastha in Parashari and Atma, AMatya karakas etc in Jaimini, the Badhakas are Jaiminis when it is brought into parashari it destroys astrology fully as there will be no benefic, exalted planet as well in any horoscope. yogakaras with badhakapatis you must find no one having a good chart in any level of any Yuga or any land. be it Bill gates or a begger all charts are alike with just malefic yogas as Badhakas will work on any good combination.but do we find it in reality no there are differences in people isn't it. ideal is to use one system well any short cuts or quick fixes will confuse the system. also the ayanamsha is another may be have a test on a few charts here say with retired persons or one with 25yrs min of active worked life and run it people using diferent ayanamsa explain their analysis and test it and find some path for all of us. the data must have all major life events listed to work on, early life, change of place even when with parents, awards, injuries, accidents, sickness, jobs, marriage, children, buying anyd selling assets, losses, litigations, travels in gen and foreign if any with places. about house/environment whenver any change has occured it must give some clues on direction.of change, environment where they are say near a factory, bank, school, hospital, temple, church mosque, water front, petrol bunk drain etc. WHY WE FIND differences in different astrologers reading is based on a few factors which I've already listed and sure readers can suggest there are more too. like the Desham kala, paisthithi using min. chart strenghts/weakness, dasas, gochara, ashtakavargas and shadbalas. the perfect equiladetral triangle that needs to be established to get an answer a the querist must have a sincere effort, issue in asking the astrologer and devine grace when in harmony only we get good results else computer programs can do it isn't it. if there is some karma shesha and one is not destined toget a good reading or timely reading even fromthe best inthe field it will be so as the devine grace will fail the astrologer or the person with excess karmashesh has to run the distance of it before finding the right person or him to give him an appointment to guide him till then it may not work if people with good karma base approach an astrooger surely even average ones can give them good directions. so that is always the case we have B/F some karma in this life from past so it has to folow the same as humans we have mor eintellect so better use to improve this life if we are unhappy about it, by improving it and in due course the future lives. else can continue to drift. with regards Prashant 20/4 panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: dear krishnan ji you wrote: "iam afraid some times they question also reliability of the science of jyotish too." i appreciate your honest observation which i fully agree. even i too have been vocal in saying that our astrology has inherent contradictions and as a system (one type of system alone) it just does not work. Lalkitab is gaining more acceptance only becasue of it having less ambiguities. these days in every group we are finding several ayanamshas. various dasa systems are used by various astrologers and they all contradict each other. in the old samhitas, the sages have written that if a native is born in shukla paksha, ashtottari dasa shall be reckoned and if a native is born in krishna paksha, vimshottari dasa shall be reckoned. any logic why ketu is removed from the dasa system in ashottari even though he was allotted the nakshatras? also any logic BASED ON SCIENCE why the invisible rahu and ketu are allotted nakshatras in the first place? in the last 50 years or so, vimshottari was used most in the north and ashtottari was used in the south. recently the other dasas like yogini and even the rashi based dasa systems have also been used liberally by researchers. all these various contradicting predictions based on the same chart makes the querent confused as to which one he belive or rely, for he finds no logic in any. also several yogas (like vipareeta rajayoga, neechabhangarajayoga, kalasarpayoga, manglik yoga, grahana yoga etc.) which were not written in the original samhitas have gained so much popularity that if i say that they do not exist like the website astrojyoti.com did, people flash 1001 books written by the eminent astrologers supporting and explaining these recently invented yogas, thanks to their shishyas for making them best sellers. truly astrology has so many inherent contradictions. most of my predictions are based on divine intuition only and the horoscope and the vimshottari dasa i follow are only for getting a basic overview. with best wishes and regards arjun , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Sir, > I ceratainly hold the view from the point of tropical astrology and their understanding and refinement yet to come up. > where as in our geocentric approach and it's link to laws of science(geograpahy,geology and astronomy etc) mayb issues of scientific relevance.In fact let me acknowledge my views about my Guru Shri K.N.Rao who sledoms sees eye to eye with Raman ayanamsha (and ofcourse has his own ayanamsha too) does not hold these emerging point in any way hindering the success rate of prediction.what really bothers in individual studies the accuracies in birth time data and lack od recorded data except some hear say. > since we check our data based on lahiri ayanamsha with other option we do not really go astray.may not be able ofcourse convince realities and anxities of individuals in solving their riddles. > Gocharah/transit too according to traditional panchangs too vary.I think misconceptions of reognition of years,lunar movements and calendar corrections along with DSt make issues ambiguous.iam afraid some times they question also reliability of the science of jyotish too.Even in our views also we are appearing to be evasive though we debate and brainstorm some times).Jyotish from point of view of results has not given the required filip to professional.it is different some people beat trumpets.yet ther definitive part of future mysteriously at stake. > krishnan > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: > Dear Krishnan ji, > > I hope I have not given the impression to anyone that I use or > endorse parallax corrected moon. There used to be a swedish jyotishi, > Martin Gansten who wrote a chapter on the algorithm of bhrigu nadi in > the anthology (36 teachers -- one of the last works edited by Richard > Houck) who was very strongly convinced on jyotish group and stated > that parallax-corrected moon is the only way to go. He convinced > Goravani, one of the forum members to include parallax corrected moon > as an option. There was a long discussion thread there and it was > expressed that since jyotish believes in drig positions of planets > (what you see is what you get, as opposed to tropical zodiac where > planets against constellations in the sky do not match with the > stated zodiacal positions which in tropical astrology is earth based - > - more later on). > > All I was pointing out was that there may be some individuals who > still utilize parallax corrected moon but in a couple of cases the > effect of parallax corrected moon was nullified by use of raman vs > lahiri ayanamsha (raman without parallax correction gave the same > dasha bhukti as did lahiri with parallax correction. One of the > examples I recall was DiPalma's assasination). > > I was therefore, just pointing out that if we try to pinpoint > something by looking at just one factor we could go astray. > > The same is the case with dasha year and other factors recently > enumerated and listed in a message. > > For one to definitively say, particularly when a drastic departure > from the 'norm' or acceptable values is concerned that their value is > the only right one, one would have to demonstrate that they have > taken all other variables into account (researchers call it > controlling the 'other' variables and so on), until that is done and > clearly demonstrated, the NEW value will not be accepted and just add > to the confusion that plagues the baby jyotishi! > > Those who have already found their 'sweet' spot, and are comfortable > and finding their contributions useful would continue to be in the > zone they are already in, with years of hard work and examinations. > > Hope the air is cleared by my explanation :-) > > RR > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Sir, > > Issues concerning aynamsha(JH,Gorvani and Lahiri etc) along with > moon parallox are difficult to be argued,though they have some > scietific significance.when we work our charts it is safe and prudent > also dependent on majority approach and some univarsality like lahiti > ayanamsha.Mostly results are conssitent.JH provides some interesting > approach in calculations and has some options.I like to rechec with > data with JH7.0 after depending through lahiri ayanamsha only. > > moon parallax position though in theory sisgnifies imapact .In > reality it's impact particularly in dasas is difficult to pin > pointed.For consistency we may reconcile on our own set of mind and > continue our work.it is not that these issues make astrology wrong > and wrong charts.why do we belie our efforts and also the very sastra > worked on observations and movement of jyotish.Even phalit jyotisha > less of ganit proved it > > s value and importance > > krishnan > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > Tarun, > > > > Does Goravani still support parallax-corrected position of moon? Do > > you use the geotopical (drig -- sort of) parallax corrected moon or > > geocentric moon. > > > > Also I believe you use 365 day year, right? > > > > > > RR > > , "Tarun Chopra" > > <occultwizard.tarun@> wrote: > > > > > > I use Goravani astrology software for calculatation of charts > > > www.goravani.com > > > > > > Tarun Chopra > > > > > > On 4/19/06, rishi shukla <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tarunji, > > > > Thanks for your response. There are two issues here, > > > > 1) That you are getting consistent results in > > > > horscopes using this ayanamsha, that states your > > > > personal experience and good for you. > > > > 2) The values you are discussing, now the date 1 Jan, > > > > 1155, I assume is a Julian date and not based on > > > > Gregorian calender. Secondly, you are assuming a > > > > linear progression of the ayanamsha with a value of > > > > 50.279 seconds since the inception of ayanamsha. > > > > Thirdly, the values in degrees, minutes and > > > > seconds...are you using swiss ephemeris using decimal > > > > places or are you using a particular software for it. > > > > An ayanamsha cannot merely begin on a particular date > > > > if a particular software displays a perfect match. > > > > Would like to know more of these points,thanks > > > > > > > > regards > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > --- Tarun Chopra <occultwizard.tarun@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Rishi > > > > > > > > > > ok consider the today's date as the starting point > > > > > so the two zodiacs are > > > > > similar today if we assume this. Now calculate any > > > > > chart of century say date > > > > > 01-01-1800 or 01-01-1900 you will get the ayanamsha > > > > > value 00-00-00 which is > > > > > same as tropical one, so there will be no difference > > > > > between tropical or > > > > > sidereal zodiac. Now we have to find a year a long > > > > > back when the two zodiacs > > > > > were similar, lahiri gave the date 22/03/0285 check > > > > > at that time does both > > > > > zodiacs were similar see the difference in planetary > > > > > position check with all > > > > > others ayanamsha with their starting date you will > > > > > not find the similar > > > > > planetary position. Now if you try with my ayanamsha > > > > > you will find exact not > > > > > even a second difference. > > > > > > > > > > Ok do it differently now calculate the charts from > > > > > Tarun Chopra Ayanamsha > > > > > and when you get any event check what dasha is going > > > > > on at that time. You > > > > > will find that on that day only the dasha has > > > > > changed there will be so > > > > > perfect that event hour will also match now this > > > > > never happens with any > > > > > other ayanamsha. > > > > > > > > > > Don't follow any ayanamsha research on it you will > > > > > find that Tarun Chopra > > > > > Ayanamsha goes too perfect in timing of the events > > > > > and if you study the > > > > > horoscopes you will find the life will reflect from > > > > > Tarun Chopra Ayanamsha > > > > > > > > > > and you know lots of people who are good at > > > > > astrology has tried my ayanamsha > > > > > and they are getting perfect results which they did > > > > > not got from any other > > > > > ayanamsha. > > > > > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > > > > > Tarun Chopra > > > > > www.occultwizard.com > > > > > > > > > > Join for right astrology and right horoscope > > > > > divinelight/ > > > > > > > > > > On 4/19/06, rishi shukla <rishi_2000in@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tarunji, > > > > > > It shall be interesting to know why is your > > > > > ayanamsha > > > > > > correct. I have gone through the web pages on yuor > > > > > > site, you basically say that the coinciding point > > > > > of > > > > > > sayana planets and the nirayana should be the > > > > > same. > > > > > > Why then not start from today, why from jan 1, > > > > > 1100 or > > > > > > whatever date you have suggested. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Tarun Chopra <occultwizard.tarun@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrology is based on Sidereal Zodiac and > > > > > > > sidereal zodiac basic > > > > > > > foundation is Ayanamsha if the Ayanamsha is not > > > > > > > correct then the Horoscope > > > > > > > is also not correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you still using wrong Ayanamsha to calculate > > > > > the > > > > > > > horoscopes? To get the > > > > > > > right Horoscope and to get the right results > > > > > from > > > > > > > Astrology, you are welcome > > > > > > > to join this Group of Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tarun Chopra > > > > > > > www.occultwizard.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not interested in joining the group > > > > > just > > > > > > > ignore this invitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/19/06, jyotish <jyotish.bh@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Rishi > > > > > > > > You are correct. > > > > > > > > WE need to evolve ayanamsha that is > > > > > compatible > > > > > > > to different S/W today > > > > > > > > available. > > > > > > > > Lahiri, Raman, are being used by almost all > > > > > > > including JH, Kundli... > > > > > > > > JH 7.0 gives option of different Ayanamsha > > > > > and > > > > > > > these results are quite > > > > > > > > close to each other. > > > > > > > > One can't appreciate other Ayanamsha if the > > > > > same > > > > > > > does not fit into. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Rps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > rishi_2000in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:05 AM > > > > > > > > Re: Bhava Charts Vs Rashi > > > > > charts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pratap, > > > > > > > > Ayanamsha has been a contentious issue > > > > > amongst > > > > > > > most learned of the > > > > > > > > astrologers too.Mostly , the ayanamsha named > > > > > as > > > > > > > Chitrapaksha or > > > > > > > > Lahiri ayanamsha is followed which was > > > > > approved > > > > > > > by the Indian > > > > > > > > Government as a part of Rashtriya Panchang. > > > > > > > There are several other > > > > > > > > ayanamshas too including the Raman ayanamsha > > > > > > > quite commonly used. > > > > > > > > Most of these are within plus minus 3 > > > > > degress of > > > > > > > the Lahiri value. > > > > > > > > Tarun Chopra claims an ayanamsa 12 degrees > > > > > away > > > > > > > from Lahiri. > > > > > > > > It is again a personal experience of his. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > Pratap > > > > > > > Kaneria > > > > > > > > <pkaneria@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am also a student following your > > > > > > > discussions about bhav all > > > > > > > > day. If you allow me to pose a new > > > > > question... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come across just recently a new > > > > > > > ayamansa proposed by > > > > > > > > Tarun Chopra who claims with some proof that > > > > > his > > > > > > > ayamansa is most > > > > > > > > accurate compared to the one's in use in > > > > > present > > > > > > > time. Everyone > > > > > > > > knows, that accurate predictions depends on > > > > > > > precise horoscope and > > > > > > > > dasa calculations. If you investigate, you > > > > > will > > > > > > > find that Chopra's > > > > > > > > ayamansa produces significantly different > > > > > charts > > > > > > > and dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone on this list investigated > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > Chopra's proposal ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pratap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rishi_2000in <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, I digressed, I am glad that > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > speaks from his > > > > > > > > experiences. > > > > > > > > > Your reply about spherical trigonometry > > > > > made > > > > > > > me look at another > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > which has been there in the back of my > > > > > mind. > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? 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