-> Surya - liberation from karma... - To Shad

[Guest guest]

Dear Shad,

 

That was a very comprehensive set of answers and have

satisfied some of my random questions ... thank you

very much !!

 

I think I am tending to agree with what you have said

...

 

Just one clarification remains ... I didnt mean to say

that liberation cannot be attained by other forms of

yoga .. I rather intended to say that both bhakt's and

gyanis cannot destroy their own karma (unless grace is

bestowed to them by the god) however a yogi after

sufficient advancement is able to destory his own

karma ...

 

Please keep enlightening us with your valuable inputs

...

 

Surya.

 

 

--- Shad <waterpowers wrote:

 

> Dear Surya,

>

> allow me to try to answer your questions.

>

> > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier

> mails) ..

> > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on

> to

> > make silly vows while lamenting for his son

> Abhimanu's

> > death?

>

> Self-realization does not turn a human being into

> some emotionless

> robot.

> Every father loves his son and will mourn if he

> loses him. A devotee

> of the Lord is no feeling-less being, who due to

> self-realization

> does not feel emotions or compassion anymore.

>

> > Why could he not realise that the death of

> Abhimanu was his own

> karma and he should > not nurse a grudge?

>

> That he mourned about the death of his son does not

> mean he had no

> knowledge on karma and life after death. Sri

> Ramachandra Bhagawan

> Himself mourned about His wife Sita! Does that mean

> that God Himself

> was under illusion, showing feelings for His beloved

> fellows?

>

> > Why was it that Krishna did not protectAbhimanu

> becasue he was

> under the

> > protection of the lord?

>

> All this story about the pandavas was a Krishna

> leela. None of the

> pandavas was born with karma! They all had descended

> from the

> spiritual world to participate in Krishna's leela,

> to give us fallen

> souls an example for life and the chance to do

> spiritual

> advancement.

>

> Abhimanyu died a glorious death of a kshatrya while

> fighting! He

> fought against the best of the best, and several

> opponents in one

> time! Those single princes that fought against

> Abhimanyu were able

> to kill entire troops with their only hands! But to

> fight Abhimanyu,

> who actually still was a kid, they had to do the

> greatest cowardice

> a kshatrya could do. They attacked him together,

> chopped off his

> hand, by a mean trick, and when he still could fight

> on with his

> left hand, they killed him cowardly and regardless!

>

> This story shows us that he could be never be

> conquered, and that a

> devotee of the Lord can make miracles, which even

> centuries after

> people still speak about.

> Abhimanyu wasn't afraid of death, and wanted to show

> that he was an

> honorable kshatrya and devotee of the Lord. He had

> never lost the

> protection of the Lord!

>

> >The issue is that Krishna himself came down to

> clean

> >te earth of the power hungry Kshatriya race .. it

> >included his own dynasty .. and by the time Krishna

> >left the planet there were only feeble kings left

> on

> >the planet ...

>

> This has nothing to do with His dynasty. He came to

> establish

> religion, to protect the people and His devotees and

> free them from

> unscrupulous rulers

>

> God, no matter in which form He incarnates, always

> does this to the

> benefit of all humanity, so we receive a chance to

> liberate

> ourselves from this material world of suffering.

>

> > The issue then is not that God will put u above

> karma if you go to

> his protection .. the

> > issue is if you have firm faith in him he will

> take help you sail

> through ur karma and

> > eventually take u higher !

>

> If we surrender to God, with faith, He will take

> away all the karma

> from us, which

> might be in our way of spiritual advancement. He

> will guide and

> protect us, so we will not get off that path, no

> matter what comes.

> This might take one lifetime, or several, God

> doesn't forget what we

> did on our spiritual path. We have to walk that path

> all by

> ourselves, but if we are honest and sincere, He will

> bless us so we

> will be able to go for it.

> This is His protection, he promises in the Geeta,

> that His devotee

> will never fall, also once reaching the goal, His

> abode, we will

> never fall back into this material existence.

> Only by God's mercy and the mercy of guru one is

> able to reach this

> goal. Even a mystic yogi can only by the mercy of

> the supersoul,

> paramatma, reach the spiritual goal, no other way.

>

> > According to yoga, neither a jnani nor a bhakt can

> > surpass karma .. however a yogi can .. and a yogi

> is

> > one who has renounced attachment (not possession)

> ...

>

> > Just sharing

>

> I think you misunderstood something here – in none

> of the vedic

> scriptures I know, may it be Siddhanta, Vedanta,

> siva purana or

> whatsoever, it says that with jnana yoga or bhakti

> yoga one cannot

> reach the spiritual goal, liberation, etc. and that

> this goal can

> only achieved by yoga. What anyway do you mean with

> merely `yoga'?

> Do you think about ashtanga yoga? Yoga merely is a

> process, somebody

> who practices jnana yoga, also can be called a yogi,

> or for the

> bhakta, he is a bhakti yogi. Krishna in Bhagvat

> Geeta tells the

> processes with which the spiritual abode can be

> reached, and He for

> good reasons recommends bhakti yoga first, and then

> also jnana yoga –

> which you try to put down here.

> The following of a process does not determine alone

> if one will

> reach the spiritual abode, it is our consciousness

> which in the end

> counts. All the processes are meant to lift up our

> consciousness, so

> we can reach the spiritual goal.

>

> > and a yogi is one who has renounced attachment

> (not possession) ...

>

> A jnana yogi or bhakti yogi who renounces material

> attachments is a

> real yogi, as Krishna states in the Bhagvat Geeta,

> which has nothing

> to do with these two processes jnana or bhakti yoga,

> but things here

> are about the consciousness, detachment from

> material desires, which

> is the goal of any yoga and kind of yogi.

>

> Kind regards,

> Shad

>

>

>

> , surya

> vishnubhotla

> <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > Shad,

> >

> > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier

> mails) ..

> > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on

> to

> > make silly vows while lamenting for his son

> Abhimanu's

> > death? Why could he not realise that the death of

> > Abhimanu was his own karma and he should not nurse

> a

> > grudge? Why was it that Krishna did not protect

> > Abhimanu becasue he was under the protection of

> the

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Surya ji,

 

thank you for your kind words. Just my humble input.

Thanks for the discussion on Mahabharata!

Such a discussion is a remedy for the soul. It is said in shastras

when one meditates, remembers or discusses the stories from

Mahabharata, Ramayana, the glorious leelas of Siva, Ganesh, Krishna,

the Pandavas and other sadhus and rishis, it will remove all

misfortunes in life. It is very auspicious, both material and

spiritual!

 

Kind regards,

Shad

 

 

, surya vishnubhotla

<surya_prakashv> wrote:

> Dear Shad,

>

> That was a very comprehensive set of answers and have

> satisfied some of my random questions ... thank you

> very much !!

>

> I think I am tending to agree with what you have said

> ..

>

> Just one clarification remains ... I didnt mean to say

> that liberation cannot be attained by other forms of

> yoga .. I rather intended to say that both bhakt's and

> gyanis cannot destroy their own karma (unless grace is

> bestowed to them by the god) however a yogi after

> sufficient advancement is able to destory his own

> karma ...

>

> Please keep enlightening us with your valuable inputs

> ..

>

> Surya.

>

>

> --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote:

>

> > Dear Surya,

> >

> > allow me to try to answer your questions.

> >

> > > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier

> > mails) ..

> > > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on

> > to

> > > make silly vows while lamenting for his son

> > Abhimanu's

> > > death?

> >

> > Self-realization does not turn a human being into

> > some emotionless

> > robot.

> > Every father loves his son and will mourn if he

> > loses him. A devotee

> > of the Lord is no feeling-less being, who due to

> > self-realization

> > does not feel emotions or compassion anymore.

> >

> > > Why could he not realise that the death of

> > Abhimanu was his own

> > karma and he should > not nurse a grudge?

> >

> > That he mourned about the death of his son does not

> > mean he had no

> > knowledge on karma and life after death. Sri

> > Ramachandra Bhagawan

> > Himself mourned about His wife Sita! Does that mean

> > that God Himself

> > was under illusion, showing feelings for His beloved

> > fellows?

> >

> > > Why was it that Krishna did not protectAbhimanu

> > becasue he was

> > under the

> > > protection of the lord?

> >

> > All this story about the pandavas was a Krishna

> > leela. None of the

> > pandavas was born with karma! They all had descended

> > from the

> > spiritual world to participate in Krishna's leela,

> > to give us fallen

> > souls an example for life and the chance to do

> > spiritual

> > advancement.

> >

> > Abhimanyu died a glorious death of a kshatrya while

> > fighting! He

> > fought against the best of the best, and several

> > opponents in one

> > time! Those single princes that fought against

> > Abhimanyu were able

> > to kill entire troops with their only hands! But to

> > fight Abhimanyu,

> > who actually still was a kid, they had to do the

> > greatest cowardice

> > a kshatrya could do. They attacked him together,

> > chopped off his

> > hand, by a mean trick, and when he still could fight

> > on with his

> > left hand, they killed him cowardly and regardless!

> >

> > This story shows us that he could be never be

> > conquered, and that a

> > devotee of the Lord can make miracles, which even

> > centuries after

> > people still speak about.

> > Abhimanyu wasn't afraid of death, and wanted to show

> > that he was an

> > honorable kshatrya and devotee of the Lord. He had

> > never lost the

> > protection of the Lord!

> >

> > >The issue is that Krishna himself came down to

> > clean

> > >te earth of the power hungry Kshatriya race .. it

> > >included his own dynasty .. and by the time Krishna

> > >left the planet there were only feeble kings left

> > on

> > >the planet ...

> >

> > This has nothing to do with His dynasty. He came to

> > establish

> > religion, to protect the people and His devotees and

> > free them from

> > unscrupulous rulers

> >

> > God, no matter in which form He incarnates, always

> > does this to the

> > benefit of all humanity, so we receive a chance to

> > liberate

> > ourselves from this material world of suffering.

> >

> > > The issue then is not that God will put u above

> > karma if you go to

> > his protection .. the

> > > issue is if you have firm faith in him he will

> > take help you sail

> > through ur karma and

> > > eventually take u higher !

> >

> > If we surrender to God, with faith, He will take

> > away all the karma

> > from us, which

> > might be in our way of spiritual advancement. He

> > will guide and

> > protect us, so we will not get off that path, no

> > matter what comes.

> > This might take one lifetime, or several, God

> > doesn't forget what we

> > did on our spiritual path. We have to walk that path

> > all by

> > ourselves, but if we are honest and sincere, He will

> > bless us so we

> > will be able to go for it.

> > This is His protection, he promises in the Geeta,

> > that His devotee

> > will never fall, also once reaching the goal, His

> > abode, we will

> > never fall back into this material existence.

> > Only by God's mercy and the mercy of guru one is

> > able to reach this

> > goal. Even a mystic yogi can only by the mercy of

> > the supersoul,

> > paramatma, reach the spiritual goal, no other way.

> >

> > > According to yoga, neither a jnani nor a bhakt can

> > > surpass karma .. however a yogi can .. and a yogi

> > is

> > > one who has renounced attachment (not possession)

> > ...

> >

> > > Just sharing

> >

> > I think you misunderstood something here – in none

> > of the vedic

> > scriptures I know, may it be Siddhanta, Vedanta,

> > siva purana or

> > whatsoever, it says that with jnana yoga or bhakti

> > yoga one cannot

> > reach the spiritual goal, liberation, etc. and that

> > this goal can

> > only achieved by yoga. What anyway do you mean with

> > merely `yoga'?

> > Do you think about ashtanga yoga? Yoga merely is a

> > process, somebody

> > who practices jnana yoga, also can be called a yogi,

> > or for the

> > bhakta, he is a bhakti yogi. Krishna in Bhagvat

> > Geeta tells the

> > processes with which the spiritual abode can be

> > reached, and He for

> > good reasons recommends bhakti yoga first, and then

> > also jnana yoga –

> > which you try to put down here.

> > The following of a process does not determine alone

> > if one will

> > reach the spiritual abode, it is our consciousness

> > which in the end

> > counts. All the processes are meant to lift up our

> > consciousness, so

> > we can reach the spiritual goal.

> >

> > > and a yogi is one who has renounced attachment

> > (not possession) ...

> >

> > A jnana yogi or bhakti yogi who renounces material

> > attachments is a

> > real yogi, as Krishna states in the Bhagvat Geeta,

> > which has nothing

> > to do with these two processes jnana or bhakti yoga,

> > but things here

> > are about the consciousness, detachment from

> > material desires, which

> > is the goal of any yoga and kind of yogi.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> > Shad

> >

> >

> >

> > , surya

> > vishnubhotla

> > <surya_prakashv> wrote:

> > > Shad,

> > >

> > > My question is (I asked in one of my earlier

> > mails) ..

> > > how come Arjuna got Gita upadesa and yet went on

> > to

> > > make silly vows while lamenting for his son

> > Abhimanu's

> > > death? Why could he not realise that the death of

> > > Abhimanu was his own karma and he should not nurse

> > a

> > > grudge? Why was it that Krishna did not protect

> > > Abhimanu becasue he was under the protection of

> > the

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________

>

> Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

> http://messenger.