Guest guest Posted July 10, 2000 Report Share Posted July 10, 2000 Dear Das, I hope I am still d to your list and this goes through, though this may be my last email here before the bits and bytes rearrange themselves ;-) I appreciate your honesty in presenting your inner thoughts and what makes you tick. And for your willingness to see both sides of the binary story called "Drama of the human ego" :-) As far as restriction of jyotish knowledge and hinduism etc. is concerned (slow spread etc. referred to in one of the latter paras of your email below), I think it is always the Mountain that comes to Mahomet (Mohammad), although such is the Leela that Mahomet often tends to believe that he is acting out of free will. We shall leave it at that. Best of luck with your mission in life. MK >Das <> >gjlist >gjlist >[gjlist] The other side of my thoughts on Puri >Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:46:18 -0700 > > >Hi Manas, > >Your feelings are justified. I presented a pretty one sided view. > >After I wrote that, I visited some other aspiring Western Vaisnavas and >asked them what they think our Guru Varga, namely, the Gaudiya Math >Acaryas including Bhaktivedanta Swami, and the collective seniour >devotees present, including a number of men and woman in their middle >ages, having been devotees for 20 years or more, unanimously agrees that >our Gurus were against the policies of the Jaganath Puri Temple on the >same grounds you state. > >I was a bit taken back, having thought I heard a different approach >once, and somehow feeling it in myself a bit. > >I myself am able, by my karma, to be very easily speaking on behalf of >the Autocratic Theocratic view of Orthodox Hinduism. But oddly, for >myself, actually, I often cannot feel it myself. It's a dichotomy I live >out for reasons of my various karmas and conditionings. > >I personally am one of those who judges people solely by their >character. I was raised in a very multi-racial multi-cultural Oakland >California, in the era of Post Martin Luther King effects, and present >day with the Black Panthers, the SLA, and overall general Hippie >Activism in the 60's and 70's peace and love era. That's in me. > >I was in Berkeley with the Army National Guard fully bayonetted 6 rows >deep all the way down the main streets surrounding the University in >response to Vietnam and the Kent State killings by the National Guard. >In other words, if you know this era and area at all, it was the home of >the Hippies in those days, the stage of the rock and roll drug >revolution, anti-Vietnam activism, and other things which represented >revolution by a large part of the youth against American culture up to >that point, which contained more gross materialism, and great amounts of >White Superiority presence in America. In the early sixties, Martin >Luther King changed America through his very successful civil rights >movement on behalf of the African Americans and others. If you know the >era I grew up in, and where I grew up, you realize I was IMMERSED in >this consciousness in a very big way. > >I went to High School in a Catholic High School which was eavenly 1/3rd >Chicano, 1/3 African American, and 1/3 White. There were no fights in 4 >years. In the period of Oakland and California that I grew up in, at >least in this Catholic High School in one of the worst areas of poverty >and crime in Oakland, there was absolutely a mood of non-prejudice based >on race or culture. Everybody was treated equally. I had friends in all >categories. I "slept over" and was in rock bands with, went to parties >with, grew up with, African Americans, lots of them in close proximity, >and Chicanos equally. I know both of these cultures intimitely at least >as far as Oakland goes. > >I was deeply involved with Franciscan priests in High School. I was >going to the Seminary to become one. There was ABSOLUTELY a mood of >non-prejudice based on race. It wasn't even an issue. I grew up where we >all brothers and sisters, and mostly I was with people who would add >"we're ALL Gods children". That's absolutely Catholic, and definitely >Franciscan. > >That's how I was raised. That's how I am personally actually. > >I do however resort to only one last thought in favor of Puri's ways, >leaving aside all religious considerations, philosophical >considerations, etc., and say this: > >Enough already with disrupting indiginous cultures. Leave standing that >which remains if it be non-violent and it wants not to be invaded. > >I think these both apply to modern Puri. I know for sure that they have >fought off government and populous and international opinion battles >already in recent years. They clearly consistantly vote amongst >themselves to not change this policy. > >So I'm saying, let's learn from Tibet and other invaded places, that >some places, should just be left alone. > >On that grounds I think we could back off? That's like calling the >philosophical battle a non-issue. Then it just becomes something to >discuss in National Geographic, for Westerners or the whole world to >marvel over- "a strict religious practice which by seeming definition >defies it's own dictum as if blind to obvious reality". > >On the other hand, some might argue, that taking birth within their >restrictive definitions is somehow special. They might have some reason >to believe that. There probably is some sort of religious definition on >their end that's meaningful to them, and so then again it's really up to >us as to whether we're going to bother them constantly because one of >their beliefs rubs our intellect the wrong way. > >But the kind, socially conscious, and non-interferring me says "since >they ain't hurting us, why not just let them have it their way in their >place". > >Then, if someone of that mood comes forth in the world and speaks that >mood out, that too, what of it? It's something authentic from a certain >sub section of the Hindu population- it too is just an offering to the >reader, not something that is being demanded. > >So I'm for non-interference in other words. Especially when it comes to >still standing ancient cultures and beliefs. At least it's old and >interesting, provocative. I really doubt that anyone in the West is >going to ACTUALLY start to feel that they are less. I think pretty much >EVERYONE would see it the way Martin Luther King would see it. I think >even Gandhi fought against it. I think it's pretty obvious that the only >people that REALLY let if affect them is the priests or council in >control in Puri itself. > >I haven't ever met anyone who REALLY FULLY believed in those things who >lived at all in any part of the modern India or any other part of the >world. I've met those kind of believers only in the villages in India, >for what that's worth. > >So you see, I can see it both ways. Like I said, I just have some sort >of tendency to be able to repeat what sounds like Orthodox Hindu logic >or philosophy. Some of it I really believe, but some of it rubs me after >I write it, sometimes. > >This is because I'm in motion regarding realizations. Kindof at a high >speed these days. > >One more thing, the Brihat Parashara Hora Sastra says that the student >of Jyotish must be known to the teacher, yet we see all teachers we've >seen so far are teaching people they've never met through the internet, >books, software, lectures, etc. Obviously, Jyotish wouldn't spread if to >learn it you had to go to India, stay and get to know a teacher, and if >qualified in character, then trained manually. That would take time. Few >would do it. Then those who did could come back and teach those they >know, but this process would be slow, though it could happen. > >So, most of us are products of "breaking the rules". Interesting thought. > >My Guru taught "mercy before justice", meaning, that in this age of >Kali, in our line, Sri Caitanya and Lord Nityananda, gave out their >jewels to everyone equally, regardless of race or caste. Sri Caitanya >went along with Caste things in some places, not attempting to change >them, but he himself taught that it did not apply to Krishna Bhakti at >least. And he like the Gita and Bhagavatam, praised this as the Supreme >Yoga. So there too, He who lived in Puri, taught otherwise. > >Thanks for listening, > >Das Goravani > > > > > > >2852 Willamette St # 353 >Eugene OR USA 97405 > > or >Fax: 541-343-0344 > >"Goravani Jyotish" >Vedic/Hindu Astrology Software ______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2000 Report Share Posted July 13, 2000 To Swami Vittalananda Saraswati Pranams Maharaj Nice to hear from you about the changes of attitude in India. I would like to know if in your journeys in India you have heard certain rumors regarding a prophecy that says that the Russian devotees are coming to take Lord Jagannath to their country?. I heard that comment from a Russian devotee in London about 3 years ago and he told me that the pujaris at Puri are really concern about it and are very suspicious of western devotees and especially about Russian devotees. The prophecy says that lord Jagannath wants to go to Russia because of the loyal devotion in Russian devotees. Another devotee (English) commented "can you imagine, if Lord Jagannath wants to go to Russia, He will walk and His pujaris will not be able to stop Him, and it will be nice if He decides to do a tour of Europe as well". Everything is possible for the Lord, although we already have His mercy in the form of the Ratha Yatra festivals in several western countries, thanks to the spiritual inheritance left by Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Lord Jagannath, Subhadra and Baladev God bless you Natabara das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2000 Report Share Posted July 13, 2000 Very interesting Natabara Although there are are no visable legs on Lord Jagannath I'm he wouldn't have a problem with transportation to Russia. I don't care much for Vodka & cold weather so would not visit much.=] However I would like to see at the Ratha Yatra at Golden Gate Park San Francisco around August 6th? I understand the LA Venise Beach will not be happening. Something to the tune of "They could not get a Permit" I hear. Hmm... - <Natabara <gjlist > Thursday, July 13, 2000 7:17 AM [gjlist] The other side of my thoughts on Puri > To Swami Vittalananda Saraswati > > Pranams Maharaj > > Nice to hear from you about the changes of attitude in India. I would like > to know if in your journeys in India you have heard certain rumors regarding > a prophecy that says that the Russian devotees are coming to take Lord > Jagannath to their country?. I heard that comment from a Russian devotee in > London about 3 years ago and he told me that the pujaris at Puri are really > concern about it and are very suspicious of western devotees and especially > about Russian devotees. The prophecy says that lord Jagannath wants to go to > Russia because of the loyal devotion in Russian devotees. Another devotee > (English) commented "can you imagine, if Lord Jagannath wants to go to > Russia, He will walk and His pujaris will not be able to stop Him, and it > will be nice if He decides to do a tour of Europe as well". > > Everything is possible for the Lord, although we already have His mercy in > the form of the Ratha Yatra festivals in several western countries, thanks to > the spiritual inheritance left by Srila Prabhupada. > > All glories to Lord Jagannath, Subhadra and Baladev > > God bless you > > Natabara das > > > ------ > Your old buddies are not out of range anymore. Free search with > Military.com's Personnel Locator. > http://click./1/4158/1/_/913692/_/963500004/ > ------ > > > gjlist- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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