Thenkalai's & Lord's Acharya - Please stay away from Bhagavatha Apacharam (please read the complete message)

[Guest guest]

sri:

 

Dear Devotees: Please accept adiyEn's humble pranams.

Please stay away from Bhagavatha Apacharam (please read the complete message)

 

adiyEn is requesting all the devotees to stay away from falling into the

Trap of Bhagawatha Apacharam here.

 

Let others say anything they want, we should focus our energies on positive

kainkariyams and self-education and devotion.

 

It is indeed very very sad to read such things about the most revered Acharya

(Lord's Acharya). It is very painful to see others, spend so much time and

energy on

such negative mails. Its more painful to see ramanuja members fall into this

trap.

 

Manavala Mamunigal says in Upadesa Rattina Malai:-

 

Astikas are Great, and Nasitas are ok as well (As we know where they stand)

The most dangerous are the Astika Nastikas

 

As these Astika Nastikas will look like astikas and might take good following as

they

might talk well and lead others down the wrong path as well.

 

Lord is so great that he presents his devotees with all this information.

 

Anyone who is devotee of the Lord, will not spend time trying to put down Lord's

Acharya.

Lord has shown over and over again why Mamunigal is HIS Acharya.

For those with faith, LORD is always there and so is HIS Acharyan.

 

This is why Mamigal also said:

Munnor Mozhindha : Learn from the previos gen. Acharyas.

Murai Thappamal Kettu : With proper respects and attitude.

 

Pinnorndhu : Then Later On

Tham Madanai Pesadhe: Do not speak of your own. (Only reproduce what has

been passed down)

 

Those who speak of their own are prone to all mistakes, as we are humans and are

prone to

Human flaws and lack of understanding etc.

Those who start teching on their own become Murkarawar : Will be Murkha

(Foolish) )

 

The bigger damage here is they will lead the whole next gen to go the Wrong way.

 

So let us stick to the Message Given by Lord to Sri.

Lord, Narayana is the first Acharya. He revealed this true knowledge to

"Sri" (Maha Lakshmi), This Acharya revealed the true knowledge to

Vishvaksena (Commander in Cheif in Vaikhunta), followed by

Satagopa Muni (Nammazhwar), followed by

Nathamuni, Pundarikaksha, Ramamisra, Yamunucharya, Goshti Purna,

to Sri Ramanuja (Time in BhuLoka: 1017 to 1137 AD)

(All Acharyas coming in this lienage after this time are named with

suffixes/prefixes of Ramanuaja), they represent Bhagawath Ramanuja AS IS.

 

All these Acharyas passed down the knowledge as is, without any

adulteration to the original as Given by Lord Narayana to MahaLakshmi.

 

Such a lineage is virutally like a clean pipe, with many pipes together,

the water coming at the end of the pipe is exaclty the same as it went in.

 

The Problem:

If one branch of the pipe gets adulterated, the end result water at the

tap is also adulterated.

Perumal shows us, where NOT to look, if we are looking for Clean Water.

 

Let us focus on the clean pipes and clean water.

Let us try to keep the water clean so the Next Generation can get clean water.

 

Please let us focus our energies on positive learning,

 

====For clarification and listing out facts adiyEn will write this =====

If others want to call Bhagawath Ramanuja, Kurattazhwan, MudalaiAndan, Embar,

Bhattar, Nanjeer, Nampillai, VenkataNatathar, and even Mamunigal as Vadakalai

there is no Harm to the Acharyas, or to the Real Sampradayam, it is one way to

allow these great Acharyas works and words into our Vadakalai Brothers as well.

As they will take to it more only if they think it is theirs.

We should be very happy that more and more are accepting these great Vaishanva

Acharyas.

 

adiyEn feels let them feel Swami Venkatanathar and all the above Acharyas as

Vadakalai, but sooner or later they will follow these great Acharyas

as IS. and Not via a contaminated pipe.

(e.g: Swami Desikan Never performed a seperate ritual called Bharanyasam

Nor did he perform a seperate ritual for his Sishyas, today's practicing

Vadakalai population will get to this truth sooner or later, as and when Perumal

wants.

 

Re: Swami Desikan: adiyEn knows that in almost all temples Swami is honoured

and in Thenkalai families as well, as Swami is a Great Acharya.

It seems that certain people are more in tune with the Thiruman on Swami

Desikan, rather than Swami himself.

In Srirangam, after the Thenkalai idol was replaced with the Vadakali one

The temple clearly asked for the original idol to be back for the porappadu.

Swami Desikan Sannidhi priests and some local Swami Desikan followers decided

to keep the new Vadakalai Thiruman Desikan rather than get the original Swami

and get the porappadu.

Even today Srirangam Trustees want to get Swami Desikan for Porappadu (with the

Original Posture and Original ThirumaN), but there is stiff resistance from

local Desika Sampradaya followers. (as to the ThirumaN)

 

So the issue with Swami Desikan getting all the due honors, is the Shape of

Thiruman. (Not Swami Desikan Himself).

======================================================================

If all the temple conversions, sannidhi Thiruman conversions are halted,

and we freeze all the temples in the state that they are in today.

Almost all the local insecurities will go away between the groups.

 

But there have been announcements that X number of Temples will get converted

in the next 30 years by financial might, by leaders and forerunners. Such

statements cause insecurity.

 

adiyEn prays to the Lord to allow us all to keep the main focus on

receiving HIS grace and serving HIM without getting distracted.

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE ssaranam

 

 

At 03:57 PM 4/6/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>Just read this and this tells it all about what we

>really stand for. Ahobila Mutt scholars will take

>every chance to negate Thenkalais.

>

>I am Vadakalai by birth and i feel ashamed.

>===========================================

>Sat, 06 Apr 2002 17:28:47 +0530

>Anand K Karalapakkam <kgk

>Malolan Net <>

>Tanian of ManavALa MAmuni (Re:Podhu

>Thaniyans)

>

>SrI:

>SrImatE rAmAnujAya namaH

>SrImatE nigamAnta mahAdESikAya namaH

>

> Dear bhaktas,

>

> Thanks to SrI Madhavakannan for his wonderful series

> on PeriAzhvAr Thirumozhi.

>

> aDiyEn would like to say few things regarding the

>tanian

> dedicated to SrI ManavALa MAmunigaL :

>

>-------------

>There is also another thaniyan which is recited :(by

>the sishyas of

>thennAcharya sampradayam):

>

>Sri SailEsa dayA pAthram dhI bhakthyAdhi guNArNavam |

>yathIndhra pravaNam vandhE ramya jAmAthram munim ||

>

>I salute Sri ManavaaLa MaamunigaL, who has the

>blessings of

>Thiruvaaimozhip

>Pillai (ManavaaLa Maamuni¡¦s Aachaarya- Sri SailEsar)

>and who is an

>ocean of

>jnAnam (knowledge) and Bhakthi (devotion).

>

>It is known to one and all that the above thaniyan was

>submitted to

>the feet

>of Sri Manavala mamunigal by none other than Lord Sri

>Ranganatha.

>Namperumal

>wanted to hear tiruvoimozhi kalakshepam from Sri

>Manavala mamunigal.

>He

>conducted kaalakshepam of Thiruvaaym6ozhi starting on

>the paritaapi

>year

>31st day of avani sukla chaturdasi friday. It

>continued for 1 year and

>the

>sARRumuRai was on aani moolam. For this one year all

>the utsavams of

>namperumal were stopped. During the sARRumuRai,

>namperumal appeared as

>a 5

>year old archaka boy and recited this sloka in praise

>of Sri Manavala

>mamunigal.

>-------------

>

> This is the description as per ThennAchAryas, for

>whom

> MAmunigaL is a very important AchArya and very dear

>to

> their hearts.

>

> In SrIra~nga-SrI VivEchanam, SrI MadhurAntakam SwAmi,

>a

> stalwart of the past century has made some remarks on

>this

> issue.

>

> Swami cites YatIndra-pravaNa PrabhAvam, a

>thennAchArya

> treatise on the glories of MAmunigaL. Page number is

>given

> to be 117 (of the popular edition I guess). Regarding

>the boy who

> recited this tanian, the treatise states

>"azhagiyamaNavALa

> bhattarAna archakaruDaya kumArarAi aindu vayaduLLa

>ra~nganAyakan

> enRu thirunAmam uDaya siRu piLLai ..." ie. The small

>boy's name

> was Ra~nganAyakan, aged 5 yrs and was the son of

>AzhagiyamanavALa

> Bhattar - the archaka for PerumAL.

>

> What happened was that, the tanian to be dedicated Or

>infact a

> glorifying verse, was taught to the small boy and was

>made to

> perform the vinnappam to the goshTi. Recitation by

>this boy

> captured the hearts of sishyas and everyone started

>pouring out

> their anubhavams esp. that Lord Ranganatha Himself

>(due to

> similarity in the name of the boy, the occasion and

>circumstances

> etc) has made this vinnappam of this tanian to His

>AchArya, in

> the form of a small boy.

>

> Wonderful anubhavam indeed by them. There is nothing

>wrong in it.

> It glorifies one's own AchArya and the soulabhyam of

>PerumAL.

> But, in the post MAmunigaL period, these things are

>used for

> ulterior motives.

>

> MadhurAntakam SwAmi states that the SamASrayaNa

>AchArya is not

> mentioned in this tanian; But the "SrIsailEsa" (in

>connection

> with Thirumalai of Lord SrInivAsa) word connotes both

>of his

> kAlakshEpa AchAryas. ThiruvAimozhi PiLLai's name is

> SrIsailEsar. He taught ThiruvAimozhi with eeDu

>vyAkyAnam. Another

> SrIsailEsar is the SrI-BhAshya AchArya of MAmunigaL.

>It was

> Thirumalai-AzhvAn alias KiDAmbi Thirumalai Iyengar /

>PurushOttama

> DAsar, a disciple of Bramhatantra-Svatantra JIyar,

>the stalwart

> disciple of SwAmi DESikan. MAmunigaL is referred to

>have had the

> dayA of his Ubhaya-VEdAnta AchAryas, in the tanian.

>

> MadhurAntakam SwAmi also points out that MAmunigaL

>had a name

> called "thUppil kulamuDayAr dAsar" because of the

>above reason

> (connection with SwAmi DESikan, known as thUppul

>piLLai). SwAmi

> cites some source for the same which is

>interconnected with other

> texts/book which I don't have.

>

> All the thenkalai SrI VaishNavas do recite the tanian

>of

> SwAmi DESikan viz. "SrImAn VE~nkaTanAthAryaH ..."

>when they

> perform SrI-BhAshya kAlakshEpam - Because SwAmi

>DESikan is

> an Acharya for them in their SrI-BhAshya parampara.

>

> VAnamAmalai Mutt, as well as PrativAdi bhaya~nkaram

>paramparai

> of ThennAchAryas, recite the tanian of SrI KumAra

>VaradAchArya,

> the son of SwAmi DESikan, in their daily anushThAnam,

>due to their

> link with that AchArya in their parampara. SwAmi

>DESikan's tanian

> is also in their anusandhAnam.

>

> While MAmunigaL is not an AchArya for VaDakalai

>Guruparampara,

> SwAmi DESikan is certainly a pUrvAchArya for

>Thenkalai

> Guruparampara.

>------

>

> Though the following is not pertinent to the original

>posting

> by our SrI Madhavakannan, aDiyEn would like to make

>few comments :

>

> Fanatics glorify MAmunigaL to the fullest extent

>they can

> possibly imagine, not actually to exhibit their

>Acharya bhakti

> Or whatever one may call, but for their cheap

>satisfaction

> in their minds which say to them that they have well

>made their

> case to put down Swami DESikan / Vadakalai

>Sampradayam.

> Some alpa buddhi ! In essence they want to perform

> asahya-apachAram by trying to denounce SwAmi

>DESikan, a

> PUrvAchArya of VEdAnta reverred by MAmunigaL. But,

>they feel that

> it will be most pleasing to MAmunigaL !! Such

>fanatics don't

> know many other things about even MAmunigaL or his

>writings, Or

> rather does not want to dwell in it as well - But,

>like a tape

> recorder, always play the tanian episode to the

>audience, with

> the cheap mentality that everyone of Vadakalai

>SampradAyam should

> thus accept MAmunigaL as the Topmost AchArya of the

>world since

> Lord Himself has only one AchArya in him etc (by

>suitable

> prenentation in their words on the history) and

>rather make

> Vadakalais feel guilty that they don't have

>MAmunigaL as their

> AchArya etc etc - hardly makes any sense !

>

> Pseudo-Samarasa vAdigaL glorify MAmunigaL to the

>fullest extent

> possible, not actually to exhibit their own

>appreciation Or

> whatever one may call towards that Acharya, but to

>simply make a

> point that they are kith and kin to Thenkalais and

>are to be kept

> in the good books of theirs - thereby misleading

>many of both

> kalais.

>

> Lets be truthful and not be guided by such thoughts

>and behave

> in a matured manner. That will actually reduce the

>kalai conflict

> in aDiyEn's opinion.

>

> aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

> anantapadmanAbhan alias Anand.

>

>Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka

>Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya

>Nama:

>======================================

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Ramanujaye namaha

Dear Mukundan / Ramanuja Srivaishnavas

Adiyen would like to clarify one pAsuram of Thondaradipodi Alwar in

ThirumAlai, am writing with big heart that some one had insulted my Acharya

and this is the pAsuram most fit to him

ThirumAlai Pasuram #8

------------

verupodu samanar mundar vidiyil sAkiyargal ninpAl

Porupaniyagal pEsil povathe Noya Thagy

kuripenak Kadayu Magil Koodumel Thalay Ange

Arrupathe karumam Kanday Arangama Agarulane

---------------

 

explanation

-----------------------

veupodu- Those who cannot listen to Bhagavad vishayam

samanar- kShamanargal

mundar- Saivargal

vidy il- Bagavad samArayana Bagyam Illathavargal (Unfortunate people who

dont have chance to have Samasrayanam)

Saakiyargal- Bugghist

Poruppu Ariyanagal- Porruka Mudiyatha Vishayangaly (issues which cannot be

tolerated)

pEsil- Solluvar agil ( if they talk)

Aduve Noyagi - That nindaye ViyadiyAgy (let that Apacharam itself be great

disease)

Povathu- Mudinthu Povathu sirandhadhu (better let them have their end)

else

enaku- Bagavad dooshanam poratha enaku ( self, who can not tolerate such ill

treatment)

kurippu Adayum Agil - Tharunam vAykkumAgil ( If I get a chance)

Koodumel - Sakthyum iRRukkumAgil (If I have the valour)

Ange- Bhagavad Nindhy Seydha idathileye ( on that place where Bagavad

illtreatment took place)

Thalayi Arrupathe - To shave off his head

karumam kandAy- Seyya Thakka Kariyam

-------------------------

 

This one Alwar prays to SriRanganathan, I am also praying to Him who is in

our Ghosty (syshya of MMunigal) .

One can ask whether its Ok for pAsuram , can it be practiced, I wish to

quote from KoorathAlwan Vaibhavam ( I collected from Dr.V.V.Ramanujam book)

When KoorathAlwan lost his eys in the Kings court, due to NaloorAn, Ramanuja

got so angry and this pAsuram was the one he recited before namPerumAl, Also

came to know that Ramunaja did one Yagam to make the Saiva King

powerless(nAsam adya seyyum yagam) , The underline meaning was , if King

continues to be like that , he will do more Apcharam, we should think that

the Ramanuja's act was to favor the king only.

 

Coming back, I dont consider this Anand Karalapkkam swamy none other than

Samanar, Saakiyar, and also he is a nAlooran . So let me pray to

KoorathAlwan to have one more Sthavam for this xxx( I dont want to put him

in the Bhagavda list) which is the only way for him to attain moksha after

doing such Acharya nindanam.

 

(After finishing Varadharaja Sthavam swamy prayed for naloorAn's mookthi,

---- "nalooran thanaku mukthi nalginan vazhiye" , this got a seperate

reason..)

 

I dont consider this as an Bhagavada Apacharam as you know my stand already

and also one more verse of Sri Embar swamy flows across my mind..

"ellai enakethir ellai enakethir" when Embar was in praise of Swamy

Emberumanar.

 

Similarly I am proud of my Acharya and no reason why I should shy away when

some castigates my Acharya as "alpa budhhi".

 

Mukundan- I am also thinking that we should write to malolan-net moderators

to not to approve of any such kind in future .

 

I will come back on the Yadindra pranava prabhavam soon, ..

 

can some one suggest me can we reply jointly to that gentleman about where

we stand , not thru mailing list...

 

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

Gunaseelan Venkatachary

Ph:408 588 6672

[Guest guest]

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha

srImadh varavara munayE namaha

 

Dear Sri Mukundan,

 

I would just like to rephrase the explanation of the

upadEsarattinamAlai pAsuram as follows :-

 

Here "pinOrndhu" is very important word in the pAsuram. This means

than though you listen to all your ancestors words and learn them,

you are to do analysis and ascertain that it is nothing but truth.

The reason why Sri maNavALa mAmunigaL said this is clearly explained

in the history of swAmy emberumAnAr.

 

If swAmy emberumAnAr would have accepted the words of Sri

yAdavaprakAsar without analysing the accuracy of his teachings, great

gods, just think where will this Sri Vaishnavism be today. So it is

clear that one is allowed the freedom to analyse and accept the truth

rather than blindly following them.

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavathas,

It is really sad to see such persons in the world who

says that they are srivaishnavas

and not following the principles of being a

srivaishnavan. I consider the article

written by this person as 'Devil quoting Bible'

('Saathan Vedam Odduvathu pole').

He never examined himself ( Suya Parisodhanai) before

using the word 'Alpha Bhudi

' To refer an Acharyan. This shows the cheap mentality

of the people who want to

get publicity just by passing comments about great

people. I feel it is like writing

gossips in yellow magazine about famous personalities

by third rate publishers just

for the sake of writing something. I have no words to

describe the person as he is

not eligible even to be discussed like this, so his

article. Malonan net should feel

ashamed for publishing this kind of messages and i

suggest them not to entertain this

kind of messages in a group that is created for noble

purpose.( i hope the group is

created for noble purpose)

Dasan,

Thirumalai

--- Guna Venkat <guna_venkat wrote:

> Srimathe Ramanujaye namaha

> Dear Mukundan / Ramanuja Srivaishnavas

> Adiyen would like to clarify one pAsuram of

> Thondaradipodi Alwar in

> ThirumAlai, am writing with big heart that some one

> had insulted my Acharya

> and this is the pAsuram most fit to him

> ThirumAlai Pasuram #8

> ------------

> verupodu samanar mundar vidiyil sAkiyargal ninpAl

> Porupaniyagal pEsil povathe Noya Thagy

> kuripenak Kadayu Magil Koodumel Thalay Ange

> Arrupathe karumam Kanday Arangama Agarulane

> ---------------

>

> explanation

>

-----------------------

> veupodu- Those who cannot listen to Bhagavad

> vishayam

> samanar- kShamanargal

> mundar- Saivargal

> vidy il- Bagavad samArayana Bagyam Illathavargal

> (Unfortunate people who

> dont have chance to have Samasrayanam)

> Saakiyargal- Bugghist

> Poruppu Ariyanagal- Porruka Mudiyatha Vishayangaly

> (issues which cannot be

> tolerated)

> pEsil- Solluvar agil ( if they talk)

> Aduve Noyagi - That nindaye ViyadiyAgy (let that

> Apacharam itself be great

> disease)

> Povathu- Mudinthu Povathu sirandhadhu (better let

> them have their end)

> else

> enaku- Bagavad dooshanam poratha enaku ( self, who

> can not tolerate such ill

> treatment)

> kurippu Adayum Agil - Tharunam vAykkumAgil ( If I

> get a chance)

> Koodumel - Sakthyum iRRukkumAgil (If I have the

> valour)

> Ange- Bhagavad Nindhy Seydha idathileye ( on that

> place where Bagavad

> illtreatment took place)

> Thalayi Arrupathe - To shave off his head

> karumam kandAy- Seyya Thakka Kariyam

>

-------------------------

>

> This one Alwar prays to SriRanganathan, I am also

> praying to Him who is in

> our Ghosty (syshya of MMunigal) .

> One can ask whether its Ok for pAsuram , can it be

> practiced, I wish to

> quote from KoorathAlwan Vaibhavam ( I collected from

> Dr.V.V.Ramanujam book)

> When KoorathAlwan lost his eys in the Kings court,

> due to NaloorAn, Ramanuja

> got so angry and this pAsuram was the one he recited

> before namPerumAl, Also

> came to know that Ramunaja did one Yagam to make the

> Saiva King

> powerless(nAsam adya seyyum yagam) , The underline

> meaning was , if King

> continues to be like that , he will do more

> Apcharam, we should think that

> the Ramanuja's act was to favor the king only.

>

> Coming back, I dont consider this Anand Karalapkkam

> swamy none other than

> Samanar, Saakiyar, and also he is a nAlooran . So

> let me pray to

> KoorathAlwan to have one more Sthavam for this xxx(

> I dont want to put him

> in the Bhagavda list) which is the only way for him

> to attain moksha after

> doing such Acharya nindanam.

>

> (After finishing Varadharaja Sthavam swamy prayed

> for naloorAn's mookthi,

> ---- "nalooran thanaku mukthi nalginan vazhiye" ,

> this got a seperate

> reason..)

>

> I dont consider this as an Bhagavada Apacharam as

> you know my stand already

> and also one more verse of Sri Embar swamy flows

> across my mind..

> "ellai enakethir ellai enakethir" when Embar was in

> praise of Swamy

> Emberumanar.

>

> Similarly I am proud of my Acharya and no reason why

> I should shy away when

> some castigates my Acharya as "alpa budhhi".

>

> Mukundan- I am also thinking that we should write to

> malolan-net moderators

> to not to approve of any such kind in future .

>

> I will come back on the Yadindra pranava prabhavam

> soon, ..

>

> can some one suggest me can we reply jointly to that

> gentleman about where

> we stand , not thru mailing list...

>

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

> Gunaseelan Venkatachary

> Ph:408 588 6672

>

>

>

 

 

=====

Thirumalai Narayanan

 

Nalam Tharum Solai Naan Kandukonden NARAYANA Ennum Namam

 

 

 

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