Sex & Sadhna

[Guest guest]

Much is hidden about sex and sadhna. Tantra openly advocates sex in

sadhna but all other paths seem to be hiding from it. Any one who

talks/discusses about sex is taken as a lower soul

 

Is sex a hindrance in Sadhna ? Anyone induldging in moral and legal

sex (e.g.with wife), can be a saint ?

[Guest guest]

There are some misunderstandings considering TANTRA. Tantra is not

about sex. Yes there are some techniques that involve sexual contact

but these are not "must" in order to practice tantra. Tantra is the

mother of Yoga, yoga is the right hand path of tantra, the one that

doesnt include sexual practices. The left hand path, which nowadays

has been identified solely with tantra includes more extreme practices

such as the sexual ones. This has nothing to do with the neotantra,

which is an american invention and is based purely on techniques that

highligh the sexual pleasure.

 

There are 3 reasons why one can practice tantric sex:

1. In order to aquire children , in case of a problem.

2. For greater pleasure

3. For spiritual growth

 

Each of these techniques are different.

 

I can assure you one thing that if one chooses tantra for spiritual

growth, it is not fun! LOL! It is an extremely difficult technique

that requires years and years of practice, and self control. This

technique does not involve lust, it just involves the sexual energies

which we identify with the kundalini power. If you can use kundalini

externally and then channelize inwards throught he spine, you have

achieved your goal. This technique can be learned from books or from

people who know and be practiced from couples that are married. This

way sex becomes a helpful tool and not a hindrance to Sadhna.

 

There is much more to what I wrote though, and one should make a

detailed research into the matter before trying anything.

 

In fact many saints were married. Human, as a whole, has been created

with many different aspects, the sexual being one of them. It is one

of the most divine aspects and should be treated with respect and

admiration.

 

 

, tantra_rag <no_reply> wrote:

> Much is hidden about sex and sadhna. Tantra openly advocates sex in

> sadhna but all other paths seem to be hiding from it. Any one who

> talks/discusses about sex is taken as a lower soul

>

> Is sex a hindrance in Sadhna ? Anyone induldging in moral and

legal

> sex (e.g.with wife), can be a saint ?

[Guest guest]

Very good question indeed and it needs real discussion....let me

consult Mahamahim 1008 swami Ghasitanandji Maharaj and then i will

write on this surely....hope other sadhaka will also touch the subject

 

 

 

> , tantra_rag <no_reply> wrote:

> > Much is hidden about sex and sadhna. Tantra openly advocates sex in

[Guest guest]

friends

 

All the Gopikas who were having different types of bonds with Lord Krishna

became mad after the departure of Lord Krishna from Brindavanam. Not only Radha

who had the sexual relationship, but also Yasoda who nourished Lord Krishna as

mother became mad after His departure. Both Yasoda and Radha reached Goloka

because their intensity of love was equal. Therefore, one should love God by

cutting all the worldly bonds and must be prepared even to sacrifice the life

for the sake of the Lord like Prahlada.

 

Jesus told that he who does not leave wife, children, wealth and even life for

His sake is not His beloved disciple. This refers to any human being whether

male or female. The extent of sacrifice of these worldly bonds indirectly gives

a measure of the intensity of the bond with God. More you are attached to God,

more you will be detached from the world. Therefore, such form of bond with Lord

Krishna is not important but the intensity of love to Lord Krishna, which is

measured by the sacrifice of the world, is important.

 

Such form of bond is not the invariable path to the Lord. The other bonds are

also the alternative ways to reach the same goal. All the paths are parallel to

each other and it is a running race of different candidates. The speed in

running is important and not the path assigned to him. I am neither encouraging

nor discouraging the path because it is purely of personal taste. But the

success depends on the intensity and vigour in the love to the Lord.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

[Guest guest]

> om_agni_devi <no_reply> Ýãñáøå:

> There are some misunderstandings considering TANTRA. Tantra is not

==============

Very well said Agni devi. In fact, the Tantra which we see on

internet is not Tantra at all. Tantra is even older than our other

scriptures, and its misuse by lustful and avenging people, caused its

disappearance from the world. But I can see, the next revolution in

human progress towards spirituality, will be with Tantra.

 

The question has been raised because we in India have

developed a strange view about sadhaka and saints. Hundreds of years

have taken to change the psyche of common public that this world is

a Maya and anybody indulging in this is a sinner and anyone rejecting

it is a saint. That's why those who are doing long fastings are

treated as great souls, those who lie down on thorn beds, are

worshipped, those who torture their own bodies are taken as higher

souls. All these tortures and penances are against the laws of the

Nature and Bhagwan Krishana has clearly mentioned it in Gita that

anyone torturing his body in the name of fast or Hathha yoga is not a

real Yogi.

 

Similar is the fate of Sex. Sex is taken as a worldly lust

and anyone being away strictly from it is thought to be a saint,

whereas this is not the case.

 

Sex the second primordial desire of the Mother Nature after

Survival. Sexual Energy is just an octave lower than the divine

Kundalini Energy.

 

And as Agni devi wisely mentioned, Tantra does not deal

solely with the sex, but with the whole system, the entire Matrix of

the energies in the universe.

 

Each path may have some "Neti-Neti", somewhere, but Tantra is

the only path which has no "Denial" of any thing at any level.

Tantra accepts Universe as a whole Living organism, not rejects it as

Maya or illusion. Tantra deals with the Universe and its energies,

bravely and directly and finds the way out of this web of energies,

dancing on the single consciousness called ParamShiva.

 

Wastage and misuse of any energy is a hinderance in Sadhna,

so sex can not be singled out.

 

Krishna, Rama and most the great saints were married and

it gives a clear indication that moral sexual act is certainly not a

hinderance in Sadhna.

 

 

love and blessings

 

baba

 

I got hold of swami Ghasitanandji, y'day night and asked him

 

Me: Guruji have you left sexual life for spirituality

 

Guruji: No beta ! I have left nothing...I enjoy my life as well as I

enjoy the supreme bliss.

 

me: OK guruji, then you must be having big time intervals between

your physical enjoyments...tell me when did you last had sex ?

 

guruji : 1955

 

Me: That is really great guruji...such a long time you remained away

from such a forceful need...You are great.

 

guruji : Yes beta it is long spell... i last enjoyed sex at 1955 and

it is 2155 (hrs) now..... 2 hours is a long time !!!

[Guest guest]

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba>

wrote:

 

> Each path may have some "Neti-Neti", somewhere, but Tantra is

> the only path which has no "Denial" of any thing at any level.

> Tantra accepts Universe as a whole Living organism, not rejects it

as

> Maya or illusion. Tantra deals with the Universe and its energies,

> bravely and directly and finds the way out of this web of energies,

> dancing on the single consciousness called ParamShiva.

 

 

Exactly! Tantra is the absolute way of really taking part into the

creation and fulfilling the meaning of life which is to reach

perfection. It is the only "natural" way which follows the natural

flow of the universe and leads one to advancement without having to

fight with ones mind. The wisdom of the tantric aproach is that it has

huge understanding and realizes that the pairs of opposites are part

of the world of the 3 gunas. In reality there is no good and bad, no

wrong and right, no morality and immorality. This is what has been

misunderstood and left hand paths have been condemned as evil.

 

In my opinion, a soul that follows the natural spiritual evolution

will finally be taught tantra or will automatically start to practice

it without having been taught. I strongly believe that everything

which religion and thought-systems try to teach and preach, are stages

which have to be achieved through the evolution of the soul and not

through any kind of pressure and mental violence.

[Guest guest]

you mean to say Gopikas/Hanuman were taught tantra? If you propagate your

opinions, it will be danger to the community.

 

You should prove its authenticity from scriptures like Gita/bible etc.. In the

spiritual domain, word of Lord only rules. Assumptions or self thinking will not

work here. why Krishna only preached Gita? there were saints even having powers

also. but lord in human form only should preach divine knowledge.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

 

 

om_agni_devi <no_reply> wrote:

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba>

wrote:

 

> Each path may have some "Neti-Neti", somewhere, but Tantra is

>

[Guest guest]

, prakki surya <dattapr2000>

wrote:

> you mean to say Gopikas/Hanuman were taught tantra? If you propagate

>your opinions, it will be danger to the community.

 

 

Oh yes! Its always dangerous when the minds of people become free and

open, and the truth is unveiled. It is a great danger for the

established religions and the power that they hold, when they loose

the control of their devotees. They loose control and they loose the

money and everything that depends on the long believed dogmas. This

way they collapse and ceaze to exist. The sun of the christian

religion is already setting and many more will follow. It is exciting

to live in an era when many big changes are happening and are about to

happen. Yes, knowledge, rational arguments and wisdom are dangerous.

I have faith in the new generation and in the changes they are

bringing forth.

 

Be afraid, be very afraid.... ) *laughs*

[Guest guest]

oh agni devi!

 

you misunderstood me. You are most welcome regarding any constructive, logical

criticisms, doubts to any extent. You are always welcome to attack the logic of

the concepts being presented. You have not answered my question. First of all,

you should understand, Swamiji is not propagating religious knowledge. He is

propagating spiritual knowledge which is above religion.

 

Religion is like a medium of instruction and spirituality is the curriculum. One

can get doctorate degree through any medium and a doctorate will be respected by

all over the world equally. Thus we should pursue to reach higher levels in

spirituality in our own religion. Nobody need not change his religion.

 

Change of religion is moving horizontally and moving to higher classes in

spiritual curriculum is moving vertically, which is only called growth.

Spirituality is beyond religion. Infact any true divine preacher never confined

to any one particular religion, caste, creed etc, because all require God.

 

the entire divine knowledge preached by Swamiji is based on logic and human

perceptions only along with quotations from scriptures. your arugument in my

Satguru's case is completely baseless.

 

you can experience for yourself by going through a little bit of knowledge.

don't be under the impression that by going through you are becoming disciple.

Our mission is propagating divine knowledge so that interested people can get

the true knowledge. But your comment rather i can understand is a general

without reference to anybody.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

om_agni_devi <no_reply> wrote:

, prakki surya <dattapr2000>

wrote:

> you mean to say Gopikas/Hanuman were taught tantra? If you propagate

>your opinions, it will be danger to the community.

 

 

Oh yes! Its always dangerous when the minds of people become free and

open, and the truth is unveiled.

[Guest guest]

This topic is a much maligned and avoided topic. And yet, many many

sadhaks get stuck at this point and struggle to make sense of the

relationship between the two. They struggle with feelings which are

natural and normal on one hand, but are condemned by culture,

creating a space for much guilt and self-recrimination.

 

To a certain extent this malady is because the culture seems to have

a hypocritical approach to sexuality. On one hand the culture has

produced Kamasutra by a no one else than a respected sage, statues of

sexual nature adorn almost every temple, and on another hand in some

parts of the culture people are condemned if they even look at the

other sex. All puja rituals are based on Tantric principles and

practices, while at the same time the Tantric path is condemned and

looked down upon.

 

In general people are afraid of the unknown, and fear is fueled by

ongoing and perpetuated ignorance. While once upon a time there was a

purpose behind teaching concepts in stages as people move through

various layers of consciousness, in todays information age, that

practice is no longer necessary. Each individual today is asked to be

ready to take responsibility for their sadhna, their progress.

 

There was a time, when the powerful and potent knowledge of both

Upanishads and Tantra, were considered "dangerous" and needed to be

taught by a Guru. The "danger" of Upanishadic knowledge lay in the

volatile nature of the combination of the ego "i" with the

thought "Aham Brahmasmi". Tantra in its essense deals with nothing

but the energy field of matter. All matter. All creation, destruction

and preservation occurs at the energy level, no matter how our

consciousness perceives it. This too is a dangerous weapon in the

hands of the ego.

 

I ask sadhaks to share what kinds of obstacles has this created, and

how did you overcome it?

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

[Guest guest]

, prakki surya <dattapr2000> wrote:

> you mean to say Gopikas/Hanuman were taught tantra? If you propagate

your opinions, it will be danger to the community.

 

 

Bhakti and Divine love are a part of Tantra...and so is Gyana and

Yoga...Tantra envelopes all...all that exists.

 

It is not my opinon..mind it. Truth is nobody's opinion. It

remains a truth even if we all reject it.

 

Pothi Pad Pad Jag Mua...Gyani Bhaya na koye

Dhai akhar prem ke....pade so pundit hoye!

(Kabir)

 

"Reading hundreds of scriptures will not make you a Gyani

if you can read 2 and half words of "LOVE"...you are a real gyani

 

With my love, blessings and good wishes

 

baba

[Guest guest]

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba>

wrote:

 

Do you mean to say Discipline and Sacrifice are not at all required

in Saadhnaa ?

[Guest guest]

, tantra_rag <no_reply> wrote:

> , "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba>

> wrote:

>

> Do you mean to say Discipline and Sacrifice are not at all required

> in Saadhnaa ?

 

NO i never meant that. Discipline and sacrifice are integral

part of any sadhna...but why make sex as your first victim of

discipline and sacrifice, thus depriving your partener of the

essential natural need.

 

There are many other lower-vrittis such as anger, lust,

infatuation, ungratefulness etc which need to be discilined.

 

False Ahankar, blaming others, cheating others and diarrhoea of the

tongue are the first things to be sacrificed.

 

when these lower-vrittis are discipline, sex will automatically be

under control......

 

 

with love and blessings

 

baba

[Guest guest]

Namaste _/\_ all.

 

I came across this interesting excerpt about Sri Adi Shankaracarya from:

 

http://www.indiastar.com/kavita.htm

 

Even an ascetic like Shankara had to come to terms with erotic love.

In one of the legends, he engages in a philosophical debate with

the Vedic ritualist and householder Mandan Misra, whose wife

challenges him with questions about erotic arts and sciences.

 

Forced to admit that true wisdom must include an understanding of all

aspects of life, he asks to be excused from the debate for a month in

order to master the theory and practice of love.

 

Shankara enters the body of Amaru, identified in the legend as a king

of Kahmir, who had died on a hunting expedition in the forest. And so

King Amaru of Kashmir appeared to come back to life, appeared to

return to his palace, and appeared to indulge in love games and erotic

experiments with his lovely wives and mistresses. He played dice with

them setting sexual favours as the stakes, drank wine with them,

kissed and caressed them with what appeared to be exuberance (15)."

 

Shankara who was supposed to have been "eternally immersed in the joy

of the absolute," appeared to experience the transient joys of carnal

love. He is said to have composed a poetic work in the name of Amaru

displaying his mastery of the sexual sentiments and erotic arts

--Amaru sataka. The holy man then abandoned the body of the king and

returned to win his debate with Mandan Misra.

 

As Lee Siegel suggests, the poems are in no way ascetic, yet they

might be in some sense, religious (16). While it was the goal of the

sanyasis, inspired by the teachings of saints like Shankara, to

experience the sacred through asceticism, it was the goal of rasikas,

inspired by the words of poets like Amaru, to experience the sacred

through aestheticism.

 

Lee Siegel points out: Both Sankara and Amaru were worshippers of

Siva, and in the vast mythology of that god -- Siva is the erotic

ascetic, fire and water -- there is implicit fusion of the passionate

and renunciatory impulses. At once ferocious and gentle, Destroyer and

Creator, slayer of demons and lover of the goddess, Siva is an

exemplar of power: sexual power, martial power, and religious power,

the power of yoga (17)."

 

 

, tantra_rag <no_reply> wrote:

>

> Much is hidden about sex and sadhna. Tantra openly advocates sex in

> sadhna but all other paths seem to be hiding from it. Any one who

> talks/discusses about sex is taken as a lower soul

>

> Is sex a hindrance in Sadhna ? Anyone induldging in moral and legal

> sex (e.g.with wife), can be a saint ?

>

[Guest guest]

dear friend

 

Adi sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. This article is really downgrading

the divine personality, like attaching desire for lust to Lord. It is very

pitiable understanding of Lord. As per Veda 'na medhaya', 'naisha tarkena',

which means human intelligence cannot understand the Lord. Hence Lord Himself

reveals the divine secrets to His closest devotees.

 

That is why any amount intelligent discussions, prayers by words and meditation

by mind cannot even touch the Lord. As per Veda 'Dhanena tyagenaike amritatva

manasu'. Hence only by sacrifice one can reach Lord. Until that is imbibed

nobody can ever experience the bliss of Lord even momentarily also.

 

By meditation, prayers and intelligent discussions, one can get temporary mental

peace that can be disturbed by any worldly act.

 

Above all human beings interpret Lord according to their whims and fancies due

to unawareness. Any interpretation downgrading the divine personality of Lord

can be cut without any hesitation because the actual divine secret is not known

and hence we with our limited intelligence trying to interpret.

 

human beings are bound by the tri gunas (sattva, rajas & tamas) and Lord is the

creator of the tri gunas. He exhibits trigunas to test the devotees faith. Like

Krishna also involved in Raasakeli with Gopikas. Is it because of His lust?

 

With true divine knowledge preached by Lord in human form only we can better

understand Him.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

pyari_h <no_reply> wrote:

Namaste _/\_ all.

 

I came across this interesting excerpt about Sri Adi Shankaracarya from:

 

http://www.indiastar.com/kavita.htm

 

Even an ascetic like Shankara had to come to terms with erotic love.

In one of the legends, he engages in a philosophical debate with

[Guest guest]

THE STORY AS IT IS :

 

During Adi Shakaracharya's time, India was full of people who were

entangled in words. It was impossible to communicate with their

hearts. He used logic to remove the barriers from human mind, so that

the mirror-like consciousness will get exposed. He was forced to argue

because he knew that no communication is possible before argument. So

he argued and argued till the extreme; where all the arguments seemed

futile and then the communion was possible. That is why most of the

debaters became his disciples after the debate. He used logic not to

defeat but to awaken.Shankaracharya is not a debater. He is a man of

silence.

 

It happened in life of Shankaracharya. He went to Mandala - a city

where Mandan Mishra lived. Mandan Mishra was a respected person. He

was elder than Shankaracharya and had many disciples. The city was

known by his name. Shankaracharya entered the city and asked the

woman's who were filling water on the wells - 'Where is house of

Mandan Mishra?' The woman's laughed and replied - 'Go in the city and

you yourself will know - even the breeze knows who is Mandan.'

Shankaracharya went to Mandan's house and said, 'I have come here to

debate with you - I want to debate on truth !' Mandan welcomed him,

there was no enmity - I was a friendly affair. The debate began.

Mandan said, 'You are young and I am elder than you so the debate is

not balanced, I have more experience than you. So you decide who will

be the judge.' Shankaracharya thought a lot but he was unable to find

a suitable judge, a judge with the caliber of Mandan. He decided to

make Mandan's wife - her name was Bharati- the judge. The debate was a

friendly one, debate for the truth, so Mandan's wife was made the

judge. When the debate was over, Bharati declared that Shankaracharya

has defeated Mandan. But she said to Shankaracharya, 'You have

defeated Mandan, but only half, because I am wife of Mandan and part

of Mandan, so you will have to debate with me.' Shankaracharya

accepted it and agreed to debate with her. Bharati was also a unique

woman, she didn't asked questions related to truth or god, she knew

Shankaracharya was an unmarried young man so she asked him questions

related to married life and sexuality. Shankaracharya was puzzled, he

said to Bharati, 'I am unmarried; give me privilege of six months to

answer your questions. I have no experience about it, I have read it

in the books and whatever answers I will give will be shallow.'

Bharati agreed and she said, 'You go, experience and come back.'

Shankaracharya went - but he was in a dilemma. He had taken an oath of

celibacy, now to find a woman; to get married will alter the whole

structure of his life. So Shankaracharya left his body and entered

into the body of a king - a king was dying, Shankaracharya entered

into his body. He lived in that body for six months and experienced

the married life. He returned to Bharati after six months for the

debate. Bharati saw Shankaracharya and said, 'There is no need for

debate; you have experienced it. Now accept me as your disciple.'

 

All the opponents became disciples of Shankaracharya. His experience

of the 'Truth' forced the opponents to accept their limitations. They

surrendered to Shankaracharya with love and devotion. They knew that

this was the person who will lead them to 'Truth'.

 

, pyari_h <no_reply> wrote:

>

> Namaste _/\_ all.

>

> I came across this interesting excerpt about Sri Adi Shankaracarya from:

>

> http://www.indiastar.com/kavita.htm

>

> Even an ascetic like Shankara had to come to terms with erotic love.

> In one of the legends, he engages in a philosophical debate with

>

[Guest guest]

i have also read such a story on the 'internet' But when i raised

this question in one of the groups dedicated to the teachings of Adi

Shankara Bhagvadapada , the moderator of the group advised us that

such stories are baseless and does not find its place in 'Sankara

Digvijayam' ...in fact, in these groups , they only honnor the

Shruti, Smriti, Puranas etc .... and the Tantras ( only the

samyachara marg not the vamachara tantra- the left handed path of

panca makaras )

 

although , Devi Shaktis version seems closer to truth. Married life

versus erotic love.

 

I am not sure if Shankara composed - Amaru Shatakam but i have not

seen an English translation of this treatise on 'Erotic Love' - only

a teleugu Translation . ( may be Pyari Hari knows about it).

 

Devout advaitins like to honor Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada as

a 'celibate monk observing strict 'brahmacharya ' ... In Sadhana

panchakam, adi shankara advocates strict 'brahmacharya' in any

spiritual pursuit.

 

In tantra , of course, 'sex' is not considered as an obstacle in

Sadhna - But when tantriks speak of 'sex' they talk of 'maithuna' -

the act of 'sacred sex' - Maithuna is yogic sexual union.- 'ecstasy

leading to enlightenment and from the 'mundane we transcend to the

divine' - but this path is a dangerous path and is not recommended

for all - only for the person in the 'vira ' bhava - If not, oone

will 'fall' by the very thing one wants to 'rise' ! The pancha makra

sadhana is not for those in the 'tamasic' mode of nature .

( THERE IS A LOT OF NEW AGE TANTRA IN THE NAME OF Kaula tantra) -

REAL HINDU TANTRA IS BASED ON 'AGAMAS AND NIGAMAS.'

 

i am reminded of the following verse from Bhatruhari's

famous 'shringara shatakam '

 

Bhoga na bhuktaha

Vyameva Bhuktaha

Tapo na taptam

Vymeva Taptaha

Kaloe na Yamaha

Vyameva Yataha

Truishna na Jirna

vyaeva Jirnah

 

The pleasures of life are not consumed by us;

it is we that are consumed by the pleasures.

 

A penance is not performed by us;

we merely suffer the pain of the penance.

 

Time has not gone by ;

We have been carried away by time

(without our consent and away from our goals).

 

Our longings have not been fulfilled or exhausted;

we have been wasted by our longings

 

and as our beloved shankara bhagvadapada sings in Nirvana shatakam

 

Na Punyam Na Paapam Na Saukhyam Na Dukham

Na Mantro Na Teertham Na Vedo Na Yajnaha

Aham Bhojanam Naiva Bhojyam Na Bhoktaa

Chidaananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham !!

 

I have neither virtue nor vice,

nor pleasure, nor pain,

nor the sacred chant of

mantras nor pilgrimage,

nor the scriptures,

nor the sacrificial rituals,

I am neither the act of enjoying,

nor the enjoyable object,

nor the enjoyer,

I am pure Knowledge and Bliss,

I am shiva, the

Auspiciousness itself.

 

And Surya , if you read the archives, pyari hari herself quoted

these very lines in her message (6567) - it is always nice to

remember these golden words and everytime someone repeats them, the

meanings become clearer!

 

The world famous scriptural declaration from

Kathopanishad 1.2.23 -

 

nAyamAtma pravacanena labhyo

na medhayA na bahunA zrutena,

yame vaiSa vRNute tena labhya-

stasyaiSa AtmA vivRNute tanUM svAm

 

God is NOT KNOWN through the study of Scriptures,

nor through subtlety of the intellect

nor through much learning.

 

WHOM the Lord CHOOSES (out of His causeless Grace),

by him alone GOD is ATTAINED, verily unto him

does the Supreme REVEAL His True BEING.

 

No one can buy God with spiritual practices.

 

Those great souls who have attained God DECLARE to us

that Divine Illumination and enlightenment comes,

"only through His Divine Grace."

 

JAYA JAYA SHANKARA

 

HARA HARA SANKARA

 

Surya writes

 

dear friend

 

> Adi sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. This article is really

downgrading the divine personality, like attaching desire for lust to

Lord. It is very pitiable understanding of Lord. As per Veda 'na

medhaya', 'naisha tarkena', which means human intelligence cannot

understand the Lord. Hence Lord Himself reveals the divine secrets to

His closest devotees.

[Guest guest]

dear friend

 

 

 

Hanuman, a topmost devotee identified Lord Rama and served Him and always said

I am servant to Lord Rama. He even performed many miracles also and still he has

given credit of them to Rama only. (Dasoham kosalendrasya.....) For such

worship, Lord has given future creator post to Hanuman.

 

 

 

Peter, John... identified Lord Jesus by His divine knowledge and participated in

the propagation of divine knowledge. They left the families without any second

thought and went along with Lord Jesus.

 

 

 

Gopikas identified and worshipped Lord Krishna, the then human incarnation only

and got the highest fruit of top most Goloka.

 

 

 

Swami vivekananda participated in the mission of propagation of divine knowledge

on the order of the then human incarnation Rama krishna parama hamsa .

 

 

 

Likewise the disciples of Adisankara worshipped Him as lord and latter on

participated in the propagation of His divine knowledge.

 

 

 

Meerabai also propagated Krishna bhakti by composing hymns and propagated them.

 

 

 

In all these, the disciples identified the Lord in the human form during their

time and participated in His mission as servants.

 

 

 

So, first one should identify the Satguru and then learn divine knowledge from

Him. These disciples worshipped their Satguru. At His order, they participated

in the propagation of divine knowledge as Service to Lord.

 

 

 

Service only proves our real devotion, which consists of donating money &

physically participating in His mission.

 

 

 

The propagation of divine knowledge should be carried out under the guidance of

a Spiritual teacher (Satguru), who is nothing but Lord Himself. This is the most

pious job. Divine knowledge means the knowledge required for the identification

of lord when comes in Human form. Human beings interpretations cannot be

accepted.

 

 

 

Propagation of false or misleading knowledge is a sin. Because, anybody who is a

sincere seeker will get diverted or misled and finally he will not get the grace

of Lord.

 

 

 

Reading & understanding the scriptures on our own is very difficult. These

scriptures are nothing but the word of Lord only. So when He comes in Human

form, why can't we avail Him and serve Him practically? Why to unnecessarily

struggle ourselves in understanding what is written in scriptures like Bible,

Gita, Khuran etc.

 

 

 

Until unless mind is convinced with true spiritual knowledge, it is difficult to

practice. Divine knowledge is to be practiced to get the grace of Lord and is

not meant for teaching only or for discussions only.

 

 

 

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

 

 

roopika_devi <roopika_devi wrote:

i have also read such a story on the 'internet' But when i raised

this question in one of the groups dedicated to the teachings of Adi

Shankara Bhagvadapada , the moderator of the group advised us that

such stories are baseless and does not find its place in 'Sankara

Digvijayam' ...in fact, in these groups , they only honnor the

Shruti, Smriti, Puranas etc .... and the Tantras ( only the

samyachara marg not the vamachara tantra- the left handed path of

panca makaras )

 

although , Devi Shaktis version seems closer to truth. Married life

versus erotic love.

 

I am not sure if Shankara composed - Amaru Shatakam but i have not

seen an English translation of this treatise on 'Erotic Love' - only

a teleugu Translation . ( may be Pyari Hari knows about it).

 

Devout advaitins like to honor Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada as

a 'celibate monk observing strict 'brahmacharya ' ... In Sadhana

panchakam, adi shankara advocates strict 'brahmacharya' in any

spiritual pursuit.

 

In tantra , of course, 'sex' is not considered as an obstacle in

Sadhna - But when tantriks speak of 'sex' they talk of 'maithuna' -

the act of 'sacred sex' - Maithuna is yogic sexual union.- 'ecstasy

leading to enlightenment and from the 'mundane we transcend to the

divine' - but this path is a dangerous path and is not recommended

for all - only for the person in the 'vira ' bhava - If not, oone

will 'fall' by the very thing one wants to 'rise' ! The pancha makra

sadhana is not for those in the 'tamasic' mode of nature .

( THERE IS A LOT OF NEW AGE TANTRA IN THE NAME OF Kaula tantra) -

.......

Surya writes

 

dear friend

 

> Adi sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. This article is really

downgrading the divine personality, like attaching desire for lust to

Lord. It is very pitiable understanding of Lord. As per Veda 'na

medhaya', 'naisha tarkena', which means human intelligence cannot

understand the Lord. Hence Lord Himself reveals the divine secrets to

His closest devotees.

 

 

 

SURYA

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar,

 

I found this on Amarusataka :

 

The Sanskrit Amarusataka is currently dated to the middle of the eighth

century. Tradition ascribes the anthology to a single author, a King Amaru

or Amaruka of Kashmir. Modern scholars have been divided as to whether Amaru

wrote all the poems, whether he was a compiler, even whether he existed. The

translations in this issue are from the Southern Indian edition of the

Amarusataka, compiled by Vemabhupala in about 1400. It was edited by C. R.

Devadhar and published under the title Amarusatakam with Srngaradipika of

Vemabhupala by Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1954.

 

and an other one said:

 

The 7th-century writer Amaru used the muktaka form for his erotic vignettes

in the Amarusataka (The Century of Love). and a site mentioned that it is of

tantric Buddhism origin.

(Concidently,If you read the article pyari posted the story of Adi

Shanakaracharya just appears after a paragraph on Buddhism and Tantra.)

 

The author Kavita Sharma has an Ph.d in English must have read only

translations. Her bibliography given at the end of the article does not

include a single Religious book or say any book in Sanskrit. What she has

done is studied some 15 books on Life of Women and issues related to

matrimony,etc in India and made her own article. She did not go into check

if the story she was writing was wrong or right.

 

Her life entire life profile is given below and I do not think pyari ,

reading her bio-data anywhere she has made a deep study of Adi

shankaracharya's Work.She is more into the Educatinal and women issues and

since her husband was a former secretary with the ministry of external

affairs, her many articles are related to NRI's, immigration,Indian

diaspora. And since she studied in Canada she has many articles on Canada

and India relations.Folowing is Her website and go and read her profile.

also some of her article tthat do relate to scriptures of Mahabharata or

Sita are only do deal with Women issues, marraiges ,life of women, and Women

only, not spiritualism. Though she is a principal and seems to be famous in

the educational field. http://drkavitasharma.com/:

 

 

I hope Pyari-h uou post articles written by people who have a spiritual

mindset and have done research in the field.

 

One interesting observation.

 

Only one thing Shankaracharya took 6 months time to come back. If He is

travelling from Kerala to Kashmir in ancient times without tar roads, only

mountainous roads, climbing mountains,and since He was a monk he would

probably roamed walking then travelling in a bullock cart. He would have

also met a lot of people on the way, given discourses, and also taken

continous rest too while travelling. Kasmir to Kerala is about 3500kms. A

man average speed is 4km/hour and probably n ancient times even if

Shankaracharya had taken to walking at sunrise at about 6:00 and till sunset

about 5:30 , taken into consideration that there were not smooth and plain

roads, there were climbs and downhills , and hence rest period everyday

would mean Shankaracharya walking maximum 5 hours everyday (assumption) that

would mean 5*4 = 20 kms per day. Divide 3500/20= 175days add to it the no of

days Adi Shankaracharya would have taken complete rest and given discourse

and spent time at Tith sthaals about 50 days . Total= 175 + 50 = 225 days =

7.5months minimum to only reach Kashmir.and take 15 months to go and come

back (minimum). this is a just a thought!!!

 

Namaskar,

devishakti_india

 

 

On 10/17/05, roopika_devi <roopika_devi wrote:

>

> i have also read such a story on the 'internet' But when i raised

> this question in one of the groups dedicated to the teachings of Adi

> Shankara Bhagvadapada , the moderator of the group advised us that

> such stories are baseless and does not find its place in 'Sankara

> Digvijayam' ...in fact, in these groups , they only honnor the

> Shruti, Smriti, Puranas etc .... and the Tantras ( only the

> samyachara marg not the vamachara tantra- the left handed path of

> panca makaras )

>

> although , Devi Shaktis version seems closer to truth. Married life

> versus erotic love.

>

> I am not sure if Shankara composed - Amaru Shatakam but i have not

> seen an English translation of this treatise on 'Erotic Love' - only

> a teleugu Translation . ( may be Pyari Hari knows about it).

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, prakki surya <dattapr2000>

wrote:

>

> dear friend

>

> Adi sankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. This article is really

downgrading the divine personality, like attaching desire for lust to

Lord.

 

Shiva has a wife called Parvati...why his incarnation should not

taste the forbidden apple ?

 

I am surprised at such comments...why you people always take SEX

as a sin and as a forbidden act.

 

This incident was in fact a lesson for Adi Shankracharya...that

to be complete, he must have knowledge of sex too, which makes an

important portion of the universal Energies.

 

If sex is bad...then why shud we appreciate flowers their

fragrance and beautiful colors ? this is sex for a flower to attract

insects to get their pollen spread.

 

We become happy to see a peacock dancing or a parrot singing...

in fact it is sexual calls for the partner.

 

The whole universe is induldging in sex in one way or the

other...why cant we take it as a normal living ...like breathing or

like heart beating...and stop giving it unnecessary importance by

shunning away from it.

 

love

 

baba

[Guest guest]

hello friend

 

Sankara went to the house of Mandana Misra and begged for a debate. Then

Manadana Misra abused Sankara and refused the debate. Sankara entered the house

of Mandana Misra even though the doors were locked. Therefore the world is

Mithya for Him. But Vyasa and Jaimini who were present there objected to such

attitude. Then only Mandana Misra entered into a debate and the debate continued

for twenty-one days.

 

At the end Mandana Misra realized the truth and became the disciple of Sankara.

Here Mandana Misra was benefitted and not Sankara. Therefore you must try to

uplift all the souls in this world. Even if the mud falls on you, you must have

patience.

 

Sankara did not return back even if Mandana Misra abused Him in a pungent way.

The father tries to correct his son even if his son scolds him. Such kind

attitude is the divine nature. Krishna tried for kauravas and Hanuman tried for

Ravana even if they were insulted. Ofcourse you should leave a rigid person,

which should be your last resort because such person is destined to his fate.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

 

devishakti_india <devishaktiindia wrote:

THE STORY AS IT IS :

 

During Adi Shakaracharya's time, India was full of people who were

entangled in words. It was impossible to communicate with their

hearts. He used logic to remove the barriers from human mind, so that

the mirror-like consciousness will get exposed. He was forced to argue

because he knew that no communication is possible before

[Guest guest]

Greetings, Surya !

 

You write:

 

(Sankara went to the house of Mandana Misra and begged for a debate.

Then Manadana Misra abused Sankara and refused the debate. Sankara

entered the house of Mandana Misra even though the doors were locked.)

 

It is my pleasure to narrate here what exactly happened during that

encounter between Mandan Mishra and Adi shankara .

 

Sankara and his disciples started for Mahishmati, on the banks of

Narmada where Mandana Mishra lived.

 

"O, gentle woman, Do you know one Mandana Mishra here ?asked

Sankara .

 

The woman replied "Mandana Mishra ?You go this way straight.

You will find a big house with a tall gate and walls all around.There

the parrots living on trees would be repeating Vedic Mantras !"

 

"Even parrots repeating Vedic Mantras? Wonderful; great indeed is our

opponent and it is not that easy to win over him", said Sankara to

his disciples.

 

The gate of the house of Mandana was locked from inside.

Sankara with his Yogic power forced himself inside the house.

 

Mandana was performing the Srardha ceremoney for his father.

He was not amused by the sudden appearance of a sanyasi in the middle

of a srardha ceremoney.

 

He got annoyed due to his allergy to one who was not a ritualist and

also because of the way he got in uninvited.

 

He asked him in a sarcastic manner: "Kuto Mundi ? "From where are

you, O clean shaven one ?"

 

Sankara could see the sarcasm in the words and decided to have some

fun.

 

The words Kuto Mundi can also be interpreted in Sanskrit

as "How far have you shaved?"

 

Sankara replied: "Agalan mundi " Shaven up to the neck only "

 

"Margam Prichate Maya."said Mandana,"I am asking the way."

 

Sankara did not leave the joke.

He replied, ""Kim aha Pantha? What did it tell you?"

 

Mandana was visibly upset by the taunting remarks.

He replied angrily, "The way said that your mother is a widow."

 

Sankara said mischievously,"Tha Thevahi"It might be true,

Thus he meant that the way told Mandana about his (Mandana's) mother.

 

Mandana got angry shouted, "Sura Peetha ?"Are you drunk?

Sankara REPLIED ,"Liquor is white ,not yellow" .

The word Peetha asked by Mandana can also mean yellow.

"I see ,So you know the colour?" replied Mandana

"I know the colour, but you prhaps know its taste?'replied Sankara.

 

Mandana became more angry and this sort of sarcasm continued for some

time.

 

Later the other guests for the Srardha ceremoney intervened and

advised Mandana to invite Sankara for Biksha.

 

" I want only a VAADA BHIKSHA - a Biksha of discussions

and arguments - not for eating." said Sankara.

 

Mandana said, "We shall have it tomorrow.

But now you have your food with me."

 

On this note , they reconciled their differences.

 

http://entertainment.vsnl.com/balarangam/sankara.html

 

Surya, you are right ! Adi Shankara Bhagwadapada is not an 'ordinary'

person . HE is revered as a Sadguru by many and therefore we need to

respect and honor him !

 

In Totakshtakam, Sankara's disciple addreses his Master thus

 

gurupuñgava puñgava ketana te

samatámayatám nahi ko pi sudhiç

ùaraïágatavatsala tattvanidhe

bhava ùañkara deùika me ùaraïam.

 

O the best of Teachers! The Supreme Lord having the built as banner!

None of the wise is equal to Thee! Thou who art compassionate to

those who have taken refuge! The Treasure-trove of truth! Be Thou my

refuge, O Master Sankara.

 

Jaya Jaya Shankara !

 

Hara Hara Shankara!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste all _/\_ .

 

Enjoy reading more on the biography of Adi Jagadguru Sri Shankara

Bhagavatpada at:

 

/message/3984

 

/message/4008

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

 

 

, pyari_h <no_reply> wrote:

 

> Shankara enters the body of Amaru, identified in the legend as a king

> of Kahmir, who had died on a hunting expedition in the forest. He is

said to have composed a poetic work in the name of Amaru

> displaying his mastery of the sexual sentiments and erotic arts

> --Amaru sataka. The holy man then abandoned the body of the king and

> returned to win his debate with Mandan Misra.

>

> As Lee Siegel suggests, the poems are in no way ascetic, yet they

> might be in some sense, religious (16). While it was the goal of the

> sanyasis, inspired by the teachings of saints like Shankara, to

> experience the sacred through asceticism, it was the goal of rasikas,

> inspired by the words of poets like Amaru, to experience the sacred

> through aestheticism.

>

> Lee Siegel points out: Both Sankara and Amaru were worshippers of

> Siva, and in the vast mythology of that god -- Siva is the erotic

> ascetic, fire and water -- there is implicit fusion of the passionate

> and renunciatory impulses. At once ferocious and gentle, Destroyer and

> Creator, slayer of demons and lover of the goddess, Siva is an

> exemplar of power: sexual power, martial power, and religious power,

> the power of yoga (17)."

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Glad to see your good points for which my post was originally

intended to bring out.

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

 

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba> wrote:

>

>

> Shiva has a wife called Parvati...why his incarnation should not

> taste the forbidden apple ?

>

> I am surprised at such comments...why you people always take SEX

> as a sin and as a forbidden act.

>

> This incident was in fact a lesson for Adi Shankracharya...that

> to be complete, he must have knowledge of sex too, which makes an

> important portion of the universal Energies.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaskar ,

 

Following are quotes of Swami Vivekananda on Tantra,the second quote

is the best, since Tantra_rag had originally started the thread that

Tantra advocates sex, hence some food for thought:

 

 

 

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA ON TANTRA:::::::::::

 

1)On reason of decline on Buddhism in India:

 

It was not through his ( Buddha ) teachings that Buddhism came to such

degradation, it was the fault of his followers. By becoming too

philosophic they lost much of their breadth of heart. Then gradually

the corruption of Vamachara ( unrestrained mixing with women in the

name of religion ) crept in and ruined Buddhism. Such diabolical rites

are not to be met with in any modern Tantra!

 

------------------------------

2)On practise of tantra and worship of Women:

 

I denounce only the present day corrupted form of Vamachara of the

Tantras. I do not denounce the Mother-worship of the Tantras, or even

the real Vamachara. The purport of the Tantras is to worship women in

a spirit of divinity. During the downfall of Buddhism, the Vamachara

became corrupted and that corrupted form obtains to the present day.

Even now the literature of India is influenced by those ideas. I

denounonly those corrupt and horrible practices. I never objected to

the worship of women, who are living embodiment of worship of women

whose external manifestations, appealing to the senses have maddened

men, but those internal manifestations, such as knowledge, devotion,

discrimination and dispassion make a omniscient of unfailing purpose,

and a knower of Brahman-"Shesha prasanaa vardaa krunam bhavati nuktay"

– She, when pleased, becomes propitious and the cause of freedom of

man" ( Chandi 1.57). Without propitiating Mother by worship and

obeisance, not even Brahma and Vishnu have the power to elude Her

grasp and attain freedom,

 

--

3)On management of the Ramakrishna Math in a letter, wher he in

details gives how the Ramakrishna Math should be managed:

 

None of you are fit for the Vamachara form of practice. Therefore this

should on no account be practiced at the Math. Anyone demurring to

this must step out of the Order. This form of practice must never even

be mentioned in the Math. Ruin shall seize the wicked man, both here

and hereafter, who would introduce vile Vamachara into His fold!