Woman - A doorway to hell ????

[Guest guest]

human being are in the basic kosha. it is very

difficult for men to go for higher kosha.but as for as

women concern they have to be in annamaya for the

creation.

namasivayam

--- beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat women like Devis.

All the world knows how we also treated our women.

 

Quoting scriptures will not do...becoz the same books say

something else too :-

 

1- Rigveda says (8/33/17) - It is very difficult to control a woman

becoz their intelligence is crooked and their Samkalpa can not

be suppressed

 

2-Rigveda says (10/95/15) The friendship and love of a woman is never

to be trusted becoz their heart is like that of a wolf

 

3- Yajurveda Shatpath brahmin says (5.3.2.2/14.1.1.31) a woman

without son is bad omen and any woman, shudra, dog and crow always

carry lies and sins with them

 

4- Yajurveda (6/5/8/2) says women lack power they should not be given

their share in property, they are not strict even with a rogue and

are afraid of everything

 

5- Tulsidas says in Ramcharitmanas - Dhol Ganwar shudra pashu nari,

ye sab tadan ke adhikari - A drum, an idiot, a shudra and a woman all

need severe beating

 

So instead of denying the fact that all religions whole of the

society deprived woman of their share, let us find out why this was so

 

We are a male dominated society and what this society has given to

us ? 5000 wars in the known history, hunger, hatered and what not.

 

Our saints always shunned woman in the name of religion. Chief

of swami narayan cult had to be taken out in curtains, so that his

sight not fall on a woman.

 

To my opinion, a woman is spiritually more prone to

enlightenment. Those who said"Naari Narak ka dwar hai" were sick

people who had some psychological problems with sex and women. They

forgot to see women as a Mother, but saw her only as a devil coming

to destroy the Tapas of rishis.

 

Yes Tantra was the only sect, which respected women equal to a

man not only equal but a compliment of male. Male in Tantra is

incomplete without a woman. But Tantra is lost now and so has the

respect of a woman.

 

A man is mind-oriented person whereas a woman is heart-oriented

persons and it is far easy to get enlightenment for a heart oriented

person than a logical male.

 

And my strong opinion is that even a male when reaches some

heights of sadhna, becomes feminine. A great Indian writer has

written in one of his novels " A man attaining qualities of a woman

becomes Deva, whereas a woman attaing qualities of a man become a

Whore"

 

Perhaps our saints knew this that woman could jumpt to higher

states more easily so out of sheer competition, they deprived her of

her share in the society and kept her busy in making children and

running the house.

 

Anyone agrees ??

 

baba

[Guest guest]

You have not surpassed the ability to see all as souls.......you are cant even

see good things in human........and here you write as if you are very

knowledgeable...........Pity on you....Those who accept that they have a problem

can be cured by saints, who come to our earth planet time to time........But for

you there is no hope.....Come out of ignorance.....there is still

time....Understand what Scriptures says from a qulified Guru.......You need help

brother or you will die ignorant....Infact I should add.....you will ruin the

precious human birth which God has graced you with......

 

The Vedas says many things....about ignorant people......Have you accepted

that..?

 

Your well wisher

 

Who_make_sense

 

beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat women like Devis.

All the world knows how we also treated our women.

[Guest guest]

"Woman - A doorway to hell ????"

My answer is "Yes ! The doorway to get out from hell is women's

innate instict of self-sacrificing, care and unconditional LOVE.

Do remeber that a door is essential not only for the entrance

but to exit too. If you think that you are presently living in a

paradise, the women is the way for you to hell; but if you consider

this Mayavic world as painfull and suffereing, the only exit for you

to take refuge into the sentiments of womendood"

How is this interprewtation? And I guess, the correct one for Manu

Smriti sloka under reference.

Love,

Satish

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woman - A doorway to hell ????

My answer is, "yes! womenhood is the only instict that prooves

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to be

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

herself

[Guest guest]

Yes Satish, There is no problem in woman.....The problem is in our way of

looking.........There could be lots of cow manure in garden for plants but a

wise person would always look at flowers...and not the shit..........If you have

shit in brain you will see shit.......very simple....Dont blame other....

 

safar_x <no_reply> wrote:"Woman - A doorway to hell ????"

My answer is "Yes ! The doorway to get out from hell is women's

innate instict of self-sacrificing, care and unconditional LOVE.

Do remeber that a door is essential not only for the entrance

but to exit too. If you think that you are presently living in a

paradise, the

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woman - A doorway to hell ????

My answer is, "yes! womenhood is the only instict that prooves

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to be

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

herself

 

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Strong statements my friend, strong judgements about who is ignorant

or who is going where!!!! Getting personal is a common way to divert

attention from real issues, and even more so when people hit close to

unpleasant truths. Such statements have the potential (depending on

one's consciousness)to trigger people's ego, a fight ensues, and the

real issue is tabled yet again. Ages have gone by, and this cycle

continues, burying real issues under layers of ignorant posturing.

Beating up the messenger for the message does not correct problems ..

it creates more!!!

 

The two wonderful posts (pyari and baba) quoting scriptures

supporting both aspects of this issues points to the fundamental

obstacle in any "religion". Contradictions. Anyone can find scripture

to support their point of view. This is especialy true for Vedic

literature, which has a tradition of open discussion and huge numbers

of texts have evolved under its umbrella. One can find apparent

contradictions even within a text itself, if one wants to. This, in

fact, is also true for other old religions.

 

Such self-serving use of scriptures has been the cause of many a war,

and many injustices. People all over the world have been killed,

hurt, maimed, and insulted, because they were not the "right"

(according to someone's version of scriptures) color, religion,

caste, gender, age, nationality or looks. This fact is unversal and

no one can deny it. If they do so, they are contributers and

participants in this problem.

 

I see two aspects to this issue.

 

1. How did such contradictions appear in our texts?

 

Are these contradictions for real or just appearances? Are they

misinterpretations, incorrect translations, misuse or simply

fabrications by various authors?

 

If it is misinterpretation, then it behooves us to make an attempt to

clarify such declarations from the texts which are prone to

misunderstandings. If it is fabrication, then its even more important

to bring it to light.

 

2. Does it reflect on the religion?

 

If they are misuse, then can one blame religion for that? People take

scriptures and choose to extract what resonates with themselves and

use it for persuing their own karmic agenda. Is that the religion's

fault? At least in Sanatan Dharm, there is no single gatekeeper of

thoughts and ideas, which has actually been the reason for its

survival and success. No one organization or individual can exercise

control, though people have certainly attempted to do so.

 

The strength and power of this philosophy protects it, while some of

the specific practices evolve with the consciousness of the people.

Anything that depends on humans, has to be part of the karmic cycle.

As one sows so they reap, individually or collectively. The strength

of the philosophy underlying Sanatan Dharma provides a Universal

Natural Law, which is independant of people's beliefs eg. Karmic law

will work, whether we believe or not, or the law of creation will

work whether we abide by it or not.

 

One thing to remember is that period related parables, analogies,

stories, metaphors etc are a very important part of Vedic literature.

This may lend itself to misinterpretation as history moves on. In

fact, metaphors of one culture often is a total misnomer in another.

So it can make total sense that metaphors of one yuga are

misunderstood in another.

 

These are some thoughts. It is a very very important topic for

discussion and dialogue. Too many people have suffered because of

this problem. We can sit back and say, its karma or we can do our

little part in shedding light and clarification. Either way, its a

choice we make, whether we like it or not.

 

At the same time, let's be careful when we judge others .. "The world

is only as we are".

 

I eagerly look forward to a dialogue here.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

, Totally useless

<who_make_sense> wrote:

> You have not surpassed the ability to see all as souls.......you

are cant even see good things in human........and here you write as

if you are very knowledgeable...........Pity on you....Those who

accept that they have a problem can be cured by saints, who come to

our earth planet time to time........But for you there is no

hope.....Come out of ignorance.....there is still time....Understand

what Scriptures says from a qulified Guru.......You need help brother

or you will die ignorant....Infact I should add.....you will ruin the

precious human birth which God has graced you with......

>

> The Vedas says many things....about ignorant people......Have you

accepted that..?

>

> Your well wisher

>

> Who_make_sense

>

> beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

> Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat women like Devis.

> All the world knows how we also treated our women.

[Guest guest]

Dear Baba

 

Let's not generalize. Many people DO treat women very well. (We may

have different definitons of "well" !! )

 

While they may be a minority, it still exists, and we don't need to

lose sight of that. However, in a world of might is right, majority

rules, many, many women have suffered and are still suffering and I

thank you for having the courage to bring such a topic up for

dialogue.

 

I wish we had the ability to take a poll in our group, about member's

ideas about role of women .. we may be surprised.

 

Perhaps we can use our sister group, and use the polling feature

there.

ANGIE!!!!! are you here these days?

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

> Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat women like Devis.

> All the world knows how we also treated our women.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

Lord Krishna answered in Bhagavatam 11.14., when questioned by the

great jnani-devotee Uddhava about the various contradictions in the

philosophies derived from the Scriptures:

 

".... By the influence of time, the transcendental sound of Vedic

knowledge was lost at the time of annihilation. Therefore, when the

subsequent creation took place, I spoke the Vedic knowledge to Brahma

because I Myself am the religious principles enunciated in the Vedas.

 

Lord Brahma spoke this Vedic knowledge to his eldest son, Manu, and

the seven great sages headed by Bhrigu Muni then accepted the same

knowledge from Manu.

 

Thus, due to the great variety of desires and natures among human

beings, there are many different theistic philosophies of life, which

are handed down through traditions. There are also other teachers who

directly support even atheistic viewpoints.

 

O best among men, the intelligence of human beings is bewildered by My

illusory potency, and thus, according to their own activities and

whims, they speak in innumerable ways about what is actually good for

people....."

 

Material intellect fails to grasp subtle truths. Without Divine wisdom

and spiritual guidance of Self-realized Masters and Saints, the

apparently contradicting statements in Scriptures are not correctly

understood. It is not uncommon for 'maya baddha jiva' (the individual

soul under the influence of Lord's illusory power) to be bewildered by

the various controversies.

 

Jaya Sri Radhey!

 

 

 

, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

 

> Anyone agrees ??

>

> baba

[Guest guest]

Dear seeker of truth

 

If I have hurt you...I am sorry from bottom of my heart..My intention was to

make you think hard and look into oneself...Yes..I agree my way of answering was

rude as being a female it seemed very wrong......If you have doubts about

scriptures and have questions..Good ..it needs to be solved ....But our

questions should be put forward to a Saint ..who can explain us the correct

meaning of Vedas,,,,

 

I can suggest you such SAINT....Not only Vedas..but ..what ever you are looking

for you will get it from HIM........

 

HE is Jagadguru Kripaluji Maharaj..........HE is accepted as a ultimate

authority of all scriptures by all the scholars of India and by Kashi Vidvat

Parishat...and HE is so kind that who ever goes to HIM with any doubts HE would

give HIS time and explain all doubts in detail.......If you like to meet

HIM..which I advise you should....HIS detail can be obtained from www.jkp.org

 

I am sure ' Ms Pyari_h' who contribute with her views in this group will

agree with me on the authority of Shri Kripaluji Maharaj on scriptures.I request

her to please introduce Shri Maharaj ji for benefit of soul like us.....

 

Who_make_sense

 

Tatwamasi <tatwamasi wrote:

Strong statements my friend, strong judgements about who is ignorant

or who is going where!!!!

[Guest guest]

No dear, you didn't hurt me at all ... in fact I don't get hurt so

easily. Thakur sends many people for my growth, and I thank them all

for their presence. Thank you, for understanding what I was trying to

point out.

 

Dear Pyari has in fact introduced us to Kripaluji Maharaj, as others

have to their enlightened Gurus. I look forward to hearing your own

experiences, your understanding that you have derived from your

journey.

 

 

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, Totally useless

<who_make_sense> wrote:

> Dear seeker of truth

>

> If I have hurt you...I am sorry from bottom of my heart..My

intention was to make you think hard and look into oneself...Yes..I

agree my way of answering was rude as being a female it seemed very

wrong......If you have doubts about scriptures and have

questions..Good ..it needs to be solved ....But our questions should

be put forward to a Saint ..who can explain us the correct meaning of

Vedas,,,,

>

[Guest guest]

everybody should accept the truth that the other side

of women is ugly

namasivayam

 

--- safar_x <no_reply> wrote:

> "Woman - A doorway to hell ????"

> My answer is "Yes ! The doorway to get out from hell

> is women's

> innate instict of self-sacrificing, care and

> unconditional LOVE.

>

[Guest guest]

sorry to say

all scriptures and vedas are cosmic debris

Quoting them, i feel searching some thing from the

rubbish

namasivayam

 

--- beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

> Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat

>

[Guest guest]

" Mirror Mirror on the wall

Do you see yourself at all? "

 

, nama siva <nama_sivam> wrote:

 

> everybody should accept the truth that the other side

> of women is ugly

> namasivayam

>

[Guest guest]

->

Hello....with all due respect may I ask what is this other side of

women that you are talking about? Is this your own theory or are you

quoting someone?

 

warm regards.

 

 

PS I am not sure my posting will be seen on the mssg board,as

my previous one was not.

 

 

>

> , nama siva <nama_sivam> wrote:

>

> > everybody should accept the truth that the other side

> > of women is ugly

> > namasivayam

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes you are right...But we should accept that the otherside of men too is

ugly.....why just blame women

 

nama siva <nama_sivam wrote:everybody should accept the truth that

the other side

of women is ugly

namasivayam

 

--- safar_x <no_reply> wrote:

> "Woman - A doorway to hell ????"

> My answer is "Yes ! The doorway to get out from hell

> is women's

> innate instict of self-sacrificing, care and

> unconditional LOVE.

>

[Guest guest]

You need help

 

nama siva <nama_sivam wrote:sorry to say

all scriptures and vedas are cosmic debris

Quoting them, i feel searching some thing from the

rubbish

namasivayam

 

--- beirut_ka_baba <no_reply> wrote:

> Please do not try to prove that We hindus treat

>

[Guest guest]

My EXPERIENCES are many many.....But I can tell you one thing.....A good teacher

can teach you but a Guru will transform you..........My search is over.....I

need nothing from this world.....I desire nothing but service and love of Shri

Kripalu ji Maharaj......

[Guest guest]

First one member feels insulted, then another member gets mad and

strikes back in response .. or at least the words appear that way.

This game is what has been played again and again, and problems have

remained buried under the very dust we need to blow away.

 

"Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder."

 

Does everyone get awestruck at the beauty of a sunset? Does everyone

get ecstatic watching a toddler learn how to walk? Is everyone moved

with love towards a particular individual? Does everyone have tears

in their eyes when they see a particular saint? Does everyone cry

equally at someone's death? Does everyone see injustice in the same

event?

 

NO they don't. Because, the quality is not inherent in the event,

which triggers or reflects what is already within us. It is a

incredible mirror, providing us an incredible compass pointing us on

the areas of our lives we need to work on. If we choose to.

 

"The world is only as we are."

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

, Totally useless

<who_make_sense> wrote:

> Yes you are right...But we should accept that the otherside of men

too is ugly.....why just blame women

>

> nama siva <nama_sivam> wrote:everybody should accept the truth

that the other side

> of women is ugly

> namasivayam

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I think I should leave.........God bless you all.......its long way to

go......But hope atleast we start walking in right direction.........

 

Bye to all

[Guest guest]

I sincerely request you not to leave. This volley of harsh words and

hurt feelings, is precisely what I was talking about, and this is

what holds people back. Please don't allow words to offend you.

 

Words are energy in themselves, they effect all of us. It is the

power that lies behind the value of Bhajans, Kirtans or Mantras and

thus us powerful tool in our hands. It behooves all of us sadhaks to

be careful how we use it.

 

I also request Beirut baba to be sensitive to people and their love

for their Gurus. This love for Guru is the dynamic force behind a

disciples growth. Please honor that.

 

Forgive me for bringing these issues to everyone's attention.

 

Thanks

 

_/\_ Tat Twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

, Totally useless

<who_make_sense> wrote:

> Yes I think I should leave.........God bless you all.......its long

way to go......But hope atleast we start walking in right

direction.........

>

> Bye to all

[Guest guest]

Thanks for everything..........

 

I am not worried about any offensive words or insults to me......I am use to all

that and I take it as compliments....The words are hurting them......

 

I am worried about people who sometime respond to mails and in their innocence

do Naamapradh by saying bad about Mahapurush and Saints.....The biggest sin a

person can do is Naamapradh................and I thought of leaving group

because Instead of doing any thing good I am pushing them towards sin......I

wanted to avoid it...

 

Guru is same as God.....They dont curse anyone.....They are here for Kripa

only...They are far more happy to be with God but they chose to come back to

earth for souls like us who are suffering.......We should respect them........Go

and ask them you doubts they are ready to give you answers........Just blindly

rejecting them.....It is not wise..

 

we surrender to Doctors, when sick,,,,,, we surrender to lawyers ..for legal

problem.....surrender to CA for financial problem...but in spiritual field,

which we know nothing about , we feel we can make it without Guru........How

foolish it is......

 

who_make_sense.

 

Who_make_sense

 

Tatwamasi <tatwamasi wrote:

I sincerely request you not to leave. This volley of harsh words and

hurt feelings, is precisely what I was talking about, and this is

what holds people back. Please don't allow words to offend you.