karma

August 17, 2001

a good story once in a village the river

changed its course n started flowing from the middle of

the village . villagers became very much troubled n

started praying . one saint came n told that if a pure

soul in real sense comes n touches the river n shows

the direction the river will start flowing to that

direction . this was annonced all over so many preist

preachers teachers n all other ppl came n tried but in vein

the river did not change the direction . there

was a prossitute in the village . she heard n said

not a big thing . she went n touched the river n took

it out side the village n yes river changed the path

.. how can a prossitute be pure in real sense

??/when she was asked what made her to think that she can

do it . the prossitute said that she naver

differencitated amongst her coustmers whether a rich or poor a strong or

a week an educated or un educated a sick or a

healty even a leapretic person was on the same platform

.. that is what path of karma is .all r same n

it is not related with the proffession what ever u

do where ever u do withot discrimination any

comment

October 19, 2001

AVIDYA AND KARMA Originally there was a

single true spiritual Nature, uncreate and imperishable,

neither increasing nor decreasing, changeless and

immutable. Sentient beings, existing from the beginningless

beginning, suffering delusion, have been unaware of it.

Being hidden, it is called Tathagatagarbha, the womb of

the Tathagata. Because Tathagatagarbha is hidden,

there are the mental characteristics called birth and

death. True Mind, unborn and imperishable, and the

delusions of birth and death, coexist. They are neither

identical nor different, and this is called Alayavijnana,

the storehouse of consciousness. Alayavijnana has two

aspects, the enlightened and the unenlightened. Due to its

unenlightened dimension, whenever a deluded thought appears, it

is called a sign of karma. Since this thought is not

recognized as unreal in essence, it activates the subjective

consciousness and also projects the illusive world of objects.

But one does not realize that the objective world

appears out of the delusions of one's own mind. One

clings to this world of objects, believing it to have

indisputable existence. This is attachment to dhamma or

phenomena. Attachment to dhamma leads man to see a distinction between

himself and others and enhances attachment to himself.

Owing to this attachment to self, man loves with deeply

rooted greed objects that are agreeable to his feelings

and are advantageous to himself. He experiences anger

and disgust at objects which are not agreeable, and

he fears that pleasant objects might be missed while

disgusting ones may give him pain. These feelings, the

result of avidya, gradually increase in

intensity. We have received our present form of existence

because of initial karma, and secondary karma engenders

varying states of existence, high or low, rich or poor,

long or short, healthy or sickly, rising or falling,

pleasurable or painful. It has been said that humility or

arrogance in a previous life bears the fruit of high or low

position in the present; that benevolence brings

longevity; that murder results in a short life and greed in

poverty; but karmic consequences cannot be described in

detail. A man may suffer calamity without doing evil, or

he may be prosperous without performing good deeds;

longevity may occur without previous benevolence; and death

in youth is not always the result of murderous acts.

All these are consequences of the secondary karma

of a previous life. Those who fail to recognize this

think all things are the result of natural

randomness. According to this Teaching, the world of objects, created

by mind and consciousness, unfolds in two phases:

one joins with mind and consciousness to become man,

the other does not so join and becomes heaven and

earth and all their constituents. Amongst heaven, earth

and man, man is the most spiritual because he is

linked to the spirit of Mind. The Buddha taught this

when he said that the great external elements differ

from the four great internal elements. It is a

pity that people with incomplete knowledge cling to

partial views and remain confused. Renouncing the

inessential, they should return to the essential and meditate

upon the source of Mind. When petty errors are

exhausted and major misconceptions are removed, the

spiritual nature will be manifest. This state is called the

body of essence or the body of bliss.

TSUNG-MI ------------------------------- Looking forward to to seeing all

at the chat on our Sat

chat!

October 19, 2001

PARABLE OF THE MUSTARD SEED And he said

unto them: Take heed what ye hear: with what

measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you; and unto

you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath,

to him shall be given; and he that hath not, from

him shall be taken even that which he

hath. And he said: So is the kingdom of God, as if a man

should cast seed into the ground; and should sleep, and

rise night and day, and the seed should spring and

grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth

forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear,

after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit

is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the

sickle, because the harvest is come. And he

said: Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what

comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of

mustard seed,which, when it is sown in the earth, is less

than all the seeds that be in the earth; but when it

is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than

all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that

the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of

it. And with many such parables spake he the word unto

them, as they were able to hear it. The Gospel

According to

Mark --- Sounds like the Law of Karma to

me! _/\_

October 19, 2001

PAIN AND JOY The most important lesson

that man can learn from his life is not that there is

pain in this world, but that it depends upon him to

turn it into good account, that it is possible for him

to transmute it into joy. That lesson has not been

lost altogether to us, and there is no man living who

would willingly be deprived of his right to suffer

pain, for that is his right to be a man.... Man's

freedom is never in being saved troubles, but it is the

freedom to take trouble for his own good, to make the

trouble an element in his joy. It can be made so only

when we realize that our individual self is not the

highest meaning of our being, that in us we have the

world-man who is immortal, who is not afraid of death or

sufferings, and who looks upon pain as only the other side of

joy. He who has realized this knows that it is pain

which is our true wealth as imperfect beings, and has

made us great and worthy to take our seat with the

perfect. He knows that we are not beggars; that it is the

hard coin which must be paid for everything valuable

in this life, for our power, our wisdom, our love;

that in pain is symbolized the infinite possibility of

perfection, the eternal unfolding of joy; and the man who

loses all pleasure in accepting pain sinks down and

down to the lowest depth of penury and degradation. It

is only when we invoke the aid of pain for our

self-gratification that she becomes evil and takes her vengeance for

the insult done to her by hurling us into misery. For

she is the vestal virgin consecrated to the service

of the immortal perfection, and when she takes her

true place before the altar of the infinite she casts

off her dark veil and bares her face to the beholder

as a revelation of supreme joy. RABINDRANATH

TAGORE ------

October 20, 2001

Greetings Tatwamasi, Much as I admire your

eloquence, I disagree. What is the source of the theories

that you have outlined? This seems to me as a bunch

of illusion and idealism. Let me outline my

contradictions as follows: "Originally there was a single

true spiritual Nature, uncreate and imperishable,

neither increasing nor decreasing, changeless and

immutable." While there is a great debate among scientists as to

the origin and evolution of the universe and life,

one thing does stand out. All life has developed

thru evolution. The universe also has evolved. And

you don't have to believe in the big bang theory to

see this (although the big bang theory is

plausible). Even today the universe is constantly evolving through

a process of internal contradictions and the

resolution of those contradictions. Galaxies and stars

are splitting constantly and creating new galaxies

and stars. This is how everything has evolved.

Any belief in anything that is changeless, immutable

and imperishable is false and

illusionary. Similarly any belief in a single source of enery is

false. "But one does not realize that the objective world

appears out of the delusions of one's own mind. One

clings to this world of objects, believing it to have

indisputable existence. This is attachment to dhamma or

phenomena." This is a misconception and idealistic. A person's

consciousness is shaped by how he/she interacts with the

objects around him/her and the environment in which

he/she interacts with others. In very simple terms,

it is man's interaction with other objects and other

beings that shape consciousness. Culture and religion

is nothing but an aggregation of the consciousness

of all the people, within a given frame in history

and time. Over a period of time, this

religion/culture seems to assume a life of its own and to the

untrained eye it seems as if it indeed has a life of its

own. "Owing to this attachment to self, man loves with deeply

rooted greed objects that are agreeable to his feelings

and are advantageous to himself." False

!! Greed, competition and evil is not the product of any

religious belief, or the lack of it thereof. Greed

emerges as a direct result of the way each man must

produce for himself and acquire more and more surplus out

of work done by others. In this you find the

origins of exploitation and competition. As to the

theory of Karma as outlined in Hinduism, the theory of

Karma is the single biggest flaw in Hindusim-to the

extent that every other tenet of Hindusim collapses

because of the flaw in the theory of Karma. Karma

arose as a deceit, a smoke screen for the rich and the

priviledged to keep the under-priviledged and the downtrotten

under their thumb. The masses were told that

suffering is their destiny. They are suffering because

of their misdeeds in a previous life, and the ones

who are priviledged are so because of their karma of

their previous life. Then they are told to suffer in

silence because it will ensure them a place in heaven, or

a better lifestyle in their next 'life'. Karma

is simply an instrument of deceit and

exploitation. What the Hinduists don't see is that so much of the

religion is nothing but an aggregation of ideas to keep

the masses silent and unprotesting-just as the

Islamists don't realise that the entire world need not be

muslims and that anyone who is not a muslim is an

'infidel'. I would ask you to reconsider your views and not to

spread idealistic and non-secular concepts and mislead

those who are just starting this journey.

October 20, 2001

my brother, your words ring so true. I thought

induism is different but same preaching here too. Who

wants to read a quote from the Bible on a sunday? No,

bible please or sermon on the mount, never on a sunday.

A faith of mustard seeds can move mountains but

will it cure my hunger. Talk about Gita. No

preaching. Let me figure it out. However long it takes.

Is poverty my fate? I can git a job easily but I do

not want to serve noone. I would rather starve than

work for these exploiters. where is the

compassion? where is the love? who are these politicians,

these preachers, these leaders to tell us what is peace

and happiness. I am sick of words. They have lost

their meaning. But today my belly is full. just

got some nice rice pudding , lemon rice and curd rice

at the temple. Amen to that. The ladies all Gold

jewellery and bright clothes. I thought indoos are poor and

how these people get all this money from?

your dasa

October 20, 2001

I am quite fascinated at your um "request" for

Uma to stop speaking about her truth? I prefer

idealism over pure, cold intelligence, but that is just me

You are starting to sound vaguely like a

christian telling someone that since they do not believe in

the same way they are going to hell...now surely that

is not what you are implying here is it? That your

truth is right and uma's is wrong? Let me spank your

hand before i offer you a nice warm cookie out of the

oven in love, mirabai PS, i am

curious........where does the "silent" part come in ? )

October 20, 2001

This is how I learn What have you learned

except to tell us of what you eat for free? Eat of the

vast amount of knowledge here and apply it to your

life with love my friend. Take action each day to live

your truth. If that is by reading the Gita and

applying it or discussing it or sharing it.....that is

wonderful to me :)in love, mirabai

October 21, 2001

Greetings Mirabai, A man who cannot figure

out from where his next meal is going to come from

cannot view religion in the same way as you do. The

other memeber said that he continously tries to figure

out where he can get a free meal from. This is

sadly the plight of thousands of our brothers and

sisters all across the world. What they need is

action, and not words. What they need is reform, and

not religion. Religion is to society what leprosy

is to the body. Few people have the luxary today

of following religion-most are wondering how to

survive the coming day.

October 21, 2001

I view my Hinduism as a way of life, not a

religion. I have faith always that I will be provided for

and Krishna has always held my hand. I know I will be

taken care of by his grace. I dont just think of him

when I want something, I think of him constantly and

THANK him for his love. And do not be so quick to think

that I do not know about such things as hunger and

homelessness.. I have been there my friend.My comment was tongue

in cheek as Krishna IS providing for this member and

it is this members choice to live as he does, as he

stated. Krishna pulls him to temple each day with love

and provides. Is this not action? yes, some do wonder

how to survive the coming day, others...have faith in

the divine love. I would much rather spend time

counting my blessings then bemoaning what I do not have.

But again, that is just me in love, mirabai

October 21, 2001

Dear Brother, say nothing about lepers.Even they

are lucky. ALL these Christian Missionaries give

these lepers food, medical help etc. But, me . noone

wants to help. They say get a job. do this or that.

Once, I had a lovely woman. I have two children by her.

But we split. She took everything from me. My kids,

my house and my car. I don't want to work because

she takes away my income too for child support and

alimony. You do not know about American WOmen and their

their divorce lawyers. Both get rich after a divorce.

>From a man of means I have become a man of the street.

now, you tell me, dear brother. Why should I work? To

pay taxes to a government which spends money on war

on terrorism when its own people are hungry and

naked? or pay child support when I cannot even see my

children. your dasa (priest told me to use this word; He says it

means friend. )

October 21, 2001

one word.......choices Now, have a cookie I have chocolate chip or

raisen oatmeal in love, mirabai

October 21, 2001

Blessed Self, silentopposition 1.

Cosmology No one here disputes that "All life has developed

thru evolution." There a few fundamentalist Christians

who challenge your assertion about evolution.

The more important question is how the universe and

life first come into being. Scientists seem to support

a 'big bang' theory which, of course, leads to the

question of how that could happen if there was nothing to

start with. Vedantic cosmology postulates a recurring

big bang theory with pralaya or dissolution

inbetween. It is at least as viable an explanation as the

single big bang theory. I might point out that

all the discoveries in physics, even at the most

extreme theoretical frontiers of physics, always support

vedantic knowledge. Not one western so-called discovery

has invalidated any vedantic knowledge. So for

you to merely proclaim something to be false does not

make it so. 2. Consciousness Both you

and Uma agree with one another. You say, "In very

simple terms, it is man's interaction with other objects

and other beings that shape consciousness." This

accords exactly with Vedanta and with Patanjali's theory

of consciousness. Uma agreed with it and also

mentioned one of the consequences of that shaped

consciousness as greed. You added competition, exploitation and

evil as other consequences. So both of you are

in agreement. The purpose of spiritual practices is

to remove the conditioning that the ego and sensory

experience bring to consciousness. When this is done, one

becomes aware of their authentic Self as an inner divine

expression of Brahman. 3. Karma You claim

karma is the biggest flaw in Hinduism but you do not

say how it is a flaw. Karma and reincarnation answer

all the questions that other religions are unable to

answer. Far from bringing deceit and exploitation, karma

brings hope. By the way, did you know that

Christianity also believed in karma and reincarnation? These

concepts were excluded from official Christian teachings

by Constantine at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD but

continued to flourish until Justinian explicityl outlawed

it in 543 AD. Even then, reincarnation and karma

remained in Christianity until Justinian had a Church

Council in 553 AD declare that those who continued to

espouse those beliefs were heretics and subject to

torture and death. Naturally, people didn't talk about it

anymore. But there was a resurgence of belief in karma and

reincarnation in the 11th to 13th centuries. These beliefs were

driven underground by the Inquisition but were

maintained by the Rosicrucians and the Alchemists.

The Alchemists, by the way, were also trying to keep

alive the idea of chakras in western spiritual lore.

The Alchemists were known for trying to turn base

metals into gold. One of siddhis associated with the

Manipura Chakra is the making of gold. So all of

these Christians over the centuries had direct

knowledge of the truth of karma, reincarnation and the

chakra/nadi system that contains those truths and were

prepared to give their lives to protect and promulgate

that knowledge, which is the same knowledge of

Vedanta. ____________________________ You seem to have quite a

dogmatic view on these

topics but do not seem to be aware of the truth of the

issues. I will give you this and say that those

who practice Hinduism are, like those who practice

any religion, flawed beings who can be tempted to

misuse and misunderstand their religion in ways that

benefit themselves. But selfish acts such as these do not

invalidate the profound teachings on which the religion or

spiritual path is based. Om namah

Sivaya omprem

October 21, 2001

Greetings, First to clear-up a definition:

dasa means a servant. It used to be [still is] a

caste in the Indian society whose members used to serve

the others. You can be a 'dasa' only of the

community, or your country-if you are patriotic. But never

of a person. So you should never ever address

yourself as a dasa of anybody-so please don't use it as

your message signature. I perfectly understand

your fate. You are right that work has lost all its

meaning in the present society. Work is worship. Work is

above all. It gives a person a purpose in life-a reason

to live. But the fruits of work today are

appropriated. In fact it has always been that way. In

ancient times, it was appropriated by the ruling classes

and so-called religious institutions. Today it is

appropriated by your government-a government that you think

you elected to power. The worker is never paid his

full dues. A huge [huge] chunk of the fruits of your

labour are appropriated by the blood-sucking

industralists and capitalists as their own profit. Whatever is

left after that is appropriated by the government as

taxes-and then that money is used to fund and finance

terrorist groups and countries, so that the terrorists can

kill and maim you and your family. Don't be

misled by people who say there is a divine truth, or

that God provides for everyone. That is what the

idealists will have you believe !! You need to pull

your life back together and believe only in work.

Don't let the virus of religion or any ideas of karma

or saadhna or moksha to infect you. Pull yourself

together, man. Religion is not your saviour. You are !!!

October 21, 2001

Greetings Mirabai, I did not mean to cause

disrespect to anyone or anyone's views. I was merely

pointing out flaws in her statments and 'requesting' her

to re-examine her views because it might mislead

others. Secondly, I am not a Christian-right-wing or left-wing

I find the Christian institutions just as decadent

and corrupt as the Hindu ones. And I certainly

don't believe that if you don't agree with me you will

go to hell. You certainly won't because there ain't

any !! So while everyone of us is entitled to

their own views, the purpose of discussion is to evolve

our views through contradictions and resolutions.

October 21, 2001

Greetings OmPrem, Aren't you the one who

was posting jokes to the forum a couple of days

back? You certainly switch gears fast !! Let me

answer your queries: "So for you to merely proclaim

something to be false does not make it so." Exactly.

Similarly for you to proclaim something to be right does

not make it so. The one and only way to discover

the origins of the universe is through scientific

enquiry and study of the universe-not through the corrupt

religious texts of the Bible or the vedas. I find it

amusing to see the way the Christian right wishes to

enforce the Bible on the people and vehmently opposes the

teaching of physics and biology sciences in

schools. They want to take us all back in the age when the

church condemned Galileo for saying that the earth

revolved around the Sun, and not the other way

round. Similarly, the truth of the universe is not to be found in

the vedas but in scientific enquiry. As for

the disagreement on the idea of consciousness, I was

disagreeing with the following: "But one does not realize

that the objective world appears out of the delusions

of one's own mind. One clings to this world of

objects, believing it to have indisputable

existence." This is idealism. Our mind is shaped by the objects

that we work on. The tools and implements that we use

in day-to-day work and our quest for work and to

improve our work shapes our consciousness. It is our own

mind that is the delusion. We see the contradictions

in our work/efforts as contradictions in our

mind. Our ideas and our mind does not have any independent

existence at all. "Attachment to dhamma leads man to

see a distinction between himself and others and

enhances attachment to himself." Distinction

between one man and another is not caused by any

attachment to dhamma. It is caused directly and

indirectly by the class nature of our society-pitting one

class against another and the race to appropriate the

surplus produced by labour. Thus the genesis of greed

is to be found in the class nature of

society. Religion has proved incapable of eliminating this

condition. As for Karma and re-incarnation, I know the

historical perspective you gave. It simply confirms what

I said about inherent contradictions within all the

religions. You will be aware that the ideas of karma and

reincarnation exist simply to blind the eyes of the masses.

During the vedic ages, the ruling classes wanted to keep

the downtrotten classes to believe in it so that they

can go on enjoying 'this' life, while the rest of the

people live in wait for the 'next' life or

'moksha'. It worked very well, and that is how it has found

its way in the religious texts that you, so

ritualistically, quote as the ultimate authority in everything

from Physics to Life and Death. "You seem to

have quite a dogmatic view on these topics but do not

seem to be aware of the truth of the issues." I

am not dogmatoc. Far from it. I was simply saying

that the truth might lie *away* from the dogma of the

religious texts. Of course, no one knows the 'ultimate'

truth and the secret of the universe and life and

death. But by using logic and realism, you might begin to

see how these ideas found their way into the

religious texts and the origins of those ideas.

October 21, 2001

My dear Om and SilentOp, Please excuse for

butting into the very interesting discussion. Could

both of you clarify for my own understanding the

locus-standi of the observations made by both of you including

the direction of the GAZE? In simpler words, who

is the observer(shape, size, description) and the

direction in which looking, INWARDS or OUTWARDS ? May be

from here we may be able to venture into better

understanding? regards really

October 22, 2001

This reminds of a story.... There was

group of scientists, and they discovered/ invented many

things and were technically very advanced. There was

nothing that they cudn't do. Hence, they decided that,

there was no need of God anymore. But this info had to

be conveyed to God, and they were hesitant to go and

tell God. Finally one scientist agreed that he wud go

to God, and speak to Him. Scientist: "Oh God,

we have invented many things. We are technically

very advanced. We can even clone humans. There is

virtually nothing that we cannot do. So we have decided

that, we don't need you anymore." God: "I agree

that you are technically very advanced. But before

coming to a conclusion shall we have a small

test?" Scientist: " Sure, I am ready for any test. " God: "Ok,

then let's mold an idol of a human". Scientist : "

That's it? That's very easy." The Scientist then

folded the sleeves of his shirt, went and got some wet

mud /clay. He then told God, "Now I'm

ready". God replied, " No. No. Go get your own mud ".

Hari Aum !

October 22, 2001

Dear Silent Opposition, Some days when I

come to the club, I really wonder why you are here. If

'religion' and 'non-secularity' offends you so, why would

you go out of your way to involve yourself with a

group of people who are avowedly idealistic and

non-secular? No disrespect intended, this is genuine

question. I personally feel that it is highly impolite to

attend such a club and then to tell its members that

they they should reconsider their views, and ask them

not to speak of the concepts that they hold

dear! (I wonder: if they may not speak of them here, then

WHERE?) Yours in puzzlement, Padma

October 22, 2001

Greetings, Not sure I understand your query. Could you please clarify

[in simpler words ]

October 22, 2001

Greetings, I think the story misses the

point. It is not God Vs. Science at all. It is

idealism/illusion vs. truth and reality. Spiritualism and

religion vs the truth and reality of *this*

world. There is more need for action and reform that there is

for religion and spiritualism. Hence it is also

individualism verses society.

October 22, 2001

Greetings Padma, I come here to read and

understand the views of the other side of the spectrum, so

to speak. Please do not think that I come here to

impose my views on others or to cause any disrespect to

the other members. I once read a quote (forgot who

said it) that "only a fool and a dead man won't change

his views". I am not the latter [yet] and do not

wish to be the former. My quest is for different

ideas, different views and then try and explore the

social circumstances that gave birth to those ideas

(such as the different aspects of any religion,

etc.). I apologise if I hurt anyone's religious

beliefs. I made a reasonable assumption that, like me, other

would also like to continously evolve their views and

ideas. Maybe my assumtion is wrong. Lets us

say I have an idea. I discuss it with you. As a

result of that discussion, both of us are enriched. I

may modify my view, and you may also do the

same. In the end, both of us are benefitted. That is my

intention. The reason that I have started hanging-out here in

this group because unlike other groups (particularly

NGs), discussions here do not turn into personal

insults and slights. If I feel that ideas are not

being discussed in the spirit of knowledge and quest

for truth, and if the members are too dogmatic to

even hear about a different view of the world, then,

rest assured, I shall leave.

October 22, 2001

Blessed Self,

purplepadma Silentopposition's tone may be inappropriate occassionally,

but his

exhortation to continue to examine our beliefs is a message

from Brahman. We not only need to re-examine

our beliefs, we need to make sure that we are

following them ALL the time in thought, word as well as in

deed. And we need to develop a regular meditation

practice to bring us closer and closer to understanding

and becoming the Divinity that underlies those

beliefs. Hari Om Tat Sat omprem

October 22, 2001

Thanks my dear silentopposition for stirring up

the forum with your powerful logics (though i may not

agree with all of them). It is better to be an athiest

than to be a hypocritic spiritual. But I would

like to add here that the faults of Churches, do not

necessarily prove Christ was wrong...or actions of Talibaan

can not be a blot on Mohammed. The temples,

churches and mosques are run by ordinary human

beings...with all their faulty visions and corrosion.

Corruption is nothing but a natural phenomenon here.

Spritituality has nothing to do with bishops, priests or

Mullahs... though they are necessary too to start up the

thinking process. Spirituality is a thing to happen to an

individual...and the day one gets a little bit of taste of it, he

is able to translate the religions behind the

curtains of corrpution etc. Most of the great souls, like

christ, budha, guru Nanak, Kabir,Gandhi, mother terressa

etc. proved that churches/priests are not a necessary

part of spirituality. and Hinduism has

certainly an edge over other thoughts, as it works on the

very root of humanity. Hinduism is not controlled by

churches or Mullahas...and there is not one to use

Dictates. Even if one does not go to temple, or believe in

God one may be a Hindu...such is the beauty of this

religion, that it gives total freedom of thought to an

individual. And I must congratulate you on airing the

Hinduism thoughts of Karma in your post. Geeta almost

tells the same thing to do karma as u advised. I may

further like to comment on your post as follows

:- "First to clear-up a definition: dasa means a servant."

Not necessarily...When krishna bhaktas address

others, they use this word for them taking them as

servant of Krishna not of the individual. This is height

of selflessness not inferiority. " Work

is worship. Work is above all. It gives a person a

purpose in life-a reason to live." Thanks for

supporting the message of Gita. " The worker is never

paid his full dues. A huge [huge] chunk of the fruits

of your labour are appropriated by the blood-sucking

industralists and capitalists as their own profit" Seems

you are infatuated with communism...please read "Law

of survival of the fittest" by

Darwin... "Don't be misled by people who say there is a divine

truth, or that God provides for everyone" DO you think

you are providing for others or that way even for

your own self....seems you are quite young and have

not yet been subject to Nature's kicks...soon you

will see them and your ideas will change we wil

discuss it then. "Pull yourself together, man.

Religion is not your saviour. You are !!! " Thanks

for so beautifully explaning Vedanta philosophy of

Hindusim... Hope i did not offend you any way...if yes please

excuse me and continue SS btw you made

this id recently...only to participate here ??

October 22, 2001

Dear brother omprem, silentopposition's tone is

no more inappropriate than yours. We americans luv

outspokeness and forthrightness more than self-righteousness.

Do not take me wrong. Yu sound a little bit 'know it

all.' type. You are too rigid in your views. You taught

me a wrong prayer. Priest said there is no such

thing as Omprem. only Hariom. Is consciousness

the same thing as awareness? then our brother

silentopposition has more awareness than you. what is truth ? one

man's truth is another man's lie. There is nothing

absolute about truth. I have to go. This woman is

waiting for the computer. your friend

Sign In

karma

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