are souls have always existed?

[Guest guest]

It says in the Gita that there is never a time when our souls were not. They are said to be eternal and unborn. So does this mean we have always been conscious, separate individuals?

 

If I became enlightened today, would I have memories going back into infinity?

[Sephiroth]

 

It says in the Gita that there is never a time when our souls were not. They are said to be eternal and unborn. So does this mean we have always been conscious, separate individuals?

 

If I became enlightened today, would I have memories going back into infinity?

 

I think it is the other way around. I think we were UNCONSCIOUS.

 

The reason we are considered Conscious and Separate individuals is because our needs and desires are different. WHAT IF we had no desires and needs? What IF your existence is equal to mine? What IF we existed as ONE in Him as well?

 

We will not know till we have become Enlightened, do we?

[Guest guest]

aren't jivas in the brahmajyoti at least semi-conscious?

[Sephiroth]

 

aren't jivas in the brahmajyoti at least semi-conscious?

 

Who knows? Cannot answer till we get there, no?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

All forms of spiritual existince are full consciousness, sat chit ananda.

[Guest guest]

 

All forms of spiritual existince are full consciousness, sat chit ananda.

 

so in our "spiritual existence" before our fall into this material universe we were in this state of full consciousness? and we had been in this state of consciousness going back into the infinite past, until some desire caused us to fall down?

 

What I am trying to understand is IF Krsna is teaching in the Gita (when he says that we have always existed) THAT we have always existed as conscious beings??? This would mean if we could Awaken and Remember, we'd have memories going back into infinity?! Mind-blowing!

[Guest guest]

 

so in our "spiritual existence" before our fall into this material universe we were in this state of full consciousness? and we had been in this state of consciousness going back into the infinite past, until some desire caused us to fall down?

 

What I am trying to understand is IF Krsna is teaching in the Gita (when he says that we have always existed) THAT we have always existed as conscious beings??? This would mean if we could Awaken and Remember, we'd have memories going back into infinity?! Mind-blowing!

 

Hari OM

 

Don't try to go into details of advaithaic knowledge of Gita, before you become qualified for the knowledge (and save your mind from blowing)

 

When we existed as pure jiva then we are beyond space-time constraints (bhu-bhuva, suva, maha, Jana,...) we must exist at the "Jana" level which is beyond the Maha level constrained by space, time and ego. So when we "go back" to that level there is no time (either 1d, 2d or 3d) so there is no past, present and future and nothing to speak of memory.

 

The first and foremost instruction of Gita is to become a non-frutitive worker from the present frutitive worker.

 

A frutitive worker is a one who does work with an eye to its fruit always, while a non-frutititve worker does a work because ......... says so [ you can fill anything in the blanks, god, sastrhas, parents, teachers, husband/wife, friends... it does not matter what you put in those blanks only thing is that you work because ...... says so and with no consideration whatsoever to the end result of that work]

 

Once you become a fully non-frutitive worker, Krishna bestows the wisdom of you where you understand the full (universe, self and He), now you have a choice to become either a Gyanani (i.e., to loose your identity completely and sit like a mere witness) or a yogi-bhakta (continue to work but only for the sake of God with no consideration what that work will give you pleaseure or pain, hell or paradise)

 

Discussing about Gyana, bhakti and karma at this stage is like a first standard child thinking seriously whether he should become a doctor or engineer, unless you pass your qualifying exam, no point in considering what to become next or what lies in the future after that exam

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest 2,

Thanks for your post. Your post brings up many more questions.

 

But let me emphasize my original question in a very simple way.

 

Do Gaudiya Vaisnavas believe that our souls have always existed, as full-conscious entities?

 

Most religions teach that God or gods created our souls at a specific time. So when someone asks me what Gaudiya Vaisnavas believe about the creation of souls, should I tell them that we were not created but have always existed in conscious entities?

 

This is what I gather from the Gita, but want to be sure that this is what it's teaching. I don't want to misunderstand or misreprsent the Gita's teaching on this matter. Can someone knowledgable like jndas tell me if the Gita teaches that we have always existed as full conscious entities. In other words, does it deny creation of souls? Thanks.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Do Gaudiya Vaisnavas believe that our souls have always existed, as full-conscious entities?

 

If the question is about Gaudiyas, then yes, the soul is eternally conscious and personal.