Guest guest Report post Posted February 1, 2005 Respected Bhagavatas: I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age for performing Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly advise. I have heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only during 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to clarify if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. Thank you. Dasan, Vijayaraghavan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2005 Dear Bhagabatas: The Saastras prescribe that Upanayanam should be performed at "GarbhaashTamam". That is at 7 years of age (including Garbha vaasam, it will be 8 years). In the case of Brahmins, it can be done upto 16 years at the latest. For other two in the Traivarnikas (Kshatriyas and Vaisyas) there is some relaxation in the upper age limit. There is, however, no prohibition like odd years and even years etc. for performing Upanayanam. In any event, the earlier, the better. This is the position that I have been told in the "anushTaanam classes" in India. Hope this helps. Dasoham Anbil Ramaswamy ======================================================================= , "Vijay & Lalitha Venbakkam" <vijaylalli@r...> wrote: > I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age for performing Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly advise. I have heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only during 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to clarify if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. *************** Dear member, Many years ago I had the same question in respect of performing my son's 'upanayanam'. I consulted the revered U.Ve. Sri Mukkur Lakshminarasimhachariar and I still vividly remember his simple but logical advice: (1) The child should be old enough so as to be able to articulate clearly and repeat the 'gAyatri mantra' as it is ceremoniously uttered into his ear i.e. the child should have overcome lisping. (2) The child should also be so young that it is evident even incipient feelings of 'kAma' (i.e. the dawning of sexual awareness) have not yet taken seed inside his tender mind. Some boys do have a child's lisp ("mazhallai", in Tamil) even upto the age of 7 or 8. It is better to wait a while for him to outgrow the physical condition before performing "upanayanam". Some boys however, even at the age of 5 speak clearly. It's better the "upananayam" is performed at the earliest in such a case. In any case, however, the "upanayanam" should be performed well before the dawning of sexual awareness... whatever be the age. In the modern age, the very environment in which we live (movies, TV shows, books, magazines, billboards etc.) arouses vague sexual curiousity, even if not real awareness, amongst boys at a very tender age even. This is rather unfortunate indeed, but we can do little about it. Hence, it is all the more urgent that the "upanayanam" ceremony must be performed as early as possible in order to heed the 'sAstra' that says the 'gAyatri' must enter into a child's mind well before 'kAmA' takes root there. I performed my son's 'upanayanam' when he was 11 years of age. Hope my own experience is of some use to you. Thanks and regards, dAsan, Sudarshan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2005 Hello, I am not authority. But what i have observed all these years of my life, i perceive, that 7 has been an age for upanayanam. I might be wrong, but i am only repeating what i have observed. -- Best regards, Arvind arvind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2005 Dear Swamin, I will be much thankful to you if anyone could point out to any English or Tamil version of a commentary or upanyasam, which gives the meanings of Brahmopadesam function (and the various mantras) on any type of media? I would like to request someone to conduct a discourse here prior to my son's Brahmopadesam (one day before) so that people could understand the relevance of the function and the procedures. That way I could learn also!;-) Lakshminarasimhan With best regards ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Prof. V .Lakshmi Narasimhan, PhD Chair in Software Engineering School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS) University of Newcastle Callaghan, Newcastle NSW 2308 AUSTRALIA ( Voice : + 61 2 4921 6953 7 Fax : + 61 2 4921 6929 : Email : narasimhan URL: www.cs.newcastle.edu.au/~narasimhan È Cell : 0411 606 ??? --\ --\ ----------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE: This communication is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, take any action reliant on, or disclose any details of the information in this email to any other person or organisation. If you have received this email in error please notify me immediately. --\ --\ ----------------------- Joke of the Day: There are three kinds of people in the world - those who can count and those who cannot ! Thought of the Day: If you know what you are doing, then it cannot be research ! (BTW, I don't know what I am doing right now, so I must be doing research. So don't disturb me, will you?;-)!) Reality of the Future: "Honey, will you answer the television, I am watching the telephone !" Quote of the Day: In the absence of pain, pleasure will have no existence. Unless a man has felt the sun's intense heat, he cannot experience the pleasure of resting in the cool shade. In the absence of hunger, relish for food ceases to exist. Similarly a man feels the pleasures of prosperity because he has experienced adversity before, remembers it now and contrasts it with his present position. -- From Mahalakshmi Mahatmyam :: The Great Essentials on Prosperity ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:02:13 +0000 >Sudarshan K Madabushi <mksudarshan2002 > Re: Upanayanam question. >X-Originating-IP: 168.187.0.35 >X-Sender: mksudarshan2002 > >X-Mailer: Message Poster >Delivered-to: mailing list >Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner >X--Newman-Property: groups-email >X-Apparently- >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 >X--Profile: mksudarshan2002 >X-eGroups-Edited-By: ramanbil <Ramanbil >X-eGroups-Approved-By: ramanbil <Ramanbil via web; 03 Feb 2005 > 00:44:26 -0000 >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 >List-Un: <> >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > > > >Dear Bhagabatas: >The Saastras prescribe that Upanayanam should be performed at >"GarbhaashTamam". That is at 7 years of age (including Garbha vaasam, it >will be 8 years). > >In the case of Brahmins, it can be done upto 16 years at the latest. For >other two in the Traivarnikas (Kshatriyas and Vaisyas) there is some >relaxation in the upper age limit. > >There is, however, no prohibition like odd years and even years etc. for >performing Upanayanam. > >In any event, the earlier, the better. > > >This is the position that I have been told in the "anushTaanam classes" in >India. >Hope this helps. >Dasoham >Anbil Ramaswamy >======================================================================= >, "Vijay & Lalitha Venbakkam" ><vijaylalli@r...> wrote: > > I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age for performing >Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly >advise. I have heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only >during 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to clarify >if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. > > *************** > >Dear member, > >Many years ago I had the same question in respect of performing my >son's 'upanayanam'. I consulted the revered U.Ve. Sri Mukkur >Lakshminarasimhachariar and I still vividly remember his simple but >logical advice: > >(1) The child should be old enough so as to be able to articulate >clearly and repeat the 'gAyatri mantra' as it is ceremoniously >uttered into his ear i.e. the child should have overcome lisping. > >(2) The child should also be so young that it is evident even >incipient feelings of 'kAma' (i.e. the dawning of sexual awareness) >have not yet taken seed inside his tender mind. > >Some boys do have a child's lisp ("mazhallai", in Tamil) even upto >the age of 7 or 8. It is better to wait a while for him to outgrow >the physical condition before performing "upanayanam". Some boys >however, even at the age of 5 speak clearly. It's better >the "upananayam" is performed at the earliest in such a case. > >In any case, however, the "upanayanam" should be performed well >before the dawning of sexual awareness... whatever be the age. In the >modern age, the very environment in which we live (movies, TV shows, >books, magazines, billboards etc.) arouses vague sexual curiousity, >even if not real awareness, amongst boys at a very tender age even. >This is rather unfortunate indeed, but we can do little about it. >Hence, it is all the more urgent that the "upanayanam" ceremony must >be performed as early as possible in order to heed the 'sAstra' that >says the 'gAyatri' must enter into a child's mind well before 'kAmA' >takes root there. > >I performed my son's 'upanayanam' when he was 11 years of age. > >Hope my own experience is of some use to you. > >Thanks and regards, > >dAsan, >Sudarshan > > > > Links > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2005 Dar friend: It would be helpful if you quote the relevant PramaaNam for the odd numbers of age for performing Upanayanam that you have mentioned in your mail. My understanding is that there is no such stipulation in Saastras. Thanks in advance for clarification. Modearator =========================================================================== dharmasashtras are applicable to every one. there are no special dharmasashtras to sreevaishnavas. appropriate time for upanayanam is 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 which is maximum. shastra says Garbhashtama( for sreevaishnava and also non sree vaishnava) it means 8th year from garbhadhaana( ritual we do when we find pregnancy). according to shastra it is waste of money to do upanayana after 16 years ( as a special programme. can be done as part of marriage.) because he will not get savitri siddhi. please dont think i am not a vaishnava. i am a practicing vaishnava at least to my ability. deekshith --- Vijay & Lalitha Venbakkam <vijaylalli wrote: > > Respected Bhagavatas: > > I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age > for performing Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for > Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly advise. I have > heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only during > 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to > clarify if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. > > > Thank you. > > Dasan, > Vijayaraghavan. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > ===== Deekshith Parasaram PhD Hindu Temple and Cultural Center. 3818, 212 st SE Bothell wa ph. 425-482-9426 - The all-new My - What will yours do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2005 Respected Readers: In my unread experience with a child born and brought up in the States we waited until he was old enough to understand what exactly he was going to undergo. He needed to understand it as a right of passage. That not only was it expected of him as the son of a Shrivaishnava it was also his duty to recite the Gayatri regularly. I feel that because of this he wears his poonol to school everyday. He does not perform the Sandhyavandanam regularly. It is my fault because I do not push for it. I believe that everything comes as God regulates. Performing upanayanam in India with lots of children who have undergone/are undergoing the function makes it easier for the boys in India to have the upanayana early. Now he has seen his friends in US having their Bar Mitzvahs and he understands his position as a Hindu much better. He had just turned 12 when we had his Brahmopadesham this summer in Bangalore. As people who know me will tell you that I have no authority to give you any advice on so complicated a subject, I am only writing to tell you how it has helped our oldest son grow as a proud Hindu in a small US town with not too many Indians unlike NJ or NY or California or a temple. The closest temple for us is the Pittsburgh SVTemple which is almost 3 hours away!! Humbly Mytri Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2005 Dear Mr & Mrs. Venbakkam, I hope this helps - The word Upanayanam can be split into Upa and Nayanam. Upa means near and nayanam means going - that is the act of going to a teacher to learn. Grihyasutras prescribe the age for Upanayanam as eight years old at "GarbhaashTamam"(1 + 7 ) - which includes the period spent in the womb of the mother - that is Garbha vasam. So it is 7 years.The reason why the sutras prescribe the age for a Kshatriya at 11 and a Vaishya as 12 must be because in the ancient times the father was the guru in Brahmin household whereas the Kshatriya and Vaishya children had to leave home for their education , they could leave their house only when they were capable of taking care of themselves. I also read that Upanayanam is usually performed at the age of seven because till that age a child gets the benefits of the karmas of its parents and after that age it has to learn and perform karmas on its own. Srimathi Venkatachari Raghavan --- Vijay & Lalitha Venbakkam <vijaylalli wrote: > > Respected Bhagavatas: > > I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age > for performing Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for > Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly advise. I have > heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only during > 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to > clarify if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. > > > Thank you. > > Dasan, > Vijayaraghavan. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 4, 2005 Swamin(i)s, Here is an anecdote connected with brahmOpadesham and significance of palAsha kASHTam: Few dhEvathaas were discussing under a tree, on the gaayathree manthram saying this manthra is * thripadha gayathree, * ashtaaksharaa gaayathree, * chathurvigumsath aksharaani gaayathree etc. This means gaayathree manthram has three parts. One part has eight aksharaas or letters; in all there are 24 syllables in the manthram etc. The tree under which these dhEvathaas were talking was having circular leaves. When they were talking like this, the leaves suddenly changed themselves into three in one place on a sprout and three part leaves - [3 ilai oru kambil or oru koththil, oru ilaikku 3 kooRu]. the dhEvathaas discussing were taken by surprise on this sudden change. Since dhEvathaas said thripadhaa gaayathree – these leaves also changed into three, having three parts. That tree is the palaasa tree. The leaves are called dharvee, which we use in the homams and in our religious rites. The person who uses these dharvees will not hear 'amangala' words – meaning- the words that are inauspicious. Because it is connected to gaayathree. Since the tree had good hearing capacity the tree changed like this when the dhEvathaas were discussing. That is why a palaasa dhandam – a stick of palaasa tree is given to the brahmachari during the upanayanam and during the thalai aavaNi avittam. [upanayanam means leading]. The meaning for giving this palaasa stick to the brahmachaari boy is to signify he must also receive or have the capacity to receive the vEdha and the teachings from the guru like the palaasa tree which changed. (I found this as posted by Sriman Vasudevan m.g.) dAsan K.S. tatachar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 4, 2005 Dear Gopalan, Namaskarams. As far as I know Upanayanam means Upa - additional Nayanam means eye as it gives sight to look at the spiritual world it is known as Upanayanam. Please correct me if I am wrong. Adiyen Kannan "Dr.Gopalan Raghavan" <shriragh wrote: Dear Mr & Mrs. Venbakkam, I hope this helps - The word Upanayanam can be split into Upa and Nayanam. Upa means near and nayanam means going - that is the act of going to a teacher to learn. Grihyasutras prescribe the age for Upanayanam as eight years old at "GarbhaashTamam"(1 + 7 ) - which includes the period spent in the womb of the mother - that is Garbha vasam. So it is 7 years.The reason why the sutras prescribe the age for a Kshatriya at 11 and a Vaishya as 12 must be because in the ancient times the father was the guru in Brahmin household whereas the Kshatriya and Vaishya children had to leave home for their education , they could leave their house only when they were capable of taking care of themselves. I also read that Upanayanam is usually performed at the age of seven because till that age a child gets the benefits of the karmas of its parents and after that age it has to learn and perform karmas on its own. Srimathi Venkatachari Raghavan --- Vijay & Lalitha Venbakkam <vijaylalli wrote: > > Respected Bhagavatas: > > I'd. like to find out if there's an appropriate age > for performing Upanayanam & Brahmopadesam, for > Srivaishnava brahmachari's. Kindly advise. I have > heard the term "ottrai padai" (meaning only during > 'odd' years) mention by some friends and I wanted to > clarify if that's applicable for Srivaishnavas also. > > > Thank you. > > Dasan, > Vijayaraghavan. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! Sponsor Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy And Change His Life Learn More / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
