Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatas:

FOR YOUR INFORMATION

 

Here is a cutting from page 5c of Plain Dealer Newspaper of Cleveland, Ohio

dated 3rd may 2001:

Anbil Ramaswamy

===============================================================

Associated Press

 

SEATTLE - McDonald's Corp. has been accused in a lawsuit of using beef fat

in the preparation of french fries more than a decade after saying it would

cook its fries in vegetable oil.

 

The law suit for unspecified damages was filed on behalf of two Hindus who

don't eat meat and one Non-Hindu vegetarian Tuesday in King County Superior

Court by attorney Harish Bharati, who said he believes the case is the first

such suit in the United States.

 

He asked that the case be certified as a class action on behalf of any

vegetarian who ate McDonald's fries after 1990 in the belief that they

contained no meat.

 

The law suit says McDonald's "intentionally failed to publicly disclose its

continued use of beef tallow in the {french fry} cooking process under the

guise of 'natural flavor'"

 

McDonald's announced in 1990 that its restaurants no longer would use beef

fat in making french fries and that it would use only pure vegetable oil.

 

The Oak Brook, III. based fast-food chain released a written statement

yesterday saying it never claimed the fries it sells in the United States

are vegetarian. The statement said the recipe for the fries uses ' a

miniscule trace of beef flavoring, not tallow".

 

Tallow is essentially shortening made from beef fat. McDonald's adds a small

amount of beef extract while potatoes are being cooked, the company said.

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[Guest guest]

>"murali sampath" <ingit

>"murali sampath" <ingit

><Ramanbil

>Re: Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

>Tue, 8 May 2001 16:33:46 -0400

>

>Dear Sri Ram Anbil Avl,

>

>A few observations from my side.

>

>1. The very Oil that is used to fry French fries, is also used to fry

>Chicken Patties, Chicken Nuggets, etc. This is done many restaurants in USA

>including in those owned by Indians.

>

>2. Few years back I verified with the Manufacturer of Dannon Yogurt and

>confirmed that they add Gelatin to solidify the Yoghurt. Information about

>this is not given in the container. I then followed it up with the FDA

>office but of no avail.

>

>Things like Cough Syrup, Chocolates, and more also may have animal extracts

>in them.

>

>Hence the above is just for information purposes since some people may not

>be aware of. Ofcourse it is for one to follow what is most comfortable to

>them.

>

>Regards,

>

>Murali

[Guest guest]

Just to add to these comments, typically, cheese and yogurt have rennet and

gelatin respectively. But, the label typically says whether cow's rennet or

microbial rennet is used. Similarly for gelatin (kosher/non kosher or

halal/non halal) in yogurts. So, we can try to avoid to some extent by

reading the labels.

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

Jayshree Narasimhan

AT&T Singapore

+65-379 6912 (O)

+65-379 6886 (F)

[Guest guest]

So, we can try to avoid to some extent by

reading the labels.

Another good practice is to ruthlessly question the store employees regarding

the ingredients, this has really paid off in a number of smaller more health

oriented food chains like Tader Joe's where upon request they will give a sheet

with a full list of all the "derivatives & added ingredients and what there

natural source is.

Beware the unspesific "natural flavor" found in many foods it is most often

dried cow blood or animal remains or one sort or another.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

It behooves me as to how a sincere spiritually aspiring vegetarian vaishnava

could be eating

in such a nefarious place like McDonalds ! In the worst possible scenario,

should we find no bhagavad prasadam to be had, we should at the least eat in

a decent fully vegetarian restaurant. but to eat in a place like McDonalds

or Kentucky Fried Chicken, clearly is out of the question. It is like going

to a brothel district to look for a chaste bride ! knowing well

that a place like McDonalds is famous for its meat and worse still

beef-oriented food, to still go there and eat is a foolish risk and one

thoroughly deserves what one gets should such an occurrence take place. More

than blame the restaurant chain, it is more prudent to blame these customers

who given their dietary regulations should know better ! i think it is time

we review our eating habits properly because Bhagavan clearly states in the

Gita what tamasic, rajasic and sattvika foodstuffs are and how they affect

our consciousness. social reality today is merely one of naive compromise

steeped purely in material convenience and naivete devoid of any moral or

spiritual backbone. we have to safeguard ourselves with the later on the

basis of shastra, not commit the former. vaishnavas should be fighters when

it comes to uncompromisingly following scriptural principles, not the

reverse.

 

dasan

r. jai simman

singapore

[Guest guest]

>RGarlandG

>

>

>Re: Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

>Thu, 10 May 2001 11:52:50 EDT

 

 

> > So, we can try to avoid to some extent by

> > reading the labels.

 

 

Another good practice is to ruthlessly question the store employees

regarding the ingredients, this has really paid off in a number of smaller more

health oriented food chains like Tader Joe's where upon request they will give a

sheet with a full list of all the "derivatives & added ingredients and what

there natural source is.

 

Beware the unspesific "natural flavor" found in many foods it is most often

dried cow blood or animal remains or one sort or another.

 

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[Guest guest]

Sri:

Dear SwAmin,

Very well said Sir!

 

DAsan

VedAntam SrinivAsarAghavan Ayyangar

Singapore

 

----Original Message Follows----

"Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy" <rjsimman

 

<>

Re: Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

Thu, 10 May 2001 21:49:21 +0800

 

Hare Krishna

 

It behooves me as to how a sincere spiritually aspiring vegetarian vaishnava

could be eating

in such a nefarious place like McDonalds ! In the worst possible scenario,

should we find no bhagavad prasadam to be had, we should at the least eat in

a decent fully vegetarian restaurant. but to eat in a place like McDonalds

or Kentucky Fried Chicken, clearly is out of the question. It is like going

to a brothel district to look for a chaste bride ! knowing well

that a place like McDonalds is famous for its meat and worse still

beef-oriented food, to still go there and eat is a foolish risk and one

thoroughly deserves what one gets should such an occurrence take place. More

than blame the restaurant chain, it is more prudent to blame these customers

who given their dietary regulations should know better ! i think it is time

we review our eating habits properly because Bhagavan clearly states in the

Gita what tamasic, rajasic and sattvika foodstuffs are and how they affect

our consciousness. social reality today is merely one of naive compromise

steeped purely in material convenience and naivete devoid of any moral or

spiritual backbone. we have to safeguard ourselves with the later on the

basis of shastra, not commit the former. vaishnavas should be fighters when

it comes to uncompromisingly following scriptural principles, not the

reverse.

 

dasan

r. jai simman

singapore

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srirangasri-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

What one should do or not is one's personal choice. I don't think it is

essential for anyone to advocate what one should be eating or doing

irrespective whether he or she is a Vaishnaivite or whatever.

 

There are some vegetarians ( atleast in the USA and Germany ) who believe

that Cow's milk, butter, ghee, etc are afterall an animal by-product and so

they do not consume these. They also do not wear any leather shoes or jacket

since this again is an animal by-product. Does any vegetarian Vaishnava have

an answer for this? If you look back at our Shastras or question our elders

regarding the usage of Milk, the only answer you may get is "Paal

saapidarthil Nishedham illai" ( nothing wrong in drinking milk )! It's for

you and me to buy that.

 

Again there's yeast involved in the milk to buttermilk process, bread, idly

and more. So where should one draw a line in terms of what to eat that will

truly render us a vegetarian? Atleast I think it's a matter of personal

choice - be it French fries at MacDonald's or Milk at Taj or Dosa at

Connemara or wherever.

 

Folks, let's not debate nor lose our sanity over this debatable subject that

has already been done a zillions of times by others elsewhere. I think Sri.

Anbil Ramaswamy had only written about the Beef content in McDonald's french

fries for awareness sake. Nowhere does he nor the others insist what one

should be eating.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I think what everyone is trying to say is that we should only eat prashadam,

that is

food sanctified after offering to the Lord. So whatever has been offered to

the

Lord we can safely eat and as murali says it is a matter of personal choice.

if you buy fries from mcDonalds and offer it to "perumal", then I guess it

is safe to

eat it.

 

regards

 

Sriram,Balaraman

 

 

 

>

> murali sampath [ingit]

> Friday, May 11, 2001 8:50 AM

>

> Re: Re: Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

>

>

> What one should do or not is one's personal choice. I don't think it is

> essential for anyone to advocate what one should be eating or doing

> irrespective whether he or she is a Vaishnaivite or whatever.

>

> There are some vegetarians ( atleast in the USA and Germany ) who believe

> that Cow's milk, butter, ghee, etc are afterall an animal

> by-product and so

> they do not consume these. They also do not wear any leather

> shoes or jacket

> since this again is an animal by-product. Does any vegetarian

> Vaishnava have

> an answer for this? If you look back at our Shastras or question

> our elders

> regarding the usage of Milk, the only answer you may get is "Paal

> saapidarthil Nishedham illai" ( nothing wrong in drinking milk )! It's for

> you and me to buy that.

>

> Again there's yeast involved in the milk to buttermilk process,

> bread, idly

> and more. So where should one draw a line in terms of what to eat

> that will

> truly render us a vegetarian? Atleast I think it's a matter of personal

> choice - be it French fries at MacDonald's or Milk at Taj or Dosa at

> Connemara or wherever.

>

> Folks, let's not debate nor lose our sanity over this debatable

> subject that

> has already been done a zillions of times by others elsewhere. I

> think Sri.

> Anbil Ramaswamy had only written about the Beef content in

> McDonald's french

> fries for awareness sake. Nowhere does he nor the others insist what one

> should be eating.

>

>

>

>

> Srirangasri-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

SrI:

SrImathE vEdAnta guravE namaH

 

Sri Murali,

 

murali sampath <ingit wrote:

> What one should do or not is one's personal choice.

I don't think it is

> essential for anyone to advocate what one should be

eating or doing

> irrespective whether he or she is a Vaishnaivite or

whatever.

 

I don't know whether you have ever heard about "AahAra

niyamam" of SwAmi vEdanta dEsika, the foremost among

the vEdic authorities and Vaishnavites. This grantham

of SwAmi deals with what kinds of food that a

VaishnavA can eat and what are shunned from eating.

Please read it before advocationg your personal

beliefs and philosophies to the public.

 

Here is a translation of 8th pasuram of AhAra niyamam.

 

(Translation is done by Sriman

Dileepan SwAmi).

 

[8] forbidden foods continued...

- Calcium (suNNaambu) extracted from sea shells

- bubbles and froth from water

- foods that are not offered to our Lord

- harvested from the stems that were previously

harvested

- foods avoided by learned persons with pure heart

 

 

> Atleast I think it's a matter of personal

> choice - be it French fries at MacDonald's or Milk

> at Taj or Dosa at Connemara or wherever.

 

Yes, it is just your thought. Not a VaishnavA's

thought. I don't think McDonalad's, Taj or Connemara

serve the foods offered to Sriman Narayana.

 

> Folks, let's not debate nor lose our sanity over

> this debatable subject that

> has already been done a zillions of times

> by others elsewhere.

 

Invariably, all the achAryas icluding GeethAchAryan

Sri Krishna, recommends sAtvic food for vaishnavAs.

Where then is the place for debate

on this subject?

 

> Nowhere does he nor the others insist what one

> should be eating.

 

Again, you propbably never heard our SadhAchArya's

preaching.

 

For instance, once in one of his tele-upanyasams, His

Holiness SrImad Poundarikapuram Andavan swami advised

vaishnavas NOT to eat anything that is not offered to

our Lord Sriman Narayana. "If one eats anything that

is not offered to the Lord is verily a theif", he

further added.

 

Our Srivaishnava acharyAs, unlike other sampradaic

achAryAs, follow vEdic commandments

(which are verily the commanments of Lord Sriman

NArayana) 100% as it is. They are the

best examples for a vaishnava to follow. It is in the

best interest of every prapanna to safeguard his

consciousness, nay, his chasteness to his Husband,

Sriman nArAyanA, by trying to not eat

any food that is not offered to Him.

 

Please do not try to preach your personal beliefs in

the Vaishnava lists, which can hinder the

improvements of novice Vaishnavas like aDiyEn.

 

I would request "practise_first_and_preach_next" SrI

VaishvAs like our dear Sri Anand sWami, etc, to write

more on the importance of AhAra niyamam.

 

 

aDiyEn,

LakshmikumAr.

 

SrImad azhagiya singar thiruvadigalE saranam!

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

Dandavat pranams

 

well regarding dietary regulations being a personal choice, yes anything in

life is personal !

but if we break the proper rules for cultured life, then we cannot qualify

for spiritual advancement.

a child may do as he likes. no problem ! but if he is to become successful

in school, he has to do well

and pass his exams ! there is no "buts" about it ! likewise, if we say that

anything goes in the name of personal opinion, then why call ourselves

vaishnavas or anything else ? best to revel in sunya ! a vaishnava by

definition is one who abides by the shastras given by the lord ! and he

lives his life as per the rules and regulations given by shastra.

 

as to why milk is okay, it is not that animal food is bad and vegetable is

good or vice versa ! that is not the vedic idea. vedic idea is how a man who

is in goodness should procur foodstuffs which are healthy and promote

spiritual development. to this end, anything related to himsa not justified

by shastra as a legitimate and reaction-free action is hatya or violent and

thus sinful.

 

even vegetarian food eaten without offering to the lord is sin ! therefore

the lord says in gita that anything that is not offered in yajna is actually

sin and eating such food is verily eating sin, even if it is vegetarian,

what to speak of gross butchery for the pleasure of the palate or anything

that provides a conducive environment for such slaughter ! and the lord

calls for sattvik offerings only, not mamsah !

 

dyutam (gambling), paanam (intoxicating), striya (illicit sex life) and suna

(animal slaughter) are all labelled as the pillars of sinful life in the

bhagavatam. manu samhita also points out that 6 persons are implicated in

sinful life in the obtainment of meat - beginning from the person who kills

right up to the person who transports, one who sells, one who buys, one who

cooks and one who eats. so anyone encoouraging in this way as a mcdonald's

patron will have to take the bad reaction.

 

foolish men not well-versed in knowledge take animal food in the form of

blood.

intelligent ones take it in the form of milk. that is vedic idea. also if

the cow is not milked, its udder will get heavy and the cow will die because

1/10 of the milk is sufficient for the calf. 9/10 by nature's provision is

meant for human consumption.

 

so vegetarian and non vegetarian is not the question here. the point is how

to take non vegetarian food that is essential for us in a cultured

genetlemanly way because vaishnava means perfect gentleman ! of course, in

the name of personal opinion, one can also go to the pits of decadent life,

that is another thing ! we are assuming that this list is for those who want

to progress nicely in sad dharma.

 

so it is not a question of personal choice but it is a MUST if one wants

spiritual advancement.

 

also, with all due respect to the elders you consulted who gave a muddled

answer, there is certainly more spiritual and philosophical input from

shastra for this if only you would venture well to research. go raksha is

described in the gita by the lord himself as the svabhava of vaishyas -

krshi goraksha vanijyam - agriculture, cow protection and trade - so this is

the economic basis for cultured economic stability. not the butchery of

animals, eating carcasses or supporting that eating in indirect ways or the

eating of eggs which are nothing but the menstrual discharge of the female

hen in the unfertilised form and potential life in the fertilised form.

cultured men we call ourselves !? hare krishna !!!!

 

if we take the guidance of shastra which understands and presents the Lord's

inconceivable adjustments for the welfare of the jivas, we are safe and

happy. on the contrary, if we try to speculate as to what is pure and good

and what is bad by way of personal opinion and speculation in someone else's

kingdom, all that is left is mayhem, thievary and very bad karmic reaction

which cannot be nulled by any claim to personal preference.

 

hare krishna

 

dasan,

r. jai simman

singapore

[Guest guest]

--- murali sampath <ingit wrote:

> What one should do or not is one's personal choice.

> I don't think it is

> essential for anyone to advocate what one should be

> eating or doing

> irrespective whether he or she is a Vaishnaivite or

> whatever.

 

I don't think it is a personal choice if one wants to

work toward liberation or be in a satvik mode. All the

Satvik Puranas again and again stress the importance

of vegetarianism. First, we have to offer food to

Sriman Narayana before we eat it. Bhagavan accepts

only Vegetarian food.

> There are some vegetarians ( atleast in the USA and

> Germany ) who believe

> that Cow's milk, butter, ghee, etc are afterall an

> animal by-product and so

> they do not consume these. They also do not wear any

> leather shoes or jacket

> since this again is an animal by-product. Does any

> vegetarian Vaishnava have

> an answer for this?

 

Yes the answer is that what ever we do we should act

in love for and pleasing to Sri Baghavan. As Lord

Krishna, He has shown that he loves milk. We are

Vegetarian because Bhagavan likes only Vegetarian food

including milk products. Puranas illustrate this. For

example, Adithi worshipped Lord Vishnu for one year,

only accepting milk and no other food. At the end of a

year long aradhana with milk, Lord Vishnu was pleased

and appeared before her and later was born to Adithi

as Lord Vamana.

>If you look back at our Shastras

> or question our elders

> regarding the usage of Milk, the only answer you may

> get is "Paal

> saapidarthil Nishedham illai" ( nothing wrong in

> drinking milk )! It's for

> you and me to buy that.

 

Lord Brahma initially created Devas. When the Devas

were hungry, they went to Brahma. Brhama then created

SURABHI (the sacred cow) and asked the Devas to drink

cow's milk to satisfy the hunger.

 

> Again there's yeast involved in the milk to

> buttermilk process, bread, idly

> and more. So where should one draw a line in terms

> of what to eat that will

> truly render us a vegetarian? Atleast I think it's a

> matter of personal

> choice - be it French fries at MacDonald's or Milk

> at Taj or Dosa at

> Connemara or wherever.

 

It is not the matter of achoice if one wnats to be a

Vaishnava. Cow's milk constitutes a complete food that

saves humans. Therefore, cow is like a mother. Killing

or eating anything from the cow (other than the milk

or milk products) is like killing one's mother or

eating mother's flesh.

 

Narender Reddy

reddynp

 

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

Looks to me like most of you missed the point in my earlier message. I do

not contradict the shastras and agamas nor what most of you have written

about vegetarianism. Matter of fact I myself am a vegetarian. I do not eat

at McDonald's nor french fries or meat. If only those of you who wrote back,

cared to read my first posting on this topic, you would have noticed that I

had let be known that Dannon Yogurt contains Gelatin and that I contacted

the FDA regarding this. I would not have wasted my time calling Dannon and

the FDA if Gelatin was not there in the yogurt.

 

All that I was trying to point out was that it is for one to decide what

they want to eat, when to eat, what to eat and where to eat. I never said

that one should not follow or learn what's in the scriptures or the vedas

and more. When I wrote it is a "matter of personal choice", I meant that it

is for the individual to decide whether they want to read, listen and follow

what our respective elders, scholars and others have given to us. This is

akin to grooming our kids - telling them what to do and not, with a hope

that when they grow up they will have a nice life. We strive and try to

discipline them. Beyond this we pray to the almighty that our kids take to

the right path in life. We make all efforts by caring for them and showing

them the right path, just like our Acharyas lead us. But the point here is,

even despite parents advices and teachings, if the kids go out and choose

their own life style, it is they who made that choice. We did our best but

the choice was theirs. Our influences was only to help them make a better

choice. But eventually what they chose remained a decision made by them. You

and me can only influence them but the final decision is theirs. Likewise,

we have the Shastras, the scriptures, our Acharyas, Gurus, elders and more

all pointing to how we should lead our lives, what we should eat, what we

need to wear for the temple, what we can do to help others, and so on, which

you may be knowing much more than I do. Whether one wants to follow these or

not is something that the individual decides. And this person shoulders the

responsibility for having made such a decision. By this I do not mean to say

that no one should be advised or helped or guided. It would be wonderful to

learn all great values and practise these. One may even be willing to listen

and learn all these but may end up not following them. It's his or her

decision.

 

Learned friends, I do find some of you getting offended for no reason at

all. Your outbursts! Does it help you?

[Guest guest]

It has been very interesting reading different

viewpoints presented by various learned people in this

group. (I do not tout myself as a very knowledegeable

person in the sastras vis-a-vis eating habits of a

vaishnava.)

 

Many things have been taboo for vaishnavas. But, times

are changing; and many of us have taken the liberty to

stretch the limits and cross the boundaries into

previously untreaded area. Some of us seem to have

also modified the tenets to suit our (today's) needs.

 

One which immediately comes to mind is crossing the

indian shores which many of the learned people have

said was taboo. (I am sure many will argue for this.

But that is not the intent of this mail). Many of us

do so in search of employment/livelihood.

 

In foreign places, at times it is very difficult to

find "bhagavad prasadam" or "a decent fully vegetarian

restaurant". (A decent fully vegetarian restaurant is

not easy to find in the US). I am sure many of us have

faced this situation before. A McDonald's or a Burger

King seemed to be the answer "to satisfy hunger" (in

the event of not getting fruits at the minimum.) How

long can a person go without food? And fries (until

recently) meant just potatoes.

 

Sri. Sudarsan has raised some very thought provoking

questions regarding silk, pearls etc. I have been

asked many a time whether there is not a double

standard in my vegetarianism - drinking milk, eating

milk products, wearing products made from

animals/insects etc. Can the learned members of this

forum provide some feedback on this or at least point

to where such information could be found?

 

Lastly, I am sure this forum was initiated for members

to present various views and learn more about our

tradition and culture. Of course, there are bound to

be differences and some people's viewpoints which

others think as taboo. But that is NO reason to ask

them to curb their views. It is within us to gain

whatever we can from this forum.

 

My $0.02.

 

Sriram

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna !

 

Food in order to be fit for offering to the Lord, must be cooked with

devotion by a Vaishnava !

We cannot simple take vegetarian food already cooked by a non-devotee and

then offer

it to Narayana and claim it to be prasadam ! We simply cannot speculate in

this manner.

 

Prasadam must be prepared as per shastric codes, not our speculation or

whims ! even a shivaite cooking cannot be taken as prasadam because it is

offered to a devata without first being offered to the Lord ! that is why we

do not even take the food offered to the devata in a demigod temple !

because they do not have the capacity to remove sins without the atma

antaryami sriman narayanan's blessings. then what to speak of food prepared

by an avaishnava ?!

 

the point is that one has to cook the food with devotion (only authorised

food that is), and offer it to the lord in a very personal manner, not just

mentally but actually doing it because our entire vedic culture is based on

seeing the Lord as a real person with whom to relate to. and then partake of

the remnants as bhagavad prasadam. so long we remain lazy in this matter, we

have to admit that we are the ones who are lazy, not that the rules are

rigid or that we can compromise and pass off defiled food prepared by cow

slaughterers as bhagavad prasadam !!!!

 

regarding the killing of silkworm for silk, etc. we must first understand

one thing. a vaishnava is not interested in mundane non-violence ! his idea

of violence and non-violence is based on shastra pramanam. this world is

created by the lord and He has made it clear regarding that which is bona

fide and that which is not. the use of silk and honey are authorised as good

and pure and that there is no harm is taking them. if silk is used in deity

worship and honey for the lord's abhishek or offering, there is nothing

wrong at all since the lord is pleased by these things and if we are to use

these thereafter as prasadam, that is best. this may seem contrary to logic

and pratyaksham since we see killing taking place. but shastra has given the

green light which means that the intended use is fulfilled and hence since

shastra comes from the lord and is perfect, no entity involved in this

business from the human to the silkworms or bees, suffer any bad reaction.

the purpose of things in creation is sometimes inconceivable to the jiva and

therefore it is best to take the shastric guidance. otherwise by our own

speculated moral platform we would only become lost ! the lord says clearly

in the Gita that one who shirks off shastra and acts whimsically does not

achieve any siddha, sukha or parama gati in this life or the next and this

applies even in the matter of determining what is right and wrong, what is

violence and what is not. in matters authorised by shastra as perfectly

proper, the entity that is killed achieves a better birth. we may also say

that destroying trees to print books on vaishnavam is also killing but

no --- by so doing, the trees are benefitted and they return back to the

lord or may get a better birth. but animal slaughter for food or

unnecessary killing apart from these is seen as sin and therefore when the

lord Himself has deemed so, we cannot speculate but must tow the line.

otherwise for breaching the rules, we have to take heavy karmic reaction.

 

so we are not interested in vegetarianism or meat. we are interested in

following the codes given by the Lord. that is vaishnavism ! otherwise we

will speculate and say milk is bad or milk is sin, egg is okay, etc, onion

is good and so is coffee and tea --- these are all speculations based on

fulfilling the palate's demands, not the Lord's ! so best to take advice

from the Lord Himself and do as necessary.

 

Hare Krishna

 

dasan,

R. Jai Simman

Singapore

[Guest guest]

Sriram wrote it right. Our shastras tell us that we should not cross our

Indian shores but still we are in Singapore, USA and the far corners of the

world. Many may be aware of this or perhaps some may not. Nevertheless,

will all us desis return to our country when we get to know this?

 

We know that the shastras forbid us from going overseas, eating meat,

consuming alcohol, ................. but what we end up doing is a matter of

your choice. A choice that we chose knowingly or unknowingly. Interestinlgy,

at some point we all draw a line at some point as to what we want to do,

what our priorities are, where we want to go, etc.

 

My thoughts are directed at statements such as "It behooves me as to how a

sincere spiritually aspiring vegetarian vaishnava could be eating in such a

nefarious place like McDonalds !" or the one "knowing well that a place like

McDonalds is famous for its meat and worse still beef-oriented food, to

still go there and eat is a foolish risk". With due respects to the Author's

views, if one turns around and questions why is the author in "Singapore"

while our shastras advocate not to go overseas, I would say it's a matter of

choice. The author's choice. It's this choice that I am trying to delineate.

A person may be knowing a lot about vegetarianism and dietary regime but yet

choose to head off to McDonalds out of his choice.

 

In my earlier email wherein I had written "let's not debate this since it

has already been debated a zillion times in other forums", I tried to convey

a sense that it may not be in our best interest to hang onto such issues

since it would lead us to nowhere. By this I mean, we should not indulge in

mudslinging or castigating someone who visits a McDonalds or a Connemara.

It's simply his or her choice and let's leave it at that.

 

Rest assured, that I am not saying that one should not learn nor find out

about what the shastras have for us, nor that anyone should abstain from

writing more about AahAra niyamam or more. It's good to know and read all

that our learned folks are contributing to this forum. The goal should be

continue in the same spirit as opposed to making judgemental values. Be it

me or you or anyone.

[Guest guest]

Namaskaram,

 

I agree with Sriman Murali Sampath that what one eats is matter of

personal choice. In the Gita the Lord says, "offer all that you do and

eat." He does not put any conditions like no MacDonald french fries

etc.. Ours is a religion of upadesa not commandments.

 

Someone those outside sri sampradaya have no reason lecturing us,

considering that their original motive in participating in this forum

is to learn Sri Vaisnava theology. Soon we will have the likes of the

Talibans and Fundamental Baptist instructing us on what to eat and

offer God.

 

First, I like to clarify that the term "demigods" was coined by

Prabhupada. This word he 'borrowed' from Greek mythology and

'mis-used' it to refer to the devas. The term demigod is only

applicable to someone like Arjuna.

 

On the issue of mental offering, there is a story in the Srimad

Bhagavatam, where a rishi mentally prepares an offering for the Lord.

The rishi puts his finger into maenatlly visualised preparation and

gets his fingers burnt. This story is an illustration on the power of

an offering done mentally.

 

On the issue of sattvic and non-sattvic etc. Hitler was a vegetarian

but he killed millions of Jews, and minorities like homosexuals,

gipsies etc. The leaders of a world famous Krishna cult, are/were

'pure vegetarian' who only partook bhagavad prasadam prepared

according to 'shastric code'. But did that prevent them from molesting

young children and having sexual affairs with their female and male

disciples (which are still very rampant in that movement). Did their

consciousness change from eating bhagavad prasadam?

 

On the issue of killing silk worms and insects ....blah blah. Our sri

vaisnava acaryas have not included insect/worms etc in the category of

sentient beings, and for practical reason we do not try and emulate

the Jainism concept of ahimsa.

 

Rules and regulations are used by some 'groups' as a means to achieve

the end Goal - Sriman Narayana. But for sri vaisnavas the means and

the end is one and the same. Acknowledging, that we are not capable of

following all these rules and regulations of bhakti yoga, our alvars

and acaryas have showed us the easy path, Prappatti, as taught by Lord

Krishna Himself in the Gita.

 

Adiyen

 

Manohar Ramanuja dasanudasan

[Guest guest]

Sri Raamajayam

SrimathE GopAla DEsika MahA DEsikAya Namaha

 

Just to add to the addition of Smt.Jayshree Narasimhan,

Kosher or Halal does not mean Vegetarian. Kosher or Halal is a Jewish or

Islamic sanctified way of food(PrasAdham in their sense), which is deemed fit

for consumption. Kosher Gelatin could very well be from Beef. Same with Cheese

cultures saying microbial rennet, it could very well be microbes grown on meat,

if not intestines of cows(rennet). If someone is fond of Cheese, speciality

stores like Wholefoods carry Cheese made with Vegetable enzymes instead of meat

grown cultures/microbes. Another Sri Vaishnava in Singapore recently

discovered that the browning in some bakery products is achieved with some

coating of animal products. Same with many Tacos flavoured with Lard in US for

taste enhancement. Same with MSG, Ajimoto stuff. Bone products used in

tooth-paste and even in seemingly innocent refined sugar we are so fond of. The

list is endless.

 

THE SOLUTION - As Sri.Jai Simman and Sri.Hari outlined, we should look for our

traditional recourse, ie. following the Parama Vaidika Matham and the abundance

of literature that it provides us(through Acharya Granthas like Aahaara

Niyamanam of Swami Desikan). Even while accepting this material life, we

should try to make a sincere effort to find traditional alternatives.

 

AdiyEn noticed quite a lot of threads on this topic, AdiyEn would pray that we

avoid digressing into "Vegetarianism defined in the western sense ..Ahimsaa,

silk sarees et al", and keep to the main topic on McDonalds, if at all there is

something more to discuss on a related thread.

 

AdiyEn Sri Ramanuja Dasan,

 

Sudarsana Dasosmi

 

 

Narasimhan, Jayshree [jayshree.narasimhan]

Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:47 PM

''

RE: Re: Beware of Beef in McDonald's french fries

[Guest guest]

SrI:

SrImathE rAmAnujAya namaH

SrImathE vEdAnta guravE namaH

 

namO nArAyaNA!

 

SrI Manohar,

 

You opined:

> I agree with Sriman Murali Sampath that what one

> eats is matter of

> personal choice. In the Gita the Lord says, "offer

> all that you do and

> eat." He does not put any conditions like no

> MacDonald french fries

> etc.. Ours is a religion of upadesa not

> commandments.

 

No one is born into any religion, whether it is

Srivaishnavam or anything else. Only when one accepts

the "upadesa" of the preceptors of the religion "as

commandments" does he / she become a follower of that

religion.

 

As far as a Sri Vaishnavam is concerned, the Supreme

Lord comes down as AchAryAs and gives upadesam to

those who are sincere. It is upto one to take the

upadesams as commandments or not; Yes it's a matter of

personal choice. But onething - when you don't accept

the commandments of Sriman Narayana (or SrI vaishnava

AcharyAs) you are not deemed to be called as a Sri

Vaishnava.

 

You opined:

> Someone those outside sri sampradaya have no reason

> lecturing us,

> considering that their original motive in

> participating in this forum

> is to learn Sri Vaisnava theology. Soon we will have

> the likes of the

> Talibans and Fundamental Baptist instructing us on

> what to eat and

> offer God.

>

 

Whatever SrI Jai Simman said in regards with eating

prasadam is in line with SrI Vaishnava AchAryas'

upadEsams. Hence there is no reason for you / me to

discourage him or the likes of him to write in this

forum. If he were to advocate something that is not

inline with our philosophy, then its a different

story.

 

You opined:

> First, I like to clarify that the term "demigods"

> was coined by

> Prabhupada. This word he 'borrowed' from Greek

> mythology and

> 'mis-used' it to refer to the devas. The term

> demigod is only

> applicable to someone like Arjuna.

>

 

Pray, what would be the correct term for devAs then?

When you can borrow the english word "God" to equate

with BhagavAn Sriman NarAyaNa, while the word God in

noway can be equal to "BhagavAn", I don't think there

is anything wrong in using the word "demigod" for

devAs.

 

You opined:

> On the issue of mental offering, there is a story in

> the Srimad

> Bhagavatam, where a rishi mentally prepares an

> offering for the Lord.

> The rishi puts his finger into maenatlly visualised

> preparation and

> gets his fingers burnt. This story is an

> illustration on the power of

> an offering done mentally.

>

> On the issue of sattvic and non-sattvic etc. Hitler

> was a vegetarian

> but he killed millions of Jews, and minorities like

> homosexuals,

> gipsies etc. The leaders of a world famous Krishna

> cult, are/were

> 'pure vegetarian' who only partook bhagavad prasadam

> prepared

> according to 'shastric code'. But did that prevent

> them from molesting

> young children and having sexual affairs with their

> female and male

> disciples (which are still very rampant in that

> movement). Did their

> consciousness change from eating bhagavad prasadam?

>

 

Your kudharkAs (illogical arguments) can only be

considered under pure "Sectarianism".

 

You opined:

> On the issue of killing silk worms and insects

> ....blah blah. Our sri

> vaisnava acaryas have not included insect/worms etc

> in the category of

> sentient beings, and for practical reason we do not

> try and emulate

> the Jainism concept of ahimsa.

 

Can some learned SrI Vaishnava scholars clarify if

insects/worms are not considered as sentinent beings

by our AchAryAs?

 

>

> Rules and regulations are used by some 'groups' as a

> means to achieve

> the end Goal - Sriman Narayana. But for sri

> vaisnavas the means and

> the end is one and the same. Acknowledging, that we

> are not capable of

> following all these rules and regulations of bhakti

> yoga, our alvars

> and acaryas have showed us the easy path, Prappatti,

> as taught by Lord

> Krishna Himself in the Gita.

 

While I agree with this point by you, it is not

written in its correct context. If you were to think

eating in McDonalds or Steak House is allowed for a

prapanna, I am compelled to write this:

 

Prapatti is not an escape for not following the rules

of ShastrAs. Prapatti has its own set of rules and

regulations albeit much easier ones. Infact, one of

the angas of prappati is taking the resolve to not to

do anything against shAstras (Sruti & Smruti), which

are verily the commandments of AchAryas, and another

anga is following the rules and regulations of the

Shastras.

 

I request learned scholars to correct my mistakes in

this mail, if any.

 

aDiyEn ramanuja dAsan,

lakshmikumAr.

 

Srimad Azhagiya Singar thiruvadigalE saranam!

 

 

 

 

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