Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2000 >Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:07:13 -0500 >Venkat Nagarajan <NAGARAVE >X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list >Re: Preaching >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Sri. Mohan Wrote: > >the path that leads one to the Divine is in reality not the result of human >efforts, but due solely to His Grace. > >Comment: > >Human endeavour is essential to gain the grace of Brahman. >Sri. Vedanta Desika explicates this both in Tattva-muktA-kalApa and in >the Rahasya-TrayasAram. > Srimad Venkata lakshmana yativaraya namah. human effore is very much essential and that is what our acharyan srimad vedanta desikar might have wirtten. it is to be noted here that srimad desikar has also written 100 slokams on the mercy of the lord. when does a human-being attempt to obtain His grace? we know many people worshipping demigods and mortals and thus posting their letters to the wrong address. only due to the nirhetuka krupai of perumal, we get the wisdom to take refuge at Him. it is true that bhagavata kataksham and acharya kataksham will be very much useful in attaining Him. however, who is the motivating factor for the bhagavatas and acharyas to bless us? ultimately He only! also no previous punyam of whatever magnitude directs us toward Him, as we have been committing innumerable sins since time immemorial alongwith punyams and are paid for both in the form of svargadi bhogams and narakadi durgatis. nirhetuka krupai does not make perumal partial as He neither gains nor loses anything out of it. please forgive me for my mistakes. dasans vishnu MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 11, 2000 <sampathkumar_2000 >X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list >aagama-s and temple construction >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >Sri.S.Parthasarathy in his post observes that many >temples being newly built in present-day India do not >conform to the rules of aagamA. > >This is true to some extent. > >Sir, just as an interesting aside (and not in defense >of taking license with the aagama), I ask you if you >knew that many aagama experts say that the main idol >("moolavar") of Lord Venkateshwara ("svayambhu") >defies all aagamic canons?! > Srimad Venkata Lakshmana Yativaraya namah. Dear Bhagavatas, my namaskars to u all. Lord of Thiruvengadam is none other than paravasudevan in ninra thirukkolam while govindarajar is a replica of ksheerabdhinaathan. also the former is svayamvyaktam no diff from paravasudevan even in thirumeni. His thirumeni is suddhasattvam. to which agama do the thirumenis of ramar and kannan conform? nobody knows. however, since Thiruvengadam is the topmost vaikhanasa temple and their acharyan vikhanasa rushi himself composed an ashtottaram on thiruvengadavan, I think His thirumeni totally conforms to vaikhanasam. also there is nothing avaishnavite about His thirumeni. each and every feature of His body is vaishnavam in its own way, as proved by udaiyavar who came in support of vaikhanasa and SVs of the place. Agama sastras classify archas of perumal into 4-5 categories, based on the distance upto which They can attract jeevas. Lord of thiruvengadam is classified as having infinite potential (source: TTD temple art museum near HH Pedda jeeyar mutt, tirupati). this view is also supported by alwars in many many pasurams. dasan vishnu MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 11, 2000 Sri. Vishnu/Bhagavatas, You are entitled to your opinion. However, I like to stick with the view propounded by the Vadagali school. This view was the one my grandfather accepted, and his father before him and his father before him and so on. I am willing to place my unconditional trust in the view followed by those illustrious individuals. Ramanuja Dasan, Venkat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 12, 2000 Friends, I do not want to enter this debate for want of adhikaara re aagama etc.But I want to point out a reference to those interested in this subject. The History of Tirupati by TKT Viraraghavacharya, publ by TTD. in 1953, second edition 1977, reprint 1997. This remarkable 3 volume work costs exactly Rs. 77 i.e., less than $2. So the discussants may want to go thru this book too. The author was a retired executive engineer in the (then) Madras State and exhibits deep knowledge in Sanskrit (the epics, puranas, aagamas) and Tamil esp Divyaprabandham, Silappadhikaaram etc.. In the foreword to the first edition, this is what the Executive Officer of the TTD says "The author who was basically an engineer by profession combines his scientific spirit of enquiry with his traditional theistic approach to present a *lucid and fairly accurate* History of Tirumala Temple". (emphasis mine) > With the "brighu-samhita" the author says: > Quote: > "The 33rd adhyAya of the brighu-samhita shows that > Vishnu has 4 hands invested with 5 weapons or > aayudhA-s; the 2 halves of the body are symmetrical > and beautifully shaped; that he wears all the > divya-aabharanA-s; SriDevi ever abides in his form and > that he is full of kalyana-gunA-s and wanting in none > and he shines with his 6 gunA-s (shadguna). These lines seem to be taken verbatim from TKT.(Vol 1 p 179 in the chapter entitled Murti Swarupam of Sri Venkateswara). It is perhaps significant that immediately following TKT also says, " The mention of the Shadgunas is worth noting. We will refer to it later". > > "But this description is not a detailed one for > Venkateshwara. The divya-aayudhA-s, not all the > weapons are in SriVenkaeshwara's hands." > (Unquote) These lines also seem to be taken from TKT. (already cited. TKT also adds that "the Pancharatra Agamas describe Para Vasudeva in different terms, mostly as being seated on Anantha, the Divine Serpent. They are all out of place for our purpose". It is perhaps worthwhile here to state that TKT's poistion on this issue is his section heading "The Murti (Sri Venkateswara)not a man-made one". (Vol 1, p 176) I may add in passing that he also dismisses the (in-)famous debate of the naagaabharanam. He quotes Poykaiyaalvaar pasuram cenRARkutaiyAm (mutal. 53) in this connection. Equally relevant here is his discussion of "Some Crude and Incorrect Notions" (section heading in Vol I, p 197) wherein he traces the history of some other facets usually pointed out by detractors of Srinivasa viz., simha lalaatam, sandal paste, jata etc and points out the insignificance or lack of antiquity of many of these facets. On the other hand for the aayudhas and aabharanas themselves, he quotes ancient sources such as silappadikaaram (kAtukANkAtai, tiruvAymozi (6.10.10 etc). Finally, TKT has a chapter titled "Temples and the Agamas",a 5 section chapter going over 70 pages complete with fold in diagrams of temple architecture, discussion of aavaranas, epigraphic evidence, Sanskrit slokas, Tamil ceyyuL's etc. It is more complex than electrical engineering, my bane during my student days :-). I urge the scholars in this list to go thru this, digest it and explain it in simple terms for laymen like me. Thanks and Warm Regards, Lakshmi Srinivas _____ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 12, 2000 Srimad Venkata Lakshmana yativaraya namah. Dear Bhagavatas, It is good that Sriman Sampathkumaran swami has exposed us to one of the books publishd by TTD, notorious for publishing such stuff. anyone knowing sanskrit can interpret vaikhanasa in his own way. from the info provided by Sri sampath swami, the author does not appear to be a vaikhanasa. also one need not have read vaikhanasam to refute what the author has written. my information >comes from Sri.N.Ramesam's excellent book "The >Tirumala Temple" published by the TTD(1979). >Sri.Ramesam was one time Chairman of the >Tirumala-Tirupati Devasthanam. > >In the above book, giving graphic iconographic details >of the "moolavar", Sri.Ramesam first catalogues in the >form of a check-list all the characteristics of a >Vishnu idol laid down in the "mArichasamhita" of the >VaikhAnasa-agama. Then he tries to fit the actual >features of the idol with the check-list. He then does >the same with another check-list of features laid down >in the "bhrighu-samhita". > >With the "brighu-samhita" the author says: >Quote: >"The 33rd adhyAya of the brighu-samhita shows that >Vishnu has 4 hands invested with 5 weapons or >aayudhA-s; the 2 halves of the body are symmetrical >and beautifully shaped; that he wears all the >divya-aabharanA-s; SriDevi ever abides in his form and >that he is full of kalyana-gunA-s and wanting in none >and he shines with his 6 gunA-s (shadguna). > at how many places He has 5 weapons? how can the auhtor say Lord's thirumeni does not conform to vaikhanasam by quoting a few passages from here and there? >"But this description is not a detailed one for >Venkateshwara. The divya-aayudhA-s, not all the >weapons are in SriVenkaeshwara's hands." >(Unquote) > Lord of thiruvengadam was having sankha and chakra in His archa form at one point of time which He gave away to His father-in-law's younger brother i.e. king Thondaman or Sankharaja ("Sankharajhasya thushtidah" says His sahsram) to save Him for enemies. later it is bhagavadbhashyakarar Who did samasryanam to Him. at that time Sridevi was not visible on His chest. It is ramanujar who installed Her golden archa on His chest. Thus he is His guru-cum-father-in-law ("Sri venkataachaladhisa sankha chakra pradaayakah sri srinivaasassvasurah sriramaa sakha desikah" says andhra poornar in ashottaram of udayavar.) HOwever, i repeat that there was nothing avaishnavite about His divine features. sahsra namam also says "sankitaakhilah" which means He is always subject to suspicion by evrybody. >After similar and careful iterative process (4 full >pages) of matching the features of actual idol, one by >one, with other aagama specs (like those of the >"maricha-samhita")the author finally concludes: > >(quote): >"From a detailed examination of the aagamic rules, (we >see that) the idol of the Lord does NOT correspond to >them. One can therefore only come to any one of the >following two conclusions: > >(1) The idol of Lord Venkateshwara was conceived and >executed at a time before the aagamA-s were codified >and came into being; He is premordial! nothing like conceiving or executing. He is self-manifested out of soulabhyam! It is rugveda which describes jagatkaranan as Purusha with lakshmi as His consort. It laos says somewhere that that purushan is nArAyaNa (adha purushohavai nARaYaNah). thus it tells us that jagatkaranatvam, sriyahpatitvam and nArAyaNa sabda vaachyatvam are the essentila characteristics of the parabrahman. same rugveda advises jeevan to go to Venkatachalam where there is a god having Sri on His vakshassthalam. thus asmatswami is the only archa perumal known to have a mention in veda. we will try to cover a rough translation to the vyakhyanam of ramanuja for the relevant mantra in a separate posting. this is also supported by a purana sloka in QUITE SIMILAR WORDING. also Lord of Venkatam is decribed as Sankha chakra dhari and sriyahpati in many puranas at many many places. ananthalwan thiruvadigale saranam dasan vishnu MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 14, 2000 --- Srimahavishnu Vinjamuri <s.vinjamuri wrote: > It is good that Sriman Sampathkumaran swami has > exposed us to one of the books publishd by TTD, > notorious for publishing such stuff. > Sir, Adiyen has not read many of TTD's publications. Tell me, does TTD generally publish "notorious stuff"?! Any other glaring examples you know that you want to share with us all? > anyone knowing sanskrit can interpret vaikhanasa in > his own way. from the info provided by Sri sampath > swami, the author does not appear to be a > vaikhanasa. also one need not have read vaikhanasam > to refute what the author has written. Adiyen does not know the author so I can't say if he is a VaikhAnasa or not. Sir, but adiyen is quite happy to accept the author as long as what he writes is credible, reasonable and responsible. > Lord of thiruvengadam was having sankha and chakra > in His archa form at one point of time which He gave > away to His father-in-law's younger brother i.e. > king Thondaman or Sankharaja ("Sankharajhasya > thushtidah" says His sahsram) to save Him for > enemies. later it is bhagavadbhashyakarar Who did > samasryanam to Him. > at that time Sridevi was not visible on His chest.> It is ramanujar who installed Her golden archa> on His chest. Thus he is His guru-cum-father-in-law> ("Sri venkataachaladhisa sankha chakra pradaayakah> sri srinivaasassvasurah sriramaa sakha desikah"> says andhra poornar in ashottaram of udayavar.) Sir, according to aagamA experts, the Lord's idol always had "lakshmi" on its "vakshasthala". In fact the most unique and beautiful feature of the idol is that thAyyAr's figure is INTEGRAL to it. The aagma experts confirm that there are no visible or structural signs on the idol to show that "thAyyAr" figure on it was at any time "affixed" or "fused" or re-affixed or re-fused on to it. > HOwever, i repeat that there was nothing > avaishnavite about His divine features. Sir, adiyen is not at all clear why you must come to the conclusion that if the idol is not exactly as per the "agamA" it must therefore be "a-vaishnavite". Perhaps you can explain the non-sequitor a little more clearly, if you don't mind. Thanks. > we will try to cover a rough translation to the > vyakhyanam of ramanuja for the relevant mantra > in a separate posting. this is also supported by a > purana sloka in QUITE SIMILAR WORDING. Great! Looking forward to your valuable inputs to the ongoing discussions which are indeed becoming more and more interesting! dAsan, Sampathkumaran Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 15, 2000 On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:20:23 eGroups Digest wrote: > >------------------------------ message 9201 ------------------------------ >http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9201 > >Sir, Adiyen has not read many of TTD's publications. >Tell me, does TTD generally publish "notorious >stuff"?! Any other glaring examples you know that you >want to share with us all? Thiruvengada Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam Dear Sri Sampathkumaran swami, dasoham. TTD does generally publish notorious stuff and rarely publishes vaishnvaite stuff. To explain this is beyond the scope of the ongoing discussion. I somehow feel that discussing much about Srinivasa's thirumeni is not good for the growth of a forum like this, in which "Srinivasa parabrhmane namah" is nowadays absent, though none of us intend any apacharam to Him. however, i am prepared for a discussion even for several years. > >> anyone knowing sanskrit can interpret vaikhanasa in >> his own way. from the info provided by Sri sampath >> swami, the author does not appear to be a >> vaikhanasa. also one need not have read vaikhanasam >> to refute what the author has written. > >Adiyen does not know the author so I can't say if he >is a VaikhAnasa or not. Sir, but adiyen is quite happy >to accept the author as long as what he writes is >credible, reasonable and responsible. > >> Lord of thiruvengadam was having sankha and chakra >> in His archa form at one point of time which He gave >> away to His father-in-law's younger brother i.e. >> king Thondaman or Sankharaja ("Sankharajhasya >> thushtidah" says His sahsram) to save Him for >> enemies. later it is bhagavadbhashyakarar Who did >> samasryanam to Him. > at that time Sridevi was not >visible on His chest.> It is ramanujar who installed >Her golden archa> on His chest. Thus he is His >guru-cum-father-in-law> ("Sri venkataachaladhisa >sankha chakra pradaayakah> sri srinivaasassvasurah >sriramaa sakha desikah"> says andhra poornar in >ashottaram of udayavar.) > >Sir, according to aagamA experts, the Lord's idol >always had "lakshmi" on its "vakshasthala". In fact >the most unique and beautiful feature of the idol is >that thAyyAr's figure is INTEGRAL to it. The aagma >experts confirm that there are no visible or >structural signs on the idol to show that "thAyyAr" >figure on it was at any time "affixed" or "fused" or >re-affixed or re-fused on to it. Very good information. i was really not sure about it. very happy to know that. why did you not ask the same "Agama experts" whom you are now quoting whether any feture of His thirumeni is violative of Agamas? BHAGAVAD RAMANUJA DID INSTALL THAYAR'S GOLDEN ARCHA on His chest. thAyAr might also be existing as an integral part of his body, which those with ulterior motives might not recognise. golden archa of thAyAr is taken down on Friday Thirumanjanam. during this temporary vislesham, nAchhiyAr thirumozhi pAsurams are recited. this is an age-old tradition. Sir, the Agama experts some of Whom allso might have enjoyed the sparSA sukham of BhagavAn MIGHT HAVE NEVER SAID THAT HIS THIURMENI DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THEIR SASTRA. In fact, NO QUALIFIED VAIKHNASA OR PANCHARATRA WOULD EVER SAY THAT. >Sir, adiyen is not at all clear why you must come to >the conclusion that if the idol is not exactly as per >the "agamA" it must therefore be "a-vaishnavite". >Perhaps you can explain the non-sequitor a little more >clearly, if you don't mind. Thanks. if it does not comply with atleast one of our Agamas, how can it be Vaishnavite? i believe Agama experts strong in anushtAnam can always judge which idol comes under which category. when they accept an idol to be svayambhU, they do it as per the yardsticks laid down in their Agamas to decide which idol is what. For Srivaishnavas, Agamas are the only basis for temple worship. OK, let me put it in the other way. 1.you yourself have told me now that She is an integral part of His thiruemni. 2. you have quoted sombody saying in his book that Vishnu has to have 5 weapons in a vaikhanasa temple. adiyen has refuted it saying that many vaikhanasa temples do not have Him with all five weapons. I have also written that thiruvengadamudiayan was having Sankha chakras initially in His archa form. 3. u have quoted the author as saying that Vishnu has to be shAdgunya ParipUrNan,a coording to Vaikhansam. none of us has any doubts about His having all six gunas to infinite potentials. many puranas praise thiruvengadamudaiyan as Parabrahman. this means He has all six qualities i.e. ananta jnanam etc. my question 1. can you please tell me a single feature of His thirumeni which is violative of Vaikhnasam? dasudu vishnu MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2000 Namaskarams, I have been a member of this list from the inception when my email address was deepak (I was in my final year of Computer Science and Engineering, then) (The list was then operating from a different address other than eGroups.com). Well! I have a small question, which I had also posted some time back and would like to post again. Would anybody help me out in that? I would be glad if anybody could help me in getting the Sri Lakshmi Narasimha Anushtup Stotram. Thanks. Deepak Kumar Vasudevan B.E., [deepak] [vdeepakkumar] Deepak Kumar Vasudevan [deepak] [vdeepakkumar] [http://www.srivaishnava.net/] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2000 In response to the following question, the response, to the extent I know, is given below. > Namaskaram, > > My father is turning 60 and I would like to perform the Sadabishekam > for my parents. I heard that there is a temple near Madras, where I > can perform this wedding. I live in here in U.S.A. I would like to know > how to contact this temple for the wedding. I would like to hear > your experience in this matter. > > Nandri, > Latha The procedure for sixtieth birth day celebration is as follows: 1. Five days before in a small mantapam or in a room spread dhAnyam and akshathai on top. Place a kumbham and fill the kumbham with water sanntified by ganagA and kAvEri thertham. Leave perumal, preferably sAligramam instead of a photo, next to the mumbham facing east. 2. After vishvaksEna Aradhanam, perform Avahanam of pudareekAshan or Lakshminrusimhan, according to sampradayam. 3. Next to sankalpam involving all family members start with veda pArayanam (portions of rik, yajus, sama and atharva veda followed by at least eight anuvAham of yajurvedam (or to whatever sAkha one belongs to) with trained priests over the first 4 days. Also all or portions of nAlAyira divya prabhandam will be chanted after performing sAttumurai for each day in the morning as well as in the evening, 4. On the fifth day, i.e., on the day of the 60th birth day, after udakasanti perform nakshatra homam, (corresponding to the nakshatram of the person), and Ayushya homam. 5. Then udakasanti theertha snAnam is performed. Entire family (son's daughters, daughters-in-law etc.,) then attends to nireekshadAnam (which involves seeing the figure of the entire family -all together- in the reflection of hot ghee poured into a large vessel (iluppa catti?). At the end of this, every one wears new vastras. 6. After mAngalaya dhAranm, followed by Aseervadam, perumAl sambavana, and odhi iduthal (presenting gifts), tiru Aradhanam is performed to the chanting of koil tiruvoimozhi. The sAligramam moved to the original place after paryankAsanam is completed for the day. 7. The function is concluded after tadeeyAradhanam. With the help of trained purohits, this is to be performed in the house. The most important in all of these are: Veda Parayanam, prabhanda pArayanam, Ayushya homam and nireeksha dhAnam, and tadeeyAradhanam to purohits This function is performed for the welfare of the children. mAngalya dhAranam etc., are performed as a social event only. If your parents are in this country, you might perform 60th birthday of your parents in your house with the help of local temple priests, who can perform udakasAnti, and Ayushya homam etc. The presence of eldest son and his wife is considered necessary for the event. dAsan rAghavan. > Namaskaram, > > My father is turning 60 and I would like to perform the Sadabishekam > for my parents. I heard that there is a temple near Madras, where I > can perform this wedding. I live in here in U.S.A. I would like to know > how to contact this temple for the wedding. I would like to hear > your experience in this matter. > > Nandri, > Latha > > > > ------------------------------ message 9235 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9235 > > "vchandra" <vchandra > 20 Mar 2000 09:20:24 +0500 > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > gO mAdhA in ruins? > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dear members, > Though this subject is not totally relevant to this list, it has some s= > ignificance, I feel. > In our tradition cow is as sacred as Lord Narayana Himself since it's b= > elieved to house all the dEvAs in its various angams. Mainly speaking, huma= > ns have been for eons impressed by the sAtvic characteristics of the gO mAd= > hA and hence worship the soft-natured being as Holy mother. But though the = > sAtvic character is inherent in a cow, its nature should also be because of= > the food that it consumes and the shed that it lives in. This being the id= > eal, now we come to see some heart-rending things that are happening to the= > se creatures in our country and abroad (no need to talk about slaughter hou= > ses here). = > > Here in Bangalore (even in vArANasi kshEtram where I visited last year)= > , it's a common sight these days to see cows roaming in the streets hapless= > ly. Their main food is garbage of the town. This garbage includes all sorts= > of things plastic bags, paper, all junk that houses dump into the garbage = > can in the streets. Once it seems a cow was operated and they took out unim= > aginable kind of things from its stomach. I feel so sad when I see a cow fe= > eding on the garbage. = > > This being the status in our country, > in Western countries, esp US, I read in the internet somewhere, the vet= > . scientists (they call themselves thus) have discovered that replacing so= > me vegetarian diet of a cow with fish oil increases the yield and improves = > the nutrients of the milk. I can't imagine to what extent man will tamper w= > ith the nature in meeting his ends,.. it's simply heart-rending. > This being the case, will a cow and its offsprings (and the milk) still = > possess the sAtvic character that is so dear to us ? Sometimes they say "ri= > shi mUlam and nadhi mUlam" should not be analysed. = > > I sincerely apologise if the contents above are hurting. > > adiyEn, > chandrasekaran. > > > > ------------------------------ message 9236 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9236 > > Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:31:22 -0500 > Gopan <sgopan > References: <8b462m$ddft (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Information about a temple where I can perform the Sadabishekam > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear Srimathi Latha Kaliyur: > > The 60th birthday (Sashtiabdha poorthi) celebration > can be done at the temple. It is however performed > better at Home with a PurOhithar and family . > The Udaka Shanthi , Veda PaarAyaNam > are important features of this function. > The pouring of consecrated water from > the Udaka ShAnthi Kumbham is the highlight > of this celebration for longer and healthy life . > > Some people reenact their marriage in front > of their children and grand children to bring > a social aspect to this function . > The temples in this country perform the 60th anniversary > celebration and conduct homams for general well being . > Hope this helps, > V.Sadagopan > > latha_kaliyur wrote: > > > Namaskaram, > > > > My father is turning 60 and I would like to perform the Sadabishekam > > for my parents. I heard that there is a temple near Madras, where I > > can perform this wedding. I live in here in U.S.A. I would like to know > > how to contact this temple for the wedding. I would like to hear > > your experience in this matter. > > > > Nandri, > > Latha > > > > ------ > > - SrImate raamaanujaaya namaH - > > To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > > Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information > > > > ------ > > Group buying power teams you with others to save more. Get the > > lowest prices on all the latest Palms and accessories when you > > buy through Accompany, the Web's leading destination for great > > deals on group buys. > > http://click./1/2512/2/_/716111/_/953575638/ > > > > eGroups.com Home: bhakti-list/ > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------ message 9237 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9237 > > Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:42:09 -0500 > Gopan <sgopan > References: <20000320032636.11431.qmail > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Sources for the pAncarAtra Series. > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear Sriman Krishnamachari : > > Your articles on PaancharAthram are well > researched and are valuable . It is my experience > that many times , we do not get as much feedback > as one would like to get , when engaging in a serious > effort such as yours .Please continue to enlighten us > on both the Paancha RaathrA and the VaikAnasa > Aagamams and particularly the points of difference . > > The Melukote Sanskrit Academy has done pioneering > work in the study of Aagamaas and you may wish to > get in touch with Sri Lakshmi TatachAr , the Director > of Sanskrit academy . > > In a related matter , the Academy is putting together > a critical study of BhAshyams for Upanishads follwing > the Sri SampradhAyam ( Based on Sri RangarAmAnuja Muni's > Sanskrit text ) .These are distinct and clearly defined projects > that members would like to support and benefit from . > > Regarding the Aagamaas , the top study centers > are at Melukote and Kaanchi .Even Bhattars from > Kaanchi come to study PaancharAthra Aagamam > at Melukote . You may wish to get in touch with > the Academy thru Dr.M.A.Alwar ( the elder son > of Dr. Lakshmi TatachAr , the Director of the Melukote > Sanskrit Academy ) for additional sources and critical > commentaries. > Best wishes , > V.Sadagopan > > > Narasimhan Krishnamachari wrote: > > > SrI Krishna Kalale: > > > > As you might have noticed, I have titled the write-up > > as a "Review article". It draws from several sources. > > I have listed some of the major sources below: > > > > 1. Vol. 4 of the Agama Series by Kalpataru Research > > Academy, edited by Ramachandra Rao. > > 2. pAdma samhita - with foreward by Sudarsanam SrI > > Krishnaswamy Aiyengar. > > 3. Agama prAmANyam - General Editor A. N. Jani, Edited > > by M. Narasimhachary, 1976. > > 4. 4. SrI pAncarAtra rakshA of SrI vedAnta deSika - > > edited by M. Duraiswamy Aiyengar, with an Introduction > > by G. Srinivasa Murti > > 5. Agama PrAmANyam - Translation by J. A. B. van > > Buitenen > > 6. Agamas and South India Vaishnavism - I have only > > copy of Chapter X from someone, and do not have the > > author's name. I will find it and share it later. > > > > I had a big question in my mind on whether to even > > share the info I gathered with the list or keep it to > > myself. I just felt there may be enough readers in > > the list like me who would want to learn about the > > Agama-s at least a high level, and so I have tried to > > reflect the views expressed by many of the above > > writers without trying to add "my own views", even > > though inadvertently I might have done it. In general > > there has been no reaction from the list so far for > > the four parts I have submitted. I don not know > > whether this means that the write-up is not adding > > much value, or too complex or something else. > > > > The request to Sri Krishna Kalale and the others in > > the list is to correct me where I am wrong, so that I > > can learn in the process. I also would like advice in > > person or in public on whether I should continue the > > series, or whether there are enough differences in > > views that I may not be reflecting the "accepted > > views", and should stop it. I have started a similar > > effort on the vaikhAnasa Agama, for which > > unfortunately I don't even have as many sources. > > > > -dAsan kRshNamAcAryan > > > > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > > http://im. > > > > ------ > > - SrImate raamaanujaaya namaH - > > To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > > Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information > > > > ------ > > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: > > http://click./1/2377/2/_/716111/_/953575611/ > > > > eGroups.com home: bhakti-list > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------ message 9238 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9238 > > Ramanbil > Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:28:45 EST > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Sources for the pAncarAtra Series. > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear friend: > We are beholden to you for an insightful series on Agamas, which is an eye > opener for very many who have no idea of what the Agamas really mean. > Please be assured: We believe that you will not misguide us and if anything > you will err on the right side only. > > Please don't be put off by lack of response. It does happen to all writers on > the list. > Please remember that you have scores of silent readers out there. > Please continue this kainkaryam for our benefit. Looking forward to your > series on the Vaikhanasa Agamam > Dasoham > Anbil Ramaswamy > > > -------------------------------- > > -- > View the full archives, /, use the > group calendar at http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list > Manage your subscriptions at http://eGroups.com > > Free e-mail groups by eGroups.com. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2000 To all I need some advise. I stay here in Gaborone, Botswana in Southern Africa. Recently we have installed Lord Srinivasa's urchavar in our Hindu hall. ( Not a proper temple). we wish to conduct some paryers every wednesday and I need some guidance, as to what to recite and the order. Though we have different opinions, I still thought I should take your opininons, as I am very impressed by the way the knowledge flows through your Group. Also, can I have the calender of Lord srinivasa for the year 2000, which we want to celebrate and make a mark of Vaishnavism. We would like to commence this from the day of swami's thiru Natchathiram. Please assist me. Adiyen T A Muralidharan murali - eGroups Digest <bhakti-list > <murali Friday, March 24, 2000 12:17 PM bhakti-list digest > eGroups Daily Digest: bhakti-list has 5 new messages. > Click here http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9263 to read them. > > -------------------------------- > 9263. Vijayaraghavan Srinivasan Re: Fwd: Why BOOKS ? - IMPORTANT > 9264. Murali Kadambi Re: Why BOOKS ? - IMPORTANT > 9265. Anand Karalapakkam Re: Appeal for UttamUr SwAmi's Books Publication > 9266. Sadagopan Status of the CD ROM project on " the Life and wo > 9267. Kalyani Krishnamachari nAcciyAr tirumozhi X - kArkkODal pUkkAL 8 > -------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ message 9263 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9263 > > "Vijayaraghavan Srinivasan" <vijayaraghavan_s > Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:58:03 EST > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Fwd: Why BOOKS ? - IMPORTANT > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > >Vijayaraghavan Srinivasan [sMTP:vijayaraghavan_s] > >Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:56 AM > >kkalale1 > >Re: Why BOOKS ? - IMPORTANT > > > >Dear Kalale and other BhaghavatOttams: > > > >The spirited writing of Krishna are always inspiring. His appeal concerns > >prioritization of our resources. Preserving the works of our great > >achAryas > >is fundamental to our faith. > > > >On the issue of publishing or printing more books, my personal opinion is: > >There are probably lots of books but we have lack of readers. We can > >probably circumvent this problem by starting small study-groups (like the > >Gita session of Shri Kalale). Create > >interest in these subjects and people will automatically come forward to > >encourage these programs. > > > >On the issue of abharanams, I respect the views of Shri Sadagopan. My > >mother and other family members feel that way. However, personally I > >think, provision of clean water facility, a nice bathing ghat in the pond > >(kulam), fans & lights inside the sannidhys, elimination of cockroaches > >inside the sannidhy etc., a ayurvedic dispensary in our divya desams to > >help > >the poor, require greater priority. Cleaniness is next to Godliness is > >probably not very much appreciated in our system (probably due to the > >weather?). > > > >AdiyEn > > > >Vijayaraghava Dasan > >Buffalo, NY > >____ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ____ > > > ------------------------------ message 9264 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9264 > > Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) > Murali Kadambi <murali_kadambi > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Why BOOKS ? - IMPORTANT > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear bhAgawatas, > > I CANNOT BUT AGREE with this e-mail. Speaking of > books ... when I returned from India this time I > brought with me three complimentary copies of the > beautiful Kannada book entitled "Ramanuja sookti > muktAvali" written by the famous U. Ve. (Dr.) N. S. > Anantharangachariar of Bangalore. The book gives in > simple readable Kannada the entire doctrine of > VisishtAdvaita as expounded by Ramanuja. The > interesting feature of the book (from what I have > read) is that it refers only to Ramanuja's words and > works and none else. (Others who have read this book > and find otherwise, please correct me.) So, the book > can verily be considered a sri-sukti of our dearest > Ramanujacharya in Kannada. > > The SVSS was involved in the noble cause of raising > funds for this book, and there were several donors in > that effort. I REQUEST the donors kindly to provide > me their postal address and other details either on > this list or via personal e-mail so that I can go > ahead and ship them a copy each. I should be able to > ship to addresses within the US (and possibly Canada). > > SrImAn U. Ve. Anantharangachariar swAmin was more than > delighted to send copies of his book through me for > the benefit of readers in North America, and in fact > had brought along with him many more than my luggage > bag could fit. > > May the effort to print books on our philosophy take > on greater momentum because if we lose books, we will > have nothing more than anecdotes and blank faces to > offer to our next generation. > > || rAmAnujArya divyAj~Na vardhatAm abhivardhatAm || > > -- aDiyEn, muraLi kaDAmbi > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > http://im. > > > ------------------------------ message 9265 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9265 > > Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:24:42 +0530 > Anand Karalapakkam <kgk > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Re: Appeal for UttamUr SwAmi's Books Publication > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > SrI: > SrI SrInivAsa ParabrahmaNE namaha > SrImad abhinava dESIka UttamUr VerrarAghavArya - > mahAdESIkAya namaha > > Dear devotees, > namO nArAyaNA. > > Kainkaryam (service performed with sAtvIka tyAgam) > to the Divya Dampati SrI and NArAyaNA is the > parama-purushArtam (the final goal) for a jIvAtma. > Such kainkaryams for a baddha jIvAtma can broadly be > classified into two categories viz. (i) Ag~nyA kainkaryams > which are mandatory according to the VarNA and Ashrama and > (ii) anug~nyA kainkaryams which are optional. > > Out of the endless types of anug~nyA kainkaryams, > SwAmi dESikan in the chillarai rahasyam "pradhAna Satakam" > clearly points out that "Kainkaryam in the form of > jn~Anam" is superior to "Kainkaryam in the form of > physical act" ie. kainkaryams like learning and > spreading ubhaya-vEdAnta is superior to kainkaryams like > making garlands for PerumAL etc. SwAmi dESikan says that > such kainkaryams in the form of "Jn~Anam" are "pradhAnam" > (of foremost importance). > > > The SrIsookti of SwAmi dESikan is : > > "anug~nyA siddha kainkaryamgaLil kriyAmSatthil jn~AnAmSam > pradhAnamAna padiyAlE jn~Ana-upayukta-prabandha- > pariSeelanamum SAstrArtha-pratisandhAna-hEtuvAna dwaya > vacanAdigaLum pradhAnangaL" ( PradhAna Satakam, 54). > > It is stated that, learning vEdAnta and the divine works > of AzhwArs and AchAryAs to obtain jn~Anam belongs to > the category of "Kainkaryam in the form of jn~Anam". > Rememberance of such learnt sAstrAs through Dwaya mantra > etc is also stated to be a "kainkaryam in the form of > knowledge/jn~Anam". These are "pradhAnam" ie. of utmost > importance in comparison to "Kainkaryams in the form of > physical act". > > Infact, the first three of the last five commandments > of Bhagavad RAmAnujAchArya is > > 1. To study and propagate SrI BhAshyam, his magnum opus > and the commentry to Brahma SUtrAs of Sage VyAsa. > > 2. To study and propagate the Divya Prabandham (not > mere texts, but the implied meanings) of AzhwArs. > > 3. To recite Dwaya mantram with the knowledge of its > meaning. > > Bhagavad RAmAnuja then said that if these things > weren't possible, one should perform services at a > divya dEsam Or be merely a good servant for a > SrI Vaishnava who does the above kainkaryams. > > Also, one of the last commands of SrI UttamUr SwAmi, > before ascending to paramapadam, to his disciples in > particular and the SrI Vaishnava community in large is > to re-print his works and the works of the AchAryAs > whenever they are not available and _always_ make them > available for the needy. > > The emphasis on the anug~nyA kainkaryam in the form > of knowledge is the most important message from our > AchAryAs, since the Divya Dampati are greatly delighted > by these kainkaryams. Afterall, its Lord NArAyaNa who is > the first AchArya of our SrI SampradAyam and He has made > it a point to always propagate the vEdAs and Smrutis > from kalpam to kalpam and to provide us with AzhwArs > and AchAryAs for our utmost benifit to understand the > tattva, hita and purushArtam properly. He has been doing > this without any tiredness from time immemorial and it is > by itself an indication as to what we should also do > with sAtvIka tyAgam to please SrIman NArAyaNA. > > Thus, any kainkaryam (like re-printing books of AchAryAs) > that gives immense oppurtunity for many kainkaryams in the > form of jn~Anam is undoubtedly of foremost importance. > > In this light, adiyEn requests you all to kindly support > this very important project of reprinting the invaluable > works of SrI abhinava dESika UttamUr VeerarAghavAchArya, > which are mostly commentries and glosses of the invaluable > works of our pUrvAchAryAs. Preservation of these books > and passing it on to the next generation is of great > importance. > > During the kAlakshEbams of UttamUr SwAmi, his > foremost disciple SrI SrIvatsAnkAchArya has noted > down very important and relevant points and footnotes > as and when UttamUr SwAmi delivered it. This has > been done directly in the personal copy of his > book itself for many works of UttamUr SwAmi. > Many points were mainly noted down by him because, > UttamUr SwAmi himself felt that it would have been > better if those things also were penned down earlier > by him into the manuscript, before the publication. > > Be it Bhagavad gItA Or SarvArtha Siddhi Or ParamArtha > bhUshanam etc, SrI SrIvatsAnkhAchArya has ready-made > notes and footnotes in his personal copy of the > book. Its extremly important to make them get printed > and it will be duly incorporated in this re-print. > > The other very important feature of this re-printing > series is that, English translation of the bhUmikAs > (ie. Introductions) of UttamUr SwAmi will be added. > adiyEn has requested SrI SrIvatsAnkAchArya to translate > the bhUmikAs of UttamUr SwAmi into tamil with additional > footnotes if neccessary. It will then be translated into > English with the help of scholars who has good background > > in English. > > Infact, all the bhUmikAs of UttamUr SwAmi are > outstanding and all of our vidvAns have poured in lots > of praises. Scholars say that SwAmi's bhUmikAs are so > well researched and un-biassed, involving excellent > analysis that, it forms a separate Ph.D. thesis in > itself! One of the well known vidvAns of our > sampradAyam told adiyEn in a private conversation : > > " I will now reveal my 'trade secret' to you. To master > a subject, be it a certain Upanishad Or any other > topic, I will first master the bhUmika of UttamUr > SwAmi on that topic, which will invariably be > outstanding. I will follow the references made by > him into various texts in that topic and would master > those places atfirst alongwith the comments made by > pUrvAchAryAs and UttamUr SwAmi. By this process, > even without reading the whole commentry on that > topic, you will become a great authority in it. > All the intricate intellectual analysis as a > homework has already been done by UttamUr SwAmi. > We need to just pick it up and use. This is my > success story and why I am being hailed by other > vidvAns also as a good authority in many topics. " > > Thus, the English translation of the bhUmikAs of > UttamUr SwAmi is a very important kainkaryam and its > inclusion in this re-print has been planned since > it serves as a great boon for those who can't > understand Sanskrit. > > There are certain "bhUmikA" classics of UttamUr SwAmi, > one of the most outstanding of which is that to the > "Nayadyumani" of SrI MEghanAda sUri. It runs over 60 > pages and adiyEn has heard vidvAns pouring out lots > of praise to this bhUmika in particular. > > adiyEn has requested SrI SrIvatsAnkAchArya to translate > _all_ the bhUmikAs of UttamUr SwAmi into tamil,and that > tamil version alongwith the original sanskrit version > will be printed as a separate book. SwAmi has very kindly > accepted to perform the same and has already started > the translating work, starting from the gItA bhAshya > bhUmikAs - which are another masterpieces. > > By the way, SrI U.Ve.SrIvatsAnkAchArya is a chatur > sAstra pandita (ie. expert in vEdAnta, nyAya, pUrva > mImAmsa and vyAkarana) who learnt all the four sAstrAs > under the sacred feet of UttamUr SwAmi. For many > years of the past, this swAmi is a regular invitee for > the sathas (meet of scholars) conducted by advaitins and > dwaitins as well and this by itself gives the > indication of the quality of this swAmi's scholarship. > Needless to say, SrI SrIvatsAnkAchArya has presided over > and has been presiding many meets of esp. ViSishtAdvaita > scholars. He is an unparalleled authority in VyAkarana > (Grammar : VEdic Sanakrit and normal sanskrit) and is > spearheading a great project at the French Indological > Institute at Pondichery, Tamilnadu. It is on the creation > of an encyclopedia on the different words of sanskrit, > giving a good amount of details for each word. > > adiyEn has also requested SrI SrIvatsAnkAchArya to kindly > bless us with a bhUmika of his to each of the works of > UttamUr SwAmi, in making us understand the contribution > of UttamUr SwAmi for that topic, apart from adding his > own analysis. This will also appear in the re-printed > books, > alongwith its English translation. > > Another project which has been started is the gathering > of all the articles of UttamUr SwAmi that got published > in magazines like VEdAnta Deepika, SrI Nrusimha PriyA, > Souvenirs etc. adiyEn is hoping to publish a book > containing all such articles of UttamUr SwAmi. The > quality of the articles of UttamUr SwAmi are unparalleled > and various researched issues that are in his articles > won't be there in his books. So, its extremly important > to procure them and get it published. But, it will take > lot of time and efforts to finish this project. Its > extremly difficult to get the older issues of the > magazines and souvenirs, and adiyEn has requested few > vidvAns to kindly help out and work as a team. Hope that > PerumAL does favourable sankalpam for this. > > Well, there are more than 160 works published by UttamUr > SwAmi and this can give you a feel of the efforts that > are needed for the successful completion of the project. > > adiyEn humbly requests you all to very kindly donate > quite liberally towards this very important kainkaryam. > It would be great if you can sponsor even the publication > of book(s) Or get such sponsorors. There are scores of > books to be reprinted and the invaluable service rendered > by such reprinting can't be emphasized more. > > > Devotees at US and Canada are requested to send their > cheques (payable to SMSA Inc) to : > > Sree Vaishnava Seva Samithi > 7821 West Alder Drive > Littleton > CO 80128-5522 > > All the donors will enjoy tax excemption. > > Devotees outside US and Canada are kindly requested > to send their contributions payable to "Sri Uttamur > Viraraghavachariar Centenary Trust". > > Mailing address : > > SrI K.G. Krishnan > 11 Hasthigiri Street, > Chennai 600 033, > India. > > adiyEn will follow up with a series on the Life and > works of UttamUr SwAmi and will also let you know about > the currently available books. > > Thanks in advance for your kind interest in this > kainkaryam. > > AzhwAr, yemperumAnAr,dESikan,Azhagiyasingar - > thiruvadigaLE SaraNam > > > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > ananthapadmanAbha dAsan. > krishNArpaNam > > > > > ------------------------------ message 9266 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9266 > > Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:29:16 -0500 (EST) > Sadagopan <sgopan > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > Status of the CD ROM project on " the Life and works of the AzhwArs and the 108 Dhivya Desams " project > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Dear BhakthAs : > > At the end of the second day of the announcement > of this kaimkaryam , it is my privelege to report back > to you that a total of 19 BhakthAs from here and abroad > have come forward to raise so far the following sums > against the target figures of : > > (1) $500 for the replacement of the aging Thridhandam > on the hand of EmperumAnAr at SriperumbhUdhUr ; > > $Pledges for $400 has been received sofar. We are > thus at the 80% level of reaching the above target . > > (2) $5,000 for the New CD ROM project to pay our tributes > to the revered AzhwArs and the 108 dhivya desams that > they sung about in the sacred collect of 4,000 Verses : > > Pledges for $2,200 have been received sofar and that > leaves us to raise an additional sum of $ $2,800 . > We need 28 more pledges of $100 each or 14 pledges > of $200 each . We are now at the 44 % level of > the needed $5,000 . > > The individual pledges have ranged from $51 to $250 by > the dear members. Some have pledged to send their > contributions in Indian Rupees , which is perfectly fine . > > With the dhivya Dampathis' blessings , it is adiyEn's > prayer that we be will blessed to raise the rest of > the funds before Sri Rama Navami (April 24) at the latst > and place the SamarpaNams at the sacred feet of the AzhwArs > dear to our Lord RaamachandrA and His divine consort , > SithA PirAtti . > > Those of You , who have followed the moving postings of > Sriman MaadhavakkaNNan on Dhivya Prabhandhams > of Swamy NammAzhwAr and Thirumangai AzhwAr know > the powerful and unique relationship that the AzhwArs > had with Sriman NaarAyaNan and Sri MahA Lakshmi .Those > of You following the erudite postings of Srimathi > KalyANi KrishNamachari on NaacchiyAr Thirumozhi > and the postings of Sri M.G.Vaasudevan on > PeriyAzhwAr's Thirumozhi and postings by > erudite scholars like Sri Bharat of Bangalore, > Sri Sridharan of Houston, Sri Varahdan of Denver > know how precious are the anubhavams of > the AzhwArs during their spiritual journeys > to achieve MokshAnugraham . > > Those , who have taken part in the adhyayana uthsavams > at Sri RanganathA's temple at Pomona , NY and at the temple > for Sri Balaji at Chicago know the power of the recitation > of these sacred collects . > > One of the three reasons for initiating this project > is to share the exquisite anubhavam of the twelve great > AzhwArs with fellow-BhakthAs , whose Mother tongue > may not be Tamil ;even for those, whose Mother tongue > is Tamil , it is not easy to understand the nuances of > the experiences of the AzhwArs during their > spiritual journeys except with the help of > elaborate commentaries by poorvAchAryAs . > > The other two goals of the project are : > (1)to reach out to the younger generation about > the glories of the treasures left behnd for us > as family wealth by the twelve AzhwArs and > (2) to have a virtual journey of the 108 dhivya desams > with appropriate graphics and video clips . > > Please take part in this educational outreach > kaimkaryam that uses the new media technologies > to spread the message of our Ubhaya VedAntha > SampradhAyam. The AchArya RaamAnujA CD ROM > focused on the Sanskrit Vedic heritage and this > new CD ROM will celebrate " the Vernacular Vedham ". > > Your contributions can be sent to me at the following > address : > > V.Sadagopan > Apt 6B-1, Scarborough manor > Scarborough , NY 10510 > > I will forward the checks addressed to me > to India to start the kaimkaryam as soon > as possible and set ourselves six month's > time to complete this sacred project .If there > is a Tax-deductible way to forward the samarpaNams, > adiyEn will be very happy . > > Daasan , V.Sadagopan > > ------------------------------ message 9267 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list/?start=9267 > > Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:11:18 -0800 (PST) > Kalyani Krishnamachari <kkrishnamachari > X-Mailing-List: bhakti-list > nAcciyAr tirumozhi X - kArkkODal pUkkAL 8 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > SrI: > SrI ANDAL samEta SrI rangamannAr tiruvaDigaLE > SaraNam > > nAcciyAr tirumozhi X - kArkkODal pUkkAL > > pASuram 10.8 (tenth tirumozhi - pAsuram 8 mazhaiyE! > mazhaiyE!) > > mazhaiyE! mazhaiyE! maN puRam pUSi uLLAi ninRa > mezhugu URRinARpOl URRu nal vE'nkaTattuL ninRa > azhagap pirAnAr tammai en ne'njattu agappaDat > tazhuva ninRu ennai tagaittuk koNDu URRavum vallaiyE > > A. Meaning from SrImAn SaDagOpan's tamizh treatise: > > Oh rainy clouds! In making vigraha-s etc., it is > common to first make a figure of wax, then coat it > outside with clay, and then melt the wax inside and > pour it out. The azhagar of tiruvE'nkaTam has > similarly embraced me outside, and is melting me > inside out and destroying me. Won't you first unite > me with Him so that I can embrace Him closely just as > I am imagining in my mind, and then shower your rains > over both of us to your heart's content? > > B. Additional thoughts from SrI PVP : > > The clouds have rained and made the flowers (kArkkODal > etc.) blossom, and the peacocks dance with joy, and > have tortured ANDAL in whichever way they can. Now > they have started showering on her as well, and thus > continue to disturb ANDAL's mind even further. SrI > tirumalai nambi is said to have become deeply > engrossed with the meanings of this pASuram and the > next one, and after chanting these pASurams, will be > filled with tears in his eyes ("kaNNum kaNNIrumAi oru > vArttaiyum SollAdE"), and will become silent and not > be able to proceed further for quite some time. > > mazhaiyE mazhaiyE: the reason why godai is calling > the clouds two times is that, they are all so far away > and she wants to make sure they can hear her. > > maN puRam pUSi uLLAi ninRa mezhugu URRInARpOl: People > who make vigrahams first make a wax figure, apply cold > clay on the outside , then melt the wax inside and > pour it out. When emperumAn embraced godai, it was > like applying cold clay on the outside. When her heart > melted and turned inside out, it was like heating up > the wax to expel it outside. > > azhagap pirAnAr tammai: He is endowed with the > soundaryam that is so captivating everyone, and I am > totally out of my control. > > en ne'njattu agappaDat tazhuva ninRu: I should > embrace Him in the same form as He is in my heart, > unlike the current state where He eludes me as soon as > I stretch out my hands to embrace Him. When we are > together thus embraced and together just as > bANAsuran's daughter Ushai and kaNNan's grandson > aniruddhan were chained together in the same jail, > then you pour your rain on both of us to your heart's > content; not now when I am alone and depressed. > > C. Additional thoughts from SrI PBA: > > The raining clouds with whom godai had already talked > to in "viNNIla mElAppu" had been the cause of several > things and events that have tortured her (like the > flowers, fruits, the dancing of the peacocks etc). > In addition to killing her through these, the clouds > have now started raining on her and directly hitting > her. Rain during the vislEsha kaLam (viraha tApa > kAlam) is not a welcome event for godai. Hence, she > is requesting them to rain during the samslEsha kAlam, > when the rain's varsham will be "Anandakaram". > > D. Additional thoughts from SrI UV: > > SrI UV gives a couple of alternate interpretations for > this pASuram. One involves taking the phrase "maN > puRam pUSi uLLAi ninRu mezugu URRiNARpOl URRu nal > vE'nkaTattuL" together, and interpreting the phrase > "maN puRam pUSi" to refer to tiruvE'nkaTam Hills, and > mezugu URRiNARpOl to refer to the pouring waterfalls > over the divine Hills. The anubhavam here is that > tiruvE'kaTa malai looks like a huge rock coating over > some object, and bhagavAn is pouring the waterfalls on > these Hills like pouring the molten candle over this > shape. > > The second interpretation is that ANDAL is praying to > the clouds that in addition to their pouring their > waters on her, they should embrace Him and bring him > over and shower Him also on her (azhagap piRAnAr > tammai URRavum). This way, He will be close to her > (ennait tagaittuk koNDu) just as she imagines in her > mind. There is a coating in her mind of the desire to > be close to Him, like the wax coating on the figure > referred to earlier. If the clouds bring Him and pour > Him on her mind (en ne'njattu agappaDat tazhuvik koNDu > ennait tagaittukkoNDu URRavum), the wax of desire will > melt away because her desire would have been > fulfilled. > > ANDAL feels: "Currently, I am looking at objects like > you and my desires grow out of proportions out of > despair. If you rain Him on me in such a way that He > is with me the way I imagine in my heart, then I will > not have to look outside at objects like you any > more": > > ("naishA paSyati rAkshasyo nemAn pushpa phaladrumAn > ekasta hRdayA nUnam rAmamevAnupaSyati" - rAmAyaNam > sundara kANDam ) > > mazhiyE mazhaiyE: Can mean several rain clouds or > clouds that are far away or for calling the clouds > with love to request them for their help [[compare > agastya's words in Aditya hRdayam when calling rAma > with love: > "rAma rAma mahAbAho" in yuddha kANDam ]. > > > > Abbreviations: > ------------------ > PVP= SrI periyavAccAn piLLai > PBA= SrI prativAdi bhayankaram aNNangarAcAriyAr > UV = SrI uttamUr vIrarAghavAcAriyAr > > sarvam SrIman nArAyaNAyeti samarpayAmi. > > adiyEn, > kalyANi kRshNamAcAri > > > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > http://im. > > > -------------------------------- > > -- > View the full archives, /, use the > group calendar at http://www.eGroups.com/list/bhakti-list > Manage your subscriptions at http://eGroups.com > > Free e-mail groups by eGroups.com. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 3, 2000 NARAYANAYA NAMAH; DEAR BHAKTHAS AS A PASSIVE READER OF THE BHAKTHI LIST I WOULD LIKE A SMALL CLARIFICATION ON MAHABHARATHA. IN ONE OF THE NARRATION IT WAS MENTIONED THAT DURIYODHANA WAS CURSED THAT HE WOULD MEET WITH HIS DEATH WHEN IN DEEP PAIN AND IN SORROW. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW BY WHOM WAS HE CURSED AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES. THANKING YOU ALL. BHAKTHA MRS.SRINIVASAN. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
