Question: zriimad ashtaaksharam & zriimad dvayam

[Guest guest]

Dear VaishNavas,

 

just an academic, speculative question.

i apologise if it is inappropriate for public discussion.

 

- Are zriimad askTaaksharam, and zriimad dvayam eternal mantras (ie. zruti) ?

or are they revealed by an avataara of Bhagavan from time to time

as necessary (ie. smrti) ?

 

in other words,

 

- [The mantras are said to have been revealed, respectively,

by badarikaazrama-vaasii zriiman-naaraayaNa rshi and lakshmii-naaraayaNa

rshi.]

Are the rshi-s avataara of zriiman-naaraayaNa for the purpose of

revealing mantras or are they svayam zriiman-naaraayaNa Himself ?

 

[ In the Bhagavad Giita (4.1, 4.2) Lord KrshNa says that He had previously

taught the same Bhagavad Giita to the Sun God, Vivasvaan who taught it

to Manu; Manu in turn taught it to ikshvaaku. but the discplic succession

was broken in course of time. ]

 

..Ram

[Guest guest]

Ram Gopalaswamy <gopalram asks:

>

> - Are zriimad askTaaksharam, and zriimad dvayam eternal mantras (ie. zruti) ?

> or are they revealed by an avataara of Bhagavan from time to time

> as necessary (ie. smrti) ?

>

 

Vedanta Desika covers these topics in Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram.

According to Desika, the ashTaakshara mantra is a Vedic mantra,

and is found in the nArAyaNa upanishad, among other places. It can

become a tantric, i.e., Veda-inspired but not _from_ the Vedas, with

slight modifications, as discussed in a separate thread earlier.

 

The dvaya mantra is a tAntrika mantra that is alluded to in the Vedas.

Reference to it is made in a now-lost section of the Vedas known as

"kaTha Sruti".

 

I do not know whether this makes it technically "smRti".

> Are the rshi-s avataara of zriiman-naaraayaNa for the purpose of

> revealing mantras or are they svayam zriiman-naaraayaNa Himself ?

 

I don't understand the distinction between the two. Could you elaborate?

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

Mani Varadarajan <mani replies:

> Ram Gopalaswamy <gopalram asks:

> >

> > - Are zriimad askTaaksharam, and zriimad dvayam eternal mantras (ie. zruti)

?

> > or are they revealed by an avataara of Bhagavan from time to time

> > as necessary (ie. smrti) ?

> >

>

> Vedanta Desika covers these topics in Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram.

> According to Desika, the ashTaakshara mantra is a Vedic mantra,

> and is found in the nArAyaNa upanishad, among other places. It can

> become a tantric, i.e., Veda-inspired but not _from_ the Vedas, with

> slight modifications, as discussed in a separate thread earlier.

>

> The dvaya mantra is a tAntrika mantra that is alluded to in the Vedas.

> Reference to it is made in a now-lost section of the Vedas known as

> "kaTha Sruti".

>

> I do not know whether this makes it technically "smRti".

>

> > Are the rshi-s avataara of zriiman-naaraayaNa for the purpose of

> > revealing mantras or are they svayam zriiman-naaraayaNa Himself ?

>

> I don't understand the distinction between the two. Could you elaborate?

>

> Mani

>

>

 

Dear Sri.Mani,

 

Thanks for the information.

 

Please excuse my vague writing. I meant to ask:

 

Who are the naaraayaNa rshis ?

a. saakshaat vibhava avataara or

b. some kind of aaveza avataara.

 

 

Sri SM Srinivasa Chari talks about different types of vibhava avataara

in his book, "Vaishnavism" .

 

My understanding from the book:

 

- saakshaat avataara or direct descent of zriiman-naaraayaNa with

His Absolute Transcendental Form (divya-mangala-vigraha) looking outwardly

like a living entity.

[ The Supreme Lord descends with His pure internal potency (suddha satva)

and He is _unaffected_ (avyayam) by the three modes of material nature.]

 

Example: zrii KrshNa, zrii nrsmha, zrii varaaha, zrii Raama etc

[ My guess is that zriimad bhagavad-giita, is revered as

smrti-prasthaana (ie foremost of authored works) because

it was spoken the saakshaat avataara, zrii KrshNa. ]

 

- aaveza avataara or divine empowerment of devotees.

Different types of aaveza include:

a. Pervasion of spiritual divine body of the Lord into the body of

an individual (eg. Parazu-raama avataara.)

b. Infusion of divine power into an individual (zaktyaaveza)

(eg Sage Sri Vyaasadeva)

 

39 vibhava avataaras mentioned in the ahirbudhnya samhita include

(nara and ) naaraayaNa as avataaras.

 

 

..Ram.

 

 

PS: BTW, is the title "rshi" reserved exclusively for sages to

whom vedas were revealed ?