Re:

[Guest guest]

At 07:55 PM 8/4/97 -0500, Krishnamachari, N. wrote:

> Sri VishNu SahasranAmam - nAma 46 to 55.

>

>46. aprameyah - One who cannot be defined, explained, measured, etc.

>through logical means, (but who can only be experienced)

>

> pramAtum na yogya: aprameyah -

>

> He is beyond reach through normal means because

>

 

 

+++++++++++++

 

good stuff deleted.

 

 

I think one should read these meanings of Vishnu Sahasranama in depth. I

am sure Sri Krishnamachari is enjoying the deep meanings of the vishnu

sahasrama bhasyas. I was reading the connection between the names and

vedic passages. It is very revealing and yogic in meaning. I think the

vishnu-sahasranama's deep meanings when viewed with an orientation from the

point of view of upanisads and Bhagavadgita gives a unique thrilling

realization. I think, If blessed by bhagavatas, I will pursue some deep

study into this subject.

 

 

Adiyen

Krishna Kalale

[Guest guest]

RANGASWAMY wrote:

> Finally, the most significant contribution of Sri Andal is the

> beautiful

> portrayal of the all pervasiveness of Lord Narayana through the

> salutations

> "UnnakkE NamAzhchaivOm" and "NarayaNanE NammakE ParatharuvAn"

>

 

The use of NaaraayaNanE and namakkE is significant in the paasuram.Why

should Andal use naaraayaNanE instead of naaraayaNan?

Why should she use namakkE instead of namakku?

 

Our poorvaachaaryaas say that the use of naaraayaNanE in this paasuram

is

to give us the message that it is NaaraayaNan *alone* who can give us

mOksha. There is nothing we do, or nothing we can do that will do the

same.

 

And namakkE is used to mean 'even us, who do not know anything, and who

are living in this samsaaram, without realising out swaroopa gnyaanam'.

It is

real humbling to note that this is being said by the gOpiyars in the

paasuram,

who probably were the closest to being parama bhaagavathaas, because

they knew

of nothing other than Krishna and wanted nothing other than Him.

 

Aazhvaar emperumaanaar jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saranam,

Varadhan

[Guest guest]

Dear bhagavathaas,

 

I beg you pardon for responding to this non-SV issue on the list.

But, after reading the following article, I felt that it was necessary to

present the right picture. After all, tamizh is half of ubhaya vEdAntam,

and what makes SriVaishnavam unique is the devotional paasurams of the

AzhvArs and the lucid commentaries of our AchAryAs on the pAsurams.

 

Sri. BElur dAsarathy quotes from an article:

> Can the language fanatics achieve the beauty of these lines in any

> other language? Of course not!" hissed a Sanskrit lover angrily.

> Irrespective of the caste they belong to, irrespective of the class

> they belong to, the rest of the Sanskrit bhakta (devotee) clan echoed

> similar sentiments.

 

The beauty of the language, as perceived by the listener very much

dependson the listener. Let us not make any decisions for others. It

does,

however, make sense to me that the more one understands a language, the

more the appreciation is for that language. So, if one does not understand

 

sanskrit, the beauty of the verses quoted above may not mean anything to

the person listening.

> Tamilians, as a whole, are militantly passionate about their language

> and culture.

 

Fiction. The above is the common misconception that people

outsidetamizhnAdu have. The fact is that tamizh is a very very unique,

ancient

language that has managed to retain its identity, probably more so than

the

other south Indian languages. There is little need for an average tamilian

 

to know Sanskrit/Hindi. We SriVaishnavites try to learn sanskrit because

of our sampradAyam. The people of tamizhnAdu are passionate about

our language and culture, but so are the people from any other

state/country.

 

> And it was expected that the Tamil people would sing

> hosannas about state Tamil Development Minister Tamilkudi Magan's

> instruction that all temples in Tamil Nadu would henceforth perform

> archanas (prayers) in Tamil, instead of the original Sanskrit. But 99

> per cent of those I spoke to (and I spoke to nearly 50 people) were

> none too happy with the interference of politicians in religious

> matters. And they expressed both their hostility and unhappiness in

> very strong terms.

 

Who were the people interviewed? Was there any bias in those people?On a

*broad generalized* note, I personally may find tamizh archanas much

more meaningful than samskrit archanas because I can understand them.

How does the author of this article expect someone who has no knowledge

of sanskrit to appreciate for example, the purusha suktham, more than

let us say - the mudhal thiruvandhAdhi?

> "Devotion is not bound by language. What is important is the

> satisfaction a devotee gets by listening to the chanting of the

> mantras (hymns) in Sanskrit. No other language in the world can

> imitate the resonance of this chanting or replicate its soul-stirring

> effect. This decision by the government is utter nonsense. How is it

> that these people, who do not believe in God, are suddenly interested

> in what happens within the precincts of a temple? They should leave

> these matters to those who believe in the Almighty."

 

The satisfaction that a devotee gets probably will be much more if

s/heunderstands what is being said. The 'resonance' aspect is a personal

statement that should not be used for generalizations.

> On a more

> practical note, he strongly feels tradition should not be dishonoured

> or abandoned.

 

This, I do agree with. However, one has to note that if emperumAnAr hadnot

broken with the brahminical traditions, we would not have our

sampradAyam.

 

> Besides, he believes none of the people who go to a

> temple actually listen to the mantras since they are too immersed in

> communicating their problems to God.

 

In sanskrit, I presume!.

> "The essence of the words are lost when Sanskrit is

> translated into Tamil because Tamil is just not as rich a language,

> not does it have as many alphabets. I know Sanskrit, and Tamil is my

> mother tongue. But when I read certain translations, I find my

> language lacking in many things. So, it is better to do the archana in

> Sanskrit itself.

 

The above is a very very misleading statement. The translation of

something intotamizh is a function of how knowledgeable the translator is

in tamizh and

the language from which s/he is translating, and the eloquence that s/he

has.

 

Let us all try to keep things in perspective. The above is an article

probably aimed at government poking its nose into temple affairs. I just

want to caution bhagavathaas from reading too much into / inferring

anything from the

above article vis-a-vis tamizh/sanskrit.

 

Daasan,

Varadhan

[Guest guest]

Dear BhakthAs :

 

The greatness of Swami Sri NammAzhwAr

is so profound that it stirs deep emotions in

all of us and wants us to learn more to

tune our mind towards the SaraNya Dampathis.

HIS PRABHANDHAMS PURIFY EVERYONE , WHO COME

ACROSS THEM .

 

My descriprtion of myself is exactly described AS

"Seelamilla SiRiyOn " . My public recognition

of the Kaimkaryam of Sri MadhavakkaNNan is

something I wanted to do , because of the

importance of his Kaimkaryam .That was all .

I am sure that many BhakthAs

have written privately about the benefits

that they derive by reading his INFORMATIVE postings.

I wish him continued success to complete

this mile stone of a kaimkaryam .

ParAnkusa Daasan

V.SadagOpan

 

>

>

>____

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anand Srinivasan <asriniva

 

>

>I had similar doubts on the actual historical occurence of the events

>described in the puraanas and thinking that these are allegorical stories

>is clearly not satisfactory. My thought process was similar to that

>described by Sri. Krishna Susarla.

 

 

Hare Krishna!

 

Just to clarify my position, I do *not* accept the "mythology" or "allegory"

speculation, although I did think along those lines when I was younger and

relatively ignorant. I do presently accept that the itihaasa-s and puraaNa-s

are historical documents, although their purpose specifically is to

illustrate the teachings of shruti and not simply to narrate a chronological

account of events. So when the Raamaayana says the Shrii Hanumaan flew

across the Indian Ocean to get to Lanka, we can take that to mean that he

did in fact fly and not swam. And when it says that Lord Raamachandra

single-handedly defeated 14,000 demons from Raavana's brother's army, we can

also accept that that is, in fact, exactly what happened. There are places

in the smR^iti-shaastra-s where allegorical tales are related, but when that

is done it is very clear from context. There is no reason to assume that

everything we read in the itihaasa/puraaNa is allegorical or greatly

exaggerated, as is often the hypothesis adopted by Westernized Hindus.

>Along similar lines, I had a question that I am sure some of the members

>of this group would be able to answer.

>

>what about the experiences of other religious leaders for example -

>Jesus Christ, Mohammed ..

>Is one to reject the notion that these are true experiences /

>true religions. If these are true, what explains the dramatic

>difference in the religious rules on diet, rituals etc ?

>

>If one rejects these as false / allegorical, then how can we claim

>that those "extra sensory" perceptions by the indian sages are historical

>facts but those in other religions are myth?

 

 

We don't have to denounce everyone else's religious experiences as

mythological, especially if we have no evidence to contradict them. But this

is not the same as accepting them wholesale either.

 

The difference between what we regard as historical and what members of

other religions regard as historical is that our histories come from

scriptures which are apaurusheya, and thus free from all defects inherent in

conditioned living beings. By contrast, the stories chronicled in the Koran,

the Bible, etc are acknowledged by members of their respective faiths to

have been written by certain people at some time. So those kinds of sources

can not be accepted as independently authoritative, since accepting them as

flawless requires that we believe that their authors were also beyond flaw.

This does not mean they are totally wrong either, but it does mean that they

may present contradictory information which need not be accepted.

 

More to the point, those aren't our religions anyway. So their histories or

mythologies aren't directly relevant to us.

>

>For that matter, even within Sanata Dharma, such differences exist!!

 

 

I don't understand. Please clarify.

>I trust that these questions do not offend anybody. If so, you have my

>apologies, and hope that you will excuse my ignorance.

>

>Anand Srinivasan

 

 

yours,

 

-- H. Krishna Susarla

[Guest guest]

"Shri Bhoomi Neela Sametha Shri LakshmiNrusimha ParaBramhaneya Namaha"

 

 

 

 

 

dear sri vaishnavaas

 

 

we all know that while chanting Gaayathri and Ashtakshara we cover our palms

with the "uthriyam / male vasthram"..

 

These manthraas are to be chanted in silence and only with "Mudhraas" remember

only these manthraas have "Simha Mudhra" these "Mudhraas" are very important ...

 

Adiyen've read that it is something simillar to "Sthri Purusha Sangamam" ..here

the Jeeva is engaged with the Bramhan...

 

So adiyen humbly feel the manthra which actually enables the communion is not to

be revealed out or to be seen...

 

and u know what adiyen meant by giving the anology

 

of course u have "dhvayam" which can be chanted any where any time as it has no

"kaala desha varthamaanaam"

 

so if seen from a strict Shruthi point of view it is wrong if one reveals the

"Manthraas"....

 

Remember "ShriBashyakaarar" @ "Thirukootiyoor" did not reveal the "Manthraas"

whereas he revealed the concept of "prapathi" and the essence of "Manthraas"

 

Actually to do "Bramhopadhesaa" the "Swami"/ "Brugaspathi" actullay does few

lakhs of "gayathri japaam" to make himself eligible to do the "upadhesha" to the

"vadu" but only very few follow this and not all know the importance of this..

 

and "Ashtakshraa" as we all know when it is initiated... how it is initiated...

and what instructions the "aachaaryaa" gives when he does the "upadheshaa"

 

 

regs

dhasaanu dhaasan

venkataragahava dhaasan

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Namaskarams.

> The Alvar was unfortunately quoted in the wrong context,

> in my opinion, and has been given a bad name. But please

> think about it without getting emotional, and while you may

> not necessarily agree with his sentiment, accept them as

> the feelings expressed at one time of a great devotee of

> the Lord, said out of a desire to defend Him.

>

> thondar-adip-podi aazhvaar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

>

> Mani

 

Sri Bhagavadhothamas, pls. let me tell you that I didn't really

mean to cause bhagavatha apacharam to Srimad Thondar-adi-podi and

other bhagavathas. But I only wanted to express a general opinion

in the existing present scenario. I can definitely feel the ardent

devotion that the azhwar has for the Lord. Yes. sometimes true bhaktas

go to such extents. But only thing is that this sounds similar

to Islamic doctrine which holds the same thing. ie. if anybody abuses

or causes dishonour to their darma or to their Lord, they can be

killed. But we chide such policies of other darmas as being unduly

harsh. [ Of course obviously Islam on the whole will not stand on

par in its spiritual maturity and in preaching Universal Love to

sanatana darma. ] But here, we DO feel a kind of immature partiality/bias

showed by individuals towards what their community follows. How do

jeevathmas take birth in families following different religions? What

decides this?

I beg forgiveness from the pure azhwar for not having expressed

clearly what I felt and hence causing apacharam and making bhagavathas

feel bad.

 

thondar adi podi ennum uyar gunak kunRE!

ninnadip podi yAn siram ittEn un padhatthE

agilANda kOdi brahmANda nAyagan

pugazh siram EtRuk kAtthu ninRu

meitthoNdu AtRidum sIriya utthamA!

unnidam vENdinEn pala kOdi mannippu

endhan siRu manam seidha pizhaiyinai

maRandhuvandhu poRuppAi nAraNan than aNiyE!

 

adiyEn,

chandrasekaran.

[Guest guest]

Dear Venkat,

 

The words 'Yezh Yezh Piravi...... ' is a figuartive expression. It does not

mean 7x7= 49. Though Soodik Kodutha Sudark Kodi is Saakshaat Bhoomi Devi and

knows that she will have no "Piravi', we should understand that it refers to

the sentiment the jeeva should develop in relation to the Lord. It refers to

the ' unending cycle of births, deaths and death of deaths (i.e. rebirths) to

which jeevas are subject to (unlsess of course, they cease to have further

births by resorting to Bhakti or Prapatti). The words should be understood as

'Yezhum, Yezhum. Piravi," i.e. countless births that arise for the Jeevas. It

means that even if due to Karma one should go through innumerable births,

there should be one thought that should prevail and run through throughout all

these lives viz., that one is inseparably and inextricably related to the

Parbrahmam. The words suggest a reference to ' Samsara Sagaram' where the

rise and fall, the flow and the ebb of births take place like the waves in the

ocean.

 

On a personal note, once I wrote to my Acharya, Srimad Andavan of

Poundarikapuram Ashramam, that I knew no means to repay the debt of gratitude

for him even if I take a million births. In the postscript, I added, how

foolish I had been to express a sentment thus. Why ? I would have no occasion

to do anything about it, since he had already gotten rid of Punarjanmam for me

by performing Bharanyasam ! And, he appreciated the sentiment in the

Postscript more than what had been stated earlier !

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

[Guest guest]

"SHREE BHOOMI NEELAA SAMAETHA SHRI LAKSHMI NRUSIMHA PARABRAMANEYA NAMAHA"

 

 

Anaeka koti Vandhanaas for all Baagavadhothamaas.....

 

Adiyaen have another small clarification.....

 

In her famous Thirupaavai "Soodi Koduthaa Naachiyaar" says

 

"Yetraikkum Yezh Yezh Piravikkum Undhannodu Utroomae aavom Umakae Naam Aat

Cheyvom"

 

Why should she mention Yezh Yezh Piravi......

 

May be this is a stupid question and adiyaen is also stupid to have asked

this question...

 

 

with best regsrds

 

dhaasaanu dhaasan

 

Venkataraghava dhaasan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Venkat Iyengar :

 

Here is an insert that you can use in the home page :

 

On October 12 ,1998 the Godha priya Kaimkarya

Sabha (GPKS)of Chennai presented ThiruvAbharaNams for

Soodikkoduttha NaacchiyAr of SriVilliputthur.

Sri GodhA pirAtti adorned these ThiruvAbharaNams

presnted by the GPKS of Chennai and gave adhbhutha Sevai

to all the assembled BhakthAs as the queen of the Universe

(RaaNi Sevai ).

 

Special paavAdai and blouse inlaid with multicolored stones ,

a crown embroiderd with pearls and semi-precious stones ,

ear pieces , Jatakothsu ,necklace ,parrot , Thindu

and fan were presented to our NaacchiyAr on this occasion.

With the accompaniument of Naadhasvaram , MeLam and Koil

Mariyadhai, the ThiruvAbharaNams were first taken

in procession around the raja Veedhis and inner prakAram

and then were presented formally by Dr.V.Sadagopan , the President of

GPKS to the Executive officer of ANDAL THirukkOil.

 

The ThiruvAbharaNmas were designed by Srimathi Padma Veeraraghavan,

the secretary of the GPKS of Chennai . Srimathi Vanjula Narasimhan ,

Srimathi Raja Laksmi Raghavan, Srimathi Lakshmi Gopala Swami ,

Srimathi Dharini Mukundan were the other office bearers of

the GPKS participated in this unique presentation function .

 

Kainkarya Sri Seva Swamy , a stalwart of Swami Desika

Darsanam presided over the religious portion of

the presentation function and received agra tAmpUlam

at the Sathas .Next Thirumanjanam was performed for

Sri GodhA Piratti and Her divine consort . Special Mathurai

Mullai flower garlands custom crafted for the occasion

and the new AbharaNms adorned the Queen of RangamannAr

next. Our Mother looked radiant in Her new AbharaNams

and blessed Her children .

 

The GPKS of Chennai under the leadership of

Srimathi Padma Veeraraghavan had presented

in previous years KrishNan Kondai for ANDAL

and Raaja Paandyan Kondai for Sri RangamannAr.

The velvet for the Kaimkaryams were donated by

Vasantha-Varadachar Dampathis of Hyderabad.

 

May the Karuna kataksham of Sri VishNuchittha

Kulanandana Kalpavalli fall on all of us and

bless us as the BhaudhAnya Margahzi commences!

 

sathamakha maNineelA chAruklahAra hasthA

sthanabharanamithAngI sAndhra Vaatsalya sindhu:I

alakavinihithAbhi: sragbhirArushta nAthA

Vilasathu Hrudhi GodhA VishnuchittAthmaJA na:II

 

Soodikkoduttha NaacchiyAr ThiruvadigaLE SaraNam

 

DaasAnu Daasan Oppilliappan Koil Varadachari Sadagopan

President , GodhA priyA kainkarya SabhA , Chennai

BahudhAnya Samvathsara Marghazhi Maasa PiRappu Dinam

December 16, 1998.

 

 

At 11:52 AM 12/15/98 +0000, you wrote:

>Dear sir,

>.i am planning to put up a NEWS AND RECENT EVENTS PAGE for the

>srivilliputtur website.if the pics of abharna samarpanam are not yet ready

> you can send me a short writeup on the abharna samarpanam event for

>immediate inclusion in the page and the pictures can be added on

>subsequently as they become available.

>

>Thank you

>adiyen

>Venkat s Iyengar

[Guest guest]

"V. Srimahavishnu" <vsri wrote:

> ... I am unable to agree with SrI Sreenath Chakravarthy that PiLLai

> lOkAchAryar's disciplic succession was called "Ten"kalai because they

> preferred Tamil and that of VEdAnta DESikar called "Vada"kalai for their

> preferring sanskrit,for this theory was not known in those days.

 

While a debate over the origin of Sanskrit is outside

the scope of this list [*], Sanskrit was and is acknowledged

by all Tamilians, including the Alvars, as "vadamozhi" or

"vadacol", the language of the north. (See Kulasekhara

Alvar's perumaaL thirumozhi 1.4, where the Alvar speaks

of Tamil and "vadamozhi" Sanskrit.)

 

While holding Sanskrit in great respect, the Alvars

(as with most other Tamilians) preferred to compose in

their native tongue of Tamil.

 

I agree, however, that this is most probably _not_ the origin

of the terms "vadagalai" and "thengalai".

 

Mani

 

[*] Readers interested in the linguistic history of Sanskrit

should browse the archives of the INDOLOGY discussion group,

where this topic has been debated many times:

 

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Sri Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

Sri Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrivaNN-

SatakOpa Sri nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear Sri Sridharan,

namO nArAyaNA.

 

>

> I had also posed the question to a Vaishnavite sanyasi of Guadia

> persuation and quote below his response to my querry for members'

> information please. Again thanks for the responses.

>

> "In response to your question about Prapathi, it is a fact that the

> sins of the disciple are eradicated by that process. In turn, the sins are

> transferred to the diksa-guru. Again, it is a fact that "he takes the sins

> of his new disciple upon himself".

 

First of all, that Gaudiya SanyAsi is refering to "initiation" process

(parallel to SamASrayanam) ; Prapatti is not SamASrayanam ;

please refer to the posts on bhakti and prapatti.

 

If all the sins are transferred to someone, we can no more be here

in the material world. Only when the prapanna leaves this body

and enters into Sri VaikuNTham through the arcirAdi mArgam,

does all the karmA gets wiped off. SwAmi DeSikan discusses this

in detail in Srimad Rahasyatraya sAram ( those who are kindly

disposed to the prapannA who attained moksham will get the

prapannA's left out punyams ; those who are antagonistic to the

prapannA will get the pApams ).

 

Sanchita karmAs (those which hasn't started to yield the effect)

are eradicted by prapatti. Also, the left over prArabdha karmA

after leaving this body is destroyed by prapatti. But, prArabdha

karmA will still be acting (as long as the body exists).

 

>

> You then ask "What is the implication for the aspirant?" The

> implication for the aspirant is that they are obliged to no longer commit

> further sins. According to Padma Purana, there are ten offenses to be

> avoided when calling upon the Lord's holy name for purification. The

> seventh offense listed indicates that it is offense to continue to commit

> sins on the strength of the purification that one has received by calling

> upon the Lord's holy name. In this particular case, for having received

> the eradication of one's past sins by the process of Prapathi, one should

> likewise refrain from further sins."

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam

[Guest guest]

--- narayan jagan wrote:

> If Ramanuja belonged to the vadama subset of brahmins,then was he an

> iyer?.One of my

> iyer friends argued with me that afterall we required only an iyer to

> revive

> vaishnavism.

 

Well, I think you have mixed up at least three terms:

 

1. Iyer : This is a modern appellation. There is no epigraphic evidence to

show that such a term was in use at the time of Sri Ramanuja. (12th

century)

2. Vaishnavism: I am not clear what exactly you mean by this term. As far

as I am concerned, there was no great need to 'revive' it. It was not in

any danger. Well, Sri Ramanuja's unprecedented success at establishing the

Sri Sampradaya endangered him personally, due to sectarian jealousies

prevailing at that time, e.g., Krimikantha cOza etc..

3. You seem to imply that the term "Iyer" denotes Saiva or at least

non-Vaishnava.

>He claims that none

> of the great philosophers and leaders of vaishnavism were vaishnavas

> by birth but only smarthas.Even the brahmin alwars were not

> vaishnavas but only saivaites or iyers who follow siva.

 

It is true that Sri Ramanuja, Sri Desika and Sri Manavala Mamunikal , by

"caste" if you insist, belonged to the Vadama Smartha community. This just

means that they are vaidika brahmins and they belong to the northern

subsect. These people were mostly situated around the TonDaimanDalam area,

although Sri Manavala Mamunikal hailed from kiDAram in Tirunelveli Dt..

Vadama as opposed to Brihatcharanam or Ashtasahasram ("eNNAyirattavar")

sects. Periya Nambi, for example, belonged to the Brihatcharanam subsect.

 

 

Take the case of Brahmin AlwAr's: most of them came from Vaishnava

families. PeriyAlwar who was a pUrvasikhA (munkuDumi) brahmana says:

 

entantai tantai tantai tammUttappan EzpaDikAltoDanki

vantu vazivazi AtceykinROm (TiruppallANDu

verse 6)

 

This just means that he belongs to a family that for many generations have

been staunch Vishnu worshippers. Sri Ramanuja himself was a great

worshipper of Lord Varadaraja of Kanchi. Sri Nathamuni and Sri Alavandar

were Chief priests at the SriRangam temple.

>The whole concept of vaishnavism started only recently

> and 1000 years back none of the brahmins were vaishnavs i.e iyengars >

but only iyers.

 

Vaishnavism has been there since the Vedic times, if you mean devotion to

Vishnu by the term Vaishnavism.

> The concept of iyengars was started only by ramanuja.Is it true?

 

Iyengar is a caste appellation of recent times (16th century or so). For

example, KandADai RAmAnuja AyyangAr who figures in a major way in the

history of Tirumala was not even a Brahmin. Likewise PeriyavAccAnpiLLai,

the prince among commentators, was a purvasikha brAhmana, not a piLLai as

your friend might think ;-)))

Sri Ramanuja however was a Vedantacharya (teacher of Vedanta) and founder

of our Sampradaya. Followers of this sampradaya are called SriVaishnavas.

>He also claims that vedas and shastras speak only about the

> greatness of the vibuthi and not thiruman or the srichornam and

therefore > tha smarthas are superior and they are true brahmins

 

It is clear that your esteemed friend neither knows the vedas nor the

shastras nor has he used his eyes and looked at the foreheads of Vadama

Iyers. Most Iyers of Vadama sub-sect until recently used to wear gobi

chandanam than vibhuti.

 

Please also understand that traditionally most Vadama Iyers are most

comfortable worshipping Sriman Narayana than other gods. There are very

few exclusive Siva worshippers among Iyers (ananyArhasEshatvam is a

concept developed and documented at length by Sri Alavandar).

 

To be sure there are some like Sri U Ve Caminatha Iyer but then his

father's personal name is Venkatasubbu Iyer and his own given name is

Venkataraman. He says in his "En carittiram" that their kuladeivam was the

Lord of Venkatam. But you must realize that his father was a ganam

musician and he himself spent all his life hunting down palm leaf

manuscripts, so both Father and Son spent considerable amount of time with

Saiva Vellala Pillaimar. His Father's patrons were mostly Pillai's. Again

MahaVaidyanatha Iyer might be cited as an exclusive Saiva. But please

remember he also was a musician. There are compulsions of patronage.

 

This kind of arguments (i.e., Iyer/Iyengar type arguments) start mainly

because some Iyers do not understand their own background very well i.e.,

they worship both Siva and Vishnu and perhaps other gods too. Also

because, their is inadequate understanding of SriVaishnava sampradaya.

 

In this understanding Iyers and Iyengars are seen as two sides of the same

coin, one as Siva worshippers and the other as Vishnu worshippers. It

should be realized that Iyers have never been exclusive Saivas as Iyengars

have been exclusive Vishnu worshippers.

 

Also, the term SriVaishnava includes not just Brahmins but all those

Vaishnavas who belonged to the sampradaya. For example, when Sri

Ramanuja's body was taken for burial at SriRangam, there were 700 jIyars

(i.e., Sannyasins) chanting the bhrguvalli, brahmavalli, nArAyaNAnuvaka

(viz., the Vedas), 9000 SriVaishnavas wearing the sacred thread on their

shoulders and 12,000 devotees without the sacred thread were chanting the

hymns of the Alwars. (vide GuruparamparaprabhAvam)

 

So you can see your friend's just quoting a set of "attaipppATTi kathai"

i.e., old wives' tales ;-)))

 

Please tell your friend all these points. If he does not listen, please

request him to correspond with me directly. If he does not do that, you

have no recourse but to hit him on the head with a blunt object ;-)))

 

Lakshmi Srinivas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

[Guest guest]

SrI:

SrI Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaNN-

SatakOpa SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear Smt Shoba Srinivasan,

namO nArAyaNA.

>

> I checked with allmost all the madhwa mutts and many scholars over these

> past months regarding the said debate. There is no madhwa swamiji by name

> Sri SathyAnanda theerta who lived in 1900s. Usually, Uttaraya mutt has

> swamijis with name begining with Sathya. There was one Sri SathyAnanda

> theerta who lived in 1600s. So the name and time frame do not match.

>

 

Thanks for your kind information. I checked with the book

"AchArya Vaibhavam anubandham" published by Sri VisishtAdvaita

Research Center , Madras. An article in it contains the gist of

the debate in sanskrit also. Sri SathyAnanda teerthar is reported

to be the matAdhipati of UttarAdi Mutt. The time frame of the debate

is around that of 1930s. I will also try to gather some more details.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam

[Guest guest]

namaskAram.

It is very important that nitya karmas are not forsaken for any reason.

Especially in the case of sandhya vandhanam, it is doubly important that we

make an effort to perform it with sincerity every day. THere is absolutely

no basis to set an age limitation on performing the sandhyA vandhanam. Nor

is there an age limitation to start doing it. THere are inumerable instances

where gAyathri has been mentioned as a "parO mantrah" the greatest among

mantras. She should be in our minds at all times. The important thing to

remember while doing the sandhya vandhanam is that we are doing to please

Sriman nArAyaNa, who is Lord Supreme and not for any other reason.

The proper procedures for performing the sandhya vandhanam are not learnt

from a web site or book. The reason for this is that the proper

intonation/pronounciation for all the mantras is not to be learnt from a

book, but from some one who knows it well and can teach you verbally and can

also correct your mistakes. Please approach a nearby temple priest or some

such learned person to learn this.

Having said this, I also suggest that you take a look at the following

site, which I believe has specific details. Please bear in mind, this is no

substitute for learning this from a Guru.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/2627/tsandhya.html

 

om namO bhagavate vAsudevAya.

Vaidya.

 

-

narayan jagan <narayan_jagan

<bhakti

Monday, May 10, 1999 9:41 PM

 

> Dear friends

>

> I had my upanayanam when i was 17 .Iam 20 now .I 've not been doing my

> sandhyavandhanam

> as most people say that there is no use doing sandhya vandhanam after one

is

> 16.Shall i

> start now or is it too late?.Should i wear both the thiruman as well as

the

> srichoornam before doing sandhyavandhanam.

> Can anybody give me neccessary advice in this regard?.Is there any site

> about sandyavandhanam procedures?

>

> Srininivasa Dasan

> Narayan

>

>

> ____

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

SrI:

SrI Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaNN-

SatakOpa SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear devotees,

namO nArAyaNA.

 

 

Sri Sadagopan wrote :

> Devi Bhagavtham is a huge book and covers a lot of

> ground including incidents referred to in the other purAnams.

> It glorifies DEvi (Sri LalithA ParamEsvari in

> Her many forms ) as the Supreme deity .

>

> Sri VaishNavAs are not very familar with it and

> do not make use of it as a source grantham for their needs.

>

 

adiyEn would like to just add here that though the

SriVaishnavAs have no concerns about what has

been explained in dEvi bhAgavatham, SriVaishnava AchAryas

are certainly _very much familiar_ with it. Personally,

adiyEn knows Sri U.Ve. KarunAkaran swAmi, who has good

knowledge about dEvi bhAgavatham. Its entirely a different

issue as to whether the descriptions in that book are

in accordance with vEdAs. Its thus obvious as to why

SriVaishnavAs don't make use of it for their needs.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam

[Guest guest]

Anand wrote:

> As far as adiyEn's knowledge goes, thennAchArya

> sampradAyam counts the 4000 pAsurams, without the

> inclusion of SrI amudhanAr's "rAmAnuja nootrandAdi".

> But, adiyEn knows for sure that the vadagalai-AchArya

> sampradAyam counts the 4000 pAsurams with its inclusion.

>

> adiyEn requests for clarification in this issue, with

> respect to the count recognized by thennAchArya sampradAyam.

 

You are correct. According to Appillai, a disciple of Sri

Manavaala Maamunigal, the "iraamanusa nooRRandhaadhi" of Amudanaar

is stricly not part of the enumerated 4000 verses of the

Divya Prabandham. This is because of an alternate way

of counting the verses of Siriya Thirumadal and Periya Thirumadal.

Strictly speaking, as per Tamil poetics they should be

counted as one verse each. However, our acharyas have

ingeniously counted them in other ways as well. Sri Vedanta

Desika enumerates these as 40 and 78 "songs" respectively in his

Prabandha Saaram. In the other "school" of counting, they are

counted in terms of couplets, in which case it is 77.5 and 148.5

couplets respectively.

 

If we follow Desika and take them as 40 and 78 songs each,

we have to add the 108 songs of iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi

to make a round 4000 songs. This is what Desika does, and

this is why the Vadagalai tradition considers the iraamaanusa

nooRRandhaadhi part of the Iyarpa.

 

If we follow Appillai and count couplets, we can arrive at

4000 without the iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi, and consequently

this poem is considered an appendix to the entire 4000, and

not part of the Iyarpa.

 

If we count the madals as one song each, as Puttur Krishnaswamy Iyengar

does in a recent publication, we arrive short of the count of

4000. However, traditionally, such counts need not be exact,

just as the 1102 songs of Nammalvar are regularly declared

to by "aayiram" or 1000. So even though we fall short of 4000,

calling them the "4000 songs" is still acceptable.

 

When Sri Sadagopan writes that

> MM however ruled that the centum devoted to his dear AchArya

> RaamAnujA should be part of the 4000 count and followed the

> adhyayana niyamam for this prabhandham in line with the practise

> for the other Prabhandhams .

 

it should be understood that the "iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi",

while perhaps not in the *count* of the 4000, is treated on an

equal level. All Sri Vaishnavas recite the iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi

immediately following the "periya thirumadal", on the last day

of the adhyayana series. In addition, during the "an-adhyayana"

period, just as the paasurams of the Alvars are not recited,

iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi is also not recited.

 

So the difference between Desika's and Appillai's traditions are

merely enumerations, and nothing else. This is the point of Maamunigal.

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani Varadarajan : Many thanks for your

input.Same type of counting approximations go for

Sri Ranganatha PaadhukhA Sahasram ,which has 1008 verses

instead of the exact count of 1000 . Yet it is named

a sahasram by Swami Desikan .

 

V.Sadagopan

>

>When Sri Sadagopan writes that

>

>> MM however ruled that the centum devoted to his dear AchArya

>> RaamAnujA should be part of the 4000 count and followed the

>> adhyayana niyamam for this prabhandham in line with the practise

>> for the other Prabhandhams .

>

>it should be understood that the "iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi",

>while perhaps not in the *count* of the 4000, is treated on an

>equal level. All Sri Vaishnavas recite the iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi

>immediately following the "periya thirumadal", on the last day

>of the adhyayana series. In addition, during the "an-adhyayana"

>period, just as the paasurams of the Alvars are not recited,

>iraamaanusa nooRRandhaadhi is also not recited.

>

>So the difference between Desika's and Appillai's traditions are

>merely enumerations, and nothing else. This is the point of Maamunigal.

>

>Mani

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nandakumar:

 

As a person associated with temple administration, I would support the

views of Sthalasthar. One should not yield to money pressure eventhough it

is practical. The question becomes - where does one draw the line. If you

yield to this request (however genuine) many more such situations will come.

 

Vijayaraghavan

Buffalo, NY

 

>"Nandakumar" <premnand

>

>Dear Friends: A controversy has arisen because a donor from Hosur wants to

>gift a golden chariot to Lord Ranganatha at Srirangam for devotees to

>fulfil vows (nerthi-kadan). The Sthalathar and other eminent people

>associated with the temple and its history are not happy and say the image

>of the Lord cannot be brought out in procession as and when one likes but

>only according to the centuries-old rules laid down by Sri Ramanuja and

>traditions. The Executive Officer (appointed by the Government) feels that

> golden chariot processions of the Lord for devotees to fulfil their vows

>would augument the income of the temple. I would like to have your

>reactions, if any. Prema Nandakumar

>

>

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

At 06:46 PM 6/22/00 +0530, Sri K.M.Narayanan wrote:

>Respected Swamin,

>You had referred in your mail,

>

>"AaathmAnam raThinam Viddhi"

>

>"Could you inform me where do we find this verse and

>what is the full verse ..Please help

>

>Dasan

>K.M.Narayanan

 

Dear Sriman Narayanan :

 

Thanks for your note. Other BhakthAs might be intersted

in this information as well .Hence I am copying the list.

 

This Sruthi (Upanishadic) passage is from

the third valli of kaThopanishad : Manthram 3.

The entire manthram is:

 

aathmAnam raThinam viddhi sarIram raThamEva cha

buddhim thu saaraThim viddhi Mana: pragrahamEva cha

 

AathmAnam is the Jeevan; RaThinam is the Lord of the chariot;

SarIram is the raTham (Chariot) ; Buddhi is the SaaraThi

(Charioteer);Mana: is the pragraham( reins).

 

 

The next manthram of the KaThopanishad takes

the analogy one step further:

 

indhriyANi hayAnAhur-vishayAmsthEshu gOcharAn

aathmEndhriya manOyuktham bhOthyAhur-manIshiNa:

 

The IndhriAs (5 sense organs & 5 karmEndhriyAs))

are the horses that draw the chariot of the body ;

VishayAn thEshu gOcharAn= for them (sense organs),

the roads are the sense objects; The Upanishad says that

the sense horses trot on the road of sense objects.

The wise sages (Rishis , who were the manthra dhrashtAs

for the Upanishads) call Him the enjoyer (when He is )

united with the body , senses and the mind.

 

Manas as reins plays a key role in controlling the route

of the horses (Sense organs and action organs) regarding

the travel of the chariot housing the Jeevan .

 

That is why , the appeals to "nenjamE" not to go

astray and to repeat the naamams of the Lord and

AchAryans are made by the AzhwArs in their

Paasurams in line with the path laid out by

the VedAs.

 

Additional references in the Rg Vedam, the oldest

of the Vedams , to the mind are many . One of them is

as follows:

 

ManO nvA huvAmahE nArasamsEna sOmEna

pithruNAm manmabhi: --Rg .vedam 10.57.3

 

The second part of the third Rk," pithruNAm manmabhi:

(huvAmahE)" says: with lyrics praising the elders ( AchAryans ),

we invoke the mind . The context for this can be gleaned

from the first Rk of Rg Vedam 10.57.

 

The first Rk of 10.57 addresses the Lord for control

over the mind: " O Illustrious Lord! Let us not stray

from the righteous path (vishayAn thEshu gocharAn of

KaThopanishad ) , nor from the path of noble action

( of practising Bhakthi or Prapatthi Yogam ).

 

That is why the AzhwArs following the Vedic path

created the Tamizh MaRais and appealed to their

Nenjams (minds) to recite the names of the PrathamAchAryan

and instructed us to eulogize one's sadhAchAryan .

 

Srimath Azhagiya Singar ThiruvadigaLE SaraNam ,

Daasan, V.SatakOpan

[Guest guest]

Thiruvengada Jeeyar thiruvadigale saranam.

 

Sri rukmiNI samEta pArthasArathi parabrahmaNE namah.

 

Dear Sriman Bharat,

 

namaskaram.

 

, 3 Nov 2000 06:53:40 +0530 "BHARATH" wrote:

>

>

> 2. Is there a comprehensive list of Sri Vaishnava temples of south India

> available ?

> with names addresses , state by state and district by district

> classifications with brief notes on the temples and how to get there ?

> if not I wish some of the Sri V organisations would collect such

> information perhaps from the HR & CE dept and publish it .

> One Sri SK . Ramachandra Rao has authored a book on the complete list of

> temples in karnataka , The book has been very useful to me in seeking out

> old Sri V

> temples and visiting them .In most of the the hoysala temples the beauty

> and grace of the moolavar capitvates me .

 

Divya Desa Vaibhava Prakasika of Ubhaya Vedanta Sabha, Pentapadu, gives

account of a good number of temples in Andhra Pradesh and also a few

abhimana sthalams outside Andhra, in addition to the 108 DDs. The book is

in telugu and you can please contact the secretary for a copy:

 

Sriman N.V.L.N.Ramanujacharyulu garu

Secretary

Ubhaya Vedanta Sabha

Pentapadu

W.G.Dist

A.P.

PIN: 534166

>

> 3. It also occured to me that considering that Sri Vaishnavas are a

> vanishing tribe some initiative could be taken to prepare a directory of

> Srivaishnavas .It appears to me that practising Sri Vaishnava's ( ie

> those who who follow at least minimum traditions at birth , Upanayanam ,

> Marrirage etc plus minimum customs like vegetarianism and even simple

> puja )

> are a reducing tribe and will reduce to a few tens of thousands in the

> next 30 years , considering the pace of emigration and loss of cultural

> identity within 2 generations and also westernisation of India .

> a directory may come in useful in many ways to keep a reducing community

> in touch with each other .

 

While a directory will be very much helpful and we should all work for it,

I don't think emigration is a serious problem for a few reasons:

 

1.Most of the major SV websites are maintained from the other side of the

world except vanamamalai.com which is from Hyd.

 

2. If we see bhakti list, most of the very good articles and majority of

members are from abroad which means people have not forgottwen the

tradition.

 

3.Majority of SVs are still in India.

 

4. Compared to other communities in South India, migration of people is not

that much in ours.

 

5. America is a secular country.

 

6. We are still one of the least westernised communities in India.

 

However, emigration whether it is a problem for the nation is another issue

(whihc is beyond the scope of the forum) and I am personally not in its

favour.

 

Educating children in mother tongue, contributing for the all-round

development of nation, and all such things will help very much for the

growth of the vaidika sampradAyam i.e for keeping our tradition alive.

 

One major problem in S India is organizations like RSS do not have much

influence here.

 

Alwar Emberumanar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

dasaanudaasan

Vishnu

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

> -----------------------------

> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

> To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com

> Search archives at

> http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/index.html#SEARCH

>

 

http://www.iitian.com : An Extraordinary place for Extraordinary people

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Bharath:

 

At 06:53 AM 11/3/00 +0530, you wrote:

>1. Sri Ramanuja is supposed to have set up 74 matha's or simhasnapatis for

the propagation of Srivaishnava philosophy . Could anyone tell me where I

can find the list of the above ?

 

The names of the 74 SimhAsanApathis are available

in Guru paramparA books. There are no physical locations

that you will find them in .

>

>2. Is there a comprehensive list of Sri Vaishnava temples of south India

available ?

> with names addresses , state by state and district by district

classifications with brief notes on the temples and how to get there ?

>if not I wish some of the Sri V organisations would collect such

information perhaps from the HR & CE dept and publish it .

>One Sri SK . Ramachandra Rao has authored a book on the complete list of

temples in karnataka , The book has been very useful to me in seeking out

old Sri V

>temples and visiting them .In most of the the hoysala temples the beauty

and grace of the moolavar capitvates me .

 

There are many books not only about

the South Indian Temples , but alsoabout

all the 108 dhivya desams sung by the 12 AzhwArs.

 

Some of these monographs are in Text and

others are with color images. Some have maps

of locations. Some are on the Web .Please

search the web.

 

We are in the middle of creating a CD ROM of

all 108 dhivya desam .We are making steady progress.

A sampler is available at URL:

http://www.geocities.com/irscd

The full CD ROM will have much more information.

 

The full CD ROM on Azhwars and 108 Dhivya desam

( a companion piece to AchArya RaamAnujA CD ROM )

will help address the information shortage in a format

that will be welcome to youngsters growing away

from home .

>

>3. It also occured to me that considering that Sri Vaishnavas are a

vanishing tribe some initiative could be taken to prepare a directory of

Srivaishnavas .It appears to me that practising Sri Vaishnava's ( ie those

who who follow at least minimum traditions at birth , Upanayanam , Marrirage

etc plus minimum customs like vegetarianism and even simple puja )

>are a reducing tribe and will reduce to a few tens of thousands in the next

30 years , considering the pace of emigration and loss of cultural identity

within 2 generations and also westernisation of India .

>a directory may come in useful in many ways to keep a reducing community in

touch with each other .

 

This is an ambitous and at the same time a hopeless

effort since all Sri VaishNavAs do not have access

to computers.Then , there are privacy issues.Networking

and seeking a SadAchAryan is the sure way to maintain

and nourish the sampradhAyam.

 

V.Sadagopan

>

>Bharath.

>-----------------------------

> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

>To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com

>Search archives at http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/index.html#SEARCH

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

SrI:

 

Dear SrIman Ram Kumar:

 

Few days ago , you had asked for the word by word meaning

of the last Paasuram of Swamy NammAzhwAr's ThiruvAimozhi(TVM)

(TVM: 10.10.11). This is the 1102nd Paasuram of ThiruvAimozhi.

This is a grand summation of the outcome of Swamy NammazhwAr's

intense quest for Moksham ( Veedu PeRa avaa). Swamy NammAzhwAr

expresses here his gratitude ( kruthaj~nathai) for the Lord's

paramAnugraham of granting that prayer .AzhwAr also points out

that this ThiruvAimozhi (TVM :10.10 ) was born out of his

Parama Bhakthi after climbing through the lower rungs of

the ladder of para Jn~Anam and para Bhakthi . He declares with

great joy that the Lord has granted him the boon of

apunarjanma sAyujyam described by Upanishads.

 

The condensed meaning of this important paasuram based on

Dr.V.N.VedAntha Desikan's AzhwAr ThiruvuLLam is:

 

Sriman NaarAyaNan , who mingles earnestly with His

devotees in an intense manner is the Soul Prime of ALL

including BrahmA and RudrA .That Lord was sought by SaThakOpA

with a passionate longing through the moving appeals housed

in the Paasurams of his ThiruvAimozhi. The Lord has now

responded to the moving appeals of His dear devotee (SaThakOpan)

and thus SaThakOpan's ambition (wish) has been fulfilled

totally . SaThakOpan has now joined with his Lord. This decad

sung by SaThakOpan in the mood of Parama Bhakthi as the final

dasakam of the One Thousand paasurams of ThiruvAimozhi

will guaranttee to anyone , who masters it ( this dasakam ) ,

the blessings of being born as a Nithyasoori (eternally liberated ).

 

This Final paasuram ( TVM: 10.10.11)has the following form:

 

avAvaRac choozh ariyai ayanai aranai alaRRi

avAvaRRu Veedu peRRa KuruhUr SathakOpan sonna

avaavil anthAdhikaLaal ivai aayiramum mudintha

avAvil anthAdhi ippatthu aRinthAr piRanthAr uyarnthE

 

The word by word meanig is as follows:

 

Ayanai AraNai = by being the indweller (antharyAmi

Brahmam )of BrahmA and RudrA)

 

avA aRacchoozh = and mingling intensely with the devotees,

who seek His Thiruvadi as the ultimate refuge

 

Ariyai alaRRi = Calling passionately that VishNu ,

who is the antharyAmi Brahamam for BrahmA , RudrA

and all chEthnams

 

avaa aRRU veedu PeRRa

KuruhUr SaThakOpan = SaThakOpan born in ThirukkuruhUr

has got all his desires fulfilled

and gained Moksha SaamrAjyam

and the blessings of Nithya

Kaimkaryam to his Lord as well

as ParpoorNa BrhmAnandham.

 

(kuruhUr SaThakOpan)

sonna = (this final decad ) has been sung

by KuruhUr SaThakOpan with devotion

 

anthAdhikaLAl ivai

aayiramum = this final decad , which is a part

of " the thousand " Paasurams of TVM

set in the anthAdhi format ( the last

word of the previous paasuram becoming

the first word of the subsequent paasuram).

 

mudintha avAvil anthAdhi

ipatthu = this final decad (coming at the end

of " the thousand " Paasurams) in

the same anthAdhi format arose out of

the Parama Bhakthi of SaThakOpan

 

(ipatthu) aRinthAr

uyarnthE piRanthAr = those , who recite and reflect on

the meanings of these final "ten"

paasurams will be guaranted to be

born with a status equal to that

of the nithyasooris ( eternally

liberated ones residing at Sri Vaikuntam).

At the time of their birth ,the merciful

glances of Lord Madhusoodhanan will fall

on them and guarantee them a status

that is hailed even by the Nithyasooris.

They become " karuvilE Thiru ULLavarkaL .

 

 

Swamy NammAzhwAr states here that the fortunate ones , who

recite the final dasakam born out of his Charama Bhakthi

( parama Bhakthi) will attain the status of " uyarnthE

piRanthAr" and will gain the "uyar nalam udayavan " and

will worship Him and will be freed from all "Thuyar"

as stated in the first paasuram of ThiruvAimozhi ( Avan

ThuyaraRu sudaradi thozhuvathu) as a result of gaining

Moksha Siddhi (Parama Padha PrApthi).

 

Thus ends the glorious ThiruvAimozhi of Swamy NammazhwAr

celebrating the fulfillment of his intense desire for

Veedu (Moksham) and the Lord's fulfilment of that avaa.

 

Swamy NammazhwAr ThiruvadigaLE SaraNam ,

Oppiliappan Koil VaradAchAri SaThakOpan

[Guest guest]

Sri

 

Dear Sri.N.S.Gururaj,

 

You wrote:

> 1) I definitely agree that this is a

> forum wherein you would like to predominantly

> discuss Sri Vaishnavism ( Vishistadvaita).

> We are like guests at your forum, and please bear

> with us, if we have little bit of a divergent

> view. Tolerance is a great Virtue.

> Very important, we are also learning a lot from

> this forum.

 

This is not a controversial topic but a very philosophical one. There are

bound to be disagreements which is the norm. The brain which accepts

contradictary thoughts is a confused one. Accepting one stream of thought

represents one's logical and analytical capabilities but respecting other's

views represents one's culture.

 

> 2) Basically followers of every Acharya

> feels his is the best and is the true interpretation

> of Vedas. We, with our limited faculties, there

> is know way we can say, who is correct

> and who is wrong.

> 3) Born in an extremely orthodox Madhwa

> Brahmin family, I was taught that Madhwa's

> teachings are the best, and only Madhwas

> can attain Mukthi. When I was a young boy

> I was totally confused and did not agree

> with this concept of ours. I used to think

> how can this be, everybody feels his

 

I am not being ecumenical here. Pardon me for not being so, since being

secular does not mean that one has to be ecumenical in nature. Respect and

ecumen are two different words and have totally different meanings.

> is the best.

> I will give you another example, Protestants feel

> Catholics are no good . And Protestants feel they

> truly represent Christainity. Who represents true

> Christainity nobody knows.

 

On a lighter note Jesse Jackson seems to know the original christianity.

There are many denominations in christianity not just protestant and

catholic.Obviously we are not discussing Christianity in this forum. I am

not one of the members of the Taliban who go about destroying other temples

or so. I reiterated in my email that I respect the Gaudiya Vaishnava

sampradya and temples, etc etc but when it comes to their philosophy there

certainly can be questions raised and discussed since philosophy is

"intellectual pursuit of wisdom" as Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

defines it.

 

> 4) This is where I agree with Sri Mohan

> wherein he says Anubhavam is more

> important.You please tell me

> which of the three Acharays the

> following Bhakthas followed,

> You have Sri Tulasidas in the north,

> You have Jalaram Bapa in Gujarath,

> You have Sant Tukaram in Maharastra,

> You have Saint Thyagraja in the South.

> You mean to say they were not

> Bhagawath Bhaktas. Not to forget

> Sri Shirdi Saibaba, or Guru Nanak.

> You mean to say whatever they preached

> was wrong and they had no following.

 

I did not bring the above mentioned bhaktas into the picture. I am concered

about *Gaudiya Vaishnavism* not what the above mentioned bhaktas preached.

Don't drag the topic we were discussing to a different scenario. We can deal

with what the above mention bhaktas preached in different topics, time

permitting.

> Anubhawams are preordained, we get the

> Right Anubhawams only with the devine

> Grace of Lord Sri Hari.

 

There *is* a difference between anubhavam with jnAnam and anubhavam with

alpa-jnAnam. Sri Lakshmikumar has already explained this in his previous

mail. I am assuming you have a good reading comprehension when you read his

email.

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

[Guest guest]

Dear Elders and learned ones,

 

Please enlighten me.

Why is this 'Maaya' created and 'What purpose does it serve?'

'Why does Lord Naarayana make his children fall into Maya?(or do they

themselves fall?)

 

Daasanu daasudu,

Ramakrishna.

 

 

 

 

Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:40 PM

Subject:

 

 

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