Why...

[Guest guest]

whitetrash_yoga I am curious to know where you

live?<br><br>"1) We cannot afford a roundtrip ticket to India to

see his Highness perform. "<br>Actually it is

possible. Airfares to India are expensive but once you get

there you can live like a king or queen for dollars a

day -- probably $300 US dollars per month--maybe

less. <br><br>"2) Who has got a month long vacation

time from their job? " <br>I think this is the bigger

problem especially for Americans who get a ridiculous 2

week/year vacation. I envy the Europeans! I have a

question. There are many Americans who do go to India to

study with Guruji. How do you do it? What do you do for

a living that allows you to take this time off? I

am a freelancer. When the economy is good I have

more freedom to take time off. But when the economy is

bad I am stuck. <br><br>"Damn those trust fund kids!

"<br>Believe me all of us envy those financially independent

people but you are not alone. Most of us are under a lot

of financial constraints. <br><br>"4) Lastly,

according to funkybuglady, there isn't ANYWHERE in these

United States that a "qualified" Ashtangi teacher can be

found EXCEPT of course in Mysore, India. "<br>This is

simply not true. I am sure no teacher can replace the

original but there are some decent teachers in this neck

of the woods.

[Guest guest]

<<Who has got a month long vacation time

from their job?>><br><br>Sorry, where does

"vacation" come into this? Aspiring to become a yoga teacher

is a real and serious commitment, not a game or a

hobby. <br><br>If you want to become a schoolteacher -

four years full time college in England, longer in

Germany. A doctor? Five years college, plus several more

working under supervision before you are allowed to

practice independently as a GP - say about ten years

total. Take a slightly different example. A mountain

guide? No formal college, but rigorous practical

examinations that only very experienced and capable people

have any hope of getting through. <br><br>Do you think

yoga is any easier or less important than these

things?<br><br>Of course, if you don't regard yoga teaching as a

serious life commitment, and/or are willing to study with

people who don't, that's up to you. I'll stick to

studying with people who show some evidence of real

dedication.

[Guest guest]

I think both sides of this argument have some

truth to it. Obviously if you are seriously abusing

your body -- with drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, food --

you are definitely not honoring the temple that is

your body. I think it is a matter of consciousness --

consciously either loving or hating your physical body and

your self. How you treat the body does say something

about how you are relating to your Self. On the

otherhand, is the health nut who religiously works out at

the gym closer to God..or are they super attached and

obsessed with the body? Hmmmm...It is also important to

remember that Asana is third on the eight-limbed path.

Third. So as we evolve and move beyond the body Asana

will be something we drop along the way. One of my

teachers said asana is what the saints did in high school.

That gave me some perspective.

[Guest guest]

"I hope to bring to light the fact that not all

of us who practice yoga want a religious conversion

to Hinduism."<br><br>actually hinduism is one club

you will never belong to. it is the one religion that

does not allow converts. You have to be born into it.

Maybe in the next life...

[Guest guest]

clk,<br>I am a teacher which allows me 3 months

during the summer and another 2 weeks at Christmas.

Teachers have a bum job-don't get paid what they

should-but there are the perks!<br>Qualified teachers

outside of Mysore? Most definitely! Gurujii doesn't teach

any more! Sometimes he will give an adjustment, but

you're expected to know the series before you go there!

There's just too many people lined up the stairwell

waiting to practice in the space!<br>Personally, I feel

its your intent that makes a practice what it

is....it doesn't matter where you are!<br>BUT, Mysore is a

gorgeous, spiritual place!<br>twochant

[Guest guest]

clk,<br>Strongly disagree....Hinduism is for everyone! It doesn't matter what

color your hair or skin is!<br>twochant

[Guest guest]

Great answer Alan. Anything worth doing takes

sacrifice. What white trash doesn't see is that there are

some who make it their life. It is not money but love

of yoga that is the issue. As I've said before, lots

of us are not rich, and white trash I speak from

experience!

[Guest guest]

<I think both sides of this argument have some

truth to it><br>Absolutely, I think it depends on

your motivation.<br>If you're only practising to

impress others that you can bend farther and look better

than them, that's using pretzel logic. Then most

likely you're in competition with like-minded people,

and you'll probably injure yourself. But as long as

you're cultivating the attitude that the asanas are only

a means to an end and not an end unto themselves,

then no matter what level of difficulty you're at,

you've already begun to realize the most important

obstacle - ego. It's the cookie cutter approach I object

to. Maybe what works for you won't work for me. We

all have different abilities and start from different

circumstances - you must do it this way, you can only learn

using this method, my guru is bigger than your guru.

But when I'm on the mat, which is five minutes from

now, all those other people won't be there, and I'll

have to decide what is right for myself. Whether to

hold this or that pose just a little longer, or

whether today is not a good day to do what I usually do

in this or or that pose and to go easy and thus

avoid injury. I worry about some of these people who

are so attached to making an impression. Look Ma no

hands! That's the upside down triangle - top heavy.

[Guest guest]

It might be helpful to know that "hinduism", was

never a religion in the sense, that Judaism,

Christianity, Islam, etc. are. Hinduism is a term coined by

British scholars somewhere around the 18th c. because

they were confused in thier studies of india, where

folks in one village worship in a different way and to

a different god than the folks in the next village.

They found elements of commonality, but just as many

differences in the practices and beliefs. The term Hinduism

was used as a blanket term to refer to all religious

practices of the indian subcontinent, regardless of how

different they might be.... the term stuck, and most

indians today call themselves "Hindus", I suspect without

even knowing the origin of the term.<br><br>FYI

[Guest guest]

It may not matter to you, but it does matter to the those Brahmin priests. Clk

is right -- technically, you have to be born into Hinduism to be a Hindu. There

are no converts.

[Guest guest]

I'll amend that, with this, that I found in an

article in Hinduism Today:<br><br>"There remains a

significant contingent of orthodox Hindus today who firmly

preach that Hinduism does not accept converts. They

believe that one must be born a Hindu. Outsiders, no

matter how learned or devoted, must wait until another

lifetime to enter the faith. Leave alone that this opinion

goes against historical fact, many modern Hindu

scholars readily acknowledge that Hinduism does indeed

accept converts. In 1899, Swami Vivekananda proclaimed,

"Why, born aliens have been converted in the past by

crowds, and the process is still going on. This statement

not only applies to aboriginal tribes, to outlying

nations, and to almost all our conquerors before the

Mohammedan conquest, but also to all those castes who find a

special origin in the Puranas. I hold that they have been

aliens thus adopted." Dr. S. Radhakrishnan, former

president of India, confirms the swami's views in a brief

passage from his well-known book, The Hindu View of Life:

"In a sense, Hinduism may be regarded as the first

example in the world of a missionary religion. Only its

missionary spirit is different from that associated with the

proselytizing creeds. It did not regard it as its mission to

convert humanity to any one opinion. Worshippers of

different Gods and followers of different rites were taken

into the Hindu fold. The ancient practice of

vratyastoma, described fully in the Tandya Brahmana, shows

that not only individuals but whole tribes were

absorbed into Hinduism. Many modern sects accept

outsiders. Dvala's Smriti lays down rules for the simple

purification of people forcibly converted to other faiths, or

of womenfolk defiled and confined for years, and

even of people who, for worldly advantage, embrace

other faiths."

[Guest guest]

Screwgee,<br>I think what you're really speaking

of is the caste system...which was supposed to

end...but, of course it is easy to see that it has not.

<br>Even an untouchable can be a Hindu, so can a 'purva

jinma' carry samskaras into this life (and be a

westerner with blonde hair).<br>Hinduism is a philosphy

that has been handed down through the ages and has

undergone myriads of social and cultural changes. <br>I

have only been reincarnated in this body. (better than

being a dog....stray dog)<br>twochant

[Guest guest]

It's a question of orthoxody vs. the more modern,

heterodox viewpoints. As the article points out, some

modern scholars and some Hindu spiritual leaders, such

as Vivekananda, say Hinduism can be open to

converts. But note that the article also points out that a

good portion of Hindus are orthodox. Whether they're

in the majority or not, I can't say at this

point.<br><br>This is somewhat similar to the topic of converts to

Judaism. Quite a few of the orthodox will maintain that to

really be Jewish, one has to have the right blood

line.<br><br>It's all more or less racism.

[Guest guest]

Hey<br>I think it IS important to note here

that<br>1) not everyone who goes to mysore wants to be a

teacher<br>2) people who are barely making ends meet (not me,

but others here, i am sure) really CANNOT go to india

for a month. Not that it wouldn't be serious or very

desirable or important to them at all.<br><br>Lets say

person A has no college degree, and has a job at minimum

wage that barely pays the bills. They can save a max

of ten dollars a week (VERY true for some people).

Now, if they need $1000 for airfare to india, $500 for

yoga class, and $200 to live on there, thats 170 weeks

of saving. THEN---after they save up the money (in

three and a half years) they have to either<br>a. be

able to take the month off and still have a JOB when

they get back<br>or <br>B. have another job lined up

for, like, the DAY they get back.<br><br>Thats not

factoring in issues such as kids and/or single parenting

and/or relatives to take care of. <br><br>For a lot of

people in this country its a huge struggle just to get

by, and saving alone isn't going to make mysore

possible. (Will they have a job when they get back? who

watches the kids? are they on public assistance???? what

if they have a controlling spouse??? ETC)<br><br>In

yoga fervor, i see some detachment from the reality of

America.<br><br>Jess

[Guest guest]

<yoga fervor><br>Thank you, you just hit

the nail on the head. Reality sometimes bites, but

some yoga is better than no yoga and hopefully

everyone is working towards the same end. I suspect that

insecurity is behind some peoples need to think they are at

the top, or to be thought of as better than the rest.

Hopefully every one will eventually get what they need from

yoga. After all, it's not the Olympics. I joined this

club to learn.

[Guest guest]

Right well if you you quit your job at Mac

Donald's you can switch to Burger King when you get back.

<br><br>Dump the controlling spouse.<br><br>p.s. some kids

have two parents.<br><br>People have.... oh my God

been known to take their kids! or go at different

times.

[Guest guest]

<< For a lot of people in this country it's

a huge struggle just to get by.....In yoga fervor,

I see some detatchment from the reality of

America.>><br><br>Jess Abelson - Now I certainly don't have to remind

you that in the homeland of yoga, India that is, not

only for "a lot of people", but for MOST people it's a

huge struggle just to get by; and despite living in

India, most of them cannot afford a trip to Mysore to

study with Guruji either. Indeed, I'm sure that some of

India's poor would consider themselves lucky if they'd

get ANY public assistance of the American kind at

all.<br><br>Fortunately, the "yoga fervour" is alive and well nonetheless.

Instead of wasting time complaining about what others can

afford and you cannot, you should do better with trying

to keep up a daily yoga practice within what your

current personal limits and circumstances allow. Because

that's the REAL challenge!

[Guest guest]

Good points, Jess. What you say is true, and sad,

and not fair, and not my fault. (And, as SS pointed

out, less bad than the situation of most people in the

world)<br><br>I don't think anybody is suggesting that you have

to go to mysore in order to get any benefit from

studying and practicing ashtanga vinyasa yoga (ok, maybe

some people are. I'm certainly not of that opinion).

<br><br>But deciding whether people are qualified to teach is

another question entirely. I hope you don't think there

is any reason why it should be easy, quick or

convenient for anybody to become a yoga teacher. It

shouldn't. It should be very difficult and require lots of

effort, study, devotion and sacrifice. And if it's

"ashtanga vinyasa yoga in the tradition of Sri K. Patthabi

Jois" that somebody wants to be qualified to teach,

then the required standards and observances for that

are quite clearly defined and they include studying

in Mysore. Anybody who doesn't want to do that is

free to do something else. There are other valid forms

of yoga (although I think aspiring iyengar teachers

are also required to join the three year waiting list

to study in Pune if they want to go beyond the most

basic "junior" certification)<br><br>I work freelance

so that I can make a living while still having time

to do other things I want to do, such as going to

Mysore for three or four months this winter. I'm worried

that I'll come back in the spring and find the tech

market still in deep depression and be unable to fnd

work. I choose to take that risk because yoga is a

higher priority for me than financial security. Which is

my personal choice, and doesn't mean I don't respect

people who have different priorities.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that post, Alan. I would like to

add just this: Ms Abelson lives in Boston, right? And

next year Sri Jois comes to New York to hold his

workshop?? How distant is it from Boston to New York? If I

were her, I would start saving for that workshop right

now! Afer all, wasn't she telling us that she was

planning a trip to Canada? If she can afford to travel to

Montreal, she certainly can also afford a trip to New York.

Don't be fooled - Jess Abelson isn't really as bad off

as she claims. Why is it that it's always those who

complain loudest who have the least reason to do so? Just

look at me: I don't live in England, nor in Finland,

on the American East Coast neither. So I won't see

Guruji on his world tour!! Do I complain? I continue

with my Astanga-Yoga practice regardless.<br><br>Good

luck in Mysore! And when you come back, you'll tell us

poor devils who can't afford the trip to India how it

was, OK? (I'm joking, of course.) And good to see you

here again, Alan. I was starting to miss your posting.

[Guest guest]

Next Week S2. Next week starts the classes. I know, I know, you have trouble

with your perfect English.<br><br>FBL

[Guest guest]

Oops. You're right! My English is not so perfect,

you see. Well, I hope that Ms Abelson will make it to

Guruji's workshop nonetheless, and everyone else who

practises Astanga on the East Coast. Enjoy!!

[Guest guest]

Congratulations, you won the Lamer of the Month prize by posting a spelling

flame.

[Guest guest]

That was not a complaint about personal

circumstances (please re read). It was something to think about

in regards to some american yoga students. I'm not

saying that they cannot PRACTICE within what they can

do. I was saying that they may not be able to make it

to india.

[Guest guest]

What you are saying has a lot of good points to

it. (and i'm sorry if i implied the mess of people

who financially struggle is anyones fault---not what

i meant)<br><br>you say yoga is a higher priority

than financial security. but for some people it may be

yoga vs homelessness. (in terms of taking time away

from work).<br><br>What you are saying about teaching

qualifications is also true. But, some people (many people)

simply (once again, not referring to myself. But many

people....) cannot go to india repeatedly to study---simply

because of financial/work constraints.<br><br>Someone

else posted a reply to my post that said "work at

burger king. dump the controlling spouse."<br><br>is it

that easy for anyone here to change

jobs/partners?<br><br>jess

[Guest guest]

Once again, need i RE POST (as stated in my

original message!!!!!!) that none of this was a complaint

about MY situation. It was awareness raising about

PEOPLE in america. <br><br>NOT about me

complaining.<br>IT WAS about REALITY for SOME people...<br><br>It

WAS NOT a personal complaint.<br>SOCIOLOGICAL

AWARENESS.