Richard Freeman

[Guest guest]

Some of us up here in Canada, are having an

on-going discussion about Richard Freeman.<br><br>The gist

of it is: Is Richard Freeman a Yoga Criminal? If so,

how many yoga felonies has he

committed?<br><br>Responses so far range from 0 felonies to 2

felonies.<br><br>Any input from the club members would be appreciated.

I especially look forward to the educated opinion

of El Senor, Missy Pinky and other purists but all

views are welcome.<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

What's your problem? Find something to do Omprem.

[Guest guest]

"What's your problem? Find something to do

Omprem."<br><br>Yes, like for instance the hobbies as listed on your

(omprem's) profile page: "spritualitymeditationyoga".

Or perhaps it will become more effective if it is

viewed as something more than a mere hobby.

[Guest guest]

A fundamentalist would certainly find his workshop subversive.<br><br>Why felony

as opposed to misdemeanor? Are you Canadians feeling especially punitive?

[Guest guest]

Dear precious tshamoya<br><br>It is not my

problem, I couldn't care less whether Richard Freeman is a

Yoga Criminal of not. If you had been reading my posts

you would know that. Nor do I care about how many

felonies or misdemeanors he may or may not be guilty of.

But others up here in the land of ice and snow do

care about that. Rather than arguing amongst

themselves, it would be useful to get some input from others

re RF.<br><br>By the way, I have nothing listed

under 'hobbies' in my profile. You, however, present

yourself as some kind of knowledgeable advisor. So what is

your opinion of RF?<br><br>Or, shall we take a seat on

your couch for what? Entertainment? Your posts have

just presented you as shallow. How can that be

entertaining or instructive?<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

<< By the way, I have nothing listed under

'hobbies' in my profile. >><br><br>I'm sure Tshamoya

meant your 'interests', not your 'hobbies', listed as

follows: "Yoga, Meditation, Spirituality,

Hinduism."<br><br><< But others up here in the land of ice and snow do

care about that. Rather than arguing amongst

themselves, it would be useful to get some input from others

re RF. >><br><br>I'm wondering whether ice and

snow may cause serious brain damage?

(Sorry.)<br><br>P.S. : I myself would feel honoured to have Richard

Freeman as my teacher.

[Guest guest]

Living here in Boulder and studying with Richard

is probably the only way anyone could ever be able

to establish an opinion of him. He's a devout man

with an intense love of his guru, he spends much of

his 'spare' time in India with Guruji and when Guruji

comes here, he is entertained by and is accomodated by

him. I hardly believe that Guruji would bother

spending any time with him at all if he felt his teachings

were being mis-represented... so one can, from a

distance, be assured that Richard is guilty of nothing but

love for this Ashtanga.<br><br>I invite his detractors

to visit us here in beautiful Colorado. You might

never leave.<br><br>Namaste,<br>Nada

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't you yourself feel honoured to have ANYONE as your teacher, since you

yourself are learning astanga from a book?

[Guest guest]

I am currently learning Astanga with the help of

John Scott's book (and have e-mailed already to order

Lino Miele's "Astanga Yoga" and Guruji's "Yoga Mala"

as well) because where I live here in Germany there

are no authorised teachers. Learning from a book is

not ideal, but in my opinion it's better than

nothing, and so far I have been managing fairly well,

thanks. Certainly, to study with a certified teacher

(like Richard Freeman) is always preferable. I myself

am planning to attend some workshops here in Germany

with the beginning of next year. Lino Miele and John

Scott are my big idols. Lino comes to Germany every

year, and John Scott (as far as I have read) is

planning to do the same from now on. So I am not obliged

(and I have no intention to do so) to spend the rest

of my life learning Astanga from a book.

[Guest guest]

<<Your posts have just presented you as<br>

shallow. How can that be entertaining or

instructive?>><br><br>Oh dear, I hope we do not have the beginnings of

another ashtanga club shouting match.<br><br>I must

confess that I too was a bit perturbed by your suggestion

that we discuss the criminality of a particular

teacher -- it seemed beneath you soemhow -- I'm trying to

put my finger on why I felt that way.<br><br>My first

thought was that even when we have the best of intentions

we can hurt people -- hurt their feelings, their

reputations, maybe even their livelihoods -- especially given

the posting of anonymous unverifiable allegations and

the odious comparisons that inevitably accompany such

a discussion. (Omboy probably had like motivations

in his multi-persona-cloaked charges against you.)

But then I remembered that probably nobody takes this

board seriously anyway.<br><br>I guess my concern has

more to do with a deepening realization of the extent

to which I lack some of the good character traits of

the very few seasoned ashtanga practitioners I have

had the privilege to meet. They tend to have

strongly-held beliefs, or at least deep commitments to a

particular set of practices, but are disinclined to argue

with or condemn others: instead they make their points

in subtle ways that convey an idea or commitment but

don't build up themselves in the

process.<br><br>Someone previously posted a story about Russell

Yamaguchi's low-key, laid-back encounter with a student who

was skipping postures in class because he was

"time=challenged" -- something like that is what I have in

mind.<br><br>It's one thing not to serve up insults and

broad-brushed condemnations. More subtle is this ability to

know when to forego an argument or discussion (even a

very civil one) when it won't really benefit

anyone.<br><br>Wher does this humility come from? Persistance in the

asana practice? Devotion to one's guru? (Maybe the

latter is my problem -- I can't fully to the

guru-concept in general, or to KP Jois in particular.) Or does

humility arise independently of these things, and Jois

simply selects students for certification/authorization

partly on the basis of finding it in the

person?<br><br>I would welcome more discussion of the development

of the various yamas/niyamas in the practice of

ashtanga.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Do you also have any opportunity for group

practice (even without a teacher around)?<br><br>I too am

isolated but the few times I've been to classes I've

probably learned more, by way of example and discussion,

from fellow students than from my books.<br><br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Has an outstanding practice but a teaching

methodology that is not consistent with that of Guruji. He

tends to be a bit theoretical and loves to hear himself

talk and allegedly has a foot fetish (althought this

is only a rumor).<br><br>The Guru is reported to

have said that Richard's students were the weakest on

last year's world tour but this could be due to the

fact that out in Boulder people are so laid back and

might not have as regular practice as those in NYC (who

were deemed "best")<br><br>All this said, Richard

Freeman is no criminal in my opinion as he has the

highest regard for the guru and a sublime personal

practice. I do think that as a teacher he is more than a

bit over-rated as people tend to get bowled over by

his flowery talk. The verdict is that maybe he has

committed a few yogi misdemeanors but he brings great

dedication, eloquence and inspiration to the

practice.<br><br>El Senor, Ole!

[Guest guest]

One wonders why if the Guru thought the Boulder students were so weak he saw fit

to go through all of the intermediate series there and did not do so in NYC?

Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

Why is everyone hung up on methodology? As they

say in Zen, the finger (method) pointing to the moon

is not the moon(realization/enlightenment). Folks

get hung up on the finger and mistake it for the

moon. <br>Anyone who studies lineages of great teachers

and traditions knows that methods are fluid and

reflect the understanding of the individual teacher.

Realizaion does not have preconditions, much as we would

like to think so.<br>Any teacher who seems to be "just

like his/her guru" either in personality or method may

aping and imitating his master in order to mask his own

lack of realization. Notice how realized students (of

any tradition or lineage) are often very different

from their teacher--their guru has reflected their own

light back to them, and their understanding shines in

its own unique way. <br>If we look at Gurujis'

method, it's radically different from his gurus.... So

who's the criminal??<br>Go back to your mats and pray

for your own salvation and stop worrying about

others.<br>With Love<br>PM

[Guest guest]

Yeah, that's right. I meant interests. Tx.

[Guest guest]

astute observation (even if i won't go with where you're heading with it). A

little mean though, due to its somewhat accuracy mainly. Funny.<br><br>aside:(no

ss, i don't agree with her )

[Guest guest]

"My first thought was that even when we have the

best of intentions we can hurt people -- hurt their

feelings, their reputations, maybe even

...."<br><br>homer<br>Actually, if you met him you'd probably see Richard is a

yogic king -these comments would be mist dissappearing

before the sun to him. That's primarily what makes them

wholly inapropriate/irrelevant - they just can't stick.

As someone says later in the posts - his practice is

sublime. To oneself one might wonder "i wonder why r does

this or that" but one would never ask because the

power of his experience that cloaks him commands the

respect/admiration of accepting it as his choice, his way.<br><br>(i

had a freudian slip just now of typing his "joice" -

i.p.o. choice... and its probably a combination of his

joy and choice. And one gives a great leader his joy,

whatever he prefers in other words)

[Guest guest]

Thanks Senior<br><br>That pretty well is the

prevailing opinion up here on RF except for those who like

his flowery talk and swoon when his name is brought

up.<br><br>Perhaps the reason that RF's students were considered to

be the weakest, is that he spends so much time

talking during the class that his students end up with

less practice.<br><br>Anyway, your response should

bring this thread to an

end.<br><br>Regards<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

Good response, Homer<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Omprem