Which way?

[Guest guest]

Which is the best way to learn the primary

series? I've been doing ashtanga on my own for about 3

months after taking a class series from a very good

certified teacher (60 miles away).<br><br>I know one way is

to go as far into the series as one can complete the

poses. (I would be stuck at ARDHA BADDHA PADMOTTANASANA

because I can't bind and fold).<br><br>And another way is

to do modified poses and continue on with the

series.<br><br>I'm currrently modifying the poses according to David

Swenson's manuals suggestions and regularly do his 45

minute routine. But, stopping at the pose that I'm stuck

on has some appeal because I think I would progress

through it faster with the daily emphasis on it.

<br><br>What are the recommendations of the group? If I stop

there and skip to the finishing sequence, what do I do

about the poses there (related to PADMASANA) that I

can't do again yet?<br><br>TIA, Namaste,<br><br>Jim

[Guest guest]

My experience has been that I enjoy my practice

more, and make better progress, if I stop when I can't

do an asana properly rather than carrying on with

modifications and omissions. <br><br>I haven't been able to

bind in half lotus for a couple of years now because

of knee problems - caused originally by struggling

to bind in half lotus before my hips were ready. In

the end I spent about three months just going as far

as the half lotus asanas - I would actually carry on

past ardha baddha padmotanasana as far as ardha baddha

padma paschimottanasana. Both of these I would do two

or three times and for more breaths than usual, and

very very gently and carefully the first time through.

Then I would go into finishing. After three months of

that I'm almost back to being able to bind, but this

time without straining my knees, and I'm fairly

comfortable in padmasana for finishing which I never was

before. I think I was able to open my hips far more

effectively and safely by really making the half lotus binds

the culminating point and focus of my practice for a

while.<br><br>If you can't do padmasana without straining, the

normal thing is to just sit cross-legged instead for the

finishing sequence.<br><br>I'm not doing this because it's

the traditional and "correct" way (although it is)

but because it works for me.

[Guest guest]

Jim, <br><br>if I were you, I would continue

practising the way you do it already. By stopping at the

pose you can´t do and skipping the rest you would be

depriving yourself from progress with other poses that you

could, in fact, reach. I myself can´t do a proper

Marichyasana (my teacher has been raising her eyebrows for

almost a year now). But this does not stop me from

trying a simpler version and doing the full series until

things become better. It is just more fun this way.

Plus, you never really know what effect skipping one

pose may have on another (there´s always a pose and a

counter-pose or whatever it is called). Plus, skipping the

finishing Asanas is generally not recommended. Plusplus,

Ashtanga Yoga is more a thing about breath that

contortionism. So, if you breathe properly during your otherwise

not so perfect ARDHA BADDHA PADMOTTANASANA, you have

reached a major goal already. <br><br>Regards<br>Thomas

[Guest guest]

The risk of injuring yourself is much bigger if

you simply modify the postures you can't do and

continue in the series. The "traditional" way of stopping

at the pose you are not yet ready for might seem

boring, but in fact it's safest method to learn the

astanga series. This is especially true if you don't have

a teacher and you practise on your own.

[Guest guest]

Well, yes and no. <br><br>Yes, there is (always)

a risk if you practise on your own without a

teacher around. This is true for any Asana, whether one

"can do it" or not. But, how do we judge on our own

whether we are ready to move on or not?<br><br>And no:

there are modifications recommended by reliable

teachers. The risk of injuring oneself while trying such a

work-around is probably just as big (or small) as keeping

trying to overcome the difficulties in one certain

posture. <br><br>And, I still hold to be true what I wrote

in my earlier reply: If you want to judge whether

you "can do" an Asana, think of breath, too. So, if

one just cannot twist one´s vertrebrae in a certain

way, this does not necessarily mean that one´s Asana

is worse than one that looks better but is done with

an inappropriate breathing.

[Guest guest]

You have a valid point - in the absence of an

experienced teacher, and given that nobody does any asana

perfectly, who defines what "good enough" to move on

means?<br><br>But ... doing a heavily modified primary series

simply so you can "get through" the whole series and kid

yourself that you're somewhere near doing it, when you're

not, gets you nowhere. I know because I did it for a

long time. It's only when I slowed down, went back to

basics and started really working on the things I had

been sketching my way past, that I started making real

progress.<br><br>A case in point: David Swenson's modifications on

marichy b & d, with the foot on the floor instead of in

half lotus. What are these for? I can't see that they

help you to get any closer to doing the real thing.

Whereas what does get you closer to doing the real thing,

is making sure that you can do the preceding half

lotus asanas properly. If that means accepting that

you're not even close to doing marichy b or d or some

other asana this year, so be it. Better to see the

truth and accept it as it is than pretend.

<br><br>(Disclaimer because I've been flamed here before for seeming

disrespectful about David: I *know* he has many times more

experience than I have. I also think he's a nice guy and a

good teacher. But I still do not understand what these

particular modifications are supposed be about and they do

seem to me to be avoiding the issue. There may be some

profound value to them that I lack the experience and

insight to see. Etc. And I'm talking about these

particular modfications, not all modifications in

general.)<br><br>Interesting conversation, Thomas - I could go on but I've got

work to do. Maybe we can continue over a coffee when

Lino's in town. (Lino is of the "if you can't bind, bend

forward anyway" persuasion, by the way)

[Guest guest]

Alan, all of us seem to be right in a way. It

depends on the actual Asana and situation. Well - I guess

that the Rishis on whose experience the "ant-eaten"

book was based on must have dared to try something new

once. And I think we should do the same, within our

limits, of course. (As you can see, I am one from the

"take Yoga serious, but not too serious" faction). It

depends what we derive the "joyful" in "strong, stable,

easy, joyful" from.

<br><br>Regards<br>Thomas<br><br>PS:I don´t seem to get what "if you can't bind,

bend

forward anyway" means. Was heisst das auf Deutsch?

[Guest guest]

I agree. I can't do all of the asanas "properly"

but I have learned the modifications for the ones I

can't do. Plus, if you are doing the modifications

correctly, you are well on your way to opening up the parts

of your body that you need for those specific

postures. You have to work at one posture to get better at

it. Right? I mean, you can't just all of the sudden

say "okay, I can move on to the next posture now" and

be able to do it perfectly. So (and I know this is

bad to be impatient), at the risk of spending your

entire life stuck on one posture that you can't get, you

might as well do the reccomended modifications of the

postures you can't do and have a lot more

fun!<br><br>lauren

[Guest guest]

Thanks for chipping in, Alan.<br><br>I'm on the

modification side of things, here, for two

reasons:<br><br>First, all the asanas we do are in a sense modified, as

there is always further to go in a posture. In a Janu

Sirshasana for instance: after you grab your toes then you

grab the soles of your feet then you reach around and

grab your srist, then reach further along down your

forearm, etc.<br><br>Secondly, a given posture usually has

several issues to address. For example, the half-lotus of

Marichyasana B tackles hip-opening, but the forward bend in B

calls attention to spine-lengthening, and also to the

flex on the leg that is brought alongside the hip.

Bending well forward in B helps, in my experience, to

prepare for leg-behind-the-head stuff in second series.

Folks who can't do half-lotus in B can use Sewenson's

modification and still experience a deep forward bend --

deeper, probably, than what they would get in A with the

leg extended.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

>> I don´t seem to get what "if you can't

bind, bend forward anyway" means. Was heisst das auf

Deutsch? <br><br>(In stehenden oder sitzenden Halblotus)

"wenn du nicht binden kannst, beug trotzdem vorwärts"

(beide Hände zum Fuß) or something like that<br><br>Oh

God. Scary first attempt to write German in public on

the Web. Hope it made sense.

[Guest guest]

Yep. Think I got it. Thanx.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Thomas, Alan, Homer, Madonna and Shining

for your thoughts and the interesting

discussion.<br><br>Not sure which way I'll end up with. I expect after

this weekend with Tim Miller (If I survive), I'll know

the way.<br><br>Thanks again - I'm glad to share and

learn from this group!<br><br>Namaste,<br><br>Jim

[Guest guest]

"It's only when I slowed down, went back to

basics and started really working on the things I had

been sketching my way past, that I started making real

progress."<br><br>I found this to be true for me too.

<br><br>Traditional vs. modified: what I've found works best for me

is to work through a type of posture as oppossed to

a single specific asana. Like Alan, I cannot bind

either of the bound half lotus postures, ardha baddha

padmottanhasana or ardha baddha padma paschimattanasana, but

instead of stopping at the former I continue (the

virabhadrasanas being such great hip openers) through the later

before skipping to the finishing asanas. When the day

comes that I can bind them both, I will move on in the

series (I'm sure I will achieve absolute perfection in

these postures any day now).

[Guest guest]

Guess I'll see you at that workshop, Jim. Maybe

someone should organize a little side-event at which

workshop participants are invited to reveal their secret

-club handles!<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Homer,<br><br>I'll look forward to meeting you. Martha could probably point us

out to eachother.<br><br>Namaste,<br><br>Jim

[Guest guest]

....or you could just look for the old guy, sweating profusely and falling down

alot!<br><br>Jim

[Guest guest]

Should be plenty of us like there meeting that description!<br><br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Homer<br><br>Thanks for this - very informative

and eye-opening for me regarding what marichy A and B

do anyway, regardless of modifications.<br><br>Sorry

about the delayed reply - I've been visiting my

not-yet-technologised parents for a few days<br><br>Alan

[Guest guest]

I would also like to thank everyone who

contributed to the "which way ?" topic, a very interesting

subject, as it seems to me that there are indeed several

different ways of doing the astanga series.<br><br>I myself

couldn't contribute much, because when the topic was

started, I caught a terrible flu so that I was unable to

practise for more than one week. During that time I

haven't read many posts here. Thanks again.