Don't go to the movies?

[Guest guest]

It seems to me, after reading tons of stuff about

the caste system and history of Indian culture and

lots of yoga and ashtanga education, that this 'don't

go to the movies' thing has mostly to do with

Brahman principles. This is my geuss... although most of

you probably know all this, I think that there was a

time not so long ago when it was considered unclean to

mix with people of lower castes - those who went to

the movies and gathered in public places were

generally considered 'unsavory' by the Brahmans, (still

are) therefore undesirable to mix with. You will see

in Yoga Mala that Jois mentions 'avoiding mixing

with unsavory people.' (which is funny considering the

crazy mix of people who attended his workshops in

America) I can see the logic here, but with our culture

this judgement is entirely arbitrary and up to the

individual. In Indian culture, they make it easy with the

caste system. The Brahmans believe they alone are

direct decendants of the most holy high priests of the

Hindu religion. They have rigid beliefs and rituals

which have been somewhat relaxed in the last twenty

years or so - "allowing" women and westerners to do

yoga, for instance. They even wear certain kinds of

clothing to distinguish themselves from the masses - for

example the string you see around Jois' and Sharath's

sholders is called a Brahman string. They have arranged

marriages and beliefs that seem anachronistic to us

westerners. I once had a roommate at art school - she was a

music department student - who came from a very

traditional and strict Brahman family and she was really

confused and put off by the freedom of American society.

She also looked down her nose at most of us for doing

things like washing dishes, eating non-vegetarian food

and having sex before marriage even though she was

constantly inviting strange men to the house. Go figure.

[Guest guest]

Funky, have you read "The God Of Small Things" by

Arundjati Roy? It's the most compelling book and one which

perfectly illustrates the extremes of the caste

system.<br><br>I had the joy of being able to spend some weeks

last year in Kerala and I call tell you that this

outrageously racist belief system is alive and well and so

obvious as to take your breath away. I was travelling

with my boyf, who's black, and my indian mates - one

high caste girl married to a white geezer and two Goan

guys who cheerfully described themsleves as the

equivalent of trailer trash. Apparently we were ALL pretty

unclean. It may be as spiritual as they come, but India is

one of the most racist counties I've ever been to

(Put it this way, I've never been refused entry to

hotel bars, or to actually stay in certain hotels

before... yeah me, the urban, yuppiefied, shiny haired

meeja hore. I don't think I would have had a problem if

I'd been with either a bunch of white shiny haired

meeja hores or a couple of high caste indians.) Go

figure.

[Guest guest]

If you enjoyed that book you might enjoys these

by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni. The Mistress of

Spices and Sister of My Heart. Also another new book

called Interpreter of Maladies by an Indian author

(can't remember) a collection of short stories which

were most enjoyable.

[Guest guest]

Mistress of Spices is one of my favorite books! :-)

[Guest guest]

Yoga Mala illumnates the method of Ashtanga Yoga

and so includes basic yet essential principles for

spiritual progress. <br>The mind of the spiritual aspirant

(like every other mind) is continually influenced by

all that it is exposed too. So the spiritual aspirant

seeks to influence the mind with positive, peaceful,

and uplifting impressions and at the same time to

limit disturbing and violent ones.<br>This is the

reason to avoid movies. Most movies are filled with

preposterous, ridiculous, violent, sexual and demeaning

content. Their images create references and "replays" of

the content that continue to disturb the mind long

after the film has been seen. These fictional

impressions co-exist with impressions from actual experiences

to increase confusion and disturb well-being. All

mental impressions as well as the tendecies that arise

from them are known as vasanas. It is beneficial to

cultivate positive vasanas of compassion, forgiveness,

mindfulness. This can be done by keeping company with saints,

spending time in nature, studying spiritual texts,

practicing yama and niyama,worshipping God, practicing Yoga,

reciting prayers and hymns, etc. Over time (lifetimes

perhaps) negative vasanas are eliminated and replaced by

positive ones. From this place of wellbeing one can

approach the first directive of the Yoga Sutras of

Patanjali; the elimnation of all vasana - Yogascitta vrtti

nirodha.<br><br>Unsavory people are ones that disturb an aspirant's

spiritual pursuits. Such unsavoury characters would be

abusers, drunks, drug users, fornicaters, adulterers,

atheists and those that demean the Guru. People who behave

in such manner are unsavoury regardless of their

class or caste.<br>Each caste upholds an important part

of tradtional civilization. Brahmin people have been

shouldered with the responsibility of preserving education,

spiritual traditions, and upholding daily religious

worship. Traditionally as well as currently, many Brahmins

follow these directives responsibly while many do

not.<br><br>All traditional peoples in India dress in a way that

conveys caste, class, marital status, form of God

worshipped, region, tribal status, ancestral vocation etc.

All traditional peoples follow rigid and strict

adherances and have arranged marriages (there are exceptions

including Sri Pattabhi Jois's which was a love marriage).

Most traditional cultures, especially in the emerging

countries, seem anachronistic to high and mighty,

colonialist, agnostic, fast paced, technologically impaired

"westerners". Religious peoples are always judged obtuse by

non-religious ones. Spritual seekers should keep the satsang

(company) of those who are like minded. <br><br>in faith,

missy pinky

[Guest guest]

I read interpreter of maladies only last week!

They WERE good stories weren't they. <br><br>If ya

like the indian thang, there's a fab book out by one

of our (the UK's) funniest comediennes, Meera Syal:

"Life Isn't All Ha Ha Hee Hee" - one of my best mates

(hello lovely Kuldeep) reckons the writer's got the life

of a bengali meejja hore spot on.

[Guest guest]

<< Most movies are filled with preposterous, ridiculous, violent, sexual

and demeaning content. >><br><br>So I take it this includes cinematic

masterpieces like the Godfather?

[Guest guest]

Sounds a bit too serious, religion-like. If you

are a spiritual seeker go ahead and do yoga,

meditate, drop acid (large doses will do the trick) but

don't believe _any_ crap about Gods etc.<br><br>Just my

two blotters worth @-D

[Guest guest]

It may seem prudish or ridiculous to suggest that

a yogi should avoid seeing movies, but I think

Missy P's post (5226) is a very thorough and accurate

explantion of where this comes from. Obviously some films

may be very positive, uplifting, inspiring, etc. but

many are filled with images which aren't helpful and

many are just a waste of time. I've certainly watched

quite a few films of every description and will

probably continue to do so. I love watching movies and I

usually get something out of any that I watch (of course

there are lots that I avoid). I've never been a great

fan of gangster/criminal films. It has always been

puzzling to me that criminals are the featured stars in so

many major films. I did recently watch all 3 (or is it

4?) Godfather films when someone loaned them to me.

They are masterpieces. They transported me to another

world. (is that a world I want to be in?) When I first

worked in a health food restaurant 25 years ago there

were lots of "spiritual yogis" there. A good influence

on me. One day someone mentioned a horror film that

they might go see. I always remembered the comment "I

don't need those pictures in my head". I think all

movies put pictures in your head (as Missy P explained).

What kind of pictures do you want to put in there? I

do think there can be value in watching war movies

or gangster movies to learn about people, history,

the world, etc. And it can be fun to watch a scary

movie. But personally I almost never watch horror films

because I don't need those pictures in my head.

<br><br>There's two sides to everything and I'm not saying anyone

shouldn't watch movies but I think Missy P explained the

theory behind the spiritual advice very well. If there

was going to be a rule for me, it would be to avoid

BAD movies. Just as it is good to avoid bad people,

bad food, etc. Of course it may not always be easy to

figure out what is "bad". I'm sure different things are

bad for different people at different times. Maybe

there's even a place beyond good and bad. <br><br>And if

you haven't seen my favorite movies page, its pretty

fun:

<a href=http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/favmovie.htm

target=new>http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/favmovie.htm</a><br><br>(I take no

responsibility for any pictures you put

into your own head)

[Guest guest]

sure images affect our subconscious, but are we

forgetting that we can control our subconscious? I read

somewhere that when watching a graphic/explicit movie,

repeat to yourself "this is a movie; it's not real."

Sort of talk to your inner child or whatever. Good

movies that contain violence (like Pulp Fiction) are

art. Our world was full of violence waaaaaay before

the advent of the camera, let alone the movie

projector. Watching a good movie unfold, if you like movies,

can be inspiring. Some of my favorite movies happen

to be Tarantino films and mob movies--that way of

life was/is real. Goodfellas is a true story, and the

acting in that is just magnificent. But also one of my

favorite films is the Princess Bride--full of seeming

innocent fairy tales and images that can be damaging to

the psyche in other ways, like "my prince will come

and rescue me" sort of thing.<br><br>P.S.

TL--Happiness and Welcome to the Dollhouse are GREAT movies--do

you remember the younger prissy sister ran around in

a PINK tutu and her name was MISSY!!! What a

coincidence!

[Guest guest]

But we are not in control of our unconscious, even the control over

consciousness is very limited. There was an excellent article about this in New

Scientist just recently.

[Guest guest]

ok yes, but if we are not in total control, then

can we assume a film can control us, even if the

images linger? What are the real effects: does watching

a film make us more angry, violent, or dull--or are

we just afraid it will? after watching a good movie,

it moves me and I love discussing it and analyzing

it with friends. It's what a filmmaker does with the

images that make the film transcend the actual subject

matter. It's negative self-talk and fear that are the

causes of our subconscious illness; movies have little

to do with it.<br><br>Sunshine<br><br>P.S. It is a

travesty to see billions of dollars wasted on crap films,

with that I agree!

[Guest guest]

I liked missy pinky's (clear and elegantly

phrased) message too, and am finding it (as well as other

messages on this subject) more than usually

thoughtprovoking. I suppose that all (well, almost all) of the

people reading this would agree that really trashy

movies don't do anybody any good. "The Godfather" seems

to me a good example of a (non-trashy) film that is

artistically successful, without being spiritually beneficial

(and I have to believe it would be verboten under the

missy pinky standard). Suggesting, after thinking about

the ramifications of all this in other fields

(literature, for instance), a larger chasm than I might have

thought between what is aesthetically good, and what is

spiritually uplifting. I suppose that if you are at a high

enough level, anything that takes you away from

continuous meditation on God, is detrimental.<br><br>What is

more surprising to me is that missy pinky's

explanation seems to leave open the possibility that some

films could be deemed OK even under the most extreme

standard, if their content is sufficiently "spiritual". I

had expected, I guess, some even more categorical,

Victorian or repressive explanation (something along the

lines of "it's bad to live in a fantasy world" or "idle

hands are the devil's playground"). At any rate, I am a

little surprised (but happy) to find out that it's not

something about movies per se that is at the root of the

objection. (I can still watch "Mary Poppins", right?)

[Guest guest]

<< I suppose that if you are at a high

enough level, anything that takes you away from

continuous meditation on God, is detrimental.

>><br><br>I've been having a hard time buying this lately. An

evolved, conscious being does not remove her/himself from

the world or the ugliness therein, but finds beauty

and truth and understanding and humor and acceptance

within it all. Engaging in the world, participating,

even getting lost in it for a while--these things can

be healthy, even beneficial to the path. But we all

have to do what works for us, do what makes us happier

beings, more full of joy.<br><br>P.S. It snowed today in

Vancouver and it stayed on the ground just long enough to

revel in it. :-)<br><br>P.S.S. Some movies and books

that contain spiritual material do nothing for the

soul. On the other hand, some aesthetically rich media,

poignant or disturbing as it may be, can uplift and

inspire.

[Guest guest]

""<< Most movies are filled with

preposterous, ridiculous, violent, sexual and demeaning

content. >><br><br>So I take it this includes

cinematic masterpieces like the Godfather? ""<br><br>not to

mention seditious, filthy, murderous tales such as "Old

Yeller", "Bambi", "Babette's Feast", "Ten Angry Men", etc.

far better to learn life's messages in the wholesome,

safe, clean and sane streets of the world, like new

delhi, NYC, Tienamen square, et al

[Guest guest]

Interpreter of Maladies<br>say, isn't that the first book authored by Jhumpa

Lahiri, for which she was awarded the pulitzer prize?

[Guest guest]

The Princess Bride is fabulous... it's on here

over Christmas and I shall be watching it with a glass

of vino and a selection of florentines whilst

snuggling into my scooby doo pyjamas. <br><br>It makes me

feel like a little girl - all the cynicism about fate,

the world, and cowardly useless blokes fades away.

Fairy tales do come true and all that. Wonderful.

<br><br>And hold off the backlash on the blokes statement -

it's a relefection on a couple of sad bastard

characters - not the human male as a whole... OK?

[Guest guest]

Could you quote something from Yoga Mala that you

found especially uplifting? I've read through the book,

and found it poorly written (especially in contrast

with Iyengar's wonderful introduction to LIGHT ON

YOGA). Also, I find a good bit of the advice Guruji

gives in Mala pretty suspect and rather

hysterical.<br><br>On the topic of Brahmins, how do you feel about

their contributions to the cause of Women's

Rights?<br><br>For example, did you know that not so long ago,

Brahmins advocated suttee? The idea here being that the

wife had no right to live should her husband die

before her, because her bad karma had obviously caused

her husbands permature death? And that if the wife

should be craven enough to NOT immolate herself on the

flaming pyre, that she should live the rest of her life

pretty much as an outcaste, despised by her

family?<br><br>Did you know that the Eastern custom of suttee was

only changed by Western influence? And that this

didn't take place overnight, because of the Brahmins

resistance to the West's "unenlightened" ways?<br><br>In not

blind faith, Unca S.

[Guest guest]

Screwgee, <br><br>In post #5778 you

said:<br>**************************<br> On the topic of Brahmins, how do you

feel about

their contributions to the cause of Women's

Rights?<br><br>For example, did you know that not so long ago,

Brahmins advocated suttee? The idea here being that the

wife had no right to live should her husband die

before her, because her bad karma had obviously caused

her husbands permature death? And that if the wife

should be craven enough to NOT immolate herself on the

flaming pyre, that she should live the rest of her life

pretty much as an outcaste, despised by her

family?<br><br>**************************<br>Can you give me any authoritative

textual references

which may back up your statements?<br><br>Thanks in

advance.<br><br>Nitya

[Guest guest]

There's a short piece on sati (wives' self-immolation) at <a

href=http://www.vivaaha.org/sati.htm

target=new>http://www.vivaaha.org/sati.htm</a><br>There's also a fairly recent

book, "Ashes of Immortality : Widow-Burning in India," but I haven't read it.

[Guest guest]

Check out:<br><br>THE HISTORY OF CELIBACY: From

Athena to Elizabeth I, Leonardo da Vinci, Florence

Nightingale, Gandhi, & Cher. (new book, very good

reading!)<br><br>The author name is Elizabeth Abbott, Professor @

Trinity College, Toronto.

[Guest guest]

Which is okay:<br><br>Hearing the Ramyana or

Mahabharata read, reading these epics, or seeing a film about

em'?<br><br>Just try and count up all the butchered beings in

these stories! It's like Sonny at the Tollboth to the

10power.<br><br>Perhaps the pundits of India (Brahmins?) were a bit

afraid of the theater because of the competition it

offered them.