Guest guest Report post Posted January 24, 2006 Hi All - Last week I listened to a pod broadcast interview with an Irishman named Michael Tsarion. He spoke with a broad paint brush but one thing that caught my attention was a statement where he said that Tantra was Gnosticism. I couldn't intellectually put the two together unless he has a different understanding of Gnosticism than I have. I don't automatically assume that esoteric and Gnosticism are the same things by the way. As far as I understand, the ontological roots for Tantra is significantly different than Gnosticism. Gnosticism usually dismisses the physical whereas Tantra tends to embraces it. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. Eric Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 24, 2006 As if the multitudes of amazingly varied lineages of "Tantra" fit in a neat little box. Typical Western scholar BS thinking. Pure ignorance. - Eric Otto Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:52 PM Gnosticism and Tantra Hi All - Last week I listened to a pod broadcast interview with an Irishman named Michael Tsarion. He spoke with a broad paint brush but one thing that caught my attention was a statement where he said that Tantra was Gnosticism. I couldn't intellectually put the two together unless he has a different understanding of Gnosticism than I have. I don't automatically assume that esoteric and Gnosticism are the same things by the way. As far as I understand, the ontological roots for Tantra is significantly different than Gnosticism. Gnosticism usually dismisses the physical whereas Tantra tends to embraces it. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. Eric a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 25, 2006 Hi Eric The statement that Tantra is Gnosticism is of course wrong. But there are intimate historical links between Manichean,and other gnostic teachings, to be found in the Tantras. Primal Tantric Teachings are usually connected with one of the Pithas or holy places. The teachings that show the strongest gnostic bias are usually connected with the Uddiyana Pitha, which was in the northwest of India. Especially buddhist Vajrayana Tantra shows a strong similiarity with manichean teachings. Actually these teachings may even predate Zarathustras aryan Dualism,and may have originated in a pre Zarathustrian and pre manichean Cult. So it remains open if tantra was influenced by gnosticism or gnosticism by tantra or both by an even older spiritual current. "I am androgynous. I am both Mother and Father since I copulate with myself. I copulate with myself and with those who love me... I am the Womb that gives shape to the All by giving birth to the Light..." (The Trimorphic Protennoia, from James M. Robinson's The Nag Hammadi Library, p.519, pub. A.D. 1978) Mahahradhanatha , "Eric Otto" <eottoe2001> wrote: > > > > Hi All - > > Last week I listened to a pod broadcast interview with an Irishman > named Michael Tsarion. He spoke with a broad paint brush but one thing > that caught my attention was a statement where he said that Tantra was > Gnosticism. I couldn't intellectually put the two together unless he > has a different understanding of Gnosticism than I have. I don't > automatically assume that esoteric and Gnosticism are the same things > by the way. > > As far as I understand, the ontological roots for Tantra is > significantly different than Gnosticism. Gnosticism usually dismisses > the physical whereas Tantra tends to embraces it. Any ideas on this > would be appreciated. > > Eric > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Adam V Report post Posted November 5, 2013 Epiphanius's attack against the gnostic borborites mentions some practices that could be construed as tantric, such as the harvesting of male and female emissions as the source of the eucharist (the body and blood of Christ) which is similar to the kaula circle culling of the kalas to form the holy Amrita. Also the gospel of philip is focused around the bridal-chamber, a possible name for the 'third eye' chakra, referencing the chamber where Shiva waits in meditation for his goddess-bride to find him. The practice of coitus interruptus can be found in both the Epiphanius source and the story of Shiva (along with many other ancient myths, like the Egyptian myth of the moon's creation through Horus ejaculating on a leaf of lettuce and Set feasting upon after Horus deftly caught Set's emission in his hand when his uncle attempted to rape him, only to later have Horus's seed come forth from Set's head to form the moon). Basically, how far to you want to go with it? One could say that any instance of sex and knowledge in a divine setting could have a connection to tantra, or one could say that this is idle speculation since there is little to no solid evidence of this. I wouldn't mind researching this very topic for a dissertation, however, since I think there could be more to it than first meets the eye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
