Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 I'm sorry, but Hanumanji will never bring trouble to anyone! - mahahradanatha Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:37 PM Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? Always burn a lot of incense and ring the bell very loud .... urinating of course only in the southwest corner. > Namaskaar > > This is quite a nice story > However in Puja practice Urination and defaecation > among a number of other things are considered as > defilements in worship. In certain Tantrik Sadhanas > these may be tolerated but NEVER in Hanuman Puja ! > This deity is a stickler for purity and to engage in > these things is inviting trouble of a kind you won't > like. > > Dhanyavaada > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > --- sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > yes > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:About this > > little story, Kochu - is it that Hanuman felt that > > defacating or urinating are not activities during > > which to invoke the > > divine, so Hanuman slapped the sadhaka and then > > found that the slap > > marks appeared on his Master? > > > > > > , sankara menon > > <kochu1tz> > > wrote: > > > > > There is no bar on the basis of gender or caste or > > whatever to Call > > GOD. > > > > > > there is a small story which i feel I must say. > > > There was this sadhaka who was going for natures > > call reciting rama > > mantra > > > wherever rama mantra is recited hanuman appears > > > so Hanuman camne and saw what was happening and > > slapped the fellow. > > When Hanuman when to Rama he found slap marks on him > > and he was > > outraged and asked im who didthat. Rama said it was > > you. he was > > stunned and Rama said whover calls me; i am him; so > > when u slapped > > him u slapped you slapped me. Think over this story. > > > > > > Anuratha Damothran <anurai58@g...> wrote: > > > Hi everyone! > > > i'm a new member of this group and i've enjoyed > > reading some mail > > on the group which were very interesting. > > > actually, i'm under saturn 7 1/2 year period n > > this is the last > > year and i'm facing alot of difficulties. > > > i got to know that worship hanuman and perumal > > will help to releive > > from the saturn effect. > > > can i know wheather ladies can chant hanuman > > mantra and chalisa at > > home? > > > is there any perumal mantra to chant? > > > what is the best time to chant hanuman mantra? > > > i 'm sorry for asking alot of question and i > > really hope someone > > could guide > > > me on this. > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion > > Different > > religions beliefs Shakti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > > to: > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > To from this group, send an email > > to: > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start your day with - make it your home page > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs Shakti a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 Hanuman slapping "Rama" that is - I got it right the first time but not the second for some reason :-P , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > Hello - I was also referencing Kochu's story about why Rama slapped > Hanuman in my reply to your previous post. > > Humble pranams, > MAV > > , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > , Dev Maharaj > > <dev_maharaj> wrote: > > > Namaskaar > > > > > > This is quite a nice story > > > However in Puja practice Urination and defaecation > > > among a number of other things are considered as > > > defilements in worship. In certain Tantrik Sadhanas > > > these may be tolerated but NEVER in Hanuman Puja ! > > > This deity is a stickler for purity and to engage in > > > these things is inviting trouble of a kind you won't > > > like. > > > > > > Dhanyavaada > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > > > The Impression I have of Hanuman is rather different. He can be > > very "naughty" sometimes. My questions : Do you actually perform > > Vira Sadhana? Please remember that you are in a group where there > > are many Viras here. They are silence but that does not mean they > do > > not read what is being posted in here. Its odd to have somebody who > > are not practitioner of Vira Sadhana coming to our group trying to > > give guidance to others about our Sadhana. > > > > We appreciate your generosity in giving guidance. It not too often > > we have a pandit coming to our group. Even my Beloved Guru will get > > very embarress when I tease him and call him Pandit. We thank you > > once again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 while farting of course! > > ... while urinating u mean? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 Namaste Shankara ji, I asked a question a couple of months ago..and your response below, along with the ones given by 2 others members (closer to the time of asking the question), answered it....thank you...all 3 of you. her_asha , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > and I would further like to add that I did not mean that we should do pooja while doing these things - mandatorily. > > I just meant there is no clean unclean concept. > > Similarly I remember my guru calling my wife to help in pooja preperations while she was in my house. My wife said she cannot because she is having her periods. Then she said "Dear who are we worshipping?? do u think Devi had menopause or had hysterctomy?? she is ever young and a a virile woman; so she must be having periods too. do we devine the periods and say she is unclean so we do not do pooja??? Not at all!! so in shakta tradition there is no such thing and forced her to participate in pooja; > > These are all restrictions imposed or specific reasons that are no longer relevant. Some traditionalists cling to these still now and they wallow in the world of duality never even attempting to reach the unitary stage that is all. > > Thats what i meant. However, having said that, I hasten to add that I have not fully reached the state of non-duality > > sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > magar panditji!! is not mala and mootra part of our body? always present? how can we purify the pot externally and yet retain these "unclean things inside and still do sadhana? > > it is my humble velief that what is required is mental purity. Are not these images of clean unclean; good bad; beautiful ugly etc. creation of duality from which we are trying to rise up? > > > Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> wrote: > Namaskaar > > This is quite a nice story > However in Puja practice Urination and defaecation > among a number of other things are considered as > defilements in worship. In certain Tantrik Sadhanas > these may be tolerated but NEVER in Hanuman Puja ! > This deity is a stickler for purity and to engage in > these things is inviting trouble of a kind you won't > like. > > Dhanyavaada > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > --- sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > yes > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote:About this > > little story, Kochu - is it that Hanuman felt that > > defacating or urinating are not activities during > > which to invoke the > > divine, so Hanuman slapped the sadhaka and then > > found that the slap > > marks appeared on his Master? > > > > > > , sankara menon > > <kochu1tz> > > wrote: > > > > > There is no bar on the basis of gender or caste or > > whatever to Call > > GOD. > > > > > > there is a small story which i feel I must say. > > > There was this sadhaka who was going for natures > > call reciting rama > > mantra > > > wherever rama mantra is recited hanuman appears > > > so Hanuman camne and saw what was happening and > > slapped the fellow. > > When Hanuman when to Rama he found slap marks on him > > and he was > > outraged and asked im who didthat. Rama said it was > > you. he was > > stunned and Rama said whover calls me; i am him; so > > when u slapped > > him u slapped you slapped me. Think over this story. > > > > > > Anuratha Damothran <anurai58@g...> wrote: > > > Hi everyone! > > > i'm a new member of this group and i've enjoyed > > reading some mail > > on the group which were very interesting. > > > actually, i'm under saturn 7 1/2 year period n > > this is the last > > year and i'm facing alot of difficulties. > > > i got to know that worship hanuman and perumal > > will help to releive > > from the saturn effect. > > > can i know wheather ladies can chant hanuman > > mantra and chalisa at > > home? > > > is there any perumal mantra to chant? > > > what is the best time to chant hanuman mantra? > > > i 'm sorry for asking alot of question and i > > really hope someone > > could guide > > > me on this. > > > thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 >it is my humble velief that what is required is mental purity. Are >not these images of clean unclean; good bad; beautiful ugly etc. >creation of duality from which we are trying to rise up? Thank you, Kochuji. This understanding is important for the healing of longstanding injuries to the female. It has too often been the case that misguided religious authorities (whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu) have advised women that they should not even pray while in their natural courses. There is never a time when we should be cut off from the divine. Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 Namaskaar I am very glad to hear that there are many Viras here and yes I do perform Vira sadhana - The point that I wish to make to you however is that because one can perform this type of sadhana this, to a wise person will not mean that he/she will do things that can/possibly will bring harm to themselves or others. The guidance that I attempt to give to every one is that which I believe will be simple, safe and practical. If you disbelieve what I said about Hanuman what I suggest you do, is to get a woman's menstruation, along with some faeces, urine, maybe also semen and ovarial fluid form a woman. Then go to the shamshan, evoke Hanuman (if you can !) and offer it to him by rubbing it on his body. Then if you are alive after we can possibly discuss what a great vira you are.! My dear people I have seen people who I considered to be excellent Sadhakas fall because of stupid errors, (even advanced souls can fall from Grace, there are no hard and fast rules about what a deity will or will not accept and from whom ). Always remember that what is written down in our texts are guidance from Gurus of the past and these things were relevant to them personally, what might be for you might be totally different. However when playing with a deity you had better be prepared to take what comes from the deity especially when doing Vira Sadhana. To achieve a unitary state with the deity may or may not occur in this life - this is by grace of guru and not other wise. It is therefore advisable to try to perform ones sadhana in a manner that is pleasing to the deity to the point that you can achieve grace. " Its odd to have somebody who are not practitioner of Vira Sadhana coming to our group trying to give guidance to others about our Sadhana." I am most curious as to how you came up with this astonishing revalation. FYI -Ask your guru if there are sometimes other spirit beings ( such as Yakshinis that impersonate deities and fool idiots into believing nonsense, ask him if these spirits will teach you all kinds of practices and sadhanas that lead a sadhaka away from his chosen path or that will have karmic consequences that will keep a Sadhaka in bondage. Also ask your guru about how many Sadhakas have died while attempting Vira sadhana foolishly or Vamachara practices that they don't understand or by invoking forces that they cannot control. As per the clean unclean concept, you should appreciate that there are levels of worship such as Nirguna Puja (no rules as this is for praising God) and Saguna Puja (with rules as these are for acquiring objects) Tantrik Sadhana also has Divya Sadhana Vira Sadhana Pashu Sadhana This again can vary according to the Math that you belong to Kaula, Samaya and Mishra Maths have very marked differences Then when you get into Dakshinachara or Vamachara practices these again have variances To achieve what is called the "unmani" state of mind where there is no duality, no distinctions is not an easy accomplishment. There are tibetan yogis who after fifty years of contemplation are regarded as men of little knowledge ! It is my intention to try to offer what ever I can towards helping people to perform worship as best as I know it. If you think my guidance unenlightened, uninformed, unwise or any other thing then please feel free to disregard this and do as you please ! At the end of the day it is the result that you personally obtain that will tell the truth - just ask your guru. Be careful little Viras and contemplate this. There are old soldiers and bold soldiers but no old and bold soldiers ! Dhanyavaad Pandit Devindra Maharaj --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: > Hanuman slapping "Rama" that is - I got it right the > first time but > not the second for some reason :-P > > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > Hello - I was also referencing Kochu's story about > why Rama > slapped > > Hanuman in my reply to your previous post. > > > > Humble pranams, > > MAV > > > > , "NMadasamy" > > <nmadasamy@s...> > > wrote: > > > , Dev > Maharaj > > > <dev_maharaj> wrote: > > > > Namaskaar > > > > > > > > This is quite a nice story > > > > However in Puja practice Urination and > defaecation > > > > among a number of other things are considered > as > > > > defilements in worship. In certain Tantrik > Sadhanas > > > > these may be tolerated but NEVER in Hanuman > Puja ! > > > > This deity is a stickler for purity and to > engage in > > > > these things is inviting trouble of a kind you > won't > > > > like. > > > > > > > > Dhanyavaada > > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > > > > > > The Impression I have of Hanuman is rather > different. He can be > > > very "naughty" sometimes. My questions : Do you > actually perform > > > Vira Sadhana? Please remember that you are in a > group where > there > > > are many Viras here. They are silence but that > does not mean > they > > do > > > not read what is being posted in here. Its odd > to have somebody > who > > > are not practitioner of Vira Sadhana coming to > our group trying > to > > > give guidance to others about our Sadhana. > > > > > > We appreciate your generosity in giving > guidance. It not too > often > > > we have a pandit coming to our group. Even my > Beloved Guru will > get > > > very embarress when I tease him and call him > Pandit. We thank > you > > > once again. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 Namaskaar Mary Ann "it's just the usual menstruation is bad/unclean, etc." In many of the Puja paddhatis it is stated that when worship is performed in this state that the Puja turns into Abhicara - Black magic and the results are sometimes very unfavourably to the sadhaka. Also there are five types of shuddhi which are Atma shuddhi - purity of soul - Mental and astral Deva shuddhi - purity of devi/devata Sthana Shuddhi purity of place of worship Drayva Shuddhi purity of articles of worship Bhuta Shuddhi purity of elements of ones body to accomplish worship successfully. Now even amongst Aghori tantriks there are mantras for purification of articles or worship etc. Further during the Navaratri puja all Kumaris in mentruation are forbidden from participation. These are the rules as given in the Devi Bhagavat - not mine. I am sorry if this is offensive to you but it was not intended to be, just a safe guard. Also yes Hanuman can be very mischievous and playful but never make the mistake of believing that this gives you the right to disrespect him. Always love him, give respect and he will help you. Try to do otherwise and he will give you the time of your life. I have had my knee shattered by him for arrogance in the past which is why I try to help others to avoid this mistake. But I guess the true viras can disregard my experience. Dhanyavaad Pandit Devindra Maharaj --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: > It's not your guidance, it's just the usual > menstruation is > bad/unclean, etc. that I think may be the reason > behind that > particular direction, you know, an old prejudice > against the female. > So, nothing personal. > > MAV > > , Dev Maharaj > <dev_maharaj> > wrote: > > Namaskaar > > > > Mary Ann it seems my guidance has provoked your > > wrath. What I have intended to do is to give you > the > > best and safest ways of doing this puja. If you > wish > > to > > disregard my advice please feel free to do so. The > > results will tell however - Ok. > > > > Dhanyavaada > > > > Pandit Devindra Maharaj > > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > And perhaps you should abstain from using the > toilet > > > too > > > > > > , Dev > Maharaj > > > <dev_maharaj> > > > wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Anuradhaji > > > > > > > > I wish to offer you some guidance on this as > > > follows > > > > Firstly yes you may worship Hanumanji but you > > > should > > > > observe the following ok > > > > > > > > Mandatory > > > > 1) Do not eat meat, drink alcohol or engage in > sex > > > for > > > > three days prior to his worship > > > > > > > > 2) If you are in menstruation (under all > > > circumstances > > > > > > > > - beginning, middle or end ) avoid > performing > > > his > > > > puja or having contact with materials. > > > > > > > > 3) If you are in menstruation you may recite > his > > > > mantra > > > > mentally only and not verbally. > > > > > > > > These may seem somewhat restrictive but I > assure > > > you > > > > very necessary > > > > > > > > To relieve the Shani graha - do the following > > > > Wake up early on Saturday morning, speak to no > > > one. > > > > Have a bathe using this mantra > > > > > > > > MANTRA FOR BATHING: > > > > "Aum Gange cha Yamune chaiva Godaavari, > Sarasvati, > > > > Narmade, Sindhu, Kaaveri Jalesmin Sannidhim > Kuru" > > > > While reciting look at the sun ( if it is not > > > there > > > > visualize it) and visualize the rays of > yellow, > > > white, > > > > red, blue, green, purple and gold entering the > > > water > > > > from the sun. Mantra is intended for > purification > > > and > > > > energizing of water. > > > > > > > > Wear clean red clothes (undergarments as well) > > > > Go to your altar and light a deeya filled with > > > mustard > > > > oil. > > > > Perform evocation in the following way > > > > > > > > Concentrate on the Ganesha murti and in the > middle > > > of > > > > it visualize AUM, tell your higher self that > you > > > have > > > > connected to the energy that produces AUM, > keep > > > > reciting AUM for 108 times and when you feel > > > mentally > > > > comfortable that the energy is present in the > > > murti, > > > > then visulize the Sanskrit Bija of Ganesha > > > (Gang)in > > > > the middle of the murti. On the top of it is > the > > > bindu > > > > visualize a golden light forming from this > bindu > > > and > > > > filling the entire murti ( while mentally > reciting > > > the > > > > mantra ) Aum Gang Ganapataye Namah - 108 > times. > > > > Tell your higher self that you are connected > to > > > the > > > > energy that produces Gang. When you feel > > > comfortable > > > > ask The Energy (Lord Ganesha) to manifest > itself > > > in > > > > your murti. Here you may offer whatever > Upacharas > > > your > > > > heart desires. I will tell you though that > Lord > > > > Ganesha is particularly fond of Drinking Milk > and > > > > eating Modakas, Laddus and various other > sweets > > > and > > > > fruits. Please remember when the energy > manifests > > > > itself to bow and pay obseiance as this is an > act > > > of > > > > grace. . Lord Ganesha is always evoked first > to > > > remove > > > > your obstacles in worship. > > > > > > > > Next repeat the procedure for Lord Hanuman > using > > > the > > > > Bija Hrim pronounced Hring on the Hanuman > Murti > > > > visualize as red colour. Mantra to recite 108 > > > times > > > > OM Sri Hanumate Namah > > > > > > > > Offer Lord Hanuman Water, (sweetened fresh > milk > > > if > > > > you can get), Scent, Dhupa (Sandalwood), Red > > > flower, > > > > Lighted Diya, Chandan and Food (Nuts, Bananas > and > > > > other juicy fruits are his favourites) > > > > > > > > What ever you offer should be left untouched > > > > for at least three hours and can then be taken > a > > > > prashad (sacrament) > > > > > > > > Recite the Hanuman Chalisa eleven times > without > > > > stopping. After this you can recite the > Hanuman > > > Mala > > > > Mantra which is guraranteed to remove all > kinds of > > > > problems including planetary ones. If you > cant' > > > get > > > > this let me know and I will try to type it out > for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > Be sincere and prostrate your self in thought > word > > > and > > > > deed. Now worship Lord Hanuman not as Mahavira > ( > > > great > > > > Hero) but lovingly as a baby, treat him with > all > > > > reverence and you will see results in your > > > worship. > > > > > > > > To worship him as Mahavira requires Vira > Sadhana > === message truncated === Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 1, 2005 Namskaar Max, if you read my post I said Puja should not be performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. What I also wrote is that in order to recite his mantra it could be done mentally and not verbally. This would suggest one can say mental prayer but not engage in the physical evocation. This by the way is not meant as an injury to females but rather for their protection. I wish to tell you why, during a woman's mentruation there is a sort of scent emitted from her body, if this is allowed to pervade the deities Naivedya (food) it is considered unclean and not accepted. Please understand there are also restrictions for males who have engaged in sex (masturbation ) etc. So it is not intended as an affront to females. The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should always be in the highest state of purity. Saucha is one of the pillars of Sanatan Dharma. Dhanyavaada Pandit Devindra Maharaj --- Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > >it is my humble velief that what is required is > mental purity. Are > >not these images of clean unclean; good bad; > beautiful ugly etc. > >creation of duality from which we are trying to > rise up? > > Thank you, Kochuji. This understanding is important > for the healing > of longstanding injuries to the female. It has too > often been the > case that misguided religious authorities (whether > Christian, Muslim, > Jewish, Hindu) have advised women that they should > not even pray > while in their natural courses. There is never a > time when we should > be cut off from the divine. > > Max > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > Global Women's History > http://www.suppressedhistories.net > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Namasthe I would like to add my bit of story. This is told by Bhagwan Ramakrishna paramahamsa. Once a king has been initiated into vedantha by his Guru who narrated that everything is same god and as such all are equal.Taking this advantage he started enjoying many ladies in his harem and made his queen miserable. After remaining patient for a long time she could not help but to narrate this to his Guru. Guru felt guilty and he said when you are serving meals to King along with me serve human stool also in the palm leaf. The queen was a bit hesitating but the Guru insisted her to do this. When the serving was done accordingly, King keeping his nose closed shouted at her. But guru controlled him and told why are u shouting that is also a dish to eat, since everything is equal. The king retorted and asked his guru to eat. Then the Guru turned himself as pig and ate it. The king stunned and realised his mistake. The reason to narrate this here is we should always interpret the situations and the status of the persons involved in the situation. Remember that the enlightenment of wisdom is the conversation between Rama and Hanuman. As such if we raise upto their status, we can understand the knowledge , otherwise we would do as the king did. Therefore please beware of overstimating our knowledge and personality. Humbly yours S.Krishnamoorthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Namaste panditji > if you read my post I said Puja should not be >performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. Yes, I understood that, and also your advice to do the mantra mentally. My post was not directed at you, but toward the more general topic that arose in the discussion over the "uncleanness" of menses. What I was saying about the injuries to the female has even broader meaning, but here I was thinking about the often-disrespectful way that women have been treated, across many cultures as I said, for being in their courses or even suspected of being in that state. Barred from priesthood, from temples, and what-not. In a purely animistic sense, I can understand a rationale that the blood flow has an association with the dead ovum and might not be conducive to, say, ceremonies of increase, but then to be consistent, women in ovulation should be at the pinnacle of candidates for officiating at religious ceremonies, and this is not the case. In many indigenous traditions women go into seclusion during this time, but are perceived as being in deep states of communion. I stand by my statement that there is never, ever, a time when we should be cut off from the divine, and that includes speaking to our Source. >The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should >always be in the highest state of purity. Even the Divine Mother is described as menstruating; is she therefore impure? Spiritual purity is not conditional on the physical state, it is an attribute of consciousness. An old woman who is dirty because she is poor and lives on the streets, but has a heart full of compassion and love, or an avadhuti, may be worlds above a silk-clad aspirant who does all the rites according to the book. You just never know where the highest state of purity may be found. jai Maa, Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Right on!!! Jai Maa!!! - Max Dashu Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:00 PM Re: Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? Namaste panditji > if you read my post I said Puja should not be >performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. Yes, I understood that, and also your advice to do the mantra mentally. My post was not directed at you, but toward the more general topic that arose in the discussion over the "uncleanness" of menses. What I was saying about the injuries to the female has even broader meaning, but here I was thinking about the often-disrespectful way that women have been treated, across many cultures as I said, for being in their courses or even suspected of being in that state. Barred from priesthood, from temples, and what-not. In a purely animistic sense, I can understand a rationale that the blood flow has an association with the dead ovum and might not be conducive to, say, ceremonies of increase, but then to be consistent, women in ovulation should be at the pinnacle of candidates for officiating at religious ceremonies, and this is not the case. In many indigenous traditions women go into seclusion during this time, but are perceived as being in deep states of communion. I stand by my statement that there is never, ever, a time when we should be cut off from the divine, and that includes speaking to our Source. >The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should >always be in the highest state of purity. Even the Divine Mother is described as menstruating; is she therefore impure? Spiritual purity is not conditional on the physical state, it is an attribute of consciousness. An old woman who is dirty because she is poor and lives on the streets, but has a heart full of compassion and love, or an avadhuti, may be worlds above a silk-clad aspirant who does all the rites according to the book. You just never know where the highest state of purity may be found. jai Maa, Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs Shakti a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Some of the information you provide can result in serious problems. Tantric ritual procedures include powerful methods, just taking out some part of them without knowledge is either useless or in the worst case can cause problems. Mixing in only tantric parts like bijas and mantra in devotional rituals without the knowledge of the how and why is like trying to make a bycycle drive faster by filling petrol in the pocket of the driver and igniting it with a lighter. , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> wrote: If you think my guidance unenlightened, uninformed, unwise or any other thing then please feel free to disregard this and do as you please ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 This topic has been rehashed in this forum for the last few days. I think the following passage gives some food for thought. Everyone can take something from. I know it is a extremely difficult subject and I would recommend onefollow one's guru in this regard. The Ambuvaci (Ameti as is known in some parts of Assam), a menstruation ritual, is celebrated once a year in the first part of the month of Asadha. Mother Earth (goddess Kamakhya) becomes ‘impure’ due to menses. It lasts for three days and during this period the temple doors are closed and pilgrims are not allowed inside the temple. How ever, on the fourth day the doors of the shrine are opened and pilgrims, gathered for the opportune occasion from different parts of Assam including West Bengal and Orissa, are allowed inside the temple. The Devi Bhagavata puts it thus: - "During the first quarter of the Ardra constellation, the Earth remains in her menses. The name of the Earth in menses is Ambuvaci; your worship will be done on a day when that flow is stopped. " The Devi Bhagavata continues: - "Oh Sankari, one should not dig the earth even by the tip of a needle. One should avoid sowing seeds for 24 praharas (i.e. for 72 hours). If one sows by mistake, one should allow the cattle to eat the shoots up. If one eats, one should perform a penance of Krchhra, and if one digs, one should perform a titakanchana (i.e. make a gift of sesamum and gold), for (on that occasion) and the mother goddesses like Durga remain in menses". It is the time of the year when the Mother Earth attains her fertility to conceive the crops. The agriculturists; particularly in Assam take this time of the year to sow their first seedlings of the Sali paddy, which is transplanted after a few weeks. To symbolise the occasion only red flowers, red vermilion, etc., are used. Red colour signifies the menstrual flow. On this occasion pieces of red cloth, with the deity’s menstrual blood, are given to the votaries as sacred symbols. This fair subsists even at present Quoted from Fairs and Festivals of Assam, p. 30 -------------- Original message -------------- Namaste panditji > if you read my post I said Puja should not be >performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. Yes, I understood that, and also your advice to do the mantra mentally. My post was not directed at you, but toward the more general topic that arose in the discussion over the "uncleanness" of menses. What I was saying about the injuries to the female has even broader meaning, but here I was thinking about the often-disrespectful way that women have been treated, across many cultures as I said, for being in their courses or even suspected of being in that state. Barred from priesthood, from temples, and what-not. In a purely animistic sense, I can understand a rationale that the blood flow has an association with the dead ovum and might not be conducive to, say, ceremonies of increase, but then to be consistent, women in ovulation should be at the pinnacle of candidates for officiating at religious ceremonies, and this is not the case. In many indigenous traditions women go into seclusion during this time, but are perceived as being in deep states of communion. I stand by my statement that there is never, ever, a time when we should be cut off from the divine, and that includes speaking to our Source. >The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should >always be in the highest state of purity. Even the Divine Mother is described as menstruating; is she therefore impure? Spiritual purity is not conditional on the physical state, it is an attribute of consciousness. An old woman who is dirty because she is poor and lives on the streets, but has a heart full of compassion and love, or an avadhuti, may be worlds above a silk-clad aspirant who does all the rites according to the book. You just never know where the highest state of purity may be found. jai Maa, Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs Shakti Visit your group "" on the web. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 And that cloth steeped in that Menses is one of the most powerful and revered Tantrik objects. - <bsubramaniam <> Friday, September 02, 2005 5:47 AM Re: Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? This topic has been rehashed in this forum for the last few days. I think the following passage gives some food for thought. Everyone can take something from. I know it is a extremely difficult subject and I would recommend onefollow one's guru in this regard. The Ambuvaci (Ameti as is known in some parts of Assam), a menstruation ritual, is celebrated once a year in the first part of the month of Asadha. Mother Earth (goddess Kamakhya) becomes 'impure' due to menses. It lasts for three days and during this period the temple doors are closed and pilgrims are not allowed inside the temple. How ever, on the fourth day the doors of the shrine are opened and pilgrims, gathered for the opportune occasion from different parts of Assam including West Bengal and Orissa, are allowed inside the temple. The Devi Bhagavata puts it thus: - "During the first quarter of the Ardra constellation, the Earth remains in her menses. The name of the Earth in menses is Ambuvaci; your worship will be done on a day when that flow is stopped. " The Devi Bhagavata continues: - "Oh Sankari, one should not dig the earth even by the tip of a needle. One should avoid sowing seeds for 24 praharas (i.e. for 72 hours). If one sows by mistake, one should allow the cattle to eat the shoots up. If one eats, one should perform a penance of Krchhra, and if one digs, one should perform a titakanchana (i.e. make a gift of sesamum and gold), for (on that occasion) and the mother goddesses like Durga remain in menses". It is the time of the year when the Mother Earth attains her fertility to conceive the crops. The agriculturists; particularly in Assam take this time of the year to sow their first seedlings of the Sali paddy, which is transplanted after a few weeks. To symbolise the occasion only red flowers, red vermilion, etc., are used. Red colour signifies the menstrual flow. On this occasion pieces of red cloth, with the deity's menstrual blood, are given to the votaries as sacred symbols. This fair subsists even at present Quoted from Fairs and Festivals of Assam, p. 30 -------------- Original message -------------- Namaste panditji > if you read my post I said Puja should not be >performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. Yes, I understood that, and also your advice to do the mantra mentally. My post was not directed at you, but toward the more general topic that arose in the discussion over the "uncleanness" of menses. What I was saying about the injuries to the female has even broader meaning, but here I was thinking about the often-disrespectful way that women have been treated, across many cultures as I said, for being in their courses or even suspected of being in that state. Barred from priesthood, from temples, and what-not. In a purely animistic sense, I can understand a rationale that the blood flow has an association with the dead ovum and might not be conducive to, say, ceremonies of increase, but then to be consistent, women in ovulation should be at the pinnacle of candidates for officiating at religious ceremonies, and this is not the case. In many indigenous traditions women go into seclusion during this time, but are perceived as being in deep states of communion. I stand by my statement that there is never, ever, a time when we should be cut off from the divine, and that includes speaking to our Source. >The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should >always be in the highest state of purity. Even the Divine Mother is described as menstruating; is she therefore impure? Spiritual purity is not conditional on the physical state, it is an attribute of consciousness. An old woman who is dirty because she is poor and lives on the streets, but has a heart full of compassion and love, or an avadhuti, may be worlds above a silk-clad aspirant who does all the rites according to the book. You just never know where the highest state of purity may be found. jai Maa, Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs Shakti Visit your group "" on the web. Links Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Are you referring to the following? "On this occasion pieces of red cloth, with the deity’s menstrual blood, are given to the votaries as sacred symbols. The 'menstrual blood' is created by the sacrifice of male animals". -------------- Original message -------------- And that cloth steeped in that Menses is one of the most powerful and revered Tantrik objects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i deity (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by Amma's press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female and male, and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and damaging beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage individually and culturally. , Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...> wrote: > >it is my humble velief that what is required is mental purity. Are > >not these images of clean unclean; good bad; beautiful ugly etc. > >creation of duality from which we are trying to rise up? > > Thank you, Kochuji. This understanding is important for the healing > of longstanding injuries to the female. It has too often been the > case that misguided religious authorities (whether Christian, Muslim, > Jewish, Hindu) have advised women that they should not even pray > while in their natural courses. There is never a time when we should > be cut off from the divine. > > Max > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > Global Women's History > http://www.suppressedhistories.net > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i deity > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by Amma's > press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female and male, > and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and damaging > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage > individually and culturally. > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would she allow women who are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she came here in singapore, one of the devotees told me she being advise not to join in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I have never heard that Amma has turned away menstruating women. I have never heard mention of this topic at all in the years I have been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by > Amma's > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female and > male, > > and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and damaging > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage > > individually and culturally. > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would she allow women who > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she came here in > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being advise not to join > in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Namaskaar Mary Ann, I would like to share a small experience with you. Once I went to a Sahaja Yoga session where I saw a young girl from Germany performing a ritual to remove negative energy from people, she continued doing this for about 1 hour and then I noticed a remarkable change in her complexion and demeanour. I went over and enquired about her condition and she informed me that she suddenly started feeling very ill. Due to her aura I detected that she was in mentruation and asked her to stop doing the ritual, she complied. I used a couple of my crystals and removed the negative energy she had absorbed. After this her complexion returned to normal. She could not believe the amount of energy she had absorbed and apparently was not properly informed by whoever taught her this ritual either. Then I explained to her about the use of mantras and pranic energy and explained that during mentruation it is a time of cleaning and healing for a woman's body. The chakras can operate somewhat differently from normal and to further complicate things there are a whole lot of energy fluctuations in the aura which makes this a vulnerable time for women. To worship a deity like Lord Hanuman during this time is dangerous for a number of reasons 1) If smaller bhutas (elementals) attach themselves to the aura to feed on the energy from the menses, this can have adverse effects in worship 2) When Lord Hanuman manifests or any deity for that matter, there is normally a disturbance in the pranas of the individual. Pranas are thought to be a componenet of the mind stuff. There are many people that have had shaktipat only to wind up in a mental institution. 3) Especially with Lord Hanuman, the level of power that descends has to be borne by a person of great purity as if impurities are present the resultant reaction can cause irreversible neurological damage. Its like mixing fire and ice together. Do not get me wrong, menstruation in many of the Kaulika sadhana is considered to be an elixir and full of creative power but this has never been a part of Lord Hanuman's worship. Each deity has its own personal likes and dislikes and what is acceptable to one may not be to all. For example as you discussed the Devi's worship, it should interest you to know that Laskhmi Ma is a stickler for purity while Kali Ma may let you get away with the same according to her mood. I am sorry if this presents a problem from an intellectual perspective however I think in this particular instance that it is better to be safe than sorry. Regards --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61 wrote: > I have never heard that Amma has turned away > menstruating women. I > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the > years I have > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > , "NMadasamy" > <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > , "Mary Ann" > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > I also want to say that according to the > Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a > book published by > > Amma's > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human > being is female and > > male, > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess > incorrect and damaging > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause > further damage > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would > she allow women > who > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she > came here in > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being > advise not to join > > in. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Yes. - <bsubramaniam <> Friday, September 02, 2005 7:52 AM Re: Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? Are you referring to the following? "On this occasion pieces of red cloth, with the deity's menstrual blood, are given to the votaries as sacred symbols. The 'menstrual blood' is created by the sacrifice of male animals". -------------- Original message -------------- And that cloth steeped in that Menses is one of the most powerful and revered Tantrik objects. Links Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 That's right. Amma also has woman pujaris in her unique 4-faced monlith statue temples; this is a first for Indian society. Also, many traditioanlly devotional women do not chant the LS or attend bhajans/satsang during menses; most woman devotees of Amma do not follow this injunction with Amma's blessings. Nora, you may have been mis-advised by some traditional-minded woman who brought her baggage of past teachings and may have passed it off as Amma's "dictum". , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > I have never heard that Amma has turned away menstruating women. I > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the years I have > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> > wrote: > > , "Mary Ann" > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by > > Amma's > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female and > > male, > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and damaging > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would she allow women > who > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she came here in > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being advise not to join > > in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 Just to add to this post, Once Trilanga swami, worshiped the linga in Kashi vishwanath temple with his own urine and faeces. bsubramaniam wrote: This topic has been rehashed in this forum for the last few days. I think the following passage gives some food for thought. Everyone can take something from. I know it is a extremely difficult subject and I would recommend onefollow one's guru in this regard. The Ambuvaci (Ameti as is known in some parts of Assam), a menstruation ritual, is celebrated once a year in the first part of the month of Asadha. Mother Earth (goddess Kamakhya) becomes ‘impure’ due to menses. It lasts for three days and during this period the temple doors are closed and pilgrims are not allowed inside the temple. How ever, on the fourth day the doors of the shrine are opened and pilgrims, gathered for the opportune occasion from different parts of Assam including West Bengal and Orissa, are allowed inside the temple. The Devi Bhagavata puts it thus: - "During the first quarter of the Ardra constellation, the Earth remains in her menses. The name of the Earth in menses is Ambuvaci; your worship will be done on a day when that flow is stopped. " The Devi Bhagavata continues: - "Oh Sankari, one should not dig the earth even by the tip of a needle. One should avoid sowing seeds for 24 praharas (i.e. for 72 hours). If one sows by mistake, one should allow the cattle to eat the shoots up. If one eats, one should perform a penance of Krchhra, and if one digs, one should perform a titakanchana (i.e. make a gift of sesamum and gold), for (on that occasion) and the mother goddesses like Durga remain in menses". It is the time of the year when the Mother Earth attains her fertility to conceive the crops. The agriculturists; particularly in Assam take this time of the year to sow their first seedlings of the Sali paddy, which is transplanted after a few weeks. To symbolise the occasion only red flowers, red vermilion, etc., are used. Red colour signifies the menstrual flow. On this occasion pieces of red cloth, with the deity’s menstrual blood, are given to the votaries as sacred symbols. This fair subsists even at present Quoted from Fairs and Festivals of Assam, p. 30 -------------- Original message -------------- Namaste panditji > if you read my post I said Puja should not be >performed which is the evocation of Hanuman. Yes, I understood that, and also your advice to do the mantra mentally. My post was not directed at you, but toward the more general topic that arose in the discussion over the "uncleanness" of menses. What I was saying about the injuries to the female has even broader meaning, but here I was thinking about the often-disrespectful way that women have been treated, across many cultures as I said, for being in their courses or even suspected of being in that state. Barred from priesthood, from temples, and what-not. In a purely animistic sense, I can understand a rationale that the blood flow has an association with the dead ovum and might not be conducive to, say, ceremonies of increase, but then to be consistent, women in ovulation should be at the pinnacle of candidates for officiating at religious ceremonies, and this is not the case. In many indigenous traditions women go into seclusion during this time, but are perceived as being in deep states of communion. I stand by my statement that there is never, ever, a time when we should be cut off from the divine, and that includes speaking to our Source. >The idea is that in order to revere the divine one should >always be in the highest state of purity. Even the Divine Mother is described as menstruating; is she therefore impure? Spiritual purity is not conditional on the physical state, it is an attribute of consciousness. An old woman who is dirty because she is poor and lives on the streets, but has a heart full of compassion and love, or an avadhuti, may be worlds above a silk-clad aspirant who does all the rites according to the book. You just never know where the highest state of purity may be found. jai Maa, Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Global Women's History http://www.suppressedhistories.net Shakti gawain Hinduism Sadhana Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs Shakti Visit your group "" on the web. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > [...] Amma also has woman pujaris in her unique 4-faced > monlith statue temples; this is a first for Indian society. Here's a rather old article on the subject: Woman priests in Kerala end male monopoly The Indian Express Nov. 1997 http://www.hvk.org/articles/1197/0068.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I forgot to write a note on the "flip" side. Pandit-ji, I respect your knowledge of the sastras and traditions. The point is, that unless: 1. you have a lineage that provides rules for you, or 2. you have the strong overriding blessings of your guru to ignore certain sastric injunctions, or 3. your own convinction is unshakeable, or 4. you have attained (The story by Ramakrishna posted by someone was also very relevant to prove this point). you are better off taking recourse to sastric injunctins. In my viewpoint, there are no black and white answers here, just like most of life is. Jai Ma , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > That's right. Amma also has woman pujaris in her unique 4-faced > monlith statue temples; this is a first for Indian society. > > Also, many traditioanlly devotional women do not chant the LS or > attend bhajans/satsang during menses; most woman devotees of Amma do > not follow this injunction with Amma's blessings. > > Nora, you may have been mis-advised by some traditional-minded woman > who brought her baggage of past teachings and may have passed it off > as Amma's "dictum". > > > > > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > I have never heard that Amma has turned away menstruating women. I > > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the years I have > > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > > > , "NMadasamy" > <nmadasamy@s...> > > wrote: > > > , "Mary Ann" > > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i > deity > > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by > > > Amma's > > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female > and > > > male, > > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and > damaging > > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage > > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would she allow > women > > who > > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she came here in > > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being advise not to > join > > > in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I remember that story! - suresh deepak Just to add to this post, Once Trilanga swami, worshiped the linga in Kashi vishwanath temple with his own urine and faeces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
