Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 though this is true, it does come up amongst the more traditional indian women serving Her more closely. They don't touch puja items when they are "out". If you remember Gayatri, who became Sw. Amma, she tells of how she would cry because she wouldn't be able to serve Amma when she was menstruating and wanted to be free of it and finally she got some kind of ovarian cancer and had to have them removed and then no longer menstruated. For those that don't know, Amma has never menstruated. She truly is Kanyakumari Devi incarnate! Jai Maa! Surya - Mary Ann Friday, September 02, 2005 10:25 AM Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? I have never heard that Amma has turned away menstruating women. I have never heard mention of this topic at all in the years I have been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 This does not surprise me, nor offend me. Amma is succeeding in a very patriarchal culture and world, and I recognize a master politician speaking to very many different kinds of people and managing to appeal to each and all of them. There are things Amma does that I feel don't necessarily respect the female/feminine embodied form, such as working herself so hard, saying that it's better to burn the body out than not attend to people who are hurting. I see her female devotees doing this to themselves, and I know it's a mistake. But can I be Amma to Amma and tell her so? I think I will write her a letter , "Mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > though this is true, it does come up amongst the more traditional indian women serving Her more closely. They don't touch puja items when they are "out". > > If you remember Gayatri, who became Sw. Amma, she tells of how she would cry because she wouldn't be able to serve Amma when she was menstruating and wanted to be free of it and finally she got some kind of ovarian cancer and had to have them removed and then no longer menstruated. > > For those that don't know, Amma has never menstruated. She truly is Kanyakumari Devi incarnate! > > Jai Maa! > > Surya > - > Mary Ann > > Friday, September 02, 2005 10:25 AM > Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? > > > I have never heard that Amma has turned away menstruating women. I > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the years I have > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I think I understand this. It reminds me of Devi Bhakta telling me about how the Khadgamala Stotrum is a mathematical formula, essentially, and that there is no cause to take issue with its sword- weilding, master of the universe ways. I don't think that making changes in order to end harmful, biased practices takes away any true power that exists in the original rituals or practices. After all, it is the energy, the essence, that is what counts, not the form. But then why oh why do so many insist on the form? I think this is why Deepak Chopra appeals to me far more than rituals like the KS. Dr. Chopra talks in more objective terms about physics; that works better for me. It means parting with tradition in a number of ways on a number of levels, but all worthwhile to me. , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> wrote: > Namaskaar > > Mary Ann, I would like to share a small experience > with you. Once I went to a Sahaja Yoga session where I > saw a young girl from Germany performing a ritual to > remove negative energy from people, she continued > doing this for about 1 hour and then I noticed a > remarkable change in her complexion and demeanour. I > went over and enquired about her condition and she > informed me that she suddenly started feeling very > ill. Due to her aura I detected that she was in > mentruation and asked her to stop doing the ritual, > she complied. I used a couple of my crystals and > removed the negative energy she had absorbed. After > this her complexion returned to normal. She could not > believe the amount of energy she had absorbed and > apparently was not properly informed by whoever taught > her this ritual either. > > Then I explained to her about the use of mantras and > pranic energy and explained that during mentruation it > is a time of cleaning and healing for a woman's body. > > The chakras can operate somewhat differently from > normal and to further complicate things there are a > whole lot of energy fluctuations in the aura which > makes this a vulnerable time for women. > > To worship a deity like Lord Hanuman during this time > is dangerous for a number of reasons > 1) If smaller bhutas (elementals) attach themselves to > > the aura to feed on the energy from the menses, > this > can have adverse effects in worship > > 2) When Lord Hanuman manifests or any deity for that > matter, there is normally a disturbance in the > pranas of the individual. Pranas are thought to be > > a componenet of the mind stuff. There are many > people that have had shaktipat only to wind up in a > > mental institution. > > 3) Especially with Lord Hanuman, the level of power > that descends has to be borne by a person of great > purity as if impurities are present the resultant > reaction can cause irreversible neurological > damage. > Its like mixing fire and ice together. > > Do not get me wrong, menstruation in many of the > Kaulika sadhana is considered to be an elixir and full > of creative power but this has never been a part of > Lord Hanuman's worship. Each deity has its own > personal likes and dislikes and what is acceptable to > one may not be to all. For example as you discussed > the Devi's worship, it should interest you to know > that Laskhmi Ma is a stickler for purity while Kali Ma > may let you get away with the same according to her > mood. > > I am sorry if this presents a problem from an > intellectual perspective however I think in this > particular instance that it is better to be safe than > sorry. > > Regards > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > I have never heard that Amma has turned away > > menstruating women. I > > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the > > years I have > > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > > > , "NMadasamy" > > <nmadasamy@s...> > > wrote: > > > , "Mary Ann" > > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > I also want to say that according to the > > Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a > > book published by > > > Amma's > > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human > > being is female and > > > male, > > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess > > incorrect and damaging > > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause > > further damage > > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would > > she allow women > > who > > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she > > came here in > > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being > > advise not to join > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2005 I want to say, also, that I have reread your post below, and I do understand and appreciate what you say. When put in those terms, it makes sense, and even comes across as quite tender. Deepak Chopra says that if it weren't for our slow senses, we would perceive a very, very different world. I think "personifying" deities like Hanuman is a way of "perceiving" some of that world beyond our senses. It's like when, in Contact, Jodi Foster just went through the amazing experience of traveling in a ship built by following blueprints that were transmitted to Earth from outer space - and her trip came after amazing upheaval on Earth, including the murder of a colleague and destruction of the ship due to religious fundamentalist fears. After the trip, Jodi finds herself on a beach watching a lone figure walking toward her. It's her father, who died when she was a child (in the beginning of the film) because the information/energy is appearing in a form that she can recognize and welcome. I can tell you this much: Hanuman is not the creature that would come to me in that moment. And that information/energy would not require that I perceive/receive Hanuman, either. , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > I think I understand this. It reminds me of Devi Bhakta telling me > about how the Khadgamala Stotrum is a mathematical formula, > essentially, and that there is no cause to take issue with its sword- > weilding, master of the universe ways. > > I don't think that making changes in order to end harmful, biased > practices takes away any true power that exists in the original > rituals or practices. After all, it is the energy, the essence, that > is what counts, not the form. But then why oh why do so many insist > on the form? > > I think this is why Deepak Chopra appeals to me far more than rituals > like the KS. Dr. Chopra talks in more objective terms about physics; > that works better for me. It means parting with tradition in a number > of ways on a number of levels, but all worthwhile to me. > > , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> > wrote: > > Namaskaar > > > > Mary Ann, I would like to share a small experience > > with you. Once I went to a Sahaja Yoga session where I > > saw a young girl from Germany performing a ritual to > > remove negative energy from people, she continued > > doing this for about 1 hour and then I noticed a > > remarkable change in her complexion and demeanour. I > > went over and enquired about her condition and she > > informed me that she suddenly started feeling very > > ill. Due to her aura I detected that she was in > > mentruation and asked her to stop doing the ritual, > > she complied. I used a couple of my crystals and > > removed the negative energy she had absorbed. After > > this her complexion returned to normal. She could not > > believe the amount of energy she had absorbed and > > apparently was not properly informed by whoever taught > > her this ritual either. > > > > Then I explained to her about the use of mantras and > > pranic energy and explained that during mentruation it > > is a time of cleaning and healing for a woman's body. > > > > The chakras can operate somewhat differently from > > normal and to further complicate things there are a > > whole lot of energy fluctuations in the aura which > > makes this a vulnerable time for women. > > > > To worship a deity like Lord Hanuman during this time > > is dangerous for a number of reasons > > 1) If smaller bhutas (elementals) attach themselves to > > > > the aura to feed on the energy from the menses, > > this > > can have adverse effects in worship > > > > 2) When Lord Hanuman manifests or any deity for that > > matter, there is normally a disturbance in the > > pranas of the individual. Pranas are thought to be > > > > a componenet of the mind stuff. There are many > > people that have had shaktipat only to wind up in a > > > > mental institution. > > > > 3) Especially with Lord Hanuman, the level of power > > that descends has to be borne by a person of great > > purity as if impurities are present the resultant > > reaction can cause irreversible neurological > > damage. > > Its like mixing fire and ice together. > > > > Do not get me wrong, menstruation in many of the > > Kaulika sadhana is considered to be an elixir and full > > of creative power but this has never been a part of > > Lord Hanuman's worship. Each deity has its own > > personal likes and dislikes and what is acceptable to > > one may not be to all. For example as you discussed > > the Devi's worship, it should interest you to know > > that Laskhmi Ma is a stickler for purity while Kali Ma > > may let you get away with the same according to her > > mood. > > > > I am sorry if this presents a problem from an > > intellectual perspective however I think in this > > particular instance that it is better to be safe than > > sorry. > > > > Regards > > > > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > I have never heard that Amma has turned away > > > menstruating women. I > > > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the > > > years I have > > > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > > > > > , "NMadasamy" > > > <nmadasamy@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > , "Mary Ann" > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > I also want to say that according to the > > > Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a > > > book published by > > > > Amma's > > > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human > > > being is female and > > > > male, > > > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess > > > incorrect and damaging > > > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause > > > further damage > > > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would > > > she allow women > > > who > > > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she > > > came here in > > > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being > > > advise not to join > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2005 Hi Nora, Someone at the Ammachi forum asked this very question to Dayamrita Swami and Swamiji said that there is no issue about this and mentstuating women can indeed visit and have darshan with Amma. -yogaman , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...> wrote: > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > I also want to say that according to the Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a book published by > Amma's > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human being is female and > male, > > and holding onto or continuing to profess incorrect and damaging > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause further damage > > individually and culturally. > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would she allow women who > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she came here in > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being advise not to join > in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2005 Hello friends, We are talking about worshipping Hanuman..,NOT SEDUCING HIM! , No dad will stop his child from coming to him, and so do Hanuman sir, and Hanumanji is Bhuddhimatha varishta,He understand the feeling of his devotee, so we need not fear him . After all he is not a misogynist, IF he can adore his mother Anjana why can't he love his daugthers?. One Bihari friend of mine said ladies shoud not touch the idol of Hanuman,if they do they should do some "Vrats". I don't know if such belief exist all over North India,In south I have seen many elderly women reading Hanuman Chalisa. None of the major devotees of Anjaneya,like Sri Ragavenra thirtha,Sri Vysaraya etc have issued any fatwas agnist women worshipping Hanumanji. So the miths aganist women touching Hanuman must be based on superstitions.People will accuse their weaknesses on Gods too. How can any women disturb hanuman's Jithendriyatwa?, Even if it so, there is another problem. Hanuman belong to different species...right, We are human ,he is god.We are "Nara" he is "Vanara"! Do any bramhchari say he does not touch a cow because it belongs to Female gender !!!. And the beauty of Hunuman is He corrects his worshippers whenever they do wrong things,here and now(he is around since he is a chiranjivi),some gods may add our wrongs to our accounts of Karmas, But not Hanumanji,,like a loving father he will thrash us,but never hurt us!! . I had seen one miracle in my regarding this. If there is any mistake on our part he will correct it. So Go ahead and worship him. So if you worship him out of love then no problem, But if it is purely due to technical reasons like lightening the effects of Grahas,then I dont know exactly what rules apply to it. Some People read Hanuman Chalisa 11 times after lighting a lamp with ghee. Some people Do forty days puja, where they worship Hanuman and put a bindi of sandle paste on his tail. It would be nice if expert jyothishis who are in this group suggest appropriate remidies. Dhanyavada, KHK.Prasad. - In , "Mary Ann" <buttercookie61> wrote: > I want to say, also, that I have reread your post below, and I do > understand and appreciate what you say. When put in those terms, it > makes sense, and even comes across as quite tender. > > Deepak Chopra says that if it weren't for our slow senses, we would > perceive a very, very different world. I think "personifying" deities > like Hanuman is a way of "perceiving" some of that world beyond our > senses. > > It's like when, in Contact, Jodi Foster just went through the amazing > experience of traveling in a ship built by following blueprints that > were transmitted to Earth from outer space - and her trip came after > amazing upheaval on Earth, including the murder of a colleague and > destruction of the ship due to religious fundamentalist fears. After > the trip, Jodi finds herself on a beach watching a lone figure > walking toward her. It's her father, who died when she was a child > (in the beginning of the film) because the information/energy is > appearing in a form that she can recognize and welcome. > > I can tell you this much: Hanuman is not the creature that would come > to me in that moment. And that information/energy would not require > that I perceive/receive Hanuman, either. > > > > , "Mary Ann" > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > I think I understand this. It reminds me of Devi Bhakta telling me > > about how the Khadgamala Stotrum is a mathematical formula, > > essentially, and that there is no cause to take issue with its > sword- > > weilding, master of the universe ways. > > > > I don't think that making changes in order to end harmful, biased > > practices takes away any true power that exists in the original > > rituals or practices. After all, it is the energy, the essence, > that > > is what counts, not the form. But then why oh why do so many insist > > on the form? > > > > I think this is why Deepak Chopra appeals to me far more than > rituals > > like the KS. Dr. Chopra talks in more objective terms about > physics; > > that works better for me. It means parting with tradition in a > number > > of ways on a number of levels, but all worthwhile to me. > > > > , Dev Maharaj > <dev_maharaj> > > wrote: > > > Namaskaar > > > > > > Mary Ann, I would like to share a small experience > > > with you. Once I went to a Sahaja Yoga session where I > > > saw a young girl from Germany performing a ritual to > > > remove negative energy from people, she continued > > > doing this for about 1 hour and then I noticed a > > > remarkable change in her complexion and demeanour. I > > > went over and enquired about her condition and she > > > informed me that she suddenly started feeling very > > > ill. Due to her aura I detected that she was in > > > mentruation and asked her to stop doing the ritual, > > > she complied. I used a couple of my crystals and > > > removed the negative energy she had absorbed. After > > > this her complexion returned to normal. She could not > > > believe the amount of energy she had absorbed and > > > apparently was not properly informed by whoever taught > > > her this ritual either. > > > > > > Then I explained to her about the use of mantras and > > > pranic energy and explained that during mentruation it > > > is a time of cleaning and healing for a woman's body. > > > > > > The chakras can operate somewhat differently from > > > normal and to further complicate things there are a > > > whole lot of energy fluctuations in the aura which > > > makes this a vulnerable time for women. > > > > > > To worship a deity like Lord Hanuman during this time > > > is dangerous for a number of reasons > > > 1) If smaller bhutas (elementals) attach themselves to > > > > > > the aura to feed on the energy from the menses, > > > this > > > can have adverse effects in worship > > > > > > 2) When Lord Hanuman manifests or any deity for that > > > matter, there is normally a disturbance in the > > > pranas of the individual. Pranas are thought to be > > > > > > a componenet of the mind stuff. There are many > > > people that have had shaktipat only to wind up in a > > > > > > mental institution. > > > > > > 3) Especially with Lord Hanuman, the level of power > > > that descends has to be borne by a person of great > > > purity as if impurities are present the resultant > > > reaction can cause irreversible neurological > > > damage. > > > Its like mixing fire and ice together. > > > > > > Do not get me wrong, menstruation in many of the > > > Kaulika sadhana is considered to be an elixir and full > > > of creative power but this has never been a part of > > > Lord Hanuman's worship. Each deity has its own > > > personal likes and dislikes and what is acceptable to > > > one may not be to all. For example as you discussed > > > the Devi's worship, it should interest you to know > > > that Laskhmi Ma is a stickler for purity while Kali Ma > > > may let you get away with the same according to her > > > mood. > > > > > > I am sorry if this presents a problem from an > > > intellectual perspective however I think in this > > > particular instance that it is better to be safe than > > > sorry. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > --- Mary Ann <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > > > I have never heard that Amma has turned away > > > > menstruating women. I > > > > have never heard mention of this topic at all in the > > > > years I have > > > > been going to Amma when she tours giving darshan. > > > > > > > > , "NMadasamy" > > > > <nmadasamy@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > , "Mary Ann" > > > > > <buttercookie61> wrote: > > > > > > I also want to say that according to the > > > > Ardhanarishwara/i deity > > > > > > (symbolism) - I have read this recently in a > > > > book published by > > > > > Amma's > > > > > > press about Universal Motherhood) each human > > > > being is female and > > > > > male, > > > > > > and holding onto or continuing to profess > > > > incorrect and damaging > > > > > > beliefs regarding body processes can only cause > > > > further damage > > > > > > individually and culturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is Ammachi's views about menstruations? Would > > > > she allow women > > > > who > > > > > are menstruation to join in her prayers? When she > > > > came here in > > > > > singapore, one of the devotees told me she being > > > > advise not to join > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2005 om tat sat Maharadanatha I like you analogy very witty but somewhat borderline cruel. I would hate to be the driver of the bike. last year I witnessed a hanuman puja for the first time; yes there were devotees all about though in my thoughts and my notions indicated to me it was tantric. Maybe I am blind or was I lucky to witness it by a priest who knew what he was doing An old friend of mine she is a swami we were a couple she sang a beautiful tune whilst playing her harmonium sumari pavan suta parvani ramu apani basa kari rakhe ramu hanumanji hanumanji jaya jaya hanuman Although went our own ways 8 years ago I can still see and hear her play and sing in key to such a beautiful melody sure woman might be cursed with distractions at some time they can multi task allow them make up there own mind. If men have been distracted by the lovely scent of women they need not be in there a sacret abode for what other reason could there be a problem? Men need to be more like women women need the chance to be more like men maithuna merging siva and shakti is not that what the meeting of siva and sakti sharing sacret maithuna is all about that may we owe the open heart to the secret truth within With respects for all men and women. SAMDHI HANUMANJI if he is no more a god than a segreded monkey then monkey he be the sound of a female singing mantra i know you know there is no other way but to be free All the best John Mathieson/Jaganatha on the world down under - "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha <> Friday, September 02, 2005 8:35 PM Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? > Some of the information you provide can result in serious problems. > Tantric ritual procedures include powerful methods, just taking out > some part of them without knowledge is either useless or in the worst > case can cause problems. > > Mixing in only tantric parts like bijas and mantra in devotional > rituals without the knowledge of the how and why is like trying to make > a bycycle drive faster by filling petrol in the pocket of the driver > and igniting it with a lighter. > > > > , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> > wrote: > If you think my guidance unenlightened, > uninformed, unwise or any other thing then please feel > free to disregard this and do as you please ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2005 Yes only somtimes do we listen to the silence, that blissful gap between the sounds that is impregnated by the song that is life. Though time may have passed the eternal present of an enlightened moment is forever with us, and by that grace of life we can tap that power using our memory. btw the driver is fine - nobody was hurt, though i must admit he really was driving faster cause of his fiery backbone the first few seconds:) , "john mathieson" <j.mathieson@o...> wrote: > om tat sat Maharadanatha > I like you analogy very witty but somewhat borderline cruel. I would hate to be the driver of the bike. last year I witnessed a hanuman puja for the first time; yes there were devotees all about though in my thoughts and my notions indicated to me it was tantric. Maybe I am blind or was I lucky to witness it by a priest who knew what he was doing > > An old friend of mine she is a swami we were a couple she sang a beautiful tune whilst playing her harmonium sumari pavan suta parvani ramu apani basa kari rakhe ramu hanumanji hanumanji jaya jaya hanuman > > Although went our own ways 8 years ago I can still see and hear her play and sing in key to such a beautiful melody sure woman might be cursed with distractions at some time they can multi task allow them make up there own mind. > > If men have been distracted by the lovely scent of women they need not be in there a sacret abode for what other reason could there be a problem? > > Men need to be more like women women need the chance to be more like men maithuna merging siva and shakti is not that what the meeting of siva and sakti sharing sacret maithuna is all about that may we owe the open heart to the secret truth within > > With respects for all men and women. > SAMDHI HANUMANJI > > if he is no more a god than a segreded monkey then monkey he be > the sound of a female singing mantra i know you know there is no other way but to be free > > All the best > John Mathieson/Jaganatha > on the world down under > > - > "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha> > <> > Friday, September 02, 2005 8:35 PM > Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? > > > > Some of the information you provide can result in serious problems. > > Tantric ritual procedures include powerful methods, just taking out > > some part of them without knowledge is either useless or in the worst > > case can cause problems. > > > > Mixing in only tantric parts like bijas and mantra in devotional > > rituals without the knowledge of the how and why is like trying to make > > a bycycle drive faster by filling petrol in the pocket of the driver > > and igniting it with a lighter. > > > > > > > > , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj> > > wrote: > > If you think my guidance unenlightened, > > uninformed, unwise or any other thing then please feel > > free to disregard this and do as you please ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2005 Once I experienced the warmth in the back my self myself I was a little concerned however only lasted a day I discontinued that sadhana though there was quite a time that the heart would glow and it forever left its tone work thought unconscious sleep is all I have to dilute it though it never stops. I do not complain I want it to remain it supplies silence and guidance at rest - "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha <> Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:38 PM Re: can ladies worship hanuman ? > Yes only somtimes do we listen to the silence, that blissful gap > between the sounds that is impregnated by the song that is life. > Though time may have passed the eternal present of an enlightened > moment is forever with us, and by that grace of life we can tap that > power using our memory.btw the driver is fine - nobody was hurt, though i must admit he really was driving faster cause of his fiery backbone the first few seconds:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
