Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kalipadma writes: > Worshippers of Vishnu (usually as Krishna or Rama avatars) are almost > always lacto-vegetarians. Vishnu worshippers comprise about 45% of all > Hindus. > > Worshippers of Shiva are predominently vegetarians, but will eat lamb, > goat, fish, or chicken on holidays and for special occasions. Shiva > worshippers comprise about 30% of all Hindus. > > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of Goddesses, MOST people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male Gods. Vishnu and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a male God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male Face of Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with oppression in that culture. Blessings, Cathie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kalipadma writes: > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > 15 % is NOT THAT MUCH. For all I know there may be 15% of Americans who worship a Goddess -- maybe more for all I know... does Anybody Know the answer to this? How many Americans are Goddess worshipers? Blessings, Cathie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kalipadma writes: > Worshippers of Vishnu (usually as Krishna or Rama avatars) are almost > always lacto-vegetarians. Vishnu worshippers comprise about 45% of all > Hindus. > > Worshippers of Shiva are predominently vegetarians, but will eat lamb, > goat, fish, or chicken on holidays and for special occasions. Shiva > worshippers comprise about 30% of all Hindus. > > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > What you say below, is like saying Catholic Churches have a statue of Mary. She is the Queen of Heaven. But it is Father God who is worshipped. She is only there as a sideshow. Otherwise it would not say 45% worshp Vishnu it would say 45% and make a separate category for Shakti worshipers In a message dated 10/6/2004 1:31:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, malyavan_tibet writes: > In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated > acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas > have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are > inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other location. > > And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate > taking one diety to the another or parading them together. > > Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > > >So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > Goddesses, MOST > >people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > Gods. Vishnu > >and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a > male > >God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male > Face of > >Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with > oppression in > >that culture. > > > >Blessings, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:08:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time, malyavan_tibet writes: > I dont know much abt christian rituals, but in temples shiva is > supposed to have transcendent qualities and shakti immanent. I > remember once due to my ignorance going to a shiva temple and asked > for "Shatru samhara pooja". (Pooja done to eliminate enemies). I got > the reply you have to go to the opposite shakti temple for this. Why do they bother having an opposite shakti temple for Her if only 15% worship her? How can only 15% worship her if she is the corresponding Goddess to Shiva? Please explain... (And excuse me to anybody who wants to make this question irrelevant by saying it is an "ignorant question" -- excuse me, but I'm here to learn something. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:33:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kochu1tz writes: > This is not an irrelevant question but very relevant to the shalllow posts > giving nonsense as facts. Excuse me, but I walk into a new group and everyone is talking. I cannot tell from the e-mail addresses which one of you is the "Wise One" who is entitled to insult everyone else as spouting nonsense, and which are the ones spouting nonsense. I believe it was KaliPadma who cited the stats about percentages of Hindus worshipping various deities. From her name she sounds Hindu to me. Maybe you guys who are the "Wise Ones" should put a header at the front of yoru e-mail saying "I am one of the Wise Ones, therefor what I say is true and is not nonsense" That way there will not be so much confusion... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Thanks, You must be one of the Wise Ones, since you found a way to clarify this matter without insulting me. Jai Ma! Cathie In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:25:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ammasmon writes: > Don't go by those figures literaly; Kalipadma offered them more as a > rule of thumb than exact figures. > > Also, do realize that 45% worship Vishnu does not mean they shun the > other gods. Most of the Hindu devout worship all gods, but with a > preference for one god, as that god appeals to them the most. so all > power to them. > > My parents are Vishnu worshippers, but they are equally reverential > of Devi too, and for that matter, Shiva too. > > There may be a lot of ground for women to cover in India from a > Western viewpoint, but I dont think this is the reason > for "oppression". The reason for that can be attributed to a set of > complex sociological, historical, and cross-culture-influential > reasons. > > Jai Ma! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:54:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kochu1tz writes: > I never quoted facts and figures which are, to say the least utterly wrong. > The basic fact is that there are no hard and fast vasishnava-shaiva shakta > division in the line of catholi-protestant; sunni-shia divisions in Hinduism. > thats what i was trying to stress. > And quoting mantras that are quite wrong is the limit. > I kept quiet as long as possible and then I posted. My apologies for any misunderstanding, Kochu. I realize you did not quote the statistics. I have also not quoted any mantras. As for me, I'm going to give up trying to participate for the time being, and go about the simple business of listening quietly in the shadows. Far be it from me to suggest you, who are one of the listowners even, should keep quiet. The point I am trying to stress, is India and Hindu are obviously vastly complex topics, and there may be those of us here who may understand something different from the way it was meant, due to our different cultures. By and large nobody means to offend anybody by it -- just misunderstandings and certainly it helps if somebody is not understanding something right, when another person speaks up and sets it straight. Of course, we are ignorant of one another. One more reason to keep on learning more. Then we won't be ignorant any longer. Peace, Cathie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Caste has less to do with meat-eating than chosen divinity does. Worshippers of Vishnu (usually as Krishna or Rama avatars) are almost always lacto-vegetarians. Vishnu worshippers comprise about 45% of all Hindus. Worshippers of Shiva are predominently vegetarians, but will eat lamb, goat, fish, or chicken on holidays and for special occasions. Shiva worshippers comprise about 30% of all Hindus. Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. The remaining 10% includes other types of Hindus. We are not including Hindus who have become non-observant (India is touted as a very spiritual country, but I don't know how many Atheists and Agnostics are in the population). India also has a large non-Hindu population -- at least one of every eight Indians is Moslem (big meat-eaters!). Jains are vegetarian, Sikhs I believe are not, Tibetan Buddhists tend to eat meat, as do Indian Christians. I think meat-eating is important for people in temperate to cold climates. The animal fats help the body to keep warm. Most people in tropical climates become attracted to vegetarianism, because the diet is lighter and easier to digest, and a wider variety of indigenous fruits and vegetables is available. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT) sankara menon <kochu1tz writes: > > I am sorry Ellen; buy many is how many? a 100 in one Billion? a > 1000? I am an Indian and even while in India my family - very devout > - has been meat eaters. I know thousands - brahmins; Kshatriyas; > vaishyas and Shudras who eat meat. > IMHO your statements are like it's like "listening to an art critic > rant about how awful this Matisse watercolor is, rather he's > pointing at a Picasso oil". > > Ellen McGowen <ellen.mcgowen wrote: > > I worked with many Indians in the software industry in California > and (remotely, as a consultant) in Bangalore. Perhaps a hundred. > I only knew two who ate meat. > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other location. And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate taking one diety to the another or parading them together. Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of Goddesses, MOST > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male Gods. Vishnu > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a male > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male Face of > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with oppression in > that culture. > > Blessings, > Cathie > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Thank you for the statistics. So all Vaishnavas are veggies (I know quite a few who are not); All shaivas are veggies (I know quite a few who are not)................ its these assertions without knowing reality that make me sad. SophiasHeaven wrote:In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kalipadma writes: > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > 15 % is NOT THAT MUCH. For all I know there may be 15% of Americans who worship a Goddess -- maybe more for all I know... does Anybody Know the answer to this? How many Americans are Goddess worshipers? Blessings, Cathie / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 There are very few tantrically consecrated temples outside Kerala. malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other location. And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate taking one diety to the another or parading them together. Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of Goddesses, MOST > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male Gods. Vishnu > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a male > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male Face of > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with oppression in > that culture. > > Blessings, > Cathie > > > / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Temples built during the sangham period in tamil-nad are agamic. Arunachal, jambukeshwar, chidambaram, srirangam, and they are also probably the biggest in the world. - - In , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > There are very few tantrically consecrated temples outside Kerala. > > malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated > acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas > have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are > inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other location. > > And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate > taking one diety to the another or parading them together. > > Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > Goddesses, MOST > > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > Gods. Vishnu > > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a > male > > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male > Face of > > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with > oppression in > > that culture. > > > > Blessings, > > Cathie > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 I dont know abt srirangam, i think it is agamic too. , "malyavan_tibet" <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > Temples built during the sangham period in tamil-nad are agamic. > Arunachal, jambukeshwar, chidambaram, srirangam, and they are also > probably the biggest in the world. > > > - > - In , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > There are very few tantrically consecrated temples outside Kerala. > > > > malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet> wrote: > > In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated > > acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas > > have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are > > inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other > location. > > > > And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate > > taking one diety to the another or parading them together. > > > > Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > > > > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > > Goddesses, MOST > > > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > > Gods. Vishnu > > > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a > > male > > > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male > > Face of > > > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with > > oppression in > > > that culture. > > > > > > Blessings, > > > Cathie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > kalipadma@j... writes: > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of Goddesses, MOST > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male Gods. Vishnu > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a male > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male Face of > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with oppression in > that culture. > > Blessings, > Cathie Don't go by those figures literaly; Kalipadma offered them more as a rule of thumb than exact figures. Also, do realize that 45% worship Vishnu does not mean they shun the other gods. Most of the Hindu devout worship all gods, but with a preference for one god, as that god appeals to them the most. so all power to them. My parents are Vishnu worshippers, but they are equally reverential of Devi too, and for that matter, Shiva too. There may be a lot of ground for women to cover in India from a Western viewpoint, but I dont think this is the reason for "oppression". The reason for that can be attributed to a set of complex sociological, historical, and cross-culture-influential reasons. Jai Ma! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 I dont know much abt christian rituals, but in temples shiva is supposed to have transcendent qualities and shakti immanent. I remember once due to my ignorance going to a shiva temple and asked for "Shatru samhara pooja". (Pooja done to eliminate enemies). I got the reply you have to go to the opposite shakti temple for this. > What you say below, is like saying Catholic Churches have a statue of Mary. > She is the Queen of Heaven. But it is Father God who is worshipped. She is > only there as a sideshow. Otherwise it would not say 45% worshp Vishnu it > would say 45% and make a separate category for Shakti worshipers > > In a message dated 10/6/2004 1:31:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > malyavan_tibet writes: > > > In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated > > acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas > > have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are > > inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other location. > > > > And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate > > taking one diety to the another or parading them together. > > > > Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > > > > >So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > > Goddesses, MOST > > >people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > > Gods. Vishnu > > >and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a > > male > > >God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male > > Face of > > >Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with > > oppression in > > >that culture. > > > > > >Blessings, > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 This is not an irrelevant question but very relevant to the shalllow posts giving nonsense as facts. SophiasHeaven wrote:In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:08:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time, malyavan_tibet writes: > I dont know much abt christian rituals, but in temples shiva is > supposed to have transcendent qualities and shakti immanent. I > remember once due to my ignorance going to a shiva temple and asked > for "Shatru samhara pooja". (Pooja done to eliminate enemies). I got > the reply you have to go to the opposite shakti temple for this. Why do they bother having an opposite shakti temple for Her if only 15% worship her? How can only 15% worship her if she is the corresponding Goddess to Shiva? Please explain... (And excuse me to anybody who wants to make this question irrelevant by saying it is an "ignorant question" -- excuse me, but I'm here to learn something. ) / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Yes, why would someone built devi temples inside or outside the deva temples if no one is worshipping them. , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:33:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > kochu1tz writes: > > > This is not an irrelevant question but very relevant to the shalllow posts > > giving nonsense as facts. > > Excuse me, but I walk into a new group and everyone is talking. I cannot > tell from the e-mail addresses which one of you is the "Wise One" who is entitled > to insult everyone else as spouting nonsense, and which are the ones spouting > nonsense. I believe it was KaliPadma who cited the stats about percentages > of Hindus worshipping various deities. From her name she sounds Hindu to me. > Maybe you guys who are the "Wise Ones" should put a header at the front of > yoru e-mail saying "I am one of the Wise Ones, therefor what I say is true and is > not nonsense" > That way there will not be so much confusion... > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 I never quoted facts and figures which are, to say the least utterly wrong. The basic fact is that there are no hard and fast vasishnava-shaiva shakta division in the line of catholi-protestant; sunni-shia divisions in Hinduism. thats what i was trying to stress. And quoting mantras that are quite wrong is the limit. I kept quiet as long as possible and then I posted. SophiasHeaven wrote: In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:33:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kochu1tz writes: > This is not an irrelevant question but very relevant to the shalllow posts > giving nonsense as facts. Excuse me, but I walk into a new group and everyone is talking. I cannot tell from the e-mail addresses which one of you is the "Wise One" who is entitled to insult everyone else as spouting nonsense, and which are the ones spouting nonsense. I believe it was KaliPadma who cited the stats about percentages of Hindus worshipping various deities. From her name she sounds Hindu to me. Maybe you guys who are the "Wise Ones" should put a header at the front of yoru e-mail saying "I am one of the Wise Ones, therefor what I say is true and is not nonsense" That way there will not be so much confusion... / vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 "India, Land of Goddesses." That line made me smile ruefully. Bear in mind that Vaishnavas and Shaivas don't IGNORE the Devi -- but she is seen as the source of the male god's energy, and only worshipped in conjunction with him. I remember a story where Vishnu warns Lakshmi not to answer a devotee's prayers, because the mortal will switch allegiances to Shakti and make Vishnu jealous. But Shaktas are a long-standing and influential influence on Sanatana Dharma -- they just aren't anywhere near the majority. I am fascinated by the (legendary?) tradition of Ganapatyas, who see elephant-faced Ganesha as the Supreme Personality -- because Ganesha always deputises for his mother, Parvati, a peaceful aspect of Kali-Durga. Perhaps 95% of all Hindus worship and love Ganesha -- but he is not usually seen as the Prime Mover. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:20:24 EDT SophiasHeaven writes: > > In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > kalipadma writes: > > > Worshippers of Vishnu (usually as Krishna or Rama avatars) are > almost > > always lacto-vegetarians. Vishnu worshippers comprise about 45% > of all > > Hindus. > > > > Worshippers of Shiva are predominently vegetarians, but will eat > lamb, > > goat, fish, or chicken on holidays and for special occasions. > Shiva > > worshippers comprise about 30% of all Hindus. > > > > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do > eat meat, > > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga > at the > > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > > > > > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > Goddesses, MOST > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > Gods. Vishnu > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship a > male > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the Male > Face of > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling with > oppression in > that culture. > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Those vaishnavas who eat meat are not practicing the Vaishnava traditions as they were taught. I thought all Shaivas ate meat, but I was assured by Shivaya Subramuniyaswami that Shaivas normally don't. (And more importantly, shouldn't!) Dietary restrictions are probably the most frequently broken of all the rules laid down by religions. I was brought up Jewish, but no one in my family kept the laws of Kosher diet. I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm exceedingly fond of pork, especially in Chinese cuisine. Nora said that the Hindu Balinese even eat beef! So much for honoring Bhumi Mata. Americans do eat too much meat. I've cut down a lot since I started a Hindu practice. But I can't eliminate it entirely. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:42:29 -0700 (PDT) sankara menon <kochu1tz writes: > > Thank you for the statistics. So all Vaishnavas are veggies (I know > quite a few who are not); All shaivas are veggies (I know quite a > few who are not)................ its these assertions without > knowing reality that make me sad. > > SophiasHeaven wrote:In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM > Mountain Daylight Time, > kalipadma writes: > > > Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do > eat meat, > > especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga > at the > > temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > > > > 15 % is NOT THAT MUCH. For all I know there may be 15% of Americans > who > worship a Goddess -- maybe more for all I know... does Anybody Know > the answer to > this? How many Americans are Goddess worshipers? > > Blessings, > Cathie > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 I know if you use the word "Tantra" in the Hindu Temple in Flushing, most of the regular worshippers will force a smile, bow politely, and run away from you. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:44:01 -0700 (PDT) sankara menon <kochu1tz writes: > > There are very few tantrically consecrated temples outside Kerala. > > malyavan_tibet <malyavan_tibet wrote: > In india, ALL the shiva or vishnu temples which are consecrated > acording to the tantric science and built during the reign of Rajas > have a corresponding feminine diety. In some temples the diety are > inside the same wall, and in some places outside in some other > location. > > And most of the festivals, when the temples are separate celebrate > taking one diety to the another or parading them together. > > Please enough of this ignorant statements. > > > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > Goddesses, MOST > > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > Gods. Vishnu > > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship > a > male > > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the > Male > Face of > > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling > with > oppression in > > that culture. > > > > Blessings, > > Cathie > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Only 15% of the American population is of African decent. That means we can ignore them, and their contribution to the culture is negligible, right? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:17:14 EDT SophiasHeaven writes: > > In a message dated 10/6/2004 2:08:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > malyavan_tibet writes: > > > I dont know much abt christian rituals, but in temples shiva is > > supposed to have transcendent qualities and shakti immanent. I > > remember once due to my ignorance going to a shiva temple and > asked > > for "Shatru samhara pooja". (Pooja done to eliminate enemies). I > got > > the reply you have to go to the opposite shakti temple for this. > > Why do they bother having an opposite shakti temple for Her if only > 15% > worship her? How can only 15% worship her if she is the > corresponding Goddess to > Shiva? Please explain... > > (And excuse me to anybody who wants to make this question irrelevant > by > saying it is an "ignorant question" -- excuse me, but I'm here to > learn something. > ) > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 6, 2004 Thank you, Manoj. I was having difficulty explaining to Cathy the difference between having a Chosen Deity, and being a Monotheist. (I know many Hindus consider themselves Monotheists -- but the One God wears a lot of different masks!) -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:01:56 -0000 "manoj_menon" <ammasmon writes: > > > > , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 10/6/2004 11:41:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > > kalipadma@j... writes: > > > > So what you're saying, is basically, even in India, land of > Goddesses, MOST > > people do not actually worship the Goddess, they worship the male > Gods. Vishnu > > and Shiva as male Gods account for 75% of worhipers -- 75% worship > > a male > > God, which seems to indicate a preference even in India for the > Male Face of > > Dvinity. So maybe this explains why women are still struggling > with oppression in > > that culture. > > > > Blessings, > > Cathie > > Don't go by those figures literaly; Kalipadma offered them more as a > > rule of thumb than exact figures. > > Also, do realize that 45% worship Vishnu does not mean they shun the > > other gods. Most of the Hindu devout worship all gods, but with a > preference for one god, as that god appeals to them the most. so all > > power to them. > > My parents are Vishnu worshippers, but they are equally reverential > of Devi too, and for that matter, Shiva too. > > There may be a lot of ground for women to cover in India from a > Western viewpoint, but I dont think this is the reason > for "oppression". The reason for that can be attributed to a set of > > complex sociological, historical, and cross-culture-influential > reasons. > > Jai Ma! > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 7, 2004 The vegetarianism controversy is quite interesting indeed. I thank you, Devi Bhakta, and everyone else who opened my eyes to the many views of vegetarianism in Hinduism. On top of your responses and the research I have done...and have been doing, I may be able to conjure a decent article in the future concerning the misconception that "all Hindus refuse to eat beef." I have seen advanced and amateur sources alike that rub the idea everywhere. It is interesting. I have been focusing much of my research time on Hinduism, mainly Shaktism and Kali, and as of recent days, I have not been craving much meat. I have not shifted to a vegetarian mindset, but I do not eat meat as much as I used to (so far, I only ate a tiny piece of white meat for this whole entire week). I am not saying that my studies have been the caused of this shift in cravings either, it is just very coincidental...an interesting one at that. Just my silly rambles... Blessings, >kalipadma > > > Indians and Meat-eating >Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:10:41 -0400 > > >Caste has less to do with meat-eating than chosen divinity does. > >Worshippers of Vishnu (usually as Krishna or Rama avatars) are almost >always lacto-vegetarians. Vishnu worshippers comprise about 45% of all >Hindus. > >Worshippers of Shiva are predominently vegetarians, but will eat lamb, >goat, fish, or chicken on holidays and for special occasions. Shiva >worshippers comprise about 30% of all Hindus. > >Shaktas eat much less meat than Westerners tend to, but they do eat meat, >especially if a goat or chicken has been offered to Kali or Durga at the >temple. Shakti worshippers comprise about 15% of all Hindus. > >The remaining 10% includes other types of Hindus. We are not including >Hindus who have become non-observant (India is touted as a very spiritual >country, but I don't know how many Atheists and Agnostics are in the >population). India also has a large non-Hindu population -- at least one >of every eight Indians is Moslem (big meat-eaters!). Jains are >vegetarian, Sikhs I believe are not, Tibetan Buddhists tend to eat meat, >as do Indian Christians. > >I think meat-eating is important for people in temperate to cold >climates. The animal fats help the body to keep warm. Most people in >tropical climates become attracted to vegetarianism, because the diet is >lighter and easier to digest, and a wider variety of indigenous fruits >and vegetables is available. > >-- Len/ Kalipadma > > >On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT) sankara menon ><kochu1tz writes: > > > > I am sorry Ellen; buy many is how many? a 100 in one Billion? a > > 1000? I am an Indian and even while in India my family - very devout > > - has been meat eaters. I know thousands - brahmins; Kshatriyas; > > vaishyas and Shudras who eat meat. > > IMHO your statements are like it's like "listening to an art critic > > rant about how awful this Matisse watercolor is, rather he's > > pointing at a Picasso oil". > > > > Ellen McGowen <ellen.mcgowen wrote: > > > > I worked with many Indians in the software industry in California > > and (remotely, as a consultant) in Bangalore. Perhaps a hundred. > > I only knew two who ate meat. > > > > >______________ >Get your name as your email address. >Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more >Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 7, 2004 It is wrong to categorise Vaishnavas and Shaivas as Vegitarians and Non-Vegitarians. Basically both are ardent vegitarians. It is the family tradition from Non-Brahmins who include non-vegitarian as their food. They also for relgious purposes avoid onion and non-vegitarian. Iyer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
