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What are the 5-M's ???

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Hi Sophia ...

 

The term "5M's" usually refers to the panchamAkara, i.e., the five

(Pancha) "prohibited substances" employed in some aspects of Vira-

sadhana.

 

There are actually three versions of the 5 M's, corrresponding to the

three primary influences driving the movement of energy and matter

(and therefore human nature). But the Vira version gets most of the

attention, because that's where the much-maligned, widely

misunderstood idea of so-called "Tantric sex" comes from.

 

Nontheless, here are all three levels, in simplified summary:

 

VIRA Panchamakara (for those of Heroic-rajaistic/"active"

temperament):

 

1. MADHYA - Wine

2. MAAMSA - Meat

3. MATSYA - Fish

4. MUDRAA - Parched Grain

5. MAITHUNA - Sexual Intercourse (under strictly controlled ritual

conditions)

 

DIVYA Panchatattva (for the Sattvika; one of a spiritual

temperament) - SYMBOLIC 5-M's

 

1. Wine = intoxicating knowledge

2. Meat = consigning all acts to the Divine

3. Matsya = empathizing with all beings

4. Mudra = relinquishing all association with evil

5. Maithuna = mental union of Shakti and Shiva in the Sahasrara

 

PASHU Panchamakara (for one of tamasic, or tending toward materially-

focused temperament) - SUBSTITUTE 5-M's

 

1. Wine = milk (Brahmins); ghee/clarified butter (Kshatriya); honey

(Vaisha); rice liquour (Shudra)

2. Meat = salt, ginger, sesame, etc

3. Matsya = eggplant, red radish, etc

4. Parched Grain = parched grain

5. Maithuna = kachapa mudra; flower offering; sexual union with one's

spouse (not necessarily under controlled ritual conditions)

 

**********

 

Those in the know will surely elaborate and correct the above as they

see fit. But hope that gives you a start.

 

DB

 

, SophiasHeaven@a... wrote:

> what are the 5-M's ???

>

> Peace,

> C

> In a message dated 10/2/2004 5:27:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> devi_bhakta writes:

>

> > It's possible to go "all the way" in Tantra

> > without ever touching the "5-M's." Some do, some don't.

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I would assume the divyas are on a Pasu diet too????

 

-

> Nontheless, here are all three levels, in simplified summary:

>

> VIRA Panchamakara (for those of Heroic-rajaistic/"active"

> temperament):

>

> 1. MADHYA - Wine

> 2. MAAMSA - Meat

> 3. MATSYA - Fish

> 4. MUDRAA - Parched Grain

> 5. MAITHUNA - Sexual Intercourse (under strictly controlled ritual

> conditions)

>

> DIVYA Panchatattva (for the Sattvika; one of a spiritual

> temperament) - SYMBOLIC 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = intoxicating knowledge

> 2. Meat = consigning all acts to the Divine

> 3. Matsya = empathizing with all beings

> 4. Mudra = relinquishing all association with evil

> 5. Maithuna = mental union of Shakti and Shiva in the Sahasrara

>

> PASHU Panchamakara (for one of tamasic, or tending toward materially-

> focused temperament) - SUBSTITUTE 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = milk (Brahmins); ghee/clarified butter (Kshatriya); honey

> (Vaisha); rice liquour (Shudra)

> 2. Meat = salt, ginger, sesame, etc

> 3. Matsya = eggplant, red radish, etc

> 4. Parched Grain = parched grain

> 5. Maithuna = kachapa mudra; flower offering; sexual union with one's

> spouse (not necessarily under controlled ritual conditions)

>

> **********

>

> Those in the know will surely elaborate and correct the above as they

> see fit. But hope that gives you a start.

>

> DB

>

> , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote:

>

> > what are the 5-M's ???

> >

> > Peace,

> > C

> > In a message dated 10/2/2004 5:27:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> > devi_bhakta writes:

> >

> > > It's possible to go "all the way" in Tantra

> > > without ever touching the "5-M's." Some do, some don't.

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Thanks Devi,

 

Blessings,

Cathie

In a message dated 10/3/2004 8:59:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

devi_bhakta writes:

> Hi Sophia ...

>

> The term "5M's" usually refers to the panchamAkara, i.e., the five

> (Pancha) "prohibited substances" employed in some aspects of Vira-

> sadhana.

>

> There are actually three versions of the 5 M's, corrresponding to the

> three primary influences driving the movement of energy and matter

> (and therefore human nature). But the Vira version gets most of the

> attention, because that's where the much-maligned, widely

> misunderstood idea of so-called "Tantric sex" comes from.

>

> Nontheless, here are all three levels, in simplified summary:

>

> VIRA Panchamakara (for those of Heroic-rajaistic/"active"

> temperament):

>

> 1. MADHYA - Wine

> 2. MAAMSA - Meat

> 3. MATSYA - Fish

> 4. MUDRAA - Parched Grain

> 5. MAITHUNA - Sexual Intercourse (under strictly controlled ritual

> conditions)

>

> DIVYA Panchatattva (for the Sattvika; one of a spiritual

> temperament) - SYMBOLIC 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = intoxicating knowledge

> 2. Meat = consigning all acts to the Divine

> 3. Matsya = empathizing with all beings

> 4. Mudra = relinquishing all association with evil

> 5. Maithuna = mental union of Shakti and Shiva in the Sahasrara

>

> PASHU Panchamakara (for one of tamasic, or tending toward materially-

> focused temperament) - SUBSTITUTE 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = milk (Brahmins); ghee/clarified butter (Kshatriya); honey

> (Vaisha); rice liquour (Shudra)

> 2. Meat = salt, ginger, sesame, etc

> 3. Matsya = eggplant, red radish, etc

> 4. Parched Grain = parched grain

> 5. Maithuna = kachapa mudra; flower offering; sexual union with one's

> spouse (not necessarily under controlled ritual conditions)

>

> **********

>

> Those in the know will surely elaborate and correct the above as they

> see fit. But hope that gives you a start.

>

> DB

>

> , SophiasHeaven@a... wrote:

>

> >what are the 5-M's ???

> >

> >Peace,

> >C

> >In a message dated 10/2/2004 5:27:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> >devi_bhakta writes:

> >

> >>It's possible to go "all the way" in Tantra

> >>without ever touching the "5-M's." Some do, some don't.

 

 

 

 

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Dear MT:

 

The panchamakara have nothing to do with dietary habits. They refer to

specific, limited ritual usage.

 

DB

 

 

, "malyavan_tibet"

<malyavan_tibet> wrote:

>

> I would assume the divyas are on a Pasu diet too????

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My question was not specific to the ritual. I was asking whether

divyas and pasus have the same dietary habits. Most divyas i know or

think to be divyas are strict vegetarians.

 

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Dear MT:

>

> The panchamakara have nothing to do with dietary habits. They refer to

> specific, limited ritual usage.

>

> DB

>

>

> , "malyavan_tibet"

> <malyavan_tibet> wrote:

> >

> > I would assume the divyas are on a Pasu diet too????

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Hi MT:

 

Okay, I understand now. My post *was* specific to ritual, so that's

where my head was at.

 

Anyway, what the hell do I know, but it sure makes *sense* that most

Divya-path practitioners of the 5-M's would be vegetarian. It was once

confided to me that the late Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami -- a very

learned, extremely conservative Shaiva monk; who pointedly and

repeatedly warned his followers away from Tantra -- was actually a

Divya. And I'd bet the family farm that no non-vegetarian foodstuffs

ever passed his lips.

 

DB

 

<malyavan_tibet> wrote:

 

My question was not specific to the ritual. I was asking whether

divyas and pasus have the same dietary habits. Most divyas i know or

think to be divyas are strict vegetarians.

 

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

 

The panchamakara have nothing to do with dietary habits. They refer to

specific, limited ritual usage.

 

<malyavan_tibet> wrote:

 

I would assume the divyas are on a Pasu diet too????

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Lets just observe two animals. The Cow (which is also called Pasu) and

the Lion. What you observe in them?.

 

Who is a Divya?.

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> Hi MT:

>

> Okay, I understand now. My post *was* specific to ritual, so that's

> where my head was at.

>

> Anyway, what the hell do I know, but it sure makes *sense* that most

> Divya-path practitioners of the 5-M's would be vegetarian. It was once

> confided to me that the late Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami -- a very

> learned, extremely conservative Shaiva monk; who pointedly and

> repeatedly warned his followers away from Tantra -- was actually a

> Divya. And I'd bet the family farm that no non-vegetarian foodstuffs

> ever passed his lips.

>

> DB

>

> <malyavan_tibet> wrote:

>

> My question was not specific to the ritual. I was asking whether

> divyas and pasus have the same dietary habits. Most divyas i know or

> think to be divyas are strict vegetarians.

>

> <devi_bhakta> wrote:

>

> The panchamakara have nothing to do with dietary habits. They refer to

> specific, limited ritual usage.

>

> <malyavan_tibet> wrote:

>

> I would assume the divyas are on a Pasu diet too????

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I see what you're getting -- that maybe eating meat is a mAkara for a

vegetarian, and *not* eating meat is a mAkara for a non-vegetarian. Or

whatever.

 

It's a vaguely interesting idea intellectually, I suppose. But it

really doesn't have much practical import. These sorts of

classifications/ social behaviours simply aren't so cut-and-dry.

 

DB

 

, "malyavan_tibet"

<malyavan_tibet> wrote:

>

> Lets just observe two animals. The Cow (which is also called Pasu) and

> the Lion. What you observe in them?.

>

> Who is a Divya?.

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No this was not i meant, but this point of view is interesting.

I was basically asking could there be Lion divyas?.

-

-- In , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta>

wrote:

>

> I see what you're getting -- that maybe eating meat is a mAkara for a

> vegetarian, and *not* eating meat is a mAkara for a non-vegetarian. Or

> whatever.

>

> It's a vaguely interesting idea intellectually, I suppose. But it

> really doesn't have much practical import. These sorts of

> classifications/ social behaviours simply aren't so cut-and-dry.

>

> DB

>

> , "malyavan_tibet"

> <malyavan_tibet> wrote:

> >

> > Lets just observe two animals. The Cow (which is also called Pasu) and

> > the Lion. What you observe in them?.

> >

> > Who is a Divya?.

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Or let me put it this way. My food habits are making me into a cow,

peaceful etc. But i want to be a peaceful lion. What is the solution?.

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, "malyavan_tibet"

<malyavan_tibet> wrote:

>

> Lets just observe two animals. The Cow (which is also called Pasu)

and

> the Lion. What you observe in them?.

>

> Who is a Divya?.

>

 

 

Clearly the cow is the divya - the cow gives milk to its owner

throughout its life (not to mention the highly medicinal and healing

properties of cow products such as Panchagavya); and when it dies or

on the verge of dying, it provides money to its owner by way of being

sold to the butcher (seriously, many conservative people really do

this). Now what other animal serves man so unconditionally.

 

Divya/pasu is identified by consciousness; external dietary habits

may or may not have anything to do with it. Pasu may also refer to

all animals (as the in Pasupati, a name of Lord Siva) and also to all

unrealized souls (as in Shaiva Siddhanta).

 

-yogaman

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> Okay, I understand now. My post *was* specific to ritual, so that's

> where my head was at.

>

> Anyway, what the hell do I know, but it sure makes *sense* that most

> Divya-path practitioners of the 5-M's would be vegetarian. It was

once

> confided to me that the late Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami -- a

very

> learned, extremely conservative Shaiva monk; who pointedly and

> repeatedly warned his followers away from Tantra -- was actually a

> Divya. And I'd bet the family farm that no non-vegetarian foodstuffs

> ever passed his lips.

>

 

I had the enormous good fortune to study with Gurudeva for several

years. Gurudeva was a great Siddha with great powers, though this was

generally never advertised except to close sisyas. He was an adept in

the all the esoteric practices described in code words in the

Tirumantiram (which by the way includes sexual practices as well).

Much of this knowledge is passed onto initiated members of the Shaiva

Siddhanta church and to nonone else. But Gurudeva has hinted at

several of these in his various works; one of this is to have lustful

base thoughts before entering a temple, supposedly this arouses the

Kundalini fire and then to practice deep meditation inside the temple

(without any base thoughts:-)); though i think this practice may be

for householder than for monks.

 

The Tirumantiram has also two tantras devoted to the Divine Mother;

this is also the earliest work where the Panchadasakshari is

described encoded; it also describes various chakras such as Bhairavi

etc.(Ammachi has also revealed some practices from the Tirumantiram,

eg-OM-MAA meditation)

 

yes you are right, he was a strict vegetarian. May I know who told

you he was a Divya??

 

-yogaman

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Interesting. In the Wiccan tradition I was trained with, the

participants also share five substances.

 

asperging with salted water (fish?)

smudging with incense smoke (meat?)

eating sacred cakes (grain?)

drinking blessed beverage (wine?)

symbolically plunging blade into winecup (sexual union?)

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

 

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:58:12 -0000 "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta

writes:

>

>

> Hi Sophia ...

>

> The term "5M's" usually refers to the panchamAkara, i.e., the five

> (Pancha) "prohibited substances" employed in some aspects of Vira-

> sadhana.

>

<snip>

> VIRA Panchamakara (for those of Heroic-rajaistic/"active"

> temperament):

>

> 1. MADHYA - Wine

> 2. MAAMSA - Meat

> 3. MATSYA - Fish

> 4. MUDRAA - Parched Grain

> 5. MAITHUNA - Sexual Intercourse (under strictly controlled ritual

> conditions)

>

> DIVYA Panchatattva (for the Sattvika; one of a spiritual

> temperament) - SYMBOLIC 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = intoxicating knowledge

> 2. Meat = consigning all acts to the Divine

> 3. Matsya = empathizing with all beings

> 4. Mudra = relinquishing all association with evil

> 5. Maithuna = mental union of Shakti and Shiva in the Sahasrara

>

> PASHU Panchamakara (for one of tamasic, or tending toward

> materially-

> focused temperament) - SUBSTITUTE 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = milk (Brahmins); ghee/clarified butter (Kshatriya); honey

> (Vaisha); rice liquour (Shudra)

> 2. Meat = salt, ginger, sesame, etc

> 3. Matsya = eggplant, red radish, etc

> 4. Parched Grain = parched grain

> 5. Maithuna = kachapa mudra; flower offering; sexual union with

> one's

> spouse (not necessarily under controlled ritual conditions)

>

 

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yes looks like that

 

kalipadma wrote:

Interesting. In the Wiccan tradition I was trained with, the

participants also share five substances.

 

asperging with salted water (fish?)

smudging with incense smoke (meat?)

eating sacred cakes (grain?)

drinking blessed beverage (wine?)

symbolically plunging blade into winecup (sexual union?)

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

 

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:58:12 -0000 "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta

writes:

>

>

> Hi Sophia ...

>

> The term "5M's" usually refers to the panchamAkara, i.e., the five

> (Pancha) "prohibited substances" employed in some aspects of Vira-

> sadhana.

>

<snip>

> VIRA Panchamakara (for those of Heroic-rajaistic/"active"

> temperament):

>

> 1. MADHYA - Wine

> 2. MAAMSA - Meat

> 3. MATSYA - Fish

> 4. MUDRAA - Parched Grain

> 5. MAITHUNA - Sexual Intercourse (under strictly controlled ritual

> conditions)

>

> DIVYA Panchatattva (for the Sattvika; one of a spiritual

> temperament) - SYMBOLIC 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = intoxicating knowledge

> 2. Meat = consigning all acts to the Divine

> 3. Matsya = empathizing with all beings

> 4. Mudra = relinquishing all association with evil

> 5. Maithuna = mental union of Shakti and Shiva in the Sahasrara

>

> PASHU Panchamakara (for one of tamasic, or tending toward

> materially-

> focused temperament) - SUBSTITUTE 5-M's

>

> 1. Wine = milk (Brahmins); ghee/clarified butter (Kshatriya); honey

> (Vaisha); rice liquour (Shudra)

> 2. Meat = salt, ginger, sesame, etc

> 3. Matsya = eggplant, red radish, etc

> 4. Parched Grain = parched grain

> 5. Maithuna = kachapa mudra; flower offering; sexual union with

> one's

> spouse (not necessarily under controlled ritual conditions)

>

 

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Get your name as your email address.

Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more

Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!

 

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