Gender Identification & Spirituality

[Guest guest]

Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious

of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and

everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound

cliches...Attainment is available to all who are

sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement

of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple

fact. The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about

attainment that need be said... I tried the method and

it works. The trouble is for most, is that sincere

desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is

the nature of the Kali Yuga. Therefore, those of us

that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly!

Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of

obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also

(Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's

self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not

for everyone, but it worked for me.

Lilith M.

--- sandeep <sandeepc wrote:

>

> <SNIP> I know; this is how I attained. <SNIP>

>

> If you know you have attained, ..........no

> attaining as yet has taken place.

>

> *****

>

> > It

> > > is only the deluded and insincere who fall from

> the Path with Left-Hand methods.

> > > Lilith M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

All things in good time. It does take a bit of practice to get used

to the vocabulary and, more importantly, to the concepts behind

the words, but the effort is worth it.

 

It may seem as if we disagree with one another and debate over

whose path is better, but we know that each path has its own

merits and is intended for people of a specific personality and

karmic load. Paths are many but Truth is One.

 

Om and Prem

 

 

, SophiasHeaven@a...

wrote:

> Thanks Om and Prem, for your reply.

> There's so much to keep track of. I feel as tho my head is

amid a cloud

> of Hummingbirds in flight, as you all navigate with great ease

agility and

> swiftness these complex and intricate questions, as if they

were great bushes of

> Flower..

> I know there was another this morning, about this topic, in

addition

> to Devi's. And several replies to the question of the 5-M's.

Each one ads a

> little to the picture. So much to consider ! :-)

>

> Blessings,

> Cathie

> In a message dated 10/4/2004 12:26:42 PM Mountain Daylight

Time,

> omprem writes:

>

> > Tamas, Rajas and Sattva are known as the three gunas.

They

> > are qualities of the phenomenal world and have been

compared

> > to the three strands of the rope that binds us to the illusory

world.

> > These gunas are present in varying degrees in everyone and

> > everything and they continually change their quantity.

> > Sometimes you are tired or resistant to change or overcome

with

> > fear, and are thus Tamasic. Other times you are charge

> > fearlessly ahead and accomplish much in the world and are

> > thus Rajasic. Other times, you are filled with a sense of

purity,

> > devotion and wisdom and are thus Sattvic. The couch potato

is

> > tamasic, the type A person is rajasic, the saint is sattvic: but

not

> > all the time.

> >

> > As long as we have attachment to the things and events of

this

> > world we under the thrall of the gunas. Sattva binds us with

an

> > attachment to happiness, Rajas binds us with an attachment

to

> > activity and Tamas binds us with an attachment to delusion.

> > Tamas wants to destroy us, Rajas wants to bind us to the

world

> > through busyness and rob us of our spiritual treasures, and

> > Sattva sets us on the path to spiritual freedom but also binds

us

> > to the resulting happiness. Tamas can be overcome by

Rajas,

> > Rajas can be overcome by Sattva, and Sattva can be

overcome

> > by overcoming the ego.

> >

> > Only God or Brahman stands outside of these three gunas.

> >

> > OM and Prem

> >

> >

> > ,

> > SophiasHeaven@a... wrote:

> > >In a message dated 10/3/2004 8:20:38 AM Mountain

Daylight

> > Time,

> > >omprem writes:

> > >

> > >>"The left hand path is the path of seeing the divine in

tamas. "

> > >>

> > >>Now we seem to getting closer to the answer to my

question.

> > >>This quote seems to be saying that the left hand path is

> > intended

> > >>for those of a tamasic nature with the intention of bringing

> > them

> > >>to a realization of their true divinity using methods to which

> > they

> > >>can relate.

> > >>

> > >>Om and Prem

> > >

> > >I hate to be asking another question that everyone else

knows

> > the answer to

> > >but me, but what is Tamas? Is Tamas the "worldly nature"?

> > >

> > >Blessings,

> > >Cathie

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Lili Masamura <sephirah5>

wrote:

>

> Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious

> of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and

> everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound

> cliches..

 

LOL.

> >

> > If you know you have attained, ..........no

> > attaining as yet has taken place.

> >

 

Attainment is available to all who are

> sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement

> of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple

> fact. The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about

> attainment that need be said... I tried the method and

> it works.

 

What is the method you are referring to? There are at least half a

dozen methods described in the Gita.

 

Sincerely,

-yogaman

[Guest guest]

I am not a 'left hand' practitioner, have never claimed to be one,

and have stated that I do not consider it to be a valid practice

FOR ME.

 

Nor did I say that 'handling shit was a repulsive spiritual

practice'. What I did do was to wonder about the state of

consciousness of one who would perform the activities that you

described, specifically which guna predominated to force such

actions.

 

Before you let your anger overwhelm you again, you should at

least make sure of what you are angry at. Then, you should use

your spiritual practices to enquire whether it is useful to be angry

at all.

 

Your post is an excellent example of how we misconstrue reality

and then allow our emotions to engage the false reality we

create.

 

 

OM and Prem

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

>

> Actually, Ramakrishna Paramahansa is one of the

> best-documented Masters we have available to us, and

> as an avatar of Kali Ma, he certainly bears close

> study by those who are genuinely desirous of

> attainment to the Goddess, rather than those who

> prefer to simply sling around high-falutin' Sanskrit

> terms and methodologies whose validity they have no

> real means of judging, except as it appeals to their

> limited sensibilities of "good" and "bad". I have no

> idea why he chose that particular sadhana; I assume he

> did what he sensed was necessary and also expedient in

> order to purify his awareness in preparation for the

> descent of the Goddess. It also must be noted that all

> these weird and discomfiting practices were a PHASE in

> his spiritual journey..once the purpose of these

> practices had been accomplished, they were left

> behind. He also did NOT recommend them to anyone else;

> everyone must find the Path in their own way, and this

> way was HIS way! If you thought that handling shit was

> a repulsive spiritual practice, you may as well know

> that at one point, while he was still seeking, in

> order to obliterate his pride in being a Brahmin,

> seeing it as an obstacle to true attainment, he also

> cleaned the latrine of his gardener with his long

> hair.

> One thing that stands out however, is that he had an

> unimpeachable reputation for telling the truth. It is

> said that he gave up everything to the Divine Mother,

> but Truth he refused to relinquish. The fact that you

> claim to be a "Left-Hand" practitioner and yet fail

> completely to grasp the essential premise behind these

> spiritually valid practices by an unquestioned Master

> suggests you have a LONG WAY to go yet. Ramakrishna

> Paramahansa attained to the Mother. Only one who has

> attained may truly speak about attainment, and

> Ramakrishna unquestionably attained. Nothing more need

> be said.

> Lilith M.

>

> --- omprem <omprem> wrote:

>

> >

> > Who knows if the stories attributed to supposedly

> > highly-evolved

> > spiritual leaders are real or apocryphal.

> >

> > Your story of Ramakrishna seems a bit too over the

> > top to be

> > believed. Why would he find it necessary to sit by

> > the Ganges

> > with a handful of shit and the other hand full of

> > money and find it

> > necessary to ponder the relative worth of both? Was

> > his intellect

> > so dense that he could only use this graphic means

> > to arrive at

> > the conclusion that neither was more or less

> > important or

> > desirable than the other and that in the end neither

> > was of any

> > consequence? This story makes no sense unless one

> > assumes that he was either very tamasic or very

> > rajasic and

> > needed such a dramatic gesture to capture his

> > attention and

> > intellect. You would probably not want to accept

> > that he was

> > anything less than sattvic. Even if it is claimed

> > that he was just

> > demonstrating what he already knew, one can suggest

> > that to do

> > so involves an ego that still has yet to be fully

> > under control.

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________

>

> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!

> http://vote.

[Guest guest]

" The Bhagavad-Gita says everything about attainment that need

be said... I tried the method and it works."

 

I hope that you are not telling us that you have attained spiritual

enlightenment, because you most assuredly have not. Your lack

of control of your emotions, your fear and judgement, your

inability to be detached and discriminate are the most obvious

signs that you still have some way to go. Enjoy your journey.

 

We are all pilgrims on the road.

 

Om and Prem

 

, Lili Masamura

<sephirah5> wrote:

>

> Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious

> of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and

> everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound

> cliches...Attainment is available to all who are

> sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement

> of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple

> fact. The trouble is for most, is that sincere

> desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is

> the nature of the Kali Yuga. Therefore, those of us

> that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly!

> Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of

> obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also

> (Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's

> self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not

> for everyone, but it worked for me.

> Lilith M.

> --- sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

>

> >

> > <SNIP> I know; this is how I attained. <SNIP>

> >

> > If you know you have attained, ..........no

> > attaining as yet has taken place.

> >

> > *****

> >

> > > It

> > > > is only the deluded and insincere who fall from

> > the Path with Left-Hand methods.

> > > > Lilith M.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- sephirah5> wrote:

> > > > Well, Ramakrishna does not seem to have been oblivious

> > of his own attainment, so you can spare me (and

> > everyone else, by extension) the quasi-profound

> > cliches...

 

 

:-)

 

Safety in numbers, eh?

 

Whether Ramakrishna or X,Y, Z...........attainment is not the knowledge of

attainment.

 

Nor an experience.

>Attainment is available to all who are

> > sincerely desirous of attaining God, so this statement

> > of mine is neither a brag or a boast, it is a simple

> > fact.

 

If it was simply that, ..........there would have been no need to defend it.:-)

 

 

For an attained being (really an oxymoron ) , .......is there an

"other",...........from whom,......... a validation, acknowledgement or

recognition can be sought?

 

Is there an "other", such that there can ever be a need to defend anything?

>> The trouble is for most, is that sincere

> > desire to reach God is almost nonexistent, which is

> > the nature of the Kali Yuga.

 

Is there still an "other" for you, whether having sincere desires or not?

>> Therefore, those of us

> > that do have a sincere desire for God, attain rapidly!

> > Those who have a sincere desire to attain by means of

> > obsolete and obscure methodologies will attain also

> > (Eventually!). The direct method of offering one's

> > self up unconditionally to the Divine is certainly not

> > for everyone, but it worked for me.

 

Do you have a self,..........to offer?

 

....whether the offer is conditional or unconditional is quite secondary.

[Guest guest]

--- omprem <omprem wrote:

>

> I am not a 'left hand' practitioner, have never

> claimed to be one,

> and have stated that I do not consider it to be a

> valid practice

> FOR ME.

####################################################

Ah, I misunderstood you, now that I looked back at

your letter, you said you were "left-handed" and I

construed this to mean that you were a "Left-Hand"

practitioner. Sorry, my mistake! BTW, I have never

advocated Left-Hand practices for anyone except to

those who are VERY VERY serious about attaining.

Dilettantes need not apply!

###################################################

> Nor did I say that 'handling shit was a repulsive

> spiritual

> practice'. What I did do was to wonder about the

> state of

> consciousness of one who would perform the

> activities that you

> described, specifically which guna predominated to

> force such

> actions.

###################################################

As you have clearly misunderstood, I will explain

again: Sadhana like this forces the practitioner to

confront his prejudices and mental conditionings

directly and by doing so, eventually go beyond them,

seeing them for what they are. One can theorize all

day long about such things, but going out and actually

sitting on a corpse, picking up a handful of shit, or

eating a piece of human flesh will give you a

practical and unmistakable demonstration of how far

you have actually come in your practice to

equilibriating your mind and contemplating ALL aspects

of Reality with an equal eye, not just the parts that

appeal to our sensibilities! Then one has truly

attained to Sat (truth) and become ready to go beyond

even that.

###################################################

>

> Before you let your anger overwhelm you again, you

> should at

> least make sure of what you are angry at. Then, you

> should use

> your spiritual practices to enquire whether it is

> useful to be angry

> at all.

##################################################

Angry? Whatever gave you the impression I was angry?

################################################

>

> Your post is an excellent example of how we

> misconstrue reality

> and then allow our emotions to engage the false

> reality we

> create.

###################################################

One could say precisely the same thing about your

post, unfortunately. I was not angry in the least when

I replied, but you saw it as such, which is a definite

example of "misconstrued reality" (with a dose of ego

on the side). You clearly know nothing at all about

Ramakrishna or his legacy, yet you presume to pass

judgement on his methods. Would it help if I told you

he was Swami Vivekananda's guru, or does that name

mean nothing to you as well? The only reality I have

misconstrued is that you were a "left-hand"

practitioner, that was all, and for that I have

already apologized. In fact I am also a serious

devotee of the Shiva Lingam, and can claim to know

something about Shaivite methods of worship..some of

them are just as extreme as anything I have described

up till now!

Lilith M.

 

 

 

 

_______________________________

 

Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!

http://vote.

[Guest guest]

True, we are all pilgrims on the road, but, we are

all at different places on it."Every man and every

woman is a star" too, but stars are of varying

magnitudes. I can tell you, though, that

"enlightenment" is an ongoing process, there is no

endpoint, though there ARE definite stages that one

arrives at.

Well, actually, I had no idea about the

enlightenment thing until some books crossed my path

on people who had actually undergone the process, such

as Ramakrishna, Radha Sivananda, Gyanamata, etc., and

immediately recognized that I had undergone exactly

the same processes that all these people had, so yes,

I AM, in fact telling you just that... If I can do it,

then anyone can do it, you just have to want it more

than anything else in the world!. It would be selfish

of me to hide my methodology if there are people out

there who can benefit from it, and those people are

welcome to contact me privately at my e-addy if they

want. And it won't cost any money, either! There are

so many people out there pretending to be enlightened

and cheating people in the process, so why not someone

who is NOT pretending, and doesn't cheat, for a

change? And lastly, the proof of the pudding is in the

eating. As the Freemasons say, "Test me, try me."

Lilith M.