Osho, the true story of a "spiritually incorrect" mystic. :P

[Guest guest]

Beloved Om,

 

I nowhere said Osho was my master. But you were very

quick to attack him rather than discuss the points I

put forward. A typical tactic of a fanatic who can't

argue his way out of a wet paper back.

 

I will say that Osho is a teacher whom I greatly

admire, and since you felt "obliged" to present those

"facts" I feel like I need to tell Osho's real story.

 

Osho, born Rajneesh Chandra Mohan, began his career as

a widely recognized Jain Acharya.. or more accurately,

the Jains thought he was a great Jain teacher, because

he was teaching, was great, and came from a Jain

family. Until he started to speak positively about

Krishna, who the Jains see as a wicked figure for

advocating violence. So they rejected him, and the

Hindus (who love Krishna) adopted him.

He was then thought of as a great hindu teacher, until

one day when he was brought before a crowd of 10000

indian hindus to speak on "love", and instead decided

to speak about "sex", a topic that terrified and

angered fundamentalist hindus. Even though all he said

was that sex neither helps nor harms the spiritual

path, he was labelled by these hindus (the same ones

who loved him for sticking it to the Jains) as a

"degenerate" and "sex guru". This title led a lot of

Westerners, mostly Hippies, to him, who were "turned

on" by the idea of having a sex guru.

 

Osho went to the US in the 1980s, after many years of

preaching to these hippies about not believing in

authoritarian priesthoods and rejecting authority

based on lineage in favour of free thought and

personal experience. He then went into silence, and

allowed power-hungry followers to take over his

commune, who promptly started abusing power in his

name. The hippies in question obeyed in large

measure, proving that they hadn't really been paying

much attention to what Osho had said.

He started talking again, kicked out the power-hungry

followers, and started speaking up against the US

government and fundamentalist christians. The US

government (run by fundamentalist christians, the

reagan administration) reacted by accusing him of gun

running, attempted murder, poisoining, etc etc.. but

conveniently couldn't actually prove any of that, so

they only charged him with immigration fraud.

he was deported, and refused entry to 21 other

countries in the world, at each one due to US

government influence or the internal fear of having a

guru who was known for critizing the politicians and

priesthoods in power wherever he went.

Finally he returned to India where they couldn't turn

him away. There he spoke a series of lectures on the

Buddhas that won praise from, among others the Dalai

and Panchen Lamas.

Osho died in 1990 as a result of poisoning, possibly

from the US government (the claims of his followers)

or possibly from some of his "followers" hungry for

power and afraid of being kicked out of the commune

(say other sources). Either are plausible theories.

He left behind a legacy of hundreds of books, and a

radical teaching, as well as producing more

enlightened followers than any other master in recent

history.

The Indian government, which hated him while he was

alive, has recently started honouring him as one of

the great minds of the 20th century in india,

dedicating a wing of the national library to his

works, the only person to have that "honour" other

than Gandhi. Osho himself would probably have

mentioned that its typical for governments to praise

teachers, once they're too dead to be a threat to

them.

 

Osho is admired by millions worldwide, but more

importantly he is hated by many. You can often

realize far better how valuable a teacher is by

looking at who hates him and why. In Osho's case, it

is followers of orthodox religions (Fundamentalist

Hinduism and Christianity), followers of spiritual

"lineages" that base their teaching on blind devotion

or strict dualistic formulas ("do japa till your head

bleeds and you're sure to be enlightened" says

sivananda), or simplistic con artists who demand the

blind faith of their followers (Sai Baba anyone?).

Also, the Reagan Administration and US government.

 

Yes, I quote Osho as authoritative. His authority

doesn't lie in being initiated by someone who was

initiated by someone who was initiated by someone who

may or may not have been enlightened. His authority

rests on his enlightenment, the earth is his witness.

His authority is my authority, the authority of my

experience, which is far more important than your

dogma.

 

My views are informed by spirituality, a word you

mistakenly think of as synonymous with orthodoxy and

blind faith.

 

You just keep doing your japa, Omprem, till your head

bleeds if you like. I hope you someday realize that

your "disciplines" aren't worth the saffron they're

dyed with.

 

Love

Nisarg

 

 

 

Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Nisarg -

 

The thing that I remembered with my friends who were involved with

Rajneesh in the 70's was the lack of questioning of anything and

everything he did or under his responsibility. When the stories

would come back from Oregon about simulated rapes or places where

bones were broken on the participants, it was kind of dismissed as

them "working out their karma." There didn't seem to be a lot of

commonsense or compassion given to the whole situation. At that time

the warning flags went up with me that it would be wise to stay away.

 

After he died, it seems kind of apropo, strange and mysterious. And

I have always wondered if he really did die or perhaps that was a

cover story and he was off doing other things.

 

When Osho started to show up, it took me awhile to discover that it

was Rajneesh. Under the cover of Osho, it introduced me to a lot of

his writings. Yes, there is wisdom to be found there, but the

shadow of Rajneesh past still is there, too.

 

What has bothered me lately is that there are a lot of Neo-Tantra

groups in the US and Canada that are using Rajneesh's methods. While

they seem to be something "like" tantra, the look is more like an

amalgam the human potential movement, Esalen, Rogers, Delphi, et al.,

than like real Tantra - although here in the US I'm still not sure

what Real Tantra is. I'm not sure if it is Rajneesh or Osho, but

there is something missing in the mix.

 

Sincerely,

 

Eric Otto

[Guest guest]

Beloved Eric,

 

As you may have picked up from my "biography", I am

not a huge fan of much of what Osho's followers have

done. It appears that Osho always used the method of

drawing together large numbers of followers, for the

sake of imparting real advancement to only a few.

Periodically, he'd completely change the externals of

his teaching, which would then lead many of his

current followers to reject him because it was

precisely those externals which attracted them to him,

and not the real essence of his instruction. In this

way he went through a constant refining of the type

and qualities of his students, until he had a small

number who were his real "mystery school" (these were

not the administrators of his ashram either, those

have mostly demonstrated themselves to be

opportunists).

 

Regarding the Tantra groups inspired by Osho that you

have run into, many of these groups are nothing more

than mishmash as you say. Many of the Esalen types

were attracted to Osho in the hippie period, and fell

into the fallacy of assuming that what Osho was trying

to teach had something to do with what they already

thought they "knew". Thus, many of these groups (run

by these types) are actually not based on Osho as much

as they are on these "therapies" that were hip to some

of Osho's disciples.

 

Love

Nisarg

 

--- Eric Otto <mkultra wrote:

>

> Hi Nisarg -

>

> The thing that I remembered with my friends who were

> involved with

> Rajneesh in the 70's was the lack of questioning of

> anything and

> everything he did or under his responsibility. When

> the stories

> would come back from Oregon about simulated rapes or

> places where

> bones were broken on the participants, it was kind

> of dismissed as

> them "working out their karma." There didn't seem

> to be a lot of

> commonsense or compassion given to the whole

> situation. At that time

> the warning flags went up with me that it would be

> wise to stay away.

>

> After he died, it seems kind of apropo, strange and

> mysterious. And

> I have always wondered if he really did die or

> perhaps that was a

> cover story and he was off doing other things.

>

> When Osho started to show up, it took me awhile to

> discover that it

> was Rajneesh. Under the cover of Osho, it

> introduced me to a lot of

> his writings. Yes, there is wisdom to be found

> there, but the

> shadow of Rajneesh past still is there, too.

>

> What has bothered me lately is that there are a lot

> of Neo-Tantra

> groups in the US and Canada that are using

> Rajneesh's methods. While

> they seem to be something "like" tantra, the look is

> more like an

> amalgam the human potential movement, Esalen,

> Rogers, Delphi, et al.,

> than like real Tantra - although here in the US I'm

> still not sure

> what Real Tantra is. I'm not sure if it is Rajneesh

> or Osho, but

> there is something missing in the mix.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Eric Otto

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.

http://taxes./filing.html

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Before anyone pass their judgement I suggest some reading into Bhagawan Rajneesh

writings. Please do not pass your judgement by hearing words and what so called

pseudo disciples have done . Diamond Book Series are a good help.You would know

what his teachings really means. Remember Bhagawan Ramakrishna was also called

mad in his time.

 

The poem by Swami Sivananda did not state maya as evil but only veil. I think

there is some misunderstanding at this point. Illusion in english is a corrupt

defination of what Maya means in sanskrit and Mahamaya would not only mean Great

Illusion as some easily define it . A through defination of both is given by

Swami Satyananda Sarasvathi of Devi Mandir . The word Mahamaya is most

frequently referred in Kalika Purana and even Mahamaya worship have been defined

there. For the earnest seekers that would be the text of reference apart form

Srimad Devi Bhagavatham.

 

Swami Sivananda is following the vedantic approach of Neti ! Neti ! ( Not this !

Not this !)where else Bhagawan Rajneesh keeping up with his tantric expertise is

saying Iti ! Iti !( This in essence is That). This is like one saying a cup is

half full while the other is saying the cup is half empty !!! Both are in

essence true (and it does not matter if both agrees on this as both perception

are based on each differing understanding and experience )

 

I thank the moderator( thank you for the patience) of this group for allowing

both Om Premji as well as Swami Anand Nisargji for share their understanding on

this matter!!!

 

Hari Om !!

 

 

Swami Anand Nisarg <swamiji_nisarg wrote:

 

Beloved Eric,

 

As you may have picked up from my "biography", I am

not a huge fan of much of what Osho's followers have

done. It appears that Osho always used the method of

drawing together large numbers of followers, for the

sake of imparting real advancement to only a few.

Periodically, he'd completely change the externals of

his teaching, which would then lead many of his

current followers to reject him because it was

precisely those externals which attracted them to him,

and not the real essence of his instruction. In this

way he went through a constant refining of the type

and qualities of his students, until he had a small

number who were his real "mystery school" (these were

not the administrators of his ashram either, those

have mostly demonstrated themselves to be

opportunists).

 

Regarding the Tantra groups inspired by Osho that you

have run into, many of these groups are nothing more

than mishmash as you say. Many of the Esalen types

were attracted to Osho in the hippie period, and fell

into the fallacy of assuming that what Osho was trying

to teach had something to do with what they already

thought they "knew". Thus, many of these groups (run

by these types) are actually not based on Osho as much

as they are on these "therapies" that were hip to some

of Osho's disciples.

 

Love

Nisarg

 

--- Eric Otto <mkultra wrote:

>

> Hi Nisarg -

>

> The thing that I remembered with my friends who were

> involved with

> Rajneesh in the 70's was the lack of questioning of

> anything and

> everything he did or under his responsibility. When

> the stories

> would come back from Oregon about simulated rapes or

> places where

> bones were broken on the participants, it was kind

> of dismissed as

> them "working out their karma." There didn't seem

> to be a lot of

> commonsense or compassion given to the whole

> situation. At that time

> the warning flags went up with me that it would be

> wise to stay away.

>

> After he died, it seems kind of apropo, strange and

> mysterious. And

> I have always wondered if he really did die or

> perhaps that was a

> cover story and he was off doing other things.

>

> When Osho started to show up, it took me awhile to

> discover that it

> was Rajneesh. Under the cover of Osho, it

> introduced me to a lot of

> his writings. Yes, there is wisdom to be found

> there, but the

> shadow of Rajneesh past still is there, too.

>

> What has bothered me lately is that there are a lot

> of Neo-Tantra

> groups in the US and Canada that are using

> Rajneesh's methods. While

> they seem to be something "like" tantra, the look is

> more like an

> amalgam the human potential movement, Esalen,

> Rogers, Delphi, et al.,

> than like real Tantra - although here in the US I'm

> still not sure

> what Real Tantra is. I'm not sure if it is Rajneesh

> or Osho, but

> there is something missing in the mix.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Eric Otto

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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http://taxes./filing.html

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

OM Kanna Krishnan

 

While I appreciate your tact and your attempt to offer a balanced

explanation of views of Swami Sivananda's views and Rajneesh,

it seems to me that actions speak louder than words.

 

Rajneesh was a degenerate, who allowed himself to become

corrupted by power. In assessing Rajneesh, one should

consider the following actions of Rajneesh, his cult and his

followers rather than be swayed by his bafflegab:

 

1. Rajneesh came to the US in 1981 to escape income tax

evasion charges in India. He lasted only 5 years in the US until

he was arrested while attempting to flee the US and was

deported in 1986 after pleading `no contest' to immigration

crimes. He was charged with one count of criminal conspiracy

(RICO) and 34 counts of making false statements to federal

(INS) officers. He plea bargained down to a `no contest' on 2 of

the 34 counts and was given a 10-year suspended sentence on

condition of not returning to the US for 5 years.

 

His corporations were ordered to pay $400,000 to the state of

Oregon in compensation for investigative costs, $500,00 to settle

the claims of four restaurants who suffered losses due to

poisonings, an additional $400,00 to the restaurant owners, $5

million to the Oregon state victim's fund. He was also ordered to

sell the ranch and waive all claims to money and jewels

impounded with his plane when he was finally arrested in North

Carolina.

 

2. Bioterrorism. Ma Ananada Sheela, Rajnesh's personal

secretary and top aide, was convicted of masterminding the plot

to poison 750 people in The Dalles, Oregon in a bizarre attempt

to incapacitate voters so that a Rajneesh slate could be elected.

 

3. For the attempted murder of Charles Turner, Oregon US

Attorney, 7 of Rajneesh's followers are indicted, 6 are convicted

with the 7th being able to avoid extradition from Europe.

 

4. Two of Rajnesh's followers convicted in the attempted murder

of Turner are also convicted of wire-tapping along with 14 other

Rajneesh followers. Another 5 remain at large.

 

5. Rajneesh was refused admittance to 21 countries and was

only able to return to India when a settlement was reached on

the income tax evasion charges.

 

6, Rajneesh was a drug addict who was addicted to Valium and

who inhaled nitrous oxide both of which seriously impaired his

judgement.

 

This is not someone who should be held up as any type of

spiritual model.

 

OM Namah Sivaya

 

Omprem

 

 

, kanna krishnan

<kanna_krishnan2002> wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Before anyone pass their judgement I suggest some reading

into Bhagawan Rajneesh writings. Please do not pass your

judgement by hearing words and what so called pseudo

disciples have done . Diamond Book Series are a good help.You

would know what his teachings really means. Remember

Bhagawan Ramakrishna was also called mad in his time.

>

> The poem by Swami Sivananda did not state maya as evil but

only veil. I think there is some misunderstanding at this point.

Illusion in english is a corrupt defination of what Maya means in

sanskrit and Mahamaya would not only mean Great Illusion as

some easily define it . A through defination of both is given by

Swami Satyananda Sarasvathi of Devi Mandir . The word

Mahamaya is most frequently referred in Kalika Purana and even

Mahamaya worship have been defined there. For the earnest

seekers that would be the text of reference apart form Srimad

Devi Bhagavatham.

>

> Swami Sivananda is following the vedantic approach of Neti !

Neti ! ( Not this ! Not this !)where else Bhagawan Rajneesh

keeping up with his tantric expertise is saying Iti ! Iti !( This in

essence is That). This is like one saying a cup is half full while

the other is saying the cup is half empty !!! Both are in essence

true (and it does not matter if both agrees on this as both

perception are based on each differing understanding and

experience )

>

> I thank the moderator( thank you for the patience) of this group

for allowing both Om Premji as well as Swami Anand Nisargji for

share their understanding on this matter!!!

>

> Hari Om !!

>

>

> Swami Anand Nisarg <swamiji_nisarg> wrote:

>

> Beloved Eric,

>

> As you may have picked up from my "biography", I am

> not a huge fan of much of what Osho's followers have

> done. It appears that Osho always used the method of

> drawing together large numbers of followers, for the

> sake of imparting real advancement to only a few.

> Periodically, he'd completely change the externals of

> his teaching, which would then lead many of his

> current followers to reject him because it was

> precisely those externals which attracted them to him,

> and not the real essence of his instruction. In this

> way he went through a constant refining of the type

> and qualities of his students, until he had a small

> number who were his real "mystery school" (these were

> not the administrators of his ashram either, those

> have mostly demonstrated themselves to be

> opportunists).

>

> Regarding the Tantra groups inspired by Osho that you

> have run into, many of these groups are nothing more

> than mishmash as you say. Many of the Esalen types

> were attracted to Osho in the hippie period, and fell

> into the fallacy of assuming that what Osho was trying

> to teach had something to do with what they already

> thought they "knew". Thus, many of these groups (run

> by these types) are actually not based on Osho as much

> as they are on these "therapies" that were hip to some

> of Osho's disciples.

>

> Love

> Nisarg

>

> --- Eric Otto <mkultra@f...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nisarg -

> >

> > The thing that I remembered with my friends who were

> > involved with

> > Rajneesh in the 70's was the lack of questioning of

> > anything and

> > everything he did or under his responsibility. When

> > the stories

> > would come back from Oregon about simulated rapes or

> > places where

> > bones were broken on the participants, it was kind

> > of dismissed as

> > them "working out their karma." There didn't seem

> > to be a lot of

> > commonsense or compassion given to the whole

> > situation. At that time

> > the warning flags went up with me that it would be

> > wise to stay away.

> >

> > After he died, it seems kind of apropo, strange and

> > mysterious. And

> > I have always wondered if he really did die or

> > perhaps that was a

> > cover story and he was off doing other things.

> >

> > When Osho started to show up, it took me awhile to

> > discover that it

> > was Rajneesh. Under the cover of Osho, it

> > introduced me to a lot of

> > his writings. Yes, there is wisdom to be found

> > there, but the

> > shadow of Rajneesh past still is there, too.

> >

> > What has bothered me lately is that there are a lot

> > of Neo-Tantra

> > groups in the US and Canada that are using

> > Rajneesh's methods. While

> > they seem to be something "like" tantra, the look is

> > more like an

> > amalgam the human potential movement, Esalen,

> > Rogers, Delphi, et al.,

> > than like real Tantra - although here in the US I'm

> > still not sure

> > what Real Tantra is. I'm not sure if it is Rajneesh

> > or Osho, but

> > there is something missing in the mix.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Eric Otto

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Omprem,

 

Rather than reply to the various misdirections and

fallacies you stated about Osho, I will simply

reiterated what I said earlier. You can learn a lot

about the spiritual value of a teacher by seeing who

hates him.

 

If one is interested in being a hindu fundamentalist

or a rigid fanatic, or on the other side of ingesting

new age touchy-feely spiritual pablum with no

substance, then one should stay very far away from

Osho.

On the other hand, if you are against both of those,

then consider that both of those are against Osho.

Then read what Osho has to say, and draw your own

conclusions.

 

Love

Swami

 

 

--- omprem <omprem wrote:

> OM Kanna Krishnan

>

> While I appreciate your tact and your attempt to

> offer a balanced

> explanation of views of Swami Sivananda's views and

> Rajneesh,

> it seems to me that actions speak louder than words.

>

>

> Rajneesh was a degenerate, who allowed himself to

> become

> corrupted by power. In assessing Rajneesh, one

> should

> consider the following actions of Rajneesh, his cult

> and his

> followers rather than be swayed by his bafflegab:

>

> 1. Rajneesh came to the US in 1981 to escape income

> tax

> evasion charges in India. He lasted only 5 years in

> the US until

> he was arrested while attempting to flee the US and

> was

> deported in 1986 after pleading `no contest' to

> immigration

> crimes. He was charged with one count of criminal

> conspiracy

> (RICO) and 34 counts of making false statements to

> federal

> (INS) officers. He plea bargained down to a `no

> contest' on 2 of

> the 34 counts and was given a 10-year suspended

> sentence on

> condition of not returning to the US for 5 years.

>

> His corporations were ordered to pay $400,000 to the

> state of

> Oregon in compensation for investigative costs,

> $500,00 to settle

> the claims of four restaurants who suffered losses

> due to

> poisonings, an additional $400,00 to the restaurant

> owners, $5

> million to the Oregon state victim's fund. He was

> also ordered to

> sell the ranch and waive all claims to money and

> jewels

> impounded with his plane when he was finally

> arrested in North

> Carolina.

>

> 2. Bioterrorism. Ma Ananada Sheela, Rajnesh's

> personal

> secretary and top aide, was convicted of

> masterminding the plot

> to poison 750 people in The Dalles, Oregon in a

> bizarre attempt

> to incapacitate voters so that a Rajneesh slate

> could be elected.

>

> 3. For the attempted murder of Charles Turner,

> Oregon US

> Attorney, 7 of Rajneesh's followers are indicted, 6

> are convicted

> with the 7th being able to avoid extradition from

> Europe.

>

> 4. Two of Rajnesh's followers convicted in the

> attempted murder

> of Turner are also convicted of wire-tapping along

> with 14 other

> Rajneesh followers. Another 5 remain at large.

>

> 5. Rajneesh was refused admittance to 21 countries

> and was

> only able to return to India when a settlement was

> reached on

> the income tax evasion charges.

>

> 6, Rajneesh was a drug addict who was addicted to

> Valium and

> who inhaled nitrous oxide both of which seriously

> impaired his

> judgement.

>

> This is not someone who should be held up as any

> type of

> spiritual model.

>

> OM Namah Sivaya

>

> Omprem

>

>

> , kanna

> krishnan

> <kanna_krishnan2002> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Before anyone pass their judgement I suggest some

> reading

> into Bhagawan Rajneesh writings. Please do not pass

> your

> judgement by hearing words and what so called pseudo

>

> disciples have done . Diamond Book Series are a good

> help.You

> would know what his teachings really means. Remember

>

> Bhagawan Ramakrishna was also called mad in his

> time.

> >

> > The poem by Swami Sivananda did not state maya as

> evil but

> only veil. I think there is some misunderstanding at

> this point.

> Illusion in english is a corrupt defination of what

> Maya means in

> sanskrit and Mahamaya would not only mean Great

> Illusion as

> some easily define it . A through defination of both

> is given by

> Swami Satyananda Sarasvathi of Devi Mandir . The

> word

> Mahamaya is most frequently referred in Kalika

> Purana and even

> Mahamaya worship have been defined there. For the

> earnest

> seekers that would be the text of reference apart

> form Srimad

> Devi Bhagavatham.

> >

> > Swami Sivananda is following the vedantic approach

> of Neti !

> Neti ! ( Not this ! Not this !)where else Bhagawan

> Rajneesh

> keeping up with his tantric expertise is saying Iti

> ! Iti !( This in

> essence is That). This is like one saying a cup is

> half full while

> the other is saying the cup is half empty !!! Both

> are in essence

> true (and it does not matter if both agrees on this

> as both

> perception are based on each differing understanding

> and

> experience )

> >

> > I thank the moderator( thank you for the patience)

> of this group

> for allowing both Om Premji as well as Swami Anand

> Nisargji for

> share their understanding on this matter!!!

> >

> > Hari Om !!

> >

> >

> > Swami Anand Nisarg <swamiji_nisarg> wrote:

> >

> > Beloved Eric,

> >

> > As you may have picked up from my "biography", I

> am

> > not a huge fan of much of what Osho's followers

> have

> > done. It appears that Osho always used the method

> of

> > drawing together large numbers of followers, for

> the

> > sake of imparting real advancement to only a few.

> > Periodically, he'd completely change the externals

> of

> > his teaching, which would then lead many of his

> > current followers to reject him because it was

> > precisely those externals which attracted them to

> him,

> > and not the real essence of his instruction. In

> this

> > way he went through a constant refining of the

> type

> > and qualities of his students, until he had a

> small

> > number who were his real "mystery school" (these

> were

> > not the administrators of his ashram either, those

> > have mostly demonstrated themselves to be

> > opportunists).

> >

> > Regarding the Tantra groups inspired by Osho that

> you

> > have run into, many of these groups are nothing

> more

> > than mishmash as you say. Many of the Esalen

> types

> > were attracted to Osho in the hippie period, and

> fell

> > into the fallacy of assuming that what Osho was

> trying

> > to teach had something to do with what they

> already

> > thought they "knew". Thus, many of these groups

> (run

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Swami Anand Nisarg [swamiji_nisarg]

>If one is interested in being a hindu fundamentalist

>or a rigid fanatic, or on the other side of ingesting

>new age touchy-feely spiritual pablum with no

>substance, then one should stay very far away from

>Osho.

 

Blessings Swamiji,

 

I've enjoyed your messages on this forum. For me, you hit the nail on the

head. Certainly there is a reality behind and beyond the mundane world of

the senses. Controlling our mind and its reaction to sensory input and

instinct is a noble goal, as is removing the stench of self-interest from

our actions. We must master the senses - but not extinguish them. They are,

after all, Her gift to us in our cuurent forms. And I'm not one to reject

Her gifts.

 

The history of swamis and saints prove one overarching truth: in the quest

to realize we are Divine, it is easy to forget that we are human.

 

In Her Service,

 

KG

[Guest guest]

Om Premji,

 

I just happen to read you mail today. I am not trying to be diplomatic here but

only out of my own experience. After my mail on this, variuos contributors have

tried to make you understand this but only Maa knows whether it made any

diffrence to both of you .

 

I would pray for you understanding as only She can make you realise............

 

Jai Sivanandaji Ki Jai !!! Jai BhAgawan Rajneesh Ki JaI!!

 

P/S ; I follow Baba's advice - Do not want to get angry....................

 

omprem <omprem wrote:

OM Kanna Krishnan

 

While I appreciate your tact and your attempt to offer a balanced

explanation of views of Swami Sivananda's views and Rajneesh,

it seems to me that actions speak louder than words.

 

Rajneesh was a degenerate, who allowed himself to become

corrupted by power. In assessing Rajneesh, one should

consider the following actions of Rajneesh, his cult and his

followers rather than be swayed by his bafflegab:

 

1. Rajneesh came to the US in 1981 to escape income tax

evasion charges in India. He lasted only 5 years in the US until

he was arrested while attempting to flee the US and was

deported in 1986 after pleading `no contest' to immigration

crimes. He was charged with one count of criminal conspiracy

(RICO) and 34 counts of making false statements to federal

(INS) officers. He plea bargained down to a `no contest' on 2 of

the 34 counts and was given a 10-year suspended sentence on

condition of not returning to the US for 5 years.

 

His corporations were ordered to pay $400,000 to the state of

Oregon in compensation for investigative costs, $500,00 to settle

the claims of four restaurants who suffered losses due to

poisonings, an additional $400,00 to the restaurant owners, $5

million to the Oregon state victim's fund. He was also ordered to

sell the ranch and waive all claims to money and jewels

impounded with his plane when he was finally arrested in North

Carolina.

 

2. Bioterrorism. Ma Ananada Sheela, Rajnesh's personal

secretary and top aide, was convicted of masterminding the plot

to poison 750 people in The Dalles, Oregon in a bizarre attempt

to incapacitate voters so that a Rajneesh slate could be elected.

 

3. For the attempted murder of Charles Turner, Oregon US

Attorney, 7 of Rajneesh's followers are indicted, 6 are convicted

with the 7th being able to avoid extradition from Europe.

 

4. Two of Rajnesh's followers convicted in the attempted murder

of Turner are also convicted of wire-tapping along with 14 other

Rajneesh followers. Another 5 remain at large.

 

5. Rajneesh was refused admittance to 21 countries and was

only able to return to India when a settlement was reached on

the income tax evasion charges.

 

6, Rajneesh was a drug addict who was addicted to Valium and

who inhaled nitrous oxide both of which seriously impaired his

judgement.

 

This is not someone who should be held up as any type of

spiritual model.

 

OM Namah Sivaya

 

Omprem

 

 

, kanna krishnan

<kanna_krishnan2002> wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Before anyone pass their judgement I suggest some reading

into Bhagawan Rajneesh writings. Please do not pass your

judgement by hearing words and what so called pseudo

disciples have done . Diamond Book Series are a good help.You

would know what his teachings really means. Remember

Bhagawan Ramakrishna was also called mad in his time.

>

> The poem by Swami Sivananda did not state maya as evil but

only veil. I think there is some misunderstanding at this point.

Illusion in english is a corrupt defination of what Maya means in

sanskrit and Mahamaya would not only mean Great Illusion as

some easily define it . A through defination of both is given by

Swami Satyananda Sarasvathi of Devi Mandir . The word

Mahamaya is most frequently referred in Kalika Purana and even

Mahamaya worship have been defined there. For the earnest

seekers that would be the text of reference apart form Srimad

Devi Bhagavatham.

>

> Swami Sivananda is following the vedantic approach of Neti !

Neti ! ( Not this ! Not this !)where else Bhagawan Rajneesh

keeping up with his tantric expertise is saying Iti ! Iti !( This in

essence is That). This is like one saying a cup is half full while

the other is saying the cup is half empty !!! Both are in essence

true (and it does not matter if both agrees on this as both

perception are based on each differing understanding and

experience )

>

> I thank the moderator( thank you for the patience) of this group

for allowing both Om Premji as well as Swami Anand Nisargji for

share their understanding on this matter!!!

>

> Hari Om !!

>

>

> Swami Anand Nisarg <swamiji_nisarg> wrote:

>

> Beloved Eric,

>

> As you may have picked up from my "biography", I am

> not a huge fan of much of what Osho's followers have

> done. It appears that Osho always used the method of

> drawing together large numbers of followers, for the

> sake of imparting real advancement to only a few.

> Periodically, he'd completely change the externals of

> his teaching, which would then lead many of his

> current followers to reject him because it was

> precisely those externals which attracted them to him,

> and not the real essence of his instruction. In this

> way he went through a constant refining of the type

> and qualities of his students, until he had a small

> number who were his real "mystery school" (these were

> not the administrators of his ashram either, those

> have mostly demonstrated themselves to be

> opportunists).

>

> Regarding the Tantra groups inspired by Osho that you

> have run into, many of these groups are nothing more

> than mishmash as you say. Many of the Esalen types

> were attracted to Osho in the hippie period, and fell

> into the fallacy of assuming that what Osho was trying

> to teach had something to do with what they already

> thought they "knew". Thus, many of these groups (run

> by these types) are actually not based on Osho as much

> as they are on these "therapies" that were hip to some

> of Osho's disciples.

>

> Love

> Nisarg

>

> --- Eric Otto <mkultra@f...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nisarg -

> >

> > The thing that I remembered with my friends who were

> > involved with

> > Rajneesh in the 70's was the lack of questioning of

> > anything and

> > everything he did or under his responsibility. When

> > the stories

> > would come back from Oregon about simulated rapes or

> > places where

> > bones were broken on the participants, it was kind

> > of dismissed as

> > them "working out their karma." There didn't seem

> > to be a lot of

> > commonsense or compassion given to the whole

> > situation. At that time

> > the warning flags went up with me that it would be

> > wise to stay away.

> >

> > After he died, it seems kind of apropo, strange and

> > mysterious. And

> > I have always wondered if he really did die or

> > perhaps that was a

> > cover story and he was off doing other things.

> >

> > When Osho started to show up, it took me awhile to

> > discover that it

> > was Rajneesh. Under the cover of Osho, it

> > introduced me to a lot of

> > his writings. Yes, there is wisdom to be found

> > there, but the

> > shadow of Rajneesh past still is there, too.

> >

> > What has bothered me lately is that there are a lot

> > of Neo-Tantra

> > groups in the US and Canada that are using

> > Rajneesh's methods. While

> > they seem to be something "like" tantra, the look is

> > more like an

> > amalgam the human potential movement, Esalen,

> > Rogers, Delphi, et al.,

> > than like real Tantra - although here in the US I'm

> > still not sure

> > what Real Tantra is. I'm not sure if it is Rajneesh

> > or Osho, but

> > there is something missing in the mix.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Eric Otto

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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[Bhagwan 0]

Omprem,

I think you should check your facts before you start labelling Osho as a `drug addict`,addicted to valium and nitous oxide.You may have read this somewhere on the internet,but be carefull where you get your information.As I have said elsewhere on this site,it is extremely unlikely that Oaho was addicted to Valium,did not have chronic fatigue,as is also being stipulated,and was not addicted to Nitrous Oxide.It is easy to find conversations on this subject elsewhere on the internet with his dentist and his dental technicians who have nothing to hide about his use of Nitrous Oxide.

You may not see him as a `perfect` spiritual model but he has certainly helped,and transformed a lot of people,and there are many sannyasins who are also now enlightened and teaching others.Remember,living masters are often controversial and vilified by the masses.And human.

Love,

Bhagwan.