new year

January 6, 2005

, christiane cameron

<christianecameron@m...> wrote:

> you wrote praying cannot change karma, only meditation is really

> effective (in changing karmas)

Namaste Chris,

There is no point in this ball game.

I am not trying to establish a position or justify my behaviour. So

let me say this again IMO.

Whether a person realises moksha or not, the prarabda karma would

still play out in their life in exactly the same way. The Mukta

doesn't talk as the Self for the Self cannot individualise and still

be the Self. That is why Ramana talked of teaching by 'Silence'/Self.

So Muktas can be 'fallible' as they still talk as the body/mind and

it is subject to prarabda. Remember the body-mind is there as long

as the body.

Again if you check Ramana talking of pictures, in this case it was

one of a Sai Baba, more than likely Shirdi Baba. He said that it was

a point of concentration and useful in that way. The same would

apply to mountains or any other form. I know his attitude from

simply reading what he said about things.

With regard to getting emotional and devotional about a picture. Is

that not concentration? Providing it leads one in the way of Moksha.

However Ramana's teaching was 'Who am I?' simple as that. All the

rest was just steps on the way to that enquiry.

A Mukta-body cannot talk as the Self---------think about it, the

Self is Universal not particular, that is the Ego.

In some way when a person becomes realised and loses the ego the

residual mind is energised by the Universal but no new karma or mind

is added. I believe this is the mistake people make in worshipping

Gurus as God incarnate. This is a step on the way but really only as

a Sadhana, it has to be let go of when one goes within. The Guru

pushes from outside but it is the Inner Consciousness that pulls us

in-------so to speak-------'Who am I?'. We are as Maharaj would say

Praneaswara or Sakti. So the step is to merge with the Sakti which

results in realisation of Nirguna at the same time. This can be done

with bhakti-----yes but only bhakti that has lost the ego.

The other steps are part of purification/sadhana, but the real work

is 'Who am I?'. Everything else is only a step.

Ramana is a body/mind and it can err. The Self is something else

otherwise why bother doing the prarabda. I have no doubt that a

Sadhaka such as Ramana would have a purified mind. However there is

Prarabda!!!!!!!!!Again that is why -------'The teaching of Silence'.

I'm sorry if this upsets you Chris or anybody else, but it is my

prarabda to write it and yours to read it.......Love and ONS...Tony.

January 6, 2005

Hi Tony,

I didn't know that exchanging mails here is a ball game. Indeed, there

is no point at all.

Chris

On Jan 6, 2005, at 22:26, saktidasa wrote:

>

> , christiane cameron

> <christianecameron@m...> wrote:

> > you wrote praying cannot change karma, only meditation is really

> > effective (in changing karmas)

>

> Namaste Chris,

>

> There is no point in this ball game.

>

> I am not trying to establish a position or justify my behaviour. So

> let me say this again IMO.

> Whether a person realises moksha or not, the prarabda karma would

> still play out in their life in exactly the same way. The Mukta

> doesn't talk as the Self for the Self cannot individualise and still

> be the Self. That is why Ramana talked of teaching by 'Silence'/Self.

>

> So Muktas can be 'fallible' as they still talk as the body/mind and

> it is subject to prarabda. Remember the body-mind is there as long

> as the body.

>

> Again if you check Ramana talking of pictures, in this case it was

> one of a Sai Baba, more than likely Shirdi Baba. He said that it was

> a point of concentration and useful in that way. The same would

> apply to mountains or any other form. I know his attitude from

> simply reading what he said about things.

>

> With regard to getting emotional and devotional about a picture. Is

> that not concentration? Providing it leads one in the way of Moksha.

> However Ramana's teaching was 'Who am I?' simple as that. All the

> rest was just steps on the way to that enquiry.

>

> A Mukta-body cannot talk as the Self---------think about it, the

> Self is Universal not particular, that is the Ego.

>

> In some way when a person becomes realised and loses the ego the

> residual mind is energised by the Universal but no new karma or mind

> is added. I believe this is the mistake people make in worshipping

> Gurus as God incarnate. This is a step on the way but really only as

> a Sadhana, it has to be let go of when one goes within. The Guru

> pushes from outside but it is the Inner Consciousness that pulls us

> in-------so to speak-------'Who am I?'. We are as Maharaj would say

> Praneaswara or Sakti. So the step is to merge with the Sakti which

> results in realisation of Nirguna at the same time. This can be done

> with bhakti-----yes but only bhakti that has lost the ego.

> The other steps are part of purification/sadhana, but the real work

> is 'Who am I?'. Everything else is only a step.

>

> Ramana is a body/mind and it can err. The Self is something else

> otherwise why bother doing the prarabda. I have no doubt that a

> Sadhaka such as Ramana would have a purified mind. However there is

> Prarabda!!!!!!!!!Again that is why -------'The teaching of Silence'.

> I'm sorry if this upsets you Chris or anybody else, but it is my

> prarabda to write it and yours to read it.......Love and ONS...Tony.

>

> /join

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Sri Ramana

>

> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

>

> Links

>

> •

> /

>

> •

>

> • Terms of

> Service.

>

Monsoonhouse Int.

Kovalam/Kerala

contact: christianecameron

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January 6, 2005

Hi Tony,

I didn't know that exchanging views here is a ball game. Indeed, there