Mantra, power, and TM

[Guest guest]

Hello Jerry and everyone,

 

Jerry said:

 

Give mantras that when uttered rip one apart. Shake foundations. Rock

your world. Strip away false living. Then there's no question of

surrender. You ain't asking whether you should surrender. You are

surrendering for survival.

 

The so-called 'real' mantra may be given by an outer or the inner

Guru. It is not intended for calm meditation. It's intent is

devastation. Some may explain the 'real' mantra with the Kundalini

model.

 

Well, I still wouldn't say one thing is superior or inferior to

another. The moment is perfect. There's no reason to do anything other

than this. I'm just talking about experiences and comparing them.

I'm prattling. I'm not giving advice. If one person is dealing with TM

and other with a mantra of power, one is not superior or inferior to

the other. The moment is everything and all talk is prattle. No one

has to do or experience anything. Stillness!

 

Jill:

Thank you Jerry for this post. I had started a long post, the purpose of which

was to address the idea of the inherent power of mantra. In your earlier post,

Jerry, it sounded like you were categorizing whole role of mantra as the sort of

ambient background music of the spiritual life, an innocuous and mild activity,

and as that didn't tally with my experience I wanted to something about it,

along the lines of what you are saying above.

 

The relevant point of the post I was writing is that for me it was using the TM

practice that opened kundalini, and that opening was a major, foundation

shaking, world-rocking, survival-surrendering experience that utterly shook my

entire life down to its core overnight, and kept me on a tightrope or

rollercoaster of attentive surrender for the ensuing years. Throuh that I did

learn to respect and view mantra in a very different way.

 

Previous to that I had viewed my TM practice as a very nice, very useful, and

very innocent, gentle practice. I had no idea of the power of mantra. After

kundalini, the power of mantra became very apparent. Little bits of some mantra

use could put me completely out of my head. Mantras, known and 'unknown',

would sometimes 'appear' and practice themselves, repeating in an inner way for

hours. The TM mantra I used became a constant, self repeating mantra for hours

a day and also at night, for a few years after k opened. The mantra OM began to

roar spontaneously, automatically, in wide waves in the head for a few hours a

day in the first years of kundalini. (At least it gave me something to pay

attention to during long faculty meetings.) Listening to cds with mantra

repetition causes huge amounts of kundalini activiy for me and sometimes loss of

outward consciousness. ( I used to paint in my studio or cook to Krishna Das but

I kept falling down, coming back to find the dog licking me or the soup burnt.)

One other odd thing that happened was that after a few years of kundalini

activity, when I was around someone who practiced mantra meditation, I could

'see' or hear their mantra when they were around. I have a friend who taught TM

at one time. I said, you have all these mantras in your heart area, and I told

him what they were. He was kind of uncomfortable but said, oh, those are the TM

mantras.

 

I have experimented a lot with different kinds of mantra use. Linda C. on this

list is very knowledgeable about mantras and over the past few years has given

me some very helpful mantras to keep kundalini activity more manageable. I had

to pretty much stop practicing TM after the onset of k because it was burning me

up; the body and mind were not strong enough to handle the too-rapid flow of

shakti, the onslaught of unconscious contents spilling into consciousness. So

my experience with TM is somewhat the opposite of what Jerr is saying. I became

surprised that this practice does not come with some warning for this potential

outcome, or some system of support for those who experience this. I have also

asked myself many times if this practice has flaws that create kundalini

awakenings in individuals who aren't prepared for them. I don't know the

answers to these questions at all. Some of my ambivalence about the TM

organization comes from the fact that it is difficult to find anyone in the

organization, except a few in leadership positions, who will discuss these

things, and I have been asked by a few less confident individuals within the

organization to please not discuss my experiences with other meditators. Yet I

have met several people in the organization who have been relentlessly helpful

and supportive. I really don't think there is a decision or commitment within

the TM organization to deny or sweep under the rug the very challenging

kundalini experiences that the TM practice can lead to, but there is a

discomfort with this area in the organization, that many TM practitioners have

experienced when searching for answers to their k experiences through the

organization. Jiva, perhaps this is an area you can shed some light on.

 

Peace to all,

 

Jill

 

 

>

>>> umbada 02/01/02 19:51 PM >>>

[Guest guest]

Jill,

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I still remember when I received my

mantra from my teacher. That a mantra is pregnant with Shakti (power) is

well known in the yogic traditions. Mantra practice is one way to awaken the

Kundalini Shakti among others. Usually mantras are used consciously with a

full feeling and grasp for their meaning. TM emphasizes the repetition of

the mantra with a focus on the sound only it seems.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

Jill Eggers [eggersj]

Saturday, February 02, 2002 6:45 PM

Mantra, power, and TM

 

Hello Jerry and everyone,

 

Jerry said:

 

Give mantras that when uttered rip one apart. Shake foundations. Rock

your world. Strip away false living. Then there's no question of

surrender. You ain't asking whether you should surrender. You are

surrendering for survival.

 

The so-called 'real' mantra may be given by an outer or the inner

Guru. It is not intended for calm meditation. It's intent is

devastation. Some may explain the 'real' mantra with the Kundalini

model.

 

Well, I still wouldn't say one thing is superior or inferior to

another. The moment is perfect. There's no reason to do anything other

than this. I'm just talking about experiences and comparing them.

I'm prattling. I'm not giving advice. If one person is dealing with TM

and other with a mantra of power, one is not superior or inferior to

the other. The moment is everything and all talk is prattle. No one

has to do or experience anything. Stillness!

 

Jill:

Thank you Jerry for this post. I had started a long post, the purpose of

which was to address the idea of the inherent power of mantra. In your

earlier post, Jerry, it sounded like you were categorizing whole role of

mantra as the sort of ambient background music of the spiritual life, an

innocuous and mild activity, and as that didn't tally with my experience I

wanted to something about it, along the lines of what you are saying above.

 

The relevant point of the post I was writing is that for me it was using the

TM practice that opened kundalini, and that opening was a major, foundation

shaking, world-rocking, survival-surrendering experience that utterly shook

my entire life down to its core overnight, and kept me on a tightrope or

rollercoaster of attentive surrender for the ensuing years. Throuh that I

did learn to respect and view mantra in a very different way.

 

Previous to that I had viewed my TM practice as a very nice, very useful,

and very innocent, gentle practice. I had no idea of the power of mantra.

After kundalini, the power of mantra became very apparent. Little bits of

some mantra use could put me completely out of my head. Mantras, known and

'unknown', would sometimes 'appear' and practice themselves, repeating in

an inner way for hours. The TM mantra I used became a constant, self

repeating mantra for hours a day and also at night, for a few years after k

opened. The mantra OM began to roar spontaneously, automatically, in wide

waves in the head for a few hours a day in the first years of kundalini.

(At least it gave me something to pay attention to during long faculty

meetings.) Listening to cds with mantra repetition causes huge amounts of

kundalini activiy for me and sometimes loss of outward consciousness. ( I

used to paint in my studio or cook to Krishna Das but I kept falling down,

coming back to find the dog licking me or the soup burnt.) One other odd

thing that happened was that after a few years of kundalini activity, when I

was around someone who practiced mantra meditation, I could 'see' or hear

their mantra when they were around. I have a friend who taught TM at one

time. I said, you have all these mantras in your heart area, and I told him

what they were. He was kind of uncomfortable but said, oh, those are the TM

mantras.

 

I have experimented a lot with different kinds of mantra use. Linda C. on

this list is very knowledgeable about mantras and over the past few years

has given me some very helpful mantras to keep kundalini activity more

manageable. I had to pretty much stop practicing TM after the onset of k

because it was burning me up; the body and mind were not strong enough to

handle the too-rapid flow of shakti, the onslaught of unconscious contents

spilling into consciousness. So my experience with TM is somewhat the

opposite of what Jerr is saying. I became surprised that this practice does

not come with some warning for this potential outcome, or some system of

support for those who experience this. I have also asked myself many times

if this practice has flaws that create kundalini awakenings in individuals

who aren't prepared for them. I don't know the answers to these questions

at all. Some of my ambivalence about the TM organization comes from the

fact that it is difficult to find anyone in the organization, except a few

in leadership positions, who will discuss these things, and I have been

asked by a few less confident individuals within the organization to please

not discuss my experiences with other meditators. Yet I have met several

people in the organization who have been relentlessly helpful and

supportive. I really don't think there is a decision or commitment within

the TM organization to deny or sweep under the rug the very challenging

kundalini experiences that the TM practice can lead to, but there is a

discomfort with this area in the organization, that many TM practitioners

have experienced when searching for answers to their k experiences through

the organization. Jiva, perhaps this is an area you can shed some light on.

 

Peace to all,

 

Jill

 

 

>

>>> umbada 02/01/02 19:51 PM >>>

 

 

 

/join

 

 

 

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

One other odd thing that happened was that after a few years of

kundalini activity, when I was around someone who practiced mantra

meditation, I could 'see' or hear their mantra when they were

around. I have a friend who taught TM at one time. I said, you have

all these mantras in your heart area, and I told him what they were.

He was kind of uncomfortable but said, oh, those are the TM mantras.

 

l always enjoy hearing about your experiences, Jill -- never

heard about these before! Your observations are worthwhile and never

fail to interest me. Thank you and take care.

jerry

[Guest guest]

Harsha & Friends,

 

I think that TM doesn't teach much about the mantra because they are

stuck between the "rock and a hard place" of teaching a

vedic "science", while trying to avoid the religious implications of

explaining the Gods and Goddesses of "Hinduism", along with their

respective seed syllables and mantras. They didn't want to get

into "The Mantra is the deity", or "the body of the deity"...in fact,

they didn't want to get into the diety aspect of the game at all, at

least not in public presentation.

 

They explicitly stated to America and the West that they hadn't come

to teach a religion, but only a "scientific technique". To learn more

about mantra and TM, at least back in the late 60's and early 70's,

you had to commit yourself to teacher training and 3-6 months in

Switzerland.

 

Of course, as you know, all the "secret" TM mantras are published and

available to anyone that diligently seeks them out. My own mantra was

one of those connected with Lakshmi, which is not very surprising

given that it was selected for me by a musician/friend, who had

become a non-practicing teacher/initiator primarily to deepen his own

practice and learn more about what he was engaged in. He only

initiated me because I wouldn't accept it from anybody else. I

trusted him, so he made an exception and initiated me. I bet I'm one

of the only people initiated into TM whose initiator had to read the

whole ceremony from his old crumpled teacher training notes.

 

yours in the bonds,

eric

 

PS. Unlike Jill my practice didn't expand into K awakening. I had to

go to Baba Muktananda for that.

 

 

, "Harsha" wrote:

> Jill,

>

> Thank you for sharing your experiences. I still remember when I

received my

> mantra from my teacher. That a mantra is pregnant with Shakti

(power) is

> well known in the yogic traditions. Mantra practice is one way to

awaken the

> Kundalini Shakti among others. Usually mantras are used consciously

with a

> full feeling and grasp for their meaning. TM emphasizes the

repetition of

> the mantra with a focus on the sound only it seems.

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

>

>

>

> Jill Eggers [eggersj@g...]

> Saturday, February 02, 2002 6:45 PM

>

> Mantra, power, and TM

>

> Hello Jerry and everyone,

>

> Jerry said:

>

> Give mantras that when uttered rip one apart. Shake foundations.

Rock

> your world. Strip away false living. Then there's no question of

> surrender. You ain't asking whether you should surrender. You are

> surrendering for survival.

>

> The so-called 'real' mantra may be given by an outer or the inner

> Guru. It is not intended for calm meditation. It's intent is

> devastation. Some may explain the 'real' mantra with the Kundalini

> model.

>

> Well, I still wouldn't say one thing is superior or inferior to

> another. The moment is perfect. There's no reason to do anything

other

> than this. I'm just talking about experiences and comparing them.

> I'm prattling. I'm not giving advice. If one person is dealing

with TM

> and other with a mantra of power, one is not superior or inferior

to

> the other. The moment is everything and all talk is prattle. No one

> has to do or experience anything. Stillness!

>

> Jill:

> Thank you Jerry for this post. I had started a long post, the

purpose of

> which was to address the idea of the inherent power of mantra. In

your

> earlier post, Jerry, it sounded like you were categorizing whole

role of

> mantra as the sort of ambient background music of the spiritual

life, an

> innocuous and mild activity, and as that didn't tally with my

experience I

> wanted to something about it, along the lines of what you are

saying above.

>

> The relevant point of the post I was writing is that for me it was

using the

> TM practice that opened kundalini, and that opening was a major,

foundation

> shaking, world-rocking, survival-surrendering experience that

utterly shook

> my entire life down to its core overnight, and kept me on a

tightrope or

> rollercoaster of attentive surrender for the ensuing years. Throuh

that I

> did learn to respect and view mantra in a very different way.

>

> Previous to that I had viewed my TM practice as a very nice, very

useful,

> and very innocent, gentle practice. I had no idea of the power of

mantra.

> After kundalini, the power of mantra became very apparent. Little

bits of

> some mantra use could put me completely out of my head. Mantras,

known and

> 'unknown', would sometimes 'appear' and practice themselves,

repeating in

> an inner way for hours. The TM mantra I used became a constant,

self

> repeating mantra for hours a day and also at night, for a few years

after k

> opened. The mantra OM began to roar spontaneously, automatically,

in wide

> waves in the head for a few hours a day in the first years of

kundalini.

> (At least it gave me something to pay attention to during long

faculty

> meetings.) Listening to cds with mantra repetition causes huge

amounts of

> kundalini activiy for me and sometimes loss of outward

consciousness. ( I

> used to paint in my studio or cook to Krishna Das but I kept

falling down,

> coming back to find the dog licking me or the soup burnt.) One

other odd

> thing that happened was that after a few years of kundalini

activity, when I

> was around someone who practiced mantra meditation, I could 'see'

or hear

> their mantra when they were around. I have a friend who taught TM

at one

> time. I said, you have all these mantras in your heart area, and I

told him

> what they were. He was kind of uncomfortable but said, oh, those

are the TM

> mantras.

>

> I have experimented a lot with different kinds of mantra use.

Linda C. on

> this list is very knowledgeable about mantras and over the past few

years

> has given me some very helpful mantras to keep kundalini activity

more

> manageable. I had to pretty much stop practicing TM after the

onset of k

> because it was burning me up; the body and mind were not strong

enough to

> handle the too-rapid flow of shakti, the onslaught of unconscious

contents

> spilling into consciousness. So my experience with TM is somewhat

the

> opposite of what Jerr is saying. I became surprised that this

practice does

> not come with some warning for this potential outcome, or some

system of

> support for those who experience this. I have also asked myself

many times

> if this practice has flaws that create kundalini awakenings in

individuals

> who aren't prepared for them. I don't know the answers to these

questions

> at all. Some of my ambivalence about the TM organization comes

from the

> fact that it is difficult to find anyone in the organization,

except a few

> in leadership positions, who will discuss these things, and I have

been

> asked by a few less confident individuals within the organization

to please

> not discuss my experiences with other meditators. Yet I have met

several

> people in the organization who have been relentlessly helpful and

> supportive. I really don't think there is a decision or commitment

within

> the TM organization to deny or sweep under the rug the very

challenging

> kundalini experiences that the TM practice can lead to, but there

is a

> discomfort with this area in the organization, that many TM

practitioners

> have experienced when searching for answers to their k experiences

through

> the organization. Jiva, perhaps this is an area you can shed some

light on.

>

> Peace to all,

>

> Jill

>

>

>

> >

>

> >>> umbada@n... 02/01/02 19:51 PM >>>

>

>

>

> /join

>

>

>

>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

subside

> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than

> the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness.

> Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home.

Home is

> where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of

Eternal

> Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

spontaneously

> arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

 

[vishnu200653 0]

congrats first for the development. I also have expirienced all tis bt my great master was laways with me everytime.Later he told me not to get into all this as self-realisation and infinite joy was possible without tis also. Although this path also endows one with a number of divine powers which may or may not manifest completely. U must read Kundalini books by Dr. Narayan Dutt Srimali...the master of this yoga. Others I know are avdhoot baba sivanand, Asaram bapuji -his disciple Dr. Premji(really great one-a discreet realised soul n living legend), and Siddhanathji maharaj.

 

If you find the relevant master and channelise this under the guidance, u can get both divine powers + the ultimate bliss of self-realisation. So, my best wishes for u..my dear pious soul. ALso, its for sure this is not your first birth when u are practising this.....u can see this ur self while meditating....