tattvadarshi

TROUBLE IN THE HOLY LAND

Palestinian women, girls

killed for family 'honor'

Report: Fathers, brothers, sons murder scores of innocent females each year to avert shame

 

--

Posted: May 6, 2003

1:00 a.m. Eastern

 

 

 

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

 

Each year, dozens and probably hundreds of brutal "honor killings" of Palestinian women and girls – most of whom are virtually blameless – go unreported, according to an anthropologist's recent study.

 

In a story for World and I magazine, James Emery says women in the communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel and Jordan are killed by male kinsmen in an attempt to protect the reputations of their families.

 

Emery says the women "are murdered in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers."

 

Most occur among Muslims in poor, rural tribal areas or among uneducated urban dwellers, he says, although the practice is not explicitly condoned by the Islamic holy book, the Quran.

 

In the feudal, patriarchal societies of the Middle East, writes Emery, "honor is based on what men feel is important, and reputation is everything."

 

"Unfortunately," he says, "thousands of women have been killed in the name of honor because imagination and rumors are as important as actions and events."

 

When a girl's chastity is in question, he says, her family feels the shame, even if she is raped or the rumors prove unsubstantiated.

 

"A woman shamed is like rotting flesh," a Palestinian merchant told Emery. "If it is not cut away, it will consume the body. What I mean is the whole family will be tainted if she is not killed."

 

Woman always blamed

 

Emery says the reasons for honor killings include allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, for refusing an arranged marriage or attempting to obtain a divorce, or simply for talking with a man. The murders are carried out by fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles, cousins or sons.

 

Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.

 

"The issue of consent is irrelevant when it comes to honor killings," says Marsha Freeman, director of the International Women's Rights Action Watch. "It has to do with the woman being defiled. It completely objectifies the woman as being about her sexuality and purity. It makes her not human."

 

Women's groups and human-rights organizations campaigning to eliminate honor killings are hindered by the lack of reliable statistics.

 

Under the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, at least 25 "official" honor killings occur each year, says Emery, but the actual number of deaths is much higher.

 

Many murders are ruled an accident, suicide, or family dispute, if they're reported at all, he says: "Police and government officials are often bribed to ignore crimes and hinder investigations. A woman beaten, burned, strangled, shot, or stabbed to death is often ruled a suicide, even when there are multiple wounds."

 

Because honor killings are accorded special status, murderers serve little or no jail time, the anthropologist notes. Some men convicted of premeditated murder serve as little as three months and are treated as celebrities by family and friends upon release.

 

Emery says in communities where the crime is prosecuted, teen-age brothers are encouraged to kill their sisters because the consequences will be less severe due to their age. Relatives of the victims, including mothers and sisters, often defend the killings and occasionally help set them up.

 

"The brutality of the attacks is shocking," he says, recalling the story of an 18-year-old Palestinian man who stabbed his teen-age sister 40 times because of a rumor she was involved in an extramarital affair.

 

"The family thanked God for her death," Emery says. "In an adjacent neighborhood, a 16-year-old boy killed his divorced mother, stabbing her repeatedly as he chased her into the street."

 

According to Emery, some Palestinian women who face a loss of honor and certain death have been offered a chance "to die with dignity" by strapping on explosives and killing Israelis.

 

Emery has done extensive research in Palestinian communities and has lived and traveled overseas for a number of years. He is an expert witness on Asian and Arab culture in civil and criminal cases and a lecturer on Middle Eastern terrorism.

 

He says the murder of females in the Middle East is an ancient tradition that began prior to the arrival of Islam in A.D. 622. Arabs sometimes buried infant daughters to avoid the possibility they would later bring shame to the family, Emery notes.

 

 

 

 

http://www.sacreduniverse.com/

What is this source of this allegation?

Many of the readers of this board consider themselves Vaishnavas (or aspiring Vaishnavas). They should not forget the countless atrocities the Muslims committed against Hindus and specifically Vaishnavas in the history of Bharat. Many arca vigrahas were broken and many devotees were murdered. And as you all know, the deities established in Vrindaban by the Goswamis had to be moved to Jaipur because of the Muslims.

 

But this is not just an item of history. The fanatic, fundamentalist Muslims of the present day have this same anti-Vaishnava (as well as anti-Christian and anti-Jew) fervor. If you are a devotee, know that the fundamentalsit Muslim wants you to either convert or die, and wants to defile everything you cherish as holy.

 

Sadaam himself is not known to be a strict Muslim, but in his case he finds it expedient to finance and support fundamentalist Muslims for his own purposes.

 

Finally, from a neutral, moral perspective, Sadaam is well known to be a mass murderer who has committed unspeakable atrocities: mass murder of Kurds in the thousands through poison gas, rape squads to torment the families of those who may have contemplated dissent, intimidation of fathers by blinding their children, and on and on.

 

An enlightened Vaishnava may very well welcome reasonably minded Muslims with the understanding that we are all spirit souls and that Lord Krishna is the God of all. But the same neutrality should not be maintained towards the virulent, violent, very widespread, and very influential Muslim fanatics. They are, to put it simply, DEMONS.

Question about dinosaurs

 

Q: Did dinosaurs really exist? In which yuga did they live? Is

the Earth same after a yuga ends and a new one starts? Is

there a destruction?

A: Sure they did. Can you imagine a hoax of such a colossal

dimension? Also the lore from all over the world knows about

some kind of big animals like dragons.

As far as I know they are found on all continents. Which yuga

is hard to say but in the Bhagavatam there is at least one

possible allusion to them (8.10.10-12). There is probably more

in other Puranas. During my study of North American Native

lore I found a hint in Ojibwa tribe legends that their

predecessors lived together with huge animals which were

destroyed by a comet.

Destructions (pralaya) of various dimensions happen regularly,

after every maha-yuga, manvantara, kalpa and dvi-parardha

(Brahma's life span) and at some special occasions. See SB

8.24 (Matsya-lila). About how Earth changes after each

particular pralaya there is not much said in sastra as far as

I know.

Q: Srila Prabhupada doubted that dinosaurs ever existed,

whereas much evidence is available to at least support the

view that dinosaurs did once exist on this planet. He also

stated that there was no such thing as 'extinction' of

species. Please elucidate.

A: Below you'll find compilation of everything recorded what

Srila Prabhupada said about the dinosaurs. I will now try to

comment on it a little bit.

First, he didn't deny their existence. He mentioned that the

existence of big forms of animals is recorded in the Vedas

(super-eagles - Srimad Bhagavatam 5.23.3, timingila

super-whales - SB 8.7.18, 8.10.10-12, 10.1.5-7). SB 8.10.10-12

mentions "big lizards" (whatever they are). The Vedas also

mention that with the progression of time the life forms

become smaller.

In general he didn't consider the matter of their existence or

nonexistence very important. He repeatedly stressed that our

sense perception is imperfect and that there are many life

forms which we don't know about.

This is very true. Humans actually know quite a small portion

of the land on this Earth, what to speak of the sea. Every

year there are many "new" organisms discovered and some of

them are quite big (reptiles, fish, birds, mammals). Just in

this century there have been discovered many big animals like

a species of jungle hog from Vietnam, a species of cat from

Ryu-kyu archipelago, a big species of shark from the Hawaii

islands, the onza (an animal from Mexico resembling the puma),

the giant octopus from the ocean abysses around Bahamas, giant

species of calmars etc.

Srila Prabhupada also said that no species of life becomes

extinct.

It is important to remember that the Vedic definition of

species is different from the modern one. The Vedas mention

8,400,000 species of life and all of them are repeatedly

created after every partial or total cosmic devastation.

Regarding the survival of the "living fossils" there is an

example of the Latimeria fish which exactly resembles the rock

imprints of the fossil Devonian species etc.

To study the possibility of existence of such animals a group

of scientists (mostly biologists) formed a new scientific

discipline called a cryptozoology. They have their regular

meetings, they organize expeditions to the remote corners of

the world and they publish the Journal of Cryptozoology in

which they discuss the existence of unknown (mainly big) life

forms from all over the world whose existence is supported by

ancient writings, local lore and both native and non-native

witnesses (soldiers, tourists, scientists etc.) There are also

websites dedicated to this field of study.

On their "wanted" list there are several species of hominids

from all over the world (known locally as yetti, almas,

sasquatch, big foot etc.), great dangerous cats of an

above-lion size from the jungles of equatorial Africa (some of

them with huge fangs), great species of reptiles or dinosaurs

from the oceans and lakes (e.g. Loch Ness in Scotland, Lake

Champlain in Canada, etc.) and the jungles (Africa, South

America), flying dinosaurs resembling Pteranodon and other

types (Zaire, Southwest USA), and many other.

Because this type of research, if successful, can seriously

damage the accepted paradigms of Darwinian evolution of

species, the establishment science views it with incredulity

and suspicion. Therefore the cryptozoology is a "marginal"

science.

Vaisnava scientists, on the other hand, use this type of

evidence to show that the Vedic version is correct. The book

Forbidden Archaeology by Richard Thompson (Sadaputa Das) and

Michael Cremo (Drutakarma Das) from the Bhaktivedanta

Institute was a breakthrough in this regard. If you have some

questions for our scientists write to Bhaktivedanta Institute

<bvi@afn.org>.

 

 

 

Room Conversation, Hyderabad, April 14, 1975

750414RC.HYD

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, the other day we were talking about

proving different assumptions through archeological findings.

Prabhupada: That is also bogus. Archeological findings is

bogus.

Brahmananda: But it seems that big skeletons of all these big

dinosaurs...

Prabhupada: That we have already information. We have got

timingila. Just like big house. They can swallow up, what is

called?

Devotee: Whale. Whale.

Prabhupada: Whale (indistinct).

Tamala Krsna: No but these dinosaurs move on the land. They're

not fish. And they're very big and we have information...

Prabhupada: So what is to you? You are also a created being.

He's also created being. That's the (indistinct). You are not

creator of the (indistinct)

Tamala Krsna: But you say that there was more intelligent life

previously, whereas we see these dinosaurs were previously.

Prabhupada: But you do not see, you simply imagine.

Tamala Krsna: No. We have the skeletons.

Devotee: We have the bones, the bones of animals.

Prabhupada: But that's all right. There was a big animal,

that's all. Just like you are a foolish animal, so there was a

big animal. What is the difference? They are animals.

Tamala Krsna: But we have skeletons showing the men at that

time also and their brains were very tiny.

Prabhupada: That you say. But I don't believe it. I have not

seen.

Morning Walk, Los Angeles, June 8, 1976

760608MW.LA

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, I was once told by some devotees

that you had said in some previous age of Kali, the dinosaurs,

gigantic animals, were on the earth.

Prabhupada: I said?

Ramesvara: They say that you said. (laughs)

Prabhupada: (laughs) I never said. I never bother with these

nonsense things.

Ramesvara: They have got so many bones in the museums showing

these gigantic animals.

Prabhupada: Not gigantic. There are bones. But that animal is

still there, whalefish.

Ramesvara: Whalefish.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Very big body.

Ramesvara: Some have become extinct.

Prabhupada: Why they should be extinct?

Hrdayananda: No longer on the earth.

Ramesvara: No longer on this planet.

Prabhupada: (too much noise) Not necessarily. They are within

the ocean.

Hari-sauri: No, other animals.

Prabhupada: What other animals?

Ramesvara: Those gigantic, they called them...

Hrdayananda: Brontosaurus.

Ramesvara: Tyrannosaurus.

Gigantic animals, they say are meat-eaters.

Hrdayananda: Dinosaurus.

Hari-sauri: Tetrasaurus.

Prabhupada: Another imagination. These are actual facts.(?)

Hari-sauri: They just made up different compositions of bones

and then drew some outlines on them.

Prabhupada: Yes. They are imagination.

Hari-sauri: But you said in Hawaii though that there are some

animals that are as big as skyscrapers?

Prabhupada: Yes, these are birds. It is far from this earth

though. They travel from one planet to another.

Ramesvara: So these bones that they have found of these

gigantic animals, they were all living underneath the water.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: Not on the land.

Prabhupada: Maybe. But the list is there: jalaja nava-laksani.

There are 900,000 different forms, and how many we have seen?

There is information in the sastra. Pasavas trimsal-laksani.

Three million different types of animals.

Hari-sauri: We've seen a few hundred at most.

Prabhupada: That's all. (laughs) That is also doubtful.

Slideshow Discussion, Washington D.C., July 3, 1976

760703SS.WDC

Svarupa Damodara: Do we know that in detail, Srila Prabhupada?

What type of species are extinct? Not all the species extinct.

As it is during Brahma's day, that partial annihilation,

devastation, now some species are extinct?

Prabhupada: No species extinct. What you are reading? This is

garbage.(?)

Svarupa Damodara: The physical forms.

Prabhupada: No, nothing is extinct. Everything is going on.

Svarupa Damodara: At that point, they are going to come up

with the point that "How about dinosaurs?" They are going to

ask like that.

Prabhupada: That is imagination, where is dinosaur finding.

Svarupa Damodara: They say they have all the bones.

Prabhupada: No, they are describing maybe another animal. That

is existing. That is Timingila, they can swallow up big, big

whale fishes. That big, bones, they are living still. Nothing

is extinct. They are already there.

Rupanuga: Did these dinosaurs exist, or is it just their

imagination?

Prabhupada: The big animal exists. I call it dinosaur or

finosaur, that is your choice. Big animals existing.

Timingila, I said the name, Timingila, still exist.

Rupanuga: Still exist.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are always existing. Water

elephants. There are elephants in water. Everything.

Rupanuga: So there is no such thing as extinction.

Prabhupada: No extinction, there is no question of extinction.

Rupanuga: If these animals were on this planet some millions

of years ago, they are still here, is that correct?

Prabhupada: Yes. What do you know what are there within the

water? You can take information from the sastras. It is not

possible for you to see and go into the water, how big, big

animals are there.

Hari-sauri: But it's possible that an animal may disappear

from one planet, but still be on another planet, though, like

that.

Prabhupada: No.

Hari-sauri: Because they claim that even within recorded

history...

Prabhupada: They claim everything. That is... There is no

question. Svarupa Damodara: (indistinct) fossil, they are

called fossil record. Prabhupada: That is another thing. You

can get a dead animal's body, but what is that?

Svarupa Damodara: They claim that many species are extinct.

Prabhupada: How they are extinct?

Hari-sauri: Well, like, they say that within modern history,

Prabhupada: First thing is they are all imperfect speculators.

So what is the value of their sport? We don't take any value

of it.

Rupanuga: They don't know where these animals are, that's all.

Prabhupada: They, simply like child, they are speculating. If

he's

imperfect, then what is the value of his speculation? There is

no value.

Svarupa Damodara: But then what happens at the time of partial

devastation? At the end of Manu, the partial devastation, what

happens to the species?

Prabhupada: Happens means these different ways become

destroyed, but again, during creation, they come in.

Morning Walk New York, July 12, 1976

760712MW.NY

Ramesvara: They are convinced that dinosaurs, these gigantic

animals, were living on this planet millions of years ago.

They found some bones, and they have created the form of the

animal body.

Tamala Krsna: Is it true that there were big dinosaur bodies?

Prabhupada: If they were, it is still now.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, wow.

Prabhupada: We don't say it is extinct.

Tamala Krsna: But you've explained that even if not here then

it must be on another planet.

Prabhupada: Yes, another. This planet, what you have seen?

Ramesvara: That's the point, what we have seen about this

planet? Devotee (1): Could still be here. They found one in,

where is that? In Ireland?

Prabhupada: Cannot be extinct, that is not possible.

Devotee (1): In that lake?

Tamala Krsna: But do you think they were on this planet?

Prabhupada: No, no, may be on this planet, but it doesn't

matter that it is extinct. You have not seen.

Tamala Krsna: No, that's a fact.

Ramesvara: Their idea is that at that time man was living in

the form of half monkey, half man in a cave, and gradually he

evolved to become more civilized.

Prabhupada: That is still there. Kinnaras. Kinnaras means it

is

doubtful whether he is man or monkey.

Tamala Krsna: Wow.

Prabhupada: There is a Kinnara-loka. Kimpurusa. Kinnara. They

are still existing. It is not that they are finished.

Hari-sauri: I was reading a magazine when we were on the

plane, and it was describing this type of monkey man, that

they are being called, they existed in snow wastes.

Prabhupada: Or what is called? The big...?

Tamala Krsna: Orangutan, gorilla.

Prabhupada: Gorilla, they are like men.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, they are. Very much like men. We see them

in the zoo.

Prabhupada: They have got their senses like men.

Hari-sauri: There's another species they call the Yetti. They

say it exists in the Himalayan regions. But they've not been

able to capture one because, uh... But there's been many

citings and reportings of it.

 

 

 

Q. Thanks for the mail, it was really interesting. But still I

found it very confusing, it seems to me that Srila Prabhupada

was contradicting himself (first saying that it's not possible

that some species might be extinct here and exist on other

planets and then saying that it's possible) and he didn't

really answer those questions, but pushed them away and

started putting down Western scientists. So my desire to know

about it is not yet satisfied.

A: This is a bit complex issue to deal with as there is really

not much said in the sastras about the dinos. Sastras, our

main reference, are not to be used as scientific

encyclopedias. Their main point is the spiritual knowledge.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada really contradicted himself -

he never said any species become extinct. He stressed that the

exploration of the Earth is far from being complete so no one

can say that some species 'extinct' in one place can't survive

in another place (or a planet for that matter).

The nature of these conversation was pretty informal and

depended a lot on the context (which disciples were present

etc.). SP sometimes sounded harsh to reprimand his disciples

to disentangle them from their conditioning. The point is that

this is guru's business. The outsiders may consider it

improper or dogmatic but they are in a different position as

they didn't accepted the discipleship. With them therefore SP

dealt in a different way.

Srila Prabhupada was not a scientist and thus didn't feel like

getting into these matters too much ('pushing them away' if

you wish). He many times said that he knows nothing about the

western science but that he can challenge it on the most

important point: the origin of life (from life, not from

matter). If the 'life from matter' theory is disproved the

whole structure built on it will crumble. SP didn't like the

arrogance of the modern scientists which is completely against

the Vedic approach where knowledge leads to humility and

wanted to expose them as ignorant according to the Vedic

standard ('putting them down'). On the other hand he

appreciated those few of modern scientists who actually took

this humble stance (like Einstein).

Ultimately he was not attacking science to becomes famous, to

feel superior or for fun. He worried about the people who

believe it unconditionally and are stuck in the materialistic

way of life which aggravates their suffering. Thus he wanted

them to be freed from their blind faith in science which leads

them on the road to hell (as Chris Rhea sings).

 

 

© 2001 - 2003 VEDA - Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, authors and Jan

Mares

A Lebanese Shi'ite Muslim mother helps her son beat himself with a sword during a ceremony of Ashoura held in Nabatiyeh, March 13, 2003. Shiites in Lebanon commemorate the killing of Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Mohammed, by his rival over 1,400 years ago. More than 150,000 Lebanese packed the streets of Beirut's southern suburbs on Thursday, chanting 'Death to America,death to Israel,' in a mass rally called by Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group. REUTERS/Jamal Saidi

Shiite Muslim men cut their heads with swords during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in the southern Lebanese town of Nabatiyeh, on Thursday March 13, 2003. Hundreds of Shiites in south Lebanon marked the 7th century killing of their most revered saint Imam Hussein, by slashing their heads with blades on the occasion known as Ashoura. Al Hussein was a grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed and is a symbol of martydrom for Shiite Muslims. (AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari)

 

I don't know if there is such a being as Allah. If he/it exists, he/it may be a Jinn or some other sort of demon. But Allah is not Krishna. Allah is not Rama. Allah is not Yahweh. Allah is not God.

Vaisnavas (and many Hindus) reject the idea that there are multiple gods. When we speak loosely of "gods" and "goddesses" we really mean DEMIGODS who are simply non-terrestrial created entities many of whom have special powers or duties.

 

But don't Muslims accept the existence of Jinn, who are supernatural created beings? They would appear to correspond to Vedic asuras.

 

 

Should Islam be considered religion in the mode of ignorance? I ask this because many of the edicts in the Koran and in the Hadith (the life of Muhammed) call for the killing of non-Muslims.

 

Craig Winn has studied Islam extensively and says that in order for a Muslim to be a good person he has to be a "bad Muslim." In other words, peaceful, tolerant, or enlightened Muslims are those who deviate from the pure Islamic teachings. People like Osama bin Laden and other Islamic fanatics are the real followers of the Islamic path.

 

http://www.teawithterrorists.com

Does this mean there is no offense in cremating the body of an advanced devotee?

To your knowledge are there any Vaisnavas who acknowledge the existence of chakras (such as the anja, or "third eye", chakra)? Also, what authentic sastras deal with this subject?

How about Balarama? I heard somewhere that he produced Sesa Naga from His mouth and flew with Him back to the spiritual world.

For a faithful follower of vedic spirituality, sastra is never to be considered wrong. It is regarded as apauruseya, of divine origin. What it means for the sadhu and guru to serve as a check on the sastra is that they can prevent misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the words of the sastra. Sometimes the meaning of the sastra may be difficult to understand or apply. Also, there may be apparent contradictions between different sastras. Guru and sadhu can resolve these seeming discrepancies.

There are diverse educational opportunities for devotee children here, ranging from traditional asrama (teenage girls only) to Vaishnava day schools to a government funded secularistic charter school staffed by devotees. There is also "organized" as well as traditional homeschooling.

 

In addition to the above, we have a professionally staffed child protection agency.

 

General New Raman Reti Info:

http://www.afn.org/~iskcon/

 

Vaishnava Academy for Girls

http://www.vaishnavagirls.com

 

Child Protection Office

www.APVC.org

 

New Raman Reti Day School

386-462-2886

 

Alachua Learning Center (Charter School)

386-418-2080

 

Older Boys Day School

Mrkanda108@aol.com

 

The Children of Krishna foundation is also located here. It is specifically directed to assisting gurukula alumni:

www.childrenofkrishna.com

 

 

Hope this helps. Haribol.

Prabhupada has a distinctive understanding of the Aryans, and not all of it is “politically correct” by today’s standards.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught that:

1.“Aryan” means spiritually and culturally advanced.

2.At the present time, anyone who acquires the appropriate qualities is an Aryan.

3.At a certain period of history the quality of being an Aryan was closely linked to a specific ethnic cluster: Indo-European.

4.Some Aryans migrated into India, some into Europe.

5.Present day whites and lighter-skinned, upper-caste Indians are descendants of the ancient Aryans, namely, the Indo-Europeans.

6.The Aryan ethnic stock is distinct from the Dravidian.

 

[see below for references.]

 

In addition, Prabhupada does not uphold the invasion theory, but instead supports the notion of migration. His views are NOT racist, because he maintains that anyone can become an Aryan in quality. It is true he says certain spiritual attributes historically were manifest more prominently by certain ethnicities in contrast to others. Also, he regards some present day peoples as in general having a greater material propensity for spiritual advancement (i.e., propensity for vedic spiritual culture) than others. But inasmuch as this propensity is merely material, Prabhupada always held that anyone, regardless of race or ethnicity, could become an Aryan in quality.

 

The above statements are backed by the following citations (in no particular order):

 

 

The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg 2.2

 

 

The association of devotees (arya-sangama) is the most important factor in this world. The word arya refers to those who are advancing spiritually. In the history of the human race, the Aryan family is considered to be the most elevated community in the world because it adopts the Vedic civilization. The Aryan family is distributed all over the world and is known as Indo-Aryan. In prehistoric days all of the members of the Aryan family followed the Vedic principles, and therefore they became spiritually advanced. The kings, known as rajarsis, were so perfectly educated as ksatriyas, or protectors of the citizens, and so greatly advanced in spiritual life, that there was not a bit of trouble for the citizens.

The glorification of the Supreme Lord can be very much appreciated by the Aryan family. Although there is no bar for others, the members of the Aryan family very quickly catch the essence of spiritual life. How is it that we are finding it very easy to spread Krsna consciousness among the Europeans and Americans? History reports that the Americans and Europeans proved their capability when they were anxious to expand colonization, but at the present time, being contaminated by the advancement of material science, their sons and grandsons are turning into reprobates. This is due to their having lost their original spiritual culture, which is Vedic civilization. Presently these descendants of the Aryan family are taking this Krsna consciousness movement very seriously. Others who are associating with them and hearing the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra from the lips of pure devotees are also becoming captivated by the transcendental vibration. Transcendental vibrations are very much effective when chanted among Aryans, but even though one does not belong to the Aryan family, he will become a Vaisnava simply by hearing the mantra because the vibration has great influence over everyone.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.20.26

 

 

Now, a civilized, real, advanced civilization, the Aryans... The Aryans are called advanced. The actual meaning of Aryan means advanced, according to Sanskrit. This is a... Aryan is not any, I mean to say, English word or Hindu or any other language. It is the Sanskrit word, Aryan. Aryan. The word comes from the arya, a-r-y-a, arya. Now it has become a common word, Aryan, but originally it is Sanskrit word. And arya means one who is advanced, or one who is civilized, one who knows, one who has knowledge. Then he is called arya. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find. When Arjuna declined to fight, Krsna condemned him, "Oh, you are just like talking like a non-Aryan, not Aryan."

So we all belong to the Aryan family. Historical reference is there, Indo-European family. So Aryan stock was on the central Asia. Some of them migrated to India. Some of them migrated to Europe. And from Europe you have come. So we belong to the Aryan family, but we have lost our knowledge. So we have become non-Aryan practically. Because we do not give importance to the spiritual side of life. The Aryan means one who gives importance to the spiritual side of life.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 10.4-5 -- New York, January 4, 1967

 

 

Yayati: The great emperor of the world and the original forefather of all great nations of the world who belong to the Aryan and Indo-European stock. He is the son of Maharaja Nabusa, and he became the emperor of the world due to his elder brother's becoming a great and liberated saintly mystic.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.12.24

 

 

If there is civilization, that is this Aryan civilization in India, Vedic civilization. Otherwise, throughout the whole world... These people were within Aryan civilization. Aryan, Iranian, their names are given. Up to Iran, their field(?). Europeans also, Indo-European. Gradually they declined. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is to make them civilized. Pascimera loka saba mudha anacara. They are all fools and misbehaved. Teach them this Krsna consciousness. They'll be happy. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That is our next step, how to make one civilization, Krsna conscious.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana

 

 

Human life is not in large quantity. Out of that, mostly they are uncivilized, and very few Aryan families. The Aryan family -- the Indo-European family, they are also Aryan -- they are very few. The Europeans, they belong to the Indo-European group. The Americans, they also come from Europe. So this group of human society is very few. There are other, many uncivilized groups. Therefore Vedanta says, atha atah: now you have got developed human form of life, civilized life, you have got nice arrangement for your comfortable life. Especially in America you have got all material comforts. You have got cars, you have got good road, nice food, nice building, nice dress, nice feature of your body. Everything God has given you very nice. The Vedanta advises, "Now you take to about the inquiry of Brahman." Athato brahma jijnasa.

This is applicable for everyone, civilized men. I don't speak of the Americans, in Europe, in Asia. Anywhere. Aryans means those who are advanced. Non-Aryans means those who are not ad... This is the Sanskrit meaning, arya.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture -- Seattle, October 7, 1968

 

 

 

So here it is said that vivasvan manave praha manur iksvakave 'bravit. First of all, this was spoken to sun-god Vivasvan, and Vivasvan spoke to his son Manu, and Manu spoke to his son Iksvaku. This Maharaja Iksvaku happened to be an ancient emperor on this planet, and in his dynasty Lord Ramacandra appeared, Maharaja Iksvaku. He is ksatriya. These are all ksatriya. Surya, Vivasvan is also ksatriya. There are two ksatriya families, one from the sun and one from the moon, candra-vamsa and surya-vamsa. They're existing. And the Indo-European stock, they are also coming from the ksatriyas. From the history of Mahabharata, we can understand the Aryan families who migrated to Europe, they also belonged to this surya-vamsa or candra-vamsa. Anyway, that is another department of knowledge. Here it is said that..., Krsna says that "I spoke this philosophy or this system or this doctrine of Bhagavad-gita, yoga."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.1 -- Montreal, August 24, 1968

 

 

Hamsaduta: It must be very difficult to get a birth in a civilized society.

Prabhupada: Yes. Certainly. Therefore it is said, labdhva sudurlabham. It is very rare, now, especially to take birth in India in the Vedic society. India means within this planet, the civilized Aryan family. Now Aryan families have degraded. Otherwise Aryan means progressive. So all over the world the Aryan families they have degraded. Otherwise the Vedic civilization was Aryan civilization.

Devotee: Some places they recognize that. When we went to one meeting in Bombay...

Prabhupada: The Europeans and Americans, they belong to Aryan family. They have lost their Vedic culture. Now it is being revived again.

Revatinandana: They came from those renegade kings that ran away from Parasurama?

Prabhupada: Yes, there are so many reasons.

Revatinandana: Is it also true that the Scandinavians come from... Kamsa-nisudana was telling me that the Scandinavians came from Skandha, god of war, and that these people were driven out of India by the Hindu society. They were worshipers of Skandha, and they took shelter in northern Europe?

Prabhupada: Maybe. Actually Aryan civilization was central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo-European stock that is called.

Revatinandana: Central Asia.

Prabhupada: Central Asia. Caucasian. Kasyapa Muni's place.

Hamsaduta: How come they're so white?

Prabhupada: The Aryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tan. Indians are tan but they are not black. But Aryans are all white. And the non-Aryans, they are called black. Yes.

Devotee: They use the term Caucasian to designate those persons who...

Prabhupada: Not only Europeans. The Kashmir side of this Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Punjab, they are all white.

Devotee: Caucasaus Mountains is near Afghanistan.

Prabhupada: Yes. All white. In Punjab, you'll find, they are as white as Europeans. Oh, yes. Kashmir.

Himavati: Also in Vrndavana (indistinct). And they're tall.

Prabhupada: Tall. So Aryan family, whole Aryans, they are white. And sudras are called krsna, krsna, black.

Revatinandana: But the sudras have handsome bodily features also. In Amritsar the people have, I think, handsome bodily features.

Prabhupada: Yes, Aryan family, the structure of body... From the... There is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have got forget all these material. We have to advance in Krsna consciousness. This is white skin... So you have all taken your bath? So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath.

Devotee: What to do about a massage?

Prabhupada: Do. Do it. (end)

Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.6 -- Sydney, February 17, 1973

 

 

Prabhupada: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have been mixed up with the Aryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you'll find many black.

Hari-sauri: Dravidian?

Prabhupada: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Aryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Aryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they will be fair complexion. Sudras, black. So if a brahmana becomes black, then he's not accepted as brahmana. Kala bahu (?). And if a sudra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure sudra. Although we do not take very, but, this brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and sudras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm)

Prabhupada has a distinctive understanding of the Aryans, and not all of it is “politically correct” by today’s standards.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught that:

1.“Aryan” means spiritually and culturally advanced.

2.At the present time, anyone who acquires the appropriate qualities is an Aryan.

3.At a certain period of history the quality of being an Aryan was closely linked to a specific ethnic cluster: Indo-European.

4.Some Aryans migrated into India, some into Europe.

5.Present day whites and lighter-skinned, upper-caste Indians are descendants of the ancient Aryans, namely, the Indo-Europeans.

6.The Aryan ethnic stock is distinct from the Dravidian.

 

[see below for references.]

 

In addition, Prabhupada does not uphold the invasion theory, but instead supports the notion of migration. His views are NOT racist, because he maintains that anyone can become an Aryan in quality. It is true he says certain spiritual attributes historically were manifest more prominently by certain ethnicities in contrast to others. Also, he regards some present day peoples as in general having a greater material propensity for spiritual advancement (i.e., propensity for vedic spiritual culture) than others. But inasmuch as this propensity is merely material, Prabhupada always held that anyone, regardless of race or ethnicity, could become an Aryan in quality.

 

The above statements are backed by the following citations (in no particular order):

 

 

The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg 2.2

 

 

The association of devotees (arya-sangama) is the most important factor in this world. The word arya refers to those who are advancing spiritually. In the history of the human race, the Aryan family is considered to be the most elevated community in the world because it adopts the Vedic civilization. The Aryan family is distributed all over the world and is known as Indo-Aryan. In prehistoric days all of the members of the Aryan family followed the Vedic principles, and therefore they became spiritually advanced. The kings, known as rajarsis, were so perfectly educated as ksatriyas, or protectors of the citizens, and so greatly advanced in spiritual life, that there was not a bit of trouble for the citizens.

The glorification of the Supreme Lord can be very much appreciated by the Aryan family. Although there is no bar for others, the members of the Aryan family very quickly catch the essence of spiritual life. How is it that we are finding it very easy to spread Krsna consciousness among the Europeans and Americans? History reports that the Americans and Europeans proved their capability when they were anxious to expand colonization, but at the present time, being contaminated by the advancement of material science, their sons and grandsons are turning into reprobates. This is due to their having lost their original spiritual culture, which is Vedic civilization. Presently these descendants of the Aryan family are taking this Krsna consciousness movement very seriously. Others who are associating with them and hearing the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra from the lips of pure devotees are also becoming captivated by the transcendental vibration. Transcendental vibrations are very much effective when chanted among Aryans, but even though one does not belong to the Aryan family, he will become a Vaisnava simply by hearing the mantra because the vibration has great influence over everyone.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.20.26

 

 

Now, a civilized, real, advanced civilization, the Aryans... The Aryans are called advanced. The actual meaning of Aryan means advanced, according to Sanskrit. This is a... Aryan is not any, I mean to say, English word or Hindu or any other language. It is the Sanskrit word, Aryan. Aryan. The word comes from the arya, a-r-y-a, arya. Now it has become a common word, Aryan, but originally it is Sanskrit word. And arya means one who is advanced, or one who is civilized, one who knows, one who has knowledge. Then he is called arya. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find. When Arjuna declined to fight, Krsna condemned him, "Oh, you are just like talking like a non-Aryan, not Aryan."

So we all belong to the Aryan family. Historical reference is there, Indo-European family. So Aryan stock was on the central Asia. Some of them migrated to India. Some of them migrated to Europe. And from Europe you have come. So we belong to the Aryan family, but we have lost our knowledge. So we have become non-Aryan practically. Because we do not give importance to the spiritual side of life. The Aryan means one who gives importance to the spiritual side of life.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 10.4-5 -- New York, January 4, 1967

 

 

Yayati: The great emperor of the world and the original forefather of all great nations of the world who belong to the Aryan and Indo-European stock. He is the son of Maharaja Nabusa, and he became the emperor of the world due to his elder brother's becoming a great and liberated saintly mystic.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.12.24

 

 

If there is civilization, that is this Aryan civilization in India, Vedic civilization. Otherwise, throughout the whole world... These people were within Aryan civilization. Aryan, Iranian, their names are given. Up to Iran, their field(?). Europeans also, Indo-European. Gradually they declined. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is to make them civilized. Pascimera loka saba mudha anacara. They are all fools and misbehaved. Teach them this Krsna consciousness. They'll be happy. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That is our next step, how to make one civilization, Krsna conscious.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana

 

 

Human life is not in large quantity. Out of that, mostly they are uncivilized, and very few Aryan families. The Aryan family -- the Indo-European family, they are also Aryan -- they are very few. The Europeans, they belong to the Indo-European group. The Americans, they also come from Europe. So this group of human society is very few. There are other, many uncivilized groups. Therefore Vedanta says, atha atah: now you have got developed human form of life, civilized life, you have got nice arrangement for your comfortable life. Especially in America you have got all material comforts. You have got cars, you have got good road, nice food, nice building, nice dress, nice feature of your body. Everything God has given you very nice. The Vedanta advises, "Now you take to about the inquiry of Brahman." Athato brahma jijnasa.

This is applicable for everyone, civilized men. I don't speak of the Americans, in Europe, in Asia. Anywhere. Aryans means those who are advanced. Non-Aryans means those who are not ad... This is the Sanskrit meaning, arya.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture -- Seattle, October 7, 1968

 

 

 

So here it is said that vivasvan manave praha manur iksvakave 'bravit. First of all, this was spoken to sun-god Vivasvan, and Vivasvan spoke to his son Manu, and Manu spoke to his son Iksvaku. This Maharaja Iksvaku happened to be an ancient emperor on this planet, and in his dynasty Lord Ramacandra appeared, Maharaja Iksvaku. He is ksatriya. These are all ksatriya. Surya, Vivasvan is also ksatriya. There are two ksatriya families, one from the sun and one from the moon, candra-vamsa and surya-vamsa. They're existing. And the Indo-European stock, they are also coming from the ksatriyas. From the history of Mahabharata, we can understand the Aryan families who migrated to Europe, they also belonged to this surya-vamsa or candra-vamsa. Anyway, that is another department of knowledge. Here it is said that..., Krsna says that "I spoke this philosophy or this system or this doctrine of Bhagavad-gita, yoga."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.1 -- Montreal, August 24, 1968

 

 

Hamsaduta: It must be very difficult to get a birth in a civilized society.

Prabhupada: Yes. Certainly. Therefore it is said, labdhva sudurlabham. It is very rare, now, especially to take birth in India in the Vedic society. India means within this planet, the civilized Aryan family. Now Aryan families have degraded. Otherwise Aryan means progressive. So all over the world the Aryan families they have degraded. Otherwise the Vedic civilization was Aryan civilization.

Devotee: Some places they recognize that. When we went to one meeting in Bombay...

Prabhupada: The Europeans and Americans, they belong to Aryan family. They have lost their Vedic culture. Now it is being revived again.

Revatinandana: They came from those renegade kings that ran away from Parasurama?

Prabhupada: Yes, there are so many reasons.

Revatinandana: Is it also true that the Scandinavians come from... Kamsa-nisudana was telling me that the Scandinavians came from Skandha, god of war, and that these people were driven out of India by the Hindu society. They were worshipers of Skandha, and they took shelter in northern Europe?

Prabhupada: Maybe. Actually Aryan civilization was central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo-European stock that is called.

Revatinandana: Central Asia.

Prabhupada: Central Asia. Caucasian. Kasyapa Muni's place.

Hamsaduta: How come they're so white?

Prabhupada: The Aryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tan. Indians are tan but they are not black. But Aryans are all white. And the non-Aryans, they are called black. Yes.

Devotee: They use the term Caucasian to designate those persons who...

Prabhupada: Not only Europeans. The Kashmir side of this Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Punjab, they are all white.

Devotee: Caucasaus Mountains is near Afghanistan.

Prabhupada: Yes. All white. In Punjab, you'll find, they are as white as Europeans. Oh, yes. Kashmir.

Himavati: Also in Vrndavana (indistinct). And they're tall.

Prabhupada: Tall. So Aryan family, whole Aryans, they are white. And sudras are called krsna, krsna, black.

Revatinandana: But the sudras have handsome bodily features also. In Amritsar the people have, I think, handsome bodily features.

Prabhupada: Yes, Aryan family, the structure of body... From the... There is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have got forget all these material. We have to advance in Krsna consciousness. This is white skin... So you have all taken your bath? So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath.

Devotee: What to do about a massage?

Prabhupada: Do. Do it. (end)

Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.6 -- Sydney, February 17, 1973

 

 

Prabhupada: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have been mixed up with the Aryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you'll find many black.

Hari-sauri: Dravidian?

Prabhupada: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Aryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Aryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they will be fair complexion. Sudras, black. So if a brahmana becomes black, then he's not accepted as brahmana. Kala bahu (?). And if a sudra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure sudra. Although we do not take very, but, this brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and sudras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm)

Faithful followers of vedic philosophy will be unperturbed by your suggestion as observations such as these are far from new. There are certainly a stock of ready replies to this sort of remark.

 

On the other hand a committed materialist would regard your suggestion as stupid...Not because he disagreed with it, but because from the standpoint of official science and archeology the very idea of human civilization existing millions of years ago is preposterous.

 

Hmmm. MAYBE there is a fence-sitter somewhere on the verge of either accepting or rejecting the vedic version who could be moved by your statement, but I doubt it. Anyone who has even a smattering of empiricist education ALREADY KNOWS that the vedic worldview and the materialist worldview are at odds in COUNTLESS ways.

 

 

"My books will be the lawbooks for the next 10,000 years."

 

Source: Brahmananda Dasa ACBSP: "I think this has been confirmed by Abhirama who personally heard it on a London morning walk."

 

Prabhupada wanted to first visit his Los Angeles center, now a large, thriving community of devotees. He would see their new temple room, with its marble arches and gallery of gorgeous transcendental paintings, and observe the opulent worship of the Deities Rukmini-Dvarakadhisa. He would see the latest technological applications of Krsna consciousness at Golden Avatara recording studios and at the FATE museum, which utilized multimedia dioramas to depict the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita. He would sit in his garden and hear Krsna book and walk on Venice Beach discussing scientific theories with Dr. Svarupa Damodara. And, of course, he would increase the already swelling waves of book distribution. One day in the car he had said, "My books will be the lawbooks for human society for the next ten thousand years."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SPL 50: The Lame Man and the Blind Man

 

 

 

 

The 10,000 year claim about his books is exactly what I'm trying to verify.

 

I wouldn't call Ramesvara a reformer by any stretch, but so far I've got one vote saying that the "lawbooks" quote is a fabrication.

 

Are there any Prabhupada disciples who can say whether they remember this alleged statement being quoted prior to his disappearance?

Most devotees are familiar with Srila Prabhupada's assertion that his books would be the lawbooks for mankind for 10,000 years. I am attempting to document where (and when) he made this claim. I haven't been able to find it in Vedabase yet. - Maybe I'm not using the appropriate search terms. - Does anyone have documentation for this statement.