anadi

What is the point of your posting that conversation,

i don't see any relevance, can you elucidate ?

 

 

 

1. It is well known that Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja made some general statement against his godbrothers, that nowdays are misused from some persons as propaganda .

 

<font color="blue"> I wish that my god-brothers forgive my offenses</font color>

 

Srila BV Svami M: Prabhupada (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura) had a desire to preach all over the world - in Europe, America…I tried my best to fulfill his desire. <font color="red"> Now we should preach together.</font color>

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes.

Srila BV Svami M: We have got experience that <font color="green"> if we endeavor collectively</font color> , there is great possibility to spread the message of akara matha: <font color="green"> the mission of Mahaprabhu</font color> , 'prithvi te ache, everywhere in the world. I have contributed to this end to the best of my ability.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Hmm.

Srila BV Svami M: <font color="blue"> I wish that my god-brothers forgive my offenses</font color> ...While preaching, many times we do say things contrary to each other, or we cut each other's philosophical arguments. That happens. Please ask my god-brothers to forgive my offences…(inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: All right.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Whatever you will order I will accept completely. I consider you as my Guru.

 

2. It was the wish of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja that Srila BV Narayana M. will help the mission. But as we know some want no help.

 

<font color="red"> You have done a wonderful thing. It is necessary to care for and preserve this mission, and see that it is managed skillfully</font color>

<font color="blue"> You kindly instruct them on this matter</font color>

 

Srila BV Svami M: This cutting of arguments happens sometimes...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: These are insignificant matters in such a substantial worldwide mission. A little something here and there is of no consequence. You have done this wonderful preaching work for the benefit of the whole world. There was no self-interest. You did everything only in devotional service to Krishna - for benefiting all people at large.

Srila BV Svami M: It is all by your blessings.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You have done a wonderful thing. It is necessary <font color="blue"> to care for and preserve this mission</font color> , and see that it is managed skillfully.

Srila BV Svami M: <font color="red"> You kindly instruct them on this matter. </font color>

 

 

<font color="red"> That's why I beg you to please forgive my offenses.</font color>

 

Srila BV Svami M: You have some affection for me? [This is an Indian expression of love.]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Affection! What to speak of affection, I regard you as my Guru.

Srila BV Svami M: I know that. <font color="blue"> That's why I beg you to please forgive my offenses.</font color>

 

Why did Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja became more active (than passive) regarding

the mission of Srila Prabhupada (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura), the mission of Gaura.

One can invest some time and read about what happens in Our Mission

www.kundalidasa.org\Our_Mission_1\00chapters1.htm

 

<font color="red"> You have done a wonderful thing. It is necessary to care for and preserve this mission, and see that it is managed skillfully</font color>

<font color="blue"> You kindly instruct them on this matter.

 

Srila BV Narayana Maharaja

In that mood of separation the gopis are fully absorbed in Krsna,

in all His qualities and in all His pastimes.

Yet, at the same time, they want to embrace Krsna right then and there.

They do not want to burn in the fire of separation.

The gopis are not satisfied in their mood of separation ; they cannot be satisfied.

Their desire is this: "Krsna should come <font color="blue"> directly in front of us</font color> ,face to face ,so

that He can <font color="red"> put His very soft and gentle lotus feet on our breasts</font color> ."

They lament that because their breasts are very hard,

they must place His lotus feet there with the utmost gentle care.

 

 

Purport by SBV Svami Prabhupada (Madhya 13.136)

The gopis were never interested in karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, or dhyana-yoga. They were simply interested in bhakti-yoga. Unless they were forced, they never liked to meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord. Rather, <font color="blue"> they preferred to take the lotus feet of the Lord and place them on their breasts</font color> . Sometimes they regretted that their breasts were so hard, fearing that Krsna might not be very pleased to keep His soft lotus feet there. When those lotus feet were pricked by the grains of sand in the Vrndavana pasturing ground, the gopis were pained and began to cry.

all that stuff should not be taken

so literally ,as neophytes tend to do.

 

for instance when he says the Mahaprabhu

is krishna who wants to taste what he cannot,

so he takes on the mood of radha, and this is why

he became Sri Chaitanya,

 

That shouldn't be taken literally, Radha and Krishna

are one and the same , krishna is not unaware

or unable to taste what Radha is tasting,he is radha,

of course he can taste what she tastes,

they are non different.

 

 

 

In the Purport of SBV Svami Prabhupada (Madhya 13.119)

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalita,

that is, Krsna Himself

<font color="red"> assuming the part of Srimati Radharani</font color>

in order to understand Krsna.

Lord Jagannatha-deva is Krsna, and Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Srimati Radharani. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's leading Lord Jagannatha toward Gundica temple corresponded to Srimati Radharani's leading Krsna toward Vrndavana.

Sri Ksetra, Jagannatha Puri, was taken as the kingdom of Dvaraka,

the place where Krsna enjoys supreme opulence.

However, He was being led by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to Vrndavana,

the simple village where all the inhabitants are filled with ecstatic love for Krsna.

Sri Ksetra is a place of aisvarya-lila,

just as Vrndavana is the place of madhurya-lila.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's following at the rear of the ratha indicated that Lord Jagannatha, Krsna, was forgetting the inhabitants of Vrndavana. Although Krsna neglected the inhabitants of Vrndavana, He could not forget them.

Thus in His opulent Ratha-yatra, He was returning to Vrndavana.

<font color="green"> In the role </font color> of Srimati Radharani, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was examining whether the Lord still remembered the inhabitants of Vrndavana.

When Caitanya Mahaprabhu fell behind the Ratha car, Jagannatha-deva, Krsna Himself, understood the mind of Srimati Radharani.

Therefore, Jagannatha sometimes fell behind the dancing Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

to indicate to Srimati Radharani that He had not forgotten.

Thus Lord Jagannatha would wait on the ratha for their forward march.

In this way Lord Jagannatha agreed that

<font color="blue"> without the ecstasy of Srimati Radharani </font color> He could not feel <font color="red"> satisfied.</font color>

ratha sthira kaila, age na kare gamana

animisa-netre kare nrtya darasana

 

The car came to a complete standstill and remained immobile while <font color="blue"> Lord Jagannatha, with unblinking eyes</font color> , <font color="red"> watched </font color> the dancing of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

ei-mata tandava-nrtya kaila kata-ksana

bhava-visese prabhura pravesila mana

 

After performing His devastating dance for some time, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mind entered into a <font color="red"> mood of ecstatic love</font color> .

 

tandava-nrtya chadi' svarupere ajna dila

hrdaya janiya svarupa gaite lagila

 

After abandoning the dancing, the Lord ordered Svarupa Damodara to sing. <font color="red"> Understanding His mind, Svarupa Damodara began to sing </font color> as follows.

 

"sei ta parana-natha painu

yaha lagi' madana-dahane jhuri' genu"

 

"Now I have gained the Lord of My life, in the absence of whom I was being burned by Cupid and was withering away."

 

Purport by SBV Svami Prabhupada

 

This song refers to Srimati Radharani's meeting with Krsna at the holy place of Kuruksetra, where Lord Sri Krsna and His brother and sister came to visit when there was a solar eclipse. It is a song of separation from Krsna. When Radharani met Krsna at Kuruksetra, She remembered His intimate association in Vrndavana, and She thought, "Now I have gained the Lord of my life. In His absence I was being burned by the arrow of Cupid, and thus I was withering away.

<font color="blue"> Now I have My life again</font color> ."

 

<font color="green"> That vipralambha serves as a nourishing element for future meetings.</font color> " (Srila BV Svami Prabhupada's explanation in Teachings of Lord Caitanya)

 

 

Those who are confidential servants of Srimati Radhika,

and who have more affection for Her than for Krsna,

never desire Her separation from Krsna.

In fact, Vrajavasis like Lalita and Visakha, and palya-dasis like Rupa Manjari, Rati Manjari, and Kamala Manjari,

cannot tolerate the separation of Radhika from Krsna at all.

Do you know who is Kamala Manjari?

In her sadhaka form she (he) is Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

In his song, Sri Krsna Virahe, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes: "I cannot bear to see the feelings of separation of Radhika":

 

sri krsna-virahe, radhikara dasa, ami to sahite nari

yugala milana, sukerea karana, jivana chadite pari

 

["I am absolutely unable to tolerate Sri Radhika's pitiable condition when She is suffering in separation from Sri Krsna, but <font color="blue"> I am fully prepared to immediately give up my life for the sake of Their happy reunion.</font color> "]

 

Did Bhaktivinode insist that his preaching was somehow

deeper and higher then the previous acharyas ?

 

Did Bhaktisiddhanta say that his father was not teaching the highest things,

like he was doing ?

 

Did Bhaktivedanta say that he was teaching higher deeper siddhanta then his guru ?

 

Yet Narayana Maharaja does this, this is not acceptable.

 

by any means, this is simply unheard of in the history of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

Any Gaudiya Vaisnava who claims that they are teaching something

superior to Srila Bhaktivedanta cannot be taken seriously , this has never been done to any acharya, what to speak of the greatest Acharya in history.

 

 

 

To come in raganunga bhajan one

<font color="blue"> should try to forget that Krsna is God and be like the Vrajavasis. You should try to be a Vrajavasi.

Neither Yasoda Mayia, Nanda Baba, Sridama, Subala, Madhumangala, nor any servant of

Nanda Baba believes that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.</font color>

 

Srila BV Narayana Maharaja came in the western countries to give this mood.

<font color="blue"> Then I came, by his (SBV Svami Maharajas) order, to tell you that this knowledge will not suffice (accepting Krsna as God for coming in raganuga bhakti).</font color>

 

When Srila BV Narayana Maharaja says that SBV Svami Maharaja came to preach that Krsna is God, what is the meaning?

He had to established first this fact. As in our bhajan we should first establishe it.

This was not an easy thing in a world, which never heard of Krsna.

SBV Svami Maharaja had in a very short time to plough the land (of the western countries), of prejudices and misunderstandings. Is not that he did not give knowledge about rasa and raganuga bhakti, but I don’t know if he ever gave detailed explanation on this subjects and in this connection

I don’t know if he ever gave bhajan pranali as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada,

Srila Bhakti Prajnan Keshava Gosvami and Srila BV Narayana Maharaja did

for some of their qualified disciples, along with detailed advise on raganunga bhajan,

as the disciples advanced on this path.

 

Some do not want to hear about this things.

But still there are some that want to hear and follow.

Did Bhaktivinode insist that his preaching was somehow

deeper and higher then the previous acharyas ?

 

Did Bhaktisiddhanta say that his father was not teaching the highest things,

like he was doing ?

 

Did Bhaktivedanta say that he was teaching higher deeper siddhanta then his guru ?

 

Yet Narayana Maharaja does this, this is not acceptable.

 

by any means, this is simply unheard of in the history of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

Any Gaudiya Vaisnava who claims that they are teaching something

superior to Srila Bhaktivedanta cannot be taken seriously , this has never been done to any acharya, what to speak of the greatest Acharya in history.

 

 

 

 

No, not like this.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharajá never said that he <font color="blue"> would be better than any other acarya</font color> .

And particularly not better than Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja. He considered Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja as a <font color="blue"> senior devotee in all connections,</font color> and even <font color="red"> accepted Him as one of his siksha gurus.</font color>

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja was given bhaktivedanta title seven years before Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja, but in that time he used to come to Radha Damodara Mandir and visit Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami at that time. Manchmal Srila BV Narayana M. used to cook for Srila BV Svami M. and than they honoured maha prasadam and make bhajan together.

Srila BV Narayana M was one of those, that convinced SBV Svami to take sannyasi from Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshav Gosvami, and so they became sannyasi godbrothers, although SBV Narayana Maharaja saw himself as a servant of Srila BV Svami.

 

An exerpt from the last conversation between SBV Svami Maharaja and SBV Narayana Maharaja

 

(Vrindavana, India, October 8, 1977)

 

 

 

[because the original conversation is in Bengali, with only small parts in English, it is probably a cassette many have never heard before.

The cassette was kindly provided by the BBT Archives.]

 

 

Srila BV Svami M: Narayana Maharaja. He will come tomorrow?

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: He will come when we…(discussing with others). If we pick him up he might come tonight.

Srila BV Svami M: Hmm.

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: If we go just now with the car. Bhakticaru is going just now with the car. Maharaja may come tonight.

(Someone begins to sing govindam adi purusam...)

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: Yeah, Srila Prabhpada. Should we put a little fan on? A little bit.

(The conversation with Srila Narayana Maharaja begins:)

Srila BV Svami M: Prabhupada (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura) had a desire to preach all over the world - in Europe, America…I tried my best to fulfill his desire. Now we should preach together.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes.

Srila BV Svami M: We have got experience that if we endeavor collectively, there is great possibility to spread the message of akara matha: the mission of Mahaprabhu, 'prithvi te ache, everywhere in the world. I have contributed to this end to the best of my ability.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Hmm.

Srila BV Svami M: I wish that my god-brothers forgive my offenses...While preaching, many times we do say things contrary to each other, or we cut each other's philosophical arguments. That happens. Please ask my god-brothers to forgive my offences…(inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: All right.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Whatever you will order I will accept completely. I consider you as my Guru.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: It has been done very beautifully. This is the proper way. It's good that you have raised this point - that everyone should protect the mission of Mahaprabhu that you have established in Western countries, by good cooperation. Though you have taught them, still, in the future if everyone helps them, a wonderful movement can be established on the Earth.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)...I have brought these mlecchas and yavanas. Accepting those who were sent to me, and considering their qualifications and disqualifications, I tried educating them, just to get things going. They learned to their capacity. Things can be done in good cooperation. There is enough land, big big temples, and no shortage of money...(inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: It's proper for everyone to help in this matter. Everything will be still better if they are also humble and try to cooperate with everyone, with each other as well as with other Vaisnavas. I will do my best to help. Whenever and whatever they will ask, I will try my best to help them. Whenever they will call me, any advice they will want, wherever they may want me to go, although my qualification is limited, I will try to help to the best of my ability.

Srila BV Svami M: Are any of my god-brothers in Vrindavana now?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes.

Srila BV Svami M: Who?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Van Maharaja might be there, as well as Indupati Prabhu from Caitanya Gaudiya Matha.

Srila BV Svami M: Any more?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Only these two at the moment.

Srila BV Svami M: Who is Indupati?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Indupati. He comes here often.

Bhakticaru Swami: From Madhava Maharaja's matha?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. No one else is here.

Srila BV Svami M: Please call both of them. Van Maharaja and him.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: This is very good proposal by you.

Srila BV Svami M: Please sit down. They will call them.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: All right.

Srila BV Svami M: This cutting of arguments happens sometimes...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: These are insignificant matters in such a substantial worldwide mission. A little something here and there is of no consequence. You have done this wonderful preaching work for the benefit of the whole world. There was no self-interest. You did everything only in devotional service to Krishna - for benefitting all people at large.

Srila BV Svami M: It is all by your blessings.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You have done a wonderful thing. It is necessary to care for and preserve this mission, and see that it is managed skillfully.

Srila BV Svami M: You kindly instruct them on this matter. I'm unable to speak.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. Please take rest.

Srila BV Svami M: Please sit a little longer.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. I'm here.

Srila BV Svami M: Your health is all right?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. You please keep remembering about Krishna. These are all very qualified men. They will manage nicely.

Srila BV Svami M: There is some problem (disturbance) in Mayapura.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: That will all be worked out. The gundas have done that for there selfish motives. Everything will be all right. Some obstacles are always there in any work.

Srila BV Svami M: Twenty thousand people gathered for the meeting. Have you heard anything about it?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes I have heard something. It was painful. The communist party people have done that nonsense. They have done utmost injustice. Now be free to peacefully remember Sri Radha-Krishna and Their sweet pastimes. Your people will take care of the necessities. All will be well by the wish of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krishna. No need to think about it at all.

Srila BV Svami M: Hmm.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You don't worry.

Srila BV Svami M: You have some affection for me? [This is an Indian expression of love.]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Affection! What to speak of affection, I regard you as my Guru.

Srila BV Svami M: I know that. That's why I beg you to please forgive my offenses.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: You kindly forgive our offenses, so that our intelligence may be fixed at the lotus feet of Krishna. Please give us this blessing.

Srila BV Svami M: Where is...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: He has gone to Bengal.

Srila BV Svami M:When did he go?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: He went about a month ago. Sesyai has come with me to take your darshan. He has rendered some services to you.

Srila BV Svami M: Brahmachari?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes Sesyai Brahamacari. Sometimes he has cooked for you.

(Srila Narayan Maharaja speaks to the other devotees in Hindi:) He used to cook for Swamiji when he was in Mathura.)

Srila BV Svami M: Where is Tamal?

Devotee: He is just coming, Srila Prabhupada. He is in the other room.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, I can see that. It is very good that you have returned to Vraja from overseas.

Srila BV Svami M: They wanted to keep me there, but I said, "No". My health is not fit for anymore travel...

(Tamal Krishna Gosvami enters the room)

Srila BV Svami M: Have you consulted with Narayana Maharaja?

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: Yes. This morning. Bhakticaru Swami, Bhaktiprema Swami and Sridhara Swami went to see him, and Narayana Maharaja described the ceremony.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I have told them everything needed to be done. I have said, "Whenever you need me, I'll come here."

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)...When you enter in the gate on the right side?

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: On the entrance on the left side. On entering, looking towards the Deities. In other words, when you come into the temple. There is a big open...

Srila BV Svami M: You must put salt around the body.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I have explained to them everything.

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: It's on the same side as the vyasasana.

Srila BV Svami M: Flowers should be placed in Mayapura.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I have told them to keep some flowers, and wherever you desire those can be...

Srila BV Svami M: You be there.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, I'll be there.

Tamal Krishna Gosvami: He described the entire ceremony in detail, Srila Prabhupada.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)…Has Sesyai taken sannyasa?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: No. He is still a brahmacari.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: All of your duties are completed. You have fulfilled everything in your lifetime. There is no need to worry for anything. Only remember the lotus feet of Sri Radha-Krishna.

Srila BV Svami M: By Their blessings only.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, you have done everything. Nothing is left unfinished.

Srila BV Svami M: Hm.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Only one thing. They should be told not to fight with each other for self-interest. They should work in cooperation to spread your mission.

Srila BV Svami M: Don't fight among yourselves. I have given you my will. Execute that...Today is Ekadasi?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, today is Ekadasi.

Srila BV Svami M: How is the service of Mahaprabhu going on?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Hmm.

Srila BV Svami M: Of Jhansi. Now he is at your place.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, your Mahaprabhu is with me. His service is going on nicely with great affection.

Srila BV Svami M: At first I was trying to do something in Jhansi, but Krishna had bigger plans. We have got so many places.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Why should you be confined in Jhansi? Krishna wanted you to preach everywhere.

Srila BV Svami M: I wanted to live like a niskincana Vaishnava in Vrindavan; but Krishna inspired me to go out and preach at the age of seventy with only forty rupees in my pocket. And then it took a grand shape.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, you have received the special mercy of Sri Rupa Gosvami, and also that of Sri Radha-Damodara.

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Do you have any pain in the body?

Srila BV Svami M: It's so so… (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (speaks to the devotees:) Give him caranamrta when he feels thirsty. Also, keep some tulsi leaves under his head.

Srila BV Svami M: Yei bhaje sei bado… "One who worships Krishna is exhalted…"

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Hmm. Sei bado. "He is exhalted."

Srila BV Svami M: Abhakta hina char. "One who is a non-devotee is low-class and abominable."

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Char. "Abominable."

Srila BV Svami M: (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: They are fortunate. If one has single pointed devotion to Lord Hari, then, even if he has any faults, "api cet suduracaru bhajate mam ananya bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavya samyak vyavasthito hi sa". This is the principle.

(Indupati Prabhu enters in the room)

Indupati Prabhu: Hare Krishna.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Please come. Has Van Maharaja also come?

Indupati Prabhu: (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Indupati prabhu has come.

Srila BV Svami M:…Narayana Maharaja has called you on my request. I was saying to Narayana Maharaja that I beg forgiveness from you....

Indupati Prabhu: Hmm...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (speaking softly to Indupati prabhu.) Maharaja is having difficulty in speaking. I'll tell you.

Srila BV Svami M: I beg forgiveness for my offenses. I did not wish to offend anyone. While preaching sometimes we cut each other's arguments...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (he is softly explaining Srila Prabhupada's desire to Indupati prabhu.)

Srila BV Svami M: Will you forgive me?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (to Indupati Prabhu) Will you?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (to Srila Prabhupada) Maharaja, you have not committed any offence. Please be merciful to us. You haven't committed any offence.

Indupati Prabhu: (inaudible)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: If anyone considers that you have committed an offence, then he himself is at fault.

Srila BV Svami M: Hmm...?

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (speaking softly to Indupati Prabhu about Srila Prabhupada:] He has just returned from London.

Srila BV Svami M: They had arranged the world tour program, but I had to return...

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I will speak to those disciples of Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura) who are not here about your wish. Everyone should try to help and give them (your disciples) the needed guidance, so they can manage nicely. Please do not worry about anything. Remember only the lotus feet of Sri Radha-Krishna.

Srila BV Svami M: Please guide them in arranging the festival properly and giving appropriate donations to the gosvamis…

Srila Narayana Maharaja: (to Bhakticaru Svami) Have you understood what he is saying?

Bhakticaru Svami: Yes. (He softly speaks with Srila Narayana Maharaja.)

Srila Narayana Maharaja: I have a special request. Please do not worry about these matters anymore. They are qualified and they know your desires. Now only think about Krishna. Everything will be taken care of. You have made the whole world dance in Krishna Nama.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Now I'll take leave.

Srila BV Svami M: First take some prasada.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes I'll take.

Bhakticaru Svami: Srila Prabhupada, I'm arranging that.

(Srila Narayana Maharaja leaves.)

 

[Credit for the translation is due mostly to the efforts of Sripad Madhava Maharaja, Sripad Krishna Kanthi dasa Brahmacari, and Sripad Tanmoy Chakravarty. Although the volume of the original cassette was improved by digital technology, still some parts remain inaudible, and in the above transcription they are labeled as such.]

 

 

Without past impresions and sadhu sanga, taste in chanting the holy name will not come

So the gaudiya vaisnavas come in shraddha, and then later in nistha and rucci..

But to come there depend on what? Srukriti, and sadhu sanga.

Lack of sadhu sanga. this is your position, lack of sukriti, this is your position.

Lack of sadhu sanga - no taste in hari nama

Lack of sukriti - no taste in hari nama

Lack of samskaras (impressions in the heart) -no taste in hari nama.

This is not our fault?

Our fault is what?

durdaivam idrisham ihajani nanu ragah

I am so unfortunate <font color="red"> due to committing offences</font color> ,

that I have not attachment for Your holy name,

which is so accessible and bestow all good fortune,

says Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in Sri Shiksha ashtakam.

Oh, avoid offences, and slowly, slowly improve your chanting. How?

Biger quantity of better quality.

<font color="blue"> The secret is to go on and improve</font color> .

Why am I tell you this to you? Because if you only listen high level hari katha and not chant, no realization will come, because

<font color="blue"> only by chanting the holy names</font color> the realization will come.

Nama bhajan is called cit anu shilanam.

 

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Vana Maharaja

 

Such neutral persons alone can say that

it is good if the gopis

only see Krsna in their trance.

Such persons can say that

although the gopis want to embrace Krsna,

it is better if Krsna's association comes to them

by their mood of separation.

 

But to understand the message one should be anukul (in a favorable disposition) anukulyena krsna anu shilanam.

Some persons say that vipralambha is higher than sambhoga. Only a neutral person can say this. Such neutral persons alone can say that it is good if the gopis only see Krsna in their trance. Such persons can say that although the gopis want to embrace Krsna, it is better if Krsna's association comes to them by their mood of separation. It is better that they always meeting Him in their mood of separation, as they close their eyes and remember Him in their hearts.

 

Such neutral persons think that the gopis' separation is very good, and such persons are like Akrura and Kamsa, who have no desire for the meeting of Radha and Krsna. Akrura can say, "Take Krsna from Vraja. Let the Vrajavasis feel separation; they should be always feeling separation." And Kamsa will be very happy to say, "Bring Krsna here to Mathura, and I will kill Him there."

 

These two persons can speak in this way, but <font color="blue"> no Vrajavasi wants Krsna to be separated from Vraja</font color> .

<font color="blue"> Not even a plant, creeper, or bird of Vrndavana wants Krsna to leave Vraja</font color> . No one there wants the Vrajavasis to feel separation. <font color="red"> None of them think, "Separation is so high."</font color> And what to speak of the gopis? What to speak of Lalita and Visakha, and Rupa Manjari and Rati Manjari?

 

All the gopis saw that "Krsna is only with me",

but Radhika saw that <font color="blue"> Krsna was very tricky</font color> .

She thought, "He is with all the gopis, and also

with Me",and She could not tolerate this.

" <font color="blue"> Krsna is a liar and a cheater</font color> .

He assures Me, 'You are My most beloved. I love You the most.

<font color="red"> You are the topmost.</font color> '

And to Lalita, Visakha, and Candravali He tells, <font color="blue"> 'You are My most beloved.'</font color>

He will even go to Kubja, and what will He say to her? 'Oh, you are My most dear preyasi.'"

 

Srimati Radhika then became somewhat <font color="blue"> manini</font color> . There is no word for manini in English, but it means having so much love and affection internally, and outwardly some anger. It seems like jealousy, but it is not actually so.

In pure devotion, prema-bhakti, there is no dvesa, jealosy. We see that in Srila Rupa Gosvami, Srila Sanatana Gosvami, Srila Haridasa Thakura, and Sri Prahlad Maharaja there is no jealousy. How, then, can it be present in the gopis' pure transcendental love?

 

Radhika wanted to please Krsna, and thus He came and He apologized to Her, "Please forgive Me. I will never again

commitany offense at Your lotus feet."

<font color="red"> This pleased Krsna Himself</font color> , and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was also enjoying all these moods. These moods cannot be given to any jiva, but we can receive the service to the gopis.

 

Srimati Radhika had some doubt. She thought that Krsna was equally loving all the other gopis.

 

He disappeared, therefore, so that no other gopi

would be displeased with Him. He wanted to meet Radhika alone and did not want the other gopis to know.

(Addressing Srila BV Aranya Maharaja) You should clarify this point.

 

spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja Prabhupada

 

kanta prema - the loving relation between lover and beloved

 

The Lord said, "Your statements are certainly getting better and better one after the other,

but surpassing all of them is another transcendental mellow,

and you can speak of that as the most sublime."

Ramananda Raya then replied,

"Conjugal attachment for Krsna is the topmost position in love of Godhead.

 

Commentary by Srila BV Svami Prabhupada

 

In general, love of Godhead is devoid of the

intimacy <font color="blue"> (vishrambena)</font color> of ownership <font color="blue"> (mamata)</font color> .

In the case of love in servitude, there is a <font color="red"> want of confidence</font color> .

There is a want of increased affection in the fraternal relationship, but when this affection increases in the paternal relationship,

there is nonetheless <font color="blue"> a want </font color> of complete freedom.

However, when one becomes a conjugal lover of Krsna, everything lacking in the other relationships is <font color="red"> completely manifest</font color> .

 

Love of Godhead lacks nothing in the conjugal stage.

 

The summary of this verse is that paternal love of Godhead is certainly higher than fraternal love and that conjugal love is higher yet. It was when Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu requested Ramananda Raya to go further that he came to the point of the conjugal relationship, which is the highest perfectional stage of transcendental love.

 

1. Can you tell which part of the spiritual world is the akshardham?

2. Please tell about the type of loving relations Sri Svaminarayan taught, that the jiva may have with Him.

3. Please give some examples from his prakat lila concerning those loving realtions.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja came to give the philosophy that

only Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then I came, by his

order, to tell you that this knowledge will not suffice. You should try to

forget this and be like the Vrajavasis. You should try to be a Vrajavasi. Neither

Yasoda Mayia, Nanda Baba, Sridama, Subala, Madhumangala, nor any servant of

Nanda Baba believes that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They

only know that He is a very ignorant and naughty child, and that He is the

son of Nanda Baba. They never think, "He is actually the father and mother of

Nanda Baba." You should forget this; otherwise you cannot realize

gopi-prema or Vraja-prema. Vraja-prema is the highest love, and Raya Ramananda

proved this by scriptures like Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Yet, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was still not fully satisfied. When Raya

Ramananda said that gopi-prema was the highest love, Sri Caitanya

Mahaprabu replied, "O yes, yes. Very good. But please speak further." Then, when

Ramananda Raya said that among the gopis, the love of Srimati Radhika

is the highest, Mahaprabhu expressed a doubt. He inquired, "You said that

Krsna disappeared from the rasa-dance. Why did He disappear? He never

wanted to displease all the gopis. There were lakhs and lakhs of gopis there,

and all of them had left their husbands and loka-lajja, worldly shyness. They

had left maryada, societal restrictions, and everything else. Each and

every one of the gopis had left everything and come to Krsna. How, then, could

Krsna forget any one of them? He wanted to please each and every gopi, and

that is why He became the same number as all the gopis who were present there

and He danced with each one."

 

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] I have clarified this topic in the above-mentioned quotes – separation is only needed because it serves to increase the enjoyment of meeting; it helps in that.

 

Still, I want to explain this further:

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written that in madanakya-mahabhava there is the experience

of the highest intensity of separation in meeting and the experience

of the highest intensity of meeting in separation.

 

All moods, in their extreme exaltation, are present in Srimati Radhika in her madanakya-mahabhava.

Also, in intense separation (divya-viraha), Krsna reveals Himself totally.

In that mood of separation the gopis are fully absorbed in Krsna,

in all His qualities and in all His pastimes.

Yet, at the same time, they want to embrace Krsna right then and there.

They do not want to burn in the fire of separation.

The gopis are <font color="blue"> not satisfied in their mood of separation</font color> ; they cannot be satisfied.

Their desire is this: "Krsna should come directly in front of us – face to face – so

that He can put His very soft and gentle lotus feet on our breasts."

They lament that because their breasts are very hard,

they must place His lotus feet there with the utmost gentle care.

To whose lotus feet are they referring?

The lotus feet of that Krsna, which even Brahma, Sri Narada Rsi, Sri Sukadeva Gosvami, and Sri Bhismadeva cannot bring in their trance of meditation.

It is those feet that the gopis wanted to place on their breasts.

 

yat te sujata-caranamburuham stanesu

bhitah sanaih priya dadhimahi karkasesu

tenatavim atasi tad vyathate na kim svit

kurpadibhir bhramati dhir bhavad-ayusam nah

 

["O dearly beloved! Your lotus feet are so soft that we place them gently on our breasts, fearing that Your feet will be hurt. Our life rests only in You. Our minds, therefore, are filled with anxiety that Your tender feet might be wounded by pebbles as You roam about on the forest path." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.31.19)]

The gopis lament in this connection, "Oh, what shall we do?

Krsna likes that His feet are placed on our breasts, but we are afraid we are hurting Him."

 

The <font color="blue"> gopis don't want to meditate on Krsna</font color> .

They desire this: "Krsna should come out from within our hearts so that we can embrace Him.

 

What is the name of the spiritual abode of Sri Swaminarayan?

And in which scripture is mentioned this eternal abode of Sri Swaminarayan?

 

What is the name of the spiritual abode of Sri Swaminarayan?

Many people who are still under the powerful influence of the material thinking,like myself,

and are not so acquainted with the spiritual tattvas, by the power of the association with realized devotees,

when they here that Krsna is covered by (yoga) maya will cringe too.

That is why I think that it would be better to say, as I explained previously, as Srila Krsnadas Kaviraj Gosvami also says

 

lilavese prabhura nahi nijanusandhana

iccha jani 'lila sakti' kare samadhana

 

Indeed, the Personality of Godhead forgot Himself in the course of His transcendental pastimes, but His internal potency [lila-sakti], knowing the intentions of the Lord, made all arrangements.

 

If something is covered, than that is the Aishvarya shakti which implies the jnana tattva about the majesty and opulence. Otherwise the madhur rasa won't take place.

 

 

As for the post concerning rasa tattva, please tell more, like

some pastimes which aparently contradict what you said,

where Radha make arrangemnts for Her manjaris to meet with Krsna.

You know so much about rasa!

 

Jaya Radhe!

All glories to sri guru and gaura,

My humble obeissances also to the revered guest, who has written such nice siddhanta.

 

so it can be said that yogamaya ,is covering over

Radha and Krishna and personified by ananga manjari,

who is one of the true enjoyers, while <font color="blue"> Radha and Krishna

are performing their pastimes for the benefit of their devotees</font color> .

 

 

 

I would like that this would be not misinterpreted.

Radha and Krishna

are performing their pastimes for the benefit of their devotees?

No! Not like that.

Maybe we can say so when They come in the naimitik (the occasional lila),

and we can see something.

But truelly they are performing their pastimes

because They are the enjoyer of the madhura rasa.

Is not that the madhur lila is there for us, oh no,

it is us (some of us) that are for the madhur lila.

 

Radha and Krishna in reality they cannot really be interested in each other, they are the same person, and therefore there can not be a true rasa between the same person, it would be

like you trying to have rasa with your image in a mirror,

it is simply impossible.

 

 

 

No! not like that.

Both lila (Radha Krsna and Caitanya Mahaprabhu) exist eternally in Goloka,

even if in some Kunja this lilas intersect each other, when Radha Krsna embrace and become Gaura.

Nobody can say that first was Gaura or Radha Krsna, they are both (Gaura and Radha Krsna) there anadi.

 

The loving sentiments of the divine couple are real just because Krsna is the enjoyer of His lilas.

There is no fake love or fake feelings.

"i dont know who you are talking about"

 

can you handle the truth ? from shiva <font color="blue"> [re: anadi]</font color>

03/20/03 04:40 PM

 

when <font color="blue"> you </font color> try and be an authority in things

that <font color="blue"> you </font color> have no actual experience of,

and <font color="blue"> rely on the words of those in the same position</font color> ,

Srila Prabhupada used to say that is like the

blind leading the blind, the result ?

they both fall in a ditch.

 

 

 

There is not doubt, you are addressing to me.

And the one that leads me is my gurudeva.

<font color="blue"> </font color>

If you are not so proud.

please, have the power to apologise to My Gurudeva, who you said he is a blind who carries another blind to the ditch. Maybe this will help you, me and all the vaisnavas that read that offensse.

 

In Braja

by Krsna's own arrangements, that means by His own will , His own internal energy, yoga maya,

will act so that tattva jnana is covered for all .

What is the meaning?

In Braja

Oh, Krsna don't want to know that He is the Supreme , All Powerful and Opulent Lord ,

all that He want, is to know that He is the Lord of all Sweetness .

How is He doing this? By His own shakti, Maya in her vriti (function) as yoga maya, who makes Him to be only that what He wants, The Lord of all Sweetness, and nothing else.

 

This is His will

and this energy which is also called lila shakti and acts on Krsna Himself as His own svarupa shakti,

makes Him to be totally dived in the mellow of rasa .

 

All His other Manifestations will be engaged (not take care) in other lilas,

(which for our understanding were parted in some divisions)

than Krsna (including His Manifestations) is lila purushotam , the Enjoyer of His endless lilas,

only some think He is something else.

 

Maya in her function as Yoga maya is no illusory energy, is the one that arrange the pastimes of the Lord, lila shakti.

In all lilas the sentiments of the Lord are real,

not that He is playing like an actor, for somebody's sake.

He is lila purushotam!

 

Maya in her function as Maha maya is the illusory energy by her three magic sticks (satva, raja and tama gun).

 

When the disciple begins to follow the process of bhakti in the real sense, by chanting, hearing etc., the first two leaves of the bhakti-creeper will appear: klesaghni and subhada. The symptom of the appearance of the first leaf, klesaghni, is that the disciple will see that the problems of his life are decreasing. Dukha-nivrtti - duhkha means unhappiness, and nivrtti means decreasing. All kinds of sufferings quickly disappear. Then, with the appearance of the second leaf, all kinds of favorable qualities begin to appear, and this is called subhada in Sanskrit. At this time many people begin to honor and pay respects to that sadhaka. They give him everything he requires for maintaining his life: someone gives fruits, another gives cloth, another gives shoes, etc. Krsna is now beginning to make arrangements for his maintenance.

 

Gradually the second pair of leaves sprout, and they are called moksa laghutakrta and su-durlabha. At the stage of moksa laghutakrta, the devotee no longer desires worldly sense gratification or even mukti; he sees liberation as insignificant. The word sudurlabha means extremely rare, and it refers to raganuga-bhakti. That rare bhakti, sudurlabha bhakti, now makes its appearance, and thus the devotee becomes krsna-karsane; he can attract Krsna. Krsna-karsane is one of the leaves of the third pair, and the other leaf, sandrananda-visesatma: (condensed and unlimited happiness) now manifests.

 

What is it that is sudurlabha? It has been told in Sri Upadesamrta that even devotees like Narada cannot attain that kind of bhava-bhakti. What is sudurlabha? To serve Radha-Krsna Conjugal like the Vrajavasis is very rare. Even for premi-bhaktas it is very difficult to attain this. 'Yat presthair apy alam asulabham'. ["Undoubtedly Radha-kunda is very rarely attained even by the great devotees; therefore it is even more difficult for ordinary devotees to attain." (Upadesamrta text 11)] Even for those who have love and affection, this kind of bhava-bhakti, this raganuga-bhakti and ragatmika bhakti, are very, very, very rare. This is called sudurlabha.

 

In comparison, it is very easy to go to Vaikuntha. You know that Ajamila quickly went there. How did he attain this? He was only calling out the name of Narayana with reference to his son. By this chanting, namabhasa came, and then four associates of Narayana, holding sankha, cakra, gada, and padma in their four hands, came to him. They explained to him the glorification of these Names. We see here that even namabhasa is so high, and what to say of suddha-nama!

 

After their discussion, Ajamila returned to external consciousness and left his wife, children and everything else. He went to Haridvara where he took bath in the Ganges, and there he adopted the mantra and process given him by the four Visnudutas. By chanting and chanting, prema for Narayana came, and by this prema Ajamila went to Vaikuntha. It was not by namabhasa that he went there. No one can go to Vaikuntha by namabhasa. One can only attain that realm by pure suddha-nama.

 

Still, in Vaikuntha there is some opulence. Anyone can easily go there, but to go to Vraja is very high. Rupa Gosvami has explained all these things.

 

The fifth leaf on the creeper of bhakti is sandrananda-visesatma. . What is visesatma?

 

You should know this. You know sandhini, samvit, and hladini. ["The transcendental potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by which He maintains His existence is called sandhini. The transcendental potency by which He knows Himself and causes others to know Him is called samvit. The transcendental potency by which He possesses transcendental bliss and causes His devotees to have bliss is called hladini. The total exhibition of these potencies is called visuddha-sattva…" Cc.Adi.4 purp.)] On the platform of sandhini, anything transformed by sandhini is called suddha-sattva. When the essence of hladini and samvit mix together and appear on the platform of sandhini, or suddha-sattva, this is called visesatma.

 

What is the meaning? Hladini is directly Srimati Radhika Herself, who is svarupa-sakti. The highest mood of that svarupa-sakti is the mood of hladini. This hladini mood in its highest stage, madana, is not even in Krsna, and it is this madana that Krsna wants to taste and realize. This mood is found only in the essence of hladini, who is Radhika Herself. The moods in Radhika, the moods of how to serve and please Krsna, is called maha-bhava.

 

What is bhava? Bhava is coming from samvit. Samvit is the potency of knowledge, but when that knowledge condensed, it is transformed into bhava, and bhava is transformed into sneha, mana, pranaya, raga, anuraga, bhava, and maha-bhava. This maha-bhava is the moods in Radhika. These moods are thus the essence of samvit and hladini, the moods of service Krsna in the highest way, and they come on the platform of suddha-sattva.

 

What is sattva? It is any transformation of sandhini. Within sandhini, any jiva who is liberated is called suddha-sattva, and Krsna and His svamsa or manifestations are called visuddha-sattva. Jivas are not visuddha-sattva, but they may be suddha-sattva. Asuddha-sattva are those who are not liberated, suddha-sattva are liberated, and visuddha-sattva refers to Krsna and His all incarnations including Visnu. When visuddha-sattva will combine with the essence of hladini and samvit and comes in a jiva, that essential mood to serve Krsna will be sandrananda-visesatma; otherwise not. This is a very elevated topic.]

 

 

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami himself has defined pure

bhakti, suddha-bhakti. He explained that raganuga-bhakti is pure suddha-

bhakti. Only raganuga-bhakti. He has vividly declared this in his commentary on

Caitanya Caritamrta (see Cc. Adi-lila 4.22purp.) Prema-bhakti is raganuga-bhakti.

Vaidhi-bhakti is not suddha-bhakti. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said

that 'samah sarvesu bhutesu' is for beginners. They should practice this, and thus

gradually they can enter into the realm of actual bhakti.

At last Raya Ramananda said:

 

jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva

jivanti san-mukharitam bhavadiya-vartam

sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-vah-manobhir

ye prayaso 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyam

 

["O my Lord Krsna, a devotee who abandons the path of empiric

philosophical speculation aimed at merging in the existence of the Supreme and

engages himself in hearing Your glories and activities from a bona fide

sadhu, or saint, and who lives an honest life in the occupational engagement of

his social life, can conquer Your sympathy and mercy even though You are

ajita, or unconquerable." (Bhag. 10.14.3)]

 

Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but you should

eventually try to forget even this. You cannot forget it, but Krsna says, "By My

causeless mercy I will manage it through Yogamaya." Without this mercy you

cannot forget. First you should know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, the supreme power, having all opulences. In an instant He can

destroy all the universes and in the next moment He can create new

ones, but you will have to forget this.

 

Previously the devotees have proved that someone was wrong and offensive in his objection saying that

 

"Srila Krsna dasa Kaviraja Gosvami didn't meant what he wrote, when he described the internal meaning of the descent of Sri Caitanya.

 

But that person I don't whant to know it!

 

The<font color="red"> "mistake" </font color> , that one has to vehemently denounce

 

"when i here devotees speak that <font color="red"> Krishna is covered by yoga maya</font color> , and is not aware of the material world, and that he forgets who he is, and so on...i cringe."

 

 

I will try by the mercy of guru and vaisnavas to explain something.

In Braja

by Krsna's own arrangements, that means <font color="blue"> by His own will</font color> , His own internal energy, yoga maya,

will act so that tattva jnana is covered for all .

What is the meaning?

<font color="blue"> In Braja</font color>

Oh, <font color="blue"> Krsna don't want to know that He is the Supreme</font color> , All Powerful and <font color="blue"> Opulent Lord</font color> ,

all that He want, is to know that He is <font color="red"> the Lord of all Sweetness</font color> .

How is <font color="green"> He doing </font color> this? By His own shakti, Maya in her vriti (function) as yoga maya, who makes Him to be only that what He wants, The Lord of all Sweetness, and nothing else.

 

This is His will

and this energy which is also called lila shakti and acts on Krsna Himself as His own svarupa shakti,

makes Him to be <font color="blue"> totally dived in the mellow of rasa</font color> .

 

All His other Manifestations will be engaged (not take care) in other lilas,

(which for our understanding were parted in some divisions)

than Krsna (including His Manifestations) is <font color="red"> lila purushotam</font color> , the Enjoyer of His endless lilas,

only some think He is something else.

 

Maya in her function as Yoga maya is no illusory energy, is the one that arrange the pastimes of the Lord, lila shakti.

In all lilas the sentiments of the Lord are real,

not that He is playing like an actor, for somebody's sake.

He is lila purushotam!

 

Maya in her function as Maha maya is the illusory energy by her three magic sticks (satva, raja and tama gun).

 

All glories to Sri Guru and Gaura!