Murali_Mohan_das

I appreciate your candor. We all have our "roots" or conditioning. Many aspiring devotees try to ignore their roots with the idea that they can become pukka Brahmins just like those who grew up in Vedic culture. So often this leads to imposition of Victorian morals on Krishna Consciousness, to use one example, and other deviations. When we are impure, it's inevitable that we will deviate from the standard. To pretend that we are something which we are not (like the fallen gurus seem to have done) is not very useful, and sets us up for eventual disappointment. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja observes, if we do not deceive ourselves, no one else can deceive us. To the extent that you are forthright about all of your doubts, misgivings, etc., cbrahma, and do not make any pretense of piety (though you are certainly pious), I admire you.

We live until the Lord wishes us to die. Same as it ever was.

And it's so much easier to have "implicit and absolute" trust in a guru who will never throw us a "curve ball" (or at least one who has thrown all the curve balls he/she will have thrown in a given incarnation), isn't it? As Sripad Goswami Maharaja observed not long ago, to follow Srila Saraswati Prabhupada necessitated a constant expansion of one's view of the Krishna Conception, because his presentation was radical and revolutionary. For the followers of "our" Srila Prabhupada who knew him during his manifest pastimes, much the same can be said. While Srila Gurudev speaks often on the same topics (the H.O.T. principle, for instance), those of us who have heard him speak more than once know that there is always something fresh, new, and revelatory to be found in his teachings based, no doubt, on time, place, and circumstance. Srila Prabhupada's teachings are timeless, no doubt, but they were also adjusted according to time, place, and circumstance. He himself is no longer adjusting those teachings except through his dear followers.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja specifies: Until we are in the highest stage of devotion, it's best not to equate "Bhagwan Sri" Rajneesh with the Srila Prabhupadas, right? And from my perspective you're deceiving yourself and trying to deceive others (perhaps "playing games" would be a kinder way to phrase it). Unless you claim to clearly hear the voice of Srila Prabhupada (and, even then, such claims would be suspect) in your heart, your only access to the person Srila Prabhupada is through his writings, lectures, letters, etc., which certainly fall under the category of shastra.

As you said earlier, the authority is described as guru-sadhu-shastra. You claim to be following that authority, when really, you are following shastra-sadhu-shastra. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's not what Srila Prabhupada or any of the Gaudiya acharyas recommend. I have to leave for the day. Please accept my obeisances.

Not exactly (to my vision). It sounds like what you do is more haphazard--depending on random internet Godbrothers to clarify your misconceptions. I suppose that's what I'm doing as well, in participating on this forum. I try to be honest with myself about it, though. Really, when Gurudev was here in Soquel, I did *not* take the opportunity to sit at his feet and reveal my mind. The only time I sat at his feet was to *take* something from him (Gayatri Mantra), and to give him some small token of my esteem in return. In my fearful state and lack of trust and surrender, I still try to maintain some distance and independence. This is why I am still floundering. Still, I wish you all the best.

Thanks, Prabhu, for doing the math to satisfy my doubting mind! I wish you all facility in your service life!!! Brihat Mridanga ki jai!!

Thanks, Alex, for highlighting exactly why it's in our best interest to surrender at the feet of Sri Guru and to reveal our minds (and misconceptions) to him/her for clarification.

I like Srila Prabhupada's analogy just fine. It is an excellent analogy. I'm simply taking the liberty of extending the analogy to include the factor of discernment. Who knows what gold is pure and which is impure? After all, anybody can stamp 18k gold with a stamp that say "24k". It takes a true expert to discern what is truly pure. It's funny, you're usually the one railing on the GBC stamping 18k (or 14k) gurus as 24k. Ha ha ha!!

And the purest gold one can buy is billed as 99.999% pure, isn't it? Of course, let us not forget "Fool's Gold", which shines like gold, but which actually contains no gold at all, but is Iron Pyrite. As my uncle used to tell me, "you don't know s**t from shinola". That's why I depend upon Sri Guru.

My memory is so poor, though I might recognize his face. He must be a great devotee of the Lord to have raised such a good-hearted and spiritually-dedicated daughter. Dandavat Pranamas to you and your family. Nitai-Gaur!!

That's some fancy tilak, Kula!!

True enough. But there's certainly a difference between 14k and 24k gold (what to speak of gold-plated tin), isn't there? It's all about the impurities (though I'd rather focus on the purities than the impurities) when it comes time to ascertain the gold's value--that's just good business sense.

Nicely said. No doubt, just as my impurities prevent me from closely following the instructions of my physically-present Gurudev, your sincerity and honesty will lead you to our mutual Goal.

But of course. I could use a few good thwacks about the head from Gurudeva's cane, though, to go along with that inner revelation (or catalyze the process).

I can't stomach these discussions any more. In whizzing through this thread (while holding my nose), I came across this: Talking about "two camps of Vaishnava's [sic]" displays a superficial mentality. For the Vaishnava (do I even need to say "real" Vaishnava?), there are no camps.

Theist clarifies this statement in the rest of his comment. Alone it implies that we can transcend the mundane by our own efforts. As he says, by dry, empiric reasoning, we cannot conceive of that which is inconceivable. However, the Lord can reveal to us whatever He chooses to reveal. I'd rephrase that quote to read: Transcendental knowledge is understood by those to whom it has descended. Theist sees revelation coming from within. Of course, that is true in a sense. I prefer to see it as descending from above.

I recently got a Lightscribe DVD/CD burner. I love it for what it *does* do. Of course, burning labels on it is slow, there is no color, and the media are still much more expensive than the inkjet printable media. The Epson inkjet printers (well, the newer ones--I have the R200) allow one to print directly on the inkjet printable disks. I never liked the inkjet printable labels that one had to try to affix to the disk--too messy and tedious. The drawback with most inkjet printable disks (or paper, for that matter), is that if some water gets on it, the label/paper is ruined.

Oooh! I've never seen anything like that. Do you know what your ink cost per page is with that system?

Thank you, Beggar, for you harmonizing insights. I was afraid you were going to spank me again and send me away with my tail between my legs. I meant no offense, Alex. It seems like none was taken. What irks me is to see folks taking a Christian approach to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Obviously, billions of people have been inspired by the teachings and example of Lord Jesus. Millions of people have similarly been inspired by the teachings and example of Srila Prabhupada. Conversely, millions of people have been killed, tortured, and such due to conflicting opinions regarding the significance and application of Jesus' teachings. As others have observed, we are starting to see this tendency in those who stubbornly refuse to follow the advice of Srila Prabhupada and the other Gaudiya Acharyas to seek out a qualified guru, sit at his/her feet and humbly seek instruction. Whatever our qualifications and self-opinion, it is hubris to think that we can take instruction from Srila Prabhupda's books without the guidance of a senior Vaishnava. Misconceptions are almost guaranteed to arise in our minds (unless we are already fully-realized).

Well, you must not disgust the great personalities the way I do. They must be happy to associate with you, wheras they simply tolerate me (at best). Perhaps you've mentioned before, but who are your parents?

That's fair enough. However, you are also responsible if you publicly mislead others.

An excerpt (hand-transcribed) from the amazing "The Erotic Priciple and Unalloyed Devotion", attributed to Professor Sanyal, with a forward by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati (though some attribute the entire pamphlet to Srila Saraswati Prabhupada). *** The sexual principle is a misunderstood symbol of the reality. It can no more be banished from our consciousness than the consciousness itself. The male and female forms are also not the sole and distinctive possessions of this world. There is a reality behind them as well. The soul has a body which is symbolized by the female form and which is absolutely free from any unwholesome material association. Our present objection to the female form is due to the egotistic principle which for the same reason does not object or rather, readily enough adopts the male form as more properly representing the pure little soul. This repugnance to the female form prevents us from unprejudiced examination of the position and functions of the milkmaids of Braja. The recognition of the female sex is a necessary factor of our conception of amorous love. The amorous love is the highest subject of human poetry and the most powerful factor in all human activities. Its worthlessness is not established by the mere refusal to recognize it as a part of our nature. It would be much more to the purpose to try to understand what it really is. The Srimad Bhagavat is the only book that furnishes a satisfactory answer to this all-important question. ***

Last I heard, she was living up near Berkeley. She's a wonderful Vaishnava!! I can't say I know her well, though. Her daughter went to Columbia University to study journalism, I believe. Wow, didi, you certainly are well-traveled and well-connected.

That's right. You never will. Acintya means "inconceivable".