realist31

All along i have been asking questions and you guys have been giving answers based on your intrepreation of epics,puranas and ancient books.That is well and good,but some of you were upset at me for asking proof for them,well you claimed faith is blind and no one can give proof of GOD unless he comes in person,very true.And you guys asked me why i am here asking questions if i dont believe in GOD or expect proof which would be provided in this aspect.Again its true.So i agree i shouldnt make a mockery of anyones faith or ask for proof.

But on the other hand i have noticed every 1 posting out of 3 seems to be a mockery of someone elses faith,lets say for example threads like "Shiva is a Demi God" Or "Sathya Sai Baba is not GOD" etc....and also judging religious gurus like Dalai lama,now who are you all to call Lord Shiva a demi god if you dont have proof that Krishna is supreme?Who are you all to judge Dalai Lama when your guru Prabupada himself might have flaws?

A Christian believes other than his beliefs people with other belief is going to hell

A muslim believes the same

A shaivaite thinks his god is superior

A Vaishnavaite thinks his god is the only god and all others are demi gods

When cornered and asked proof all of the above people say "Dont mock our beliefs mind your business"

Same way it would be better off if you all follow the same rule and not judge gurus or gods or demigods and start threads to ascertain someones superiority.

Faith is a good tool,i agree,having faith does give people hope,but mocking the others faith proves you are a hypocrite.

If you show me Krishna lifting the mountain in his fingers then you can claim he exists.

If someone shows me Lord Shiva sittiing in the mountain then you can claim he exists.

Otherwise its only right to let people stick to their beliefs and not mock anyone or judge anyone and say only so and so god can lead you to bliss

Get help. You are totally incoherent.

For what?I am not sitting here waiting for my ticket to GOLOKA to dance with Radha and Krishna....

Maybe if u convince me Krishna will give u ur ticket...lol....If u say everything is his leela y do u get all mad at me?

Cbrahma here dont like me,do u all u guys want me to go out of this forum cause i ask questions?Please tell me so and if i get like 5 or more people asking so then i would leave,i have no hard feelings so far,i just thought ill talk to people who really know stuff about Krishna,if not its ok as well,after all i thought its ok to learn from people if they really know something

Why do the adminstrators put up with this wacko?

Wo wo wo,calm down man,i didnt abuse anyone,y r u starting to abuse?Dont u know any decency in online forums,if u dont know answer u dont have reply...

Maybe if u convince me Krishna will give u ur ticket...lol....If u say everything is his leela y do u get all mad at me?

Cbrahma here dont like me,do u all u guys want me to go out of this forum cause i ask questions?Please tell me so and if i get like 5 or more people asking so then i would leave,i have no hard feelings so far,i just thought ill talk to people who really know stuff about Krishna,if not its ok as well,after all i thought its ok to learn from people if they really know something

Realist31, Vaisnavas do not believe that they are God. Your responses are mostly emotional and these emotions are clouding your ability to process information.

You are mixing up too many thoughts because of this, so it makes it almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you. Some people get frustrated with you and call you a "crazy Hindu". But you really need to try to go to a positon of some neutrality and think about what others have been writing on this thread.

I dont care what people call me,and i dont abuse anyone?All i asked is how can u believe in GOLOKA without getting a glimpse of it and honestly speaking they for sure should know what is more crazy,believing in some dance in a place which they havent even seen or asking proof of its existence...

Which postings are neutral,and i didnt say Vaishanavas call themselves god,all i said was based on Ramayana,Rama was a avatar and he died like a mortal,so did Krishna,that is if at all they existed.

Have you ever experienced the pleasures of Divine service? Obviously not. You clearly only care for yourself, if it doesn't make you happy to see people smile.

 

 

 

It's spoken of in the scriptures (which you don't care for anyway).

 

 

Do you believe in God? What is your basis? You're clearly faithless in anything that can't be proven, so why do you post here, on a religious forum?

So r u telling me religious forums are people who believe in anything and everything without questioning,maybe im here to seek some proof.

Well make me happy and see if that is part of ur divine service,make me happy by giving me some proof.

What is divine service?U mean posting here about GOLOKA?

Dont u care for urself,if not y r u getting upset on me?Y dont u try ur service on me?

You are crazy. A crazy Hindu.

Im crazy for believing someone might have created the world but ur not crazy for expecting to go dance in GOLOKA when u dont even know it exists,wow what a logic

And how did u come to the enlightment this is age of quarell mr Radhey radhey,so is this why ur quarelling with me?So u cant prove GOLOKA exists?Am i right?U dont seem to have answers,y do u blame this yuga for ur incompetence?

If u see ur postings or most others postings to my questions are totally irrelevant and some of them are not even in Valmiki Ramayana,just cooked up on the way to suit ur beliefs and u call me im here to quarel..Ignorance sure is bliss for u i guess,so what do u do day in and day out,wait for ur ticket to GOLOKA?

I am here to see if there is proof,if there is then i would love to go there myself,maybe if i start posting like i saw Krishna dancing with his gopis thru a telescope from here then maybe i can become popular...then i wont be crazy,i will be a believer.

Could you possibly be the returned spirit of Nietzche? You sound like him.

And, yes. Every belief about God is faith, and all of it is blind.

Why do you post on Hindu religious forums if all you do is question and not accept any answers?

So do u just want a yes man for all ur fantasy stories of dancing in GOLOKA after u die?

I m here to see if there is proof after all for all this cause if there is then i will join him in GOLOKA.

If u all can question those who criticise Rama then i have the right to question his existence,if u judge people then be ready to be judged,in this case atleast asked questions.

And by the way all these past birth karma etc to know god,well do u have those?

Science for most part is with facts and figures,god is not and u know that.

Our country(India)is suffering because every tom dick and harry is saying what ur saying that so and so is god and u need past karma to realise he is god,so i just try to see if people would stop that practise of exploitation,i guess thats not allowed right,cause u need blind faith...

If u want me not to ask u questions i wont,u also dont start threads asking y Rama was criticised in the south.He will be as people in South India dont just accept any do gooder as GOD and expect to dance in GOLOKA,so if u judge them then be ready to be questioned

I'm not scared of Krishna. I love Him. I'm not scared of being tempted. I really don't care if I am. I'm just glad that I have Sri Sri Radha-Krishna to serve. All I want is to be a servant of Radharani and Lord Krishna.

I don't think that Krishna was killed b/c He killed Vali as Rama. I think He was killed b/c that's how He chose to leave the earth.

Do you even believe in God? If so, then how can you criticize ANYONE for believing anything about God? You can't prove God. I can't prove Krishna (which is the name I call God). And, if you don't believe in God, then why are you even on here asking questions about Him in the first place? To mock His devotees?

I believe in god because someone might have created the world so that person is GOD.But yes i havent seen him so i cant say i am going to dance with him after i die and he did this he did that to so and so.

Im not mocking anyone,i am here to find if there is proof so that i can believe,im searching but i havent found,if u seem to have found then u show it or else keep searching,ur story with no proof mocks itself and not me,u r doing it to urself,not me.

Anyone can write books and create characters,if ur going to believe in them dont u think they should show themselves at some point to u?

Whereas ur saying so based on some book written some years ago.

How can u go serve Radha and Krishna when u dont even know where they live?

Even if they live somewhere they dont seem to want u now,what is the guarantee they may want u in future,why do u want to serve them when ur not welcome to be there now?

How can u prove Krishnas existence,because seriously if there is someone like that now even i might love to know and what benefit does he give u?

IF u just want to be someones slave then there r lot of people who might use ur service...

Im not judging anyone,i am just asking questions,u dont have to judge me,call me aethist or anything,but the onus is on those who claim something exists to prove it does,or else they r cheating themselves and others.

When ur a child ur mother tells u the moon is there for ur taking if u finish ur food(u mean any kid,this is just a example)

So do u think the moonis going to come to u?

Sameway stories like Jesus healing the blind or Krishna lifting the govardan in his pinky are stories,if he shows it now then i will believe,that makes me a curious person and not a mocker?

I didnt insult Rama,i said based on the Epic he was a Avatar,a man who died like any man and who had flaws,again that is only if he existed,i believe in Visnu Shiva because ive been told to when i grew up,maybe they r alive or maybe not who knows,but if u say ur going to dance with him in GOLOKA then that is a bit funny dont u think.

Thats like believing tomorrow we will wake up,we may wake up or we may not,same way visnu maybe there or maybe not,but ur saying ur going to serve someone when u dont even know how that might feel or how that is better thanall pleasures...

So my belief is just a optimistic thinking,just to cling onto something,but u all seem to know for sure and its u all Rama devotees who started judging people who criticised him,so u must be ready for the facts(if he existed and if he did those cowardly acts)to be put in front of u.

If u want to be a yes man for Rama go ahead,but dont judge people who question him if ur not ready to give proof of his existence,people criticise thinking he was a man and they r right until u prove otherwise

I don't think Catholics lie if they say they're going to heaven... it's their term for Goloka. Jannah sounds like Indraloka to me (since there's no God actually present in it, it's a pleasure-garden), and Sheol sounds like Yamaloka... so I really see nothing wrong w/ what they have to say. So, no, I wasn't making it like they were lying. I was just stating why your question is ridiculous: We haven't died yet, so how can we be in Goloka at the moment? You have to die first. That's why no one on earth is in Goloka right now.

You say you believe in God. To believe in God means that you are acting on BLIND faith... you can't see God. All faith is blind, that's why we call it faith and not evidence. We can't prove God's existence in this material world. I don't understand how you can believe in God, and then criticize others for believing in something else completely un-provable as well. It's hypocritical.

Goloka Vrindavan is the abode of Lord Vishnu's incarnation as Lord Krishna for Radha-Krishna devotees. Ram-Rajya is for Sita-Ram devotees. Vaikuntha is for devotees of Lakshmi-Narayan. They are for different devotees.

We live in this earth and i am sure someone created it,so he is GOD,that is all i believe,but that isnt blind faith,maybe that god is there,maybe he is dead or maybe he is formless,but we dont know,so it is just logical to think someone created this world.

But what is the logic of Indralok or Heaven or GOLOKA?Please tell me how do u believe them without proof,we are alive and that is proof that we might be created bygod but how can u believe that Rama was god or Allah or Jesus are gods or Indralok exists when u havent seen them?

Two wrongs dont make one right,even if u say mine is blind faith,urs seems worse.

So if i believe in no god am i allowed to say all this is blind faith?As u seem to imply that if i believe in god everything everyone believes is true.

How can one plus one be four?

Sameway how can u believe in GOLOKA when u havent seen or someone sent u proof it exists?

Why are Catholics not in Heaven? Why are Muslims not in Jannah? Why are Jews not in Sheol? Why are Buddhists not in Nirvana?

Your question is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous?

Where is GOLOKA or Heaven or Jannah or Sheol?

Why do u want to trust on them by blind faith with no proof?Isnt that ridiculous than asking do they really exist?

Will u go to a Train station with no trains coming there and wait there for eternity and call those who dont go with u as Ridiculous people?

People here seem to be so sure of where they are going with no proof or nothing and talk as if they just got a invitation from there and u call me ridiculous..what can i say,they say love is blind,compared to this blind is a understatement.

When u go from one country to another u take pics and send it back home to ur loved ones,why not the ones who gone to GOLOKA or Janna or Sheol send a snap from there yet?

If some travel agent asks u money to send u some place wont u ask him proof or u just give it out of faith,same way y should u not expect proof of GOLOKA or Jannah or anywhere?

Ur making it sound like if Catholics lie themselves they r going to heaven its ok for Muslims to lie about Jannah and we create our own version of GOLOKA,before ISKCOn i never heard of this goloka,all i heard was Vaikunta and Kailasa.

Epics puranas and amar chitra katha stories

Did the creator of Superman claim him to be based on a real person? Has he had a religion centered around him or a form of him for thousands of years?

Lord Rama prayed to Lord Shiva as an example. He wanted to show us that it's okay to ask for Lord Shiva's help.

No, God never dies. No one ever truly dies. But, when anyone takes form (including God) there has to be some end to their stay here... that end is the dying of the body. Lord Ram had to end His lila somehow, and that's how He ended it. But, Sita Devi certainly didn't die like a mortal (b/c She's an incarnation of Lakshmi/Radharani), so do you think that She's purely divine, but Lord Ram isn't?

If Sai Baba said it thousands of years ago, and then is reported to have done it, then I might believe it.

If all you want is proof, then why do you even believe in God? No one can prove God's existence. You have to go on faith. So, there's nothing really wrong with it, but if all that you can believe is what you can experience with the senses, then you shouldn't even believe in God.

Why should u have blind faith without questioning something just for the sake of Temptation and fear?

How do u know Rama was a avatar and not just a man like u and me?

How did he incarnate again?u mean as Krishna and die again for his killing of Vaali?

How can any do gooder or a thug type person just cause he has power and conquered be called Avatar or GOD when he suffers a death,and has no power this day,dont u think there has to be any use in praying these people in day to day life?

Do u get ur food water and shelter just by chanting their name or going to church or a mosque?If not then whats the point in the so called faith?

Honestly, I have lost hope on our country very long time ago. I cant expect a street wanderer to change on my words, when I am not able to do so with my own people at home. When it comes Islam its totally naive and also blind, it has a tendency to attack from the front . And whoever comes in between it just go on killing, just like its kings and emporers, who did that in India, however there is merit in this religion, it shows whatever it has right infront of you, and coz of which you have the option to choose or not to choose from your heart, and proobably this is/was the reason why India never became an Islamic nation. However, when it comes to modern christianity, indeed the christianity it has a face which is fully disguised , and this is like a slow poison which goes through your mind and settles in your blood, it never gives a chance to think about to accept or not to accept.. Just like slow poison that kills bit by bit. And this christianity is takin over our nation -culturally. And it is doing so on the name of eradicating poverty. Mugals left, and left theor blood, English left they left their poisonous culture. Now, it seems like its highly irreversible. I cant see India getting its spiritual glory in near future. Even if it becomes very rich (which is very un- likely), it will never be able to teach that sublime lesson of soul, which it used to for ages...

 

Krishna save Bharath,

It is very sad indeed that our country has become this place where anyone is god as long as have a few lakh people to call them god and fall in their feet and also who do a few good charity works.

This practise of calling man a god has to be made a crime,by the way how can Krishna save Bharath,he is dead long time back?

GOD is a word thats been used way too cheaply in our country.

All religions are twisted to just put fear and temptation into people,we have to save ourself,no one is going to jump from above to do that,wake up people.

Without proof dont accept a man as god,whats even worse is to wait to go to some Heaven that may not even exist and not do anything worthy in this life here....Lazyness has taken a different form in chanting i guess..

The Vali Episode is misconstrued by most people. There is a simple explanation:

 

1) Vali asks Sri Rama 6 questions before dying, upon which Sri Rama clearly answers them.

 

2) Vali is pleased with the answers, and hails Rama as the Supreme Being before he dies.

 

I do not remember all the 6 answers that Sri Rama gave Vali, but here are two of them:

 

1) Vali had taken Sugriva's wife. He had chased away Sugriva even when the latter had apologised to him. In doing so, Vali had behaved like a common animal, filled with lust and pride.

 

Sri Rama told Vali that an animal deserves to be killed only this way, and Vali did not deserve the honor of a dignified death.

 

2) It was Rama Rajya, and on behalf of Bharata, he had the right to punish all wrong-doers. Vali had tried to kill Sugriva even after the latter had literally fallen at Vali's feet, asking for forgiveness. Therefore, Vali was punishable.

 

There is also another hidden meaning. Rama didn't want to give Vali the chance to recognise who He was (Supreme Lord Vishnu). If before Rama could get the chance to kill Vali, if Vali surrenders to Lord Rama's lotus feet, then the Lord would not be able to administer Dharma. He cannot kill a surrendered soul.

 

Before coming to fight Sugriva, Tara warns Vali about Rama, but Vali laughs it off saying, 'I know who Rama is. I know that He would never do wrong, being the embodiment of Dharma'.

 

So, if Rama had challenged Vali to a one-on-one fight, Vali would have lost. And it is quite possible then, that Vali will recognise who Rama really is, and will fall at Rama's lotus feet for Surrender. Sri Rama did not want to give this chance to Vali.

 

Too many people have misunderstood this episode, and quite frankly, there is nothing adharmic r even unnatural about Rama killing Vali the way He did. Even Vali asks for Rama's forgiveness and blessings before he dies, as he becomes satisfied with Rama's answers.

How do u know Rama wouldve won,Vaali had boons that made him very strong and he also was a great fighter and Rama is not well versed in Gadayuda.

By the way if Tara herself is ok to live with Vaali then what is it that is wrong with him anyway?

Please try to remember all those 6 answers and then post here,also where did you find these 6 answers?Is it in Valmiki Ramayana?Which chapter,please give some more information

If there is a hidden meaning how did you see it?Or u just made it up to suite ur theory?Human mind is very creative as u know.

Someone here said it was act of smartness and quoted Shivaji for that,if that was the case then what about Aswathama,he was smarter than both Rama and Shivaji as he killed people in their sleep....

What you mean, I clearly answered the question.

You said Jayaditha Swami has the answer,where is he?

No one has answered the question yet,the answers seem totally irrelevant,once again let me put the question

Why are ISKCONis still not in GOLOKA

Like I said earlier, that is not the act of a coward. It was the smart move. During Shivaji's times, the marathas were not equipped to battle the huge Mughal army. So instead of direct combat, they engaged in guerilla warfare and found a lot of success which would most certainly not have been possible if they had fought them head-on. Does that make the Marathas cowards?

 

 

 

I believe Rama and Krishna (if they existed) lived and died like regular humans. They were born just like other humans are born, they grew up over time just like everyone else, shaved, ate, slept, etc., just like everyone else. I had posted here earlier once that they would have even had internal organs like a liver, etc., which was met with shock and dismay by the pious devotees of this forum. Somehow, for some reason, to them an avatar can only have externally visible organs.

 

But all that aside, what kind of proof are you asking for? What kind of proof do you think is possible?

 

Cheers

So you urself feel there is a good chance they may not have existed and it may be a comic book story right?Even if they did exist u still agree they were just like u and me and mortal enough to suffer and die of old age or whatever,then u tell me why should they be above criticism?

Guerilla warfar for a human maybe smart,for god or a avatar does sound like cowardise,the whole concept of Rama being a avatar itself is blown when u compare him with any other king like Shivaji.So either way u accept he was mortal(this if he existed)so there is no reason for him not being above criticism.

If ur enemy does it then its cowardise if we do it its act of smart bravery,that is how we r all conditioned,arent we,i mean all humans..

Atleast u accept he was mortal.

As far proof,well u tell me wont u expect proof for something that is out of the ordinary or would u believe Superman and Batman also existed.

The onus is on those who claim that something exists to prove it with acceptable proof,today u can accept the world is round cause there are satellite pictures,where is the proof that Heaven or Hell exists?That Kailasa or Vaikunta or Heaven exist?

Dont u think Rama had that responsiblity to leave some proof so that people who use their brains like me would also get enlightened rather than believe anything that is written.

All in all at least the fact that he was a mortal is accepted..

Go dig Prabupadas past,it might be worse than this,stop judging other religions or other religious gurus,our gurus and fake swamis are ruining our country,first try to get rid of them and then start thinking about this Dalai idiot,i never had even 1% respect for him,i dont know how he got that famous.

That doesn't matter to realist. He needs to see Krishna do these things with his physical eyes, since he can't trust the scriptures on anything I guess, since he thinks that Lord Krishna was a liar and a conartist (sorry realist if I'm wrong... I'm just inferring... kinda like how you were inferring that Lord Rama was a coward).

What is wrong in expecting proof?Would you believe a Superman comics to be real?Rama was not a coward but his act certainly was that of a coward,how else you describe it,again Rama was never mentioned as GOD and just a Avatar,how many times should i say that,he prayed Lord Shiva to fight Ravana and died like mortals,does god die?

And again this is all in the epics and what proof do we have they existed,and tell me what is wrong in expecting proof?And yea what is wrong in wishing to see the miracles for real before believing them?

Woudl you believe if Saibaba says he will appear in the moon and not appear there for you?

I just dont understand what is wrong in asking proof.Please enlighten me in that aspect.

The pleasure is transcendental. We are able to serve Radha-Krishna. What greater pleasure could there possibly be than to lighten Their Divine, Lotus-like Faces with smiles?

 

 

Are you serious that it is a pleasure yo see two people smiling and being their servant?Have you ever experienced any pleasure in this world to even know what pleasure really is,i still dont understand how can seeing two people lotus like face with smile makes you happy all the time.

Certainly beyond our material reach or senses.

 

If it is beyond our reach and senses then how can you describe them.

Sri Krishna says so in the Gita (but you've already shown that you don't believe or care about what He says in the Gita anyway).

Stop judging me and answer if you want...Sri Krishna might say it,so did the Bible or Quran or Shiva Purana or any scripture,what proof do we have that all these books are not just a NOVEL or a COMIC fantasy.Dont you want to bank on something that might exist atleast or just blindly believe in whatever some book has written in it..

Story of his sexual abuse came in India today (a famous weekly in india) in year 2000. They have quoted some example from some ex devotees.

But his devotees claim its all bogus and relate him with other Avatars like Rama and Krishna who had non believers during their times as well and justify that we are all like those people in Maaya who cant comprehend his grace and powers....i am really really sad that our country with so many educated people still fall for this type of con,it is a real shame and no excuse for the stupidity

Hari Om Namachivaya

Athiests are far better than the devotees of Saibaba

Yea i totally agree,atleas a Aethist doesnt lie as much as these guys do,and also these guys r so selfish that they dont care what happens to those get affected by their Swami as long as it is not someone from their family

Lie lie more lies

Vibuthi falls from my house thru his photos

He came to me yday in dreams

He is the ultimate god,one and only

and the lies continue

Aethist ask for proof but they dont lie,what is funny about these devotees is that deep down i am sure they know they are lieing,because its humanly impossible to accept some man as GOD unless ur insane or cheating urself

So now Lord Krishna is nothing more than a conartist? Is that what you mean?

I didnt say that,but u tell me what difference is Krishna who said or reportedly said he is pure and all mighty,because anyone in a book or verse can say and die like he did,am i right?

Bagavad geetha calls people fools

Baba calls people fools who question him

Bible calls people sinners if they dont follow 10 commandments

Islam i dont even wanna go there

Every man or cult call the questioner a sinner or being in maaya,u tell me how different is Krishna who lived and died like everyone superior to the creator Visnu or parabrahm or anyone.

U didnt see first hand all his leelas?Neither did i?

In 100 years even Sai Devotees might claim he was GOD like Krsna,how different is he from Krsna is all i am asking?

I would rather go to Goloka any day. Goloka is where Sri Sri Radha-Krishna are. I am not pure enough to enter it at this moment, therefore I can't 'choose' it. Also, it is a place without suffering. I hate to see suffering and I hate suffering myself, so I would much rather choose it (since no matter which other Loka you incarnate in (BrahmaLoka, IndraLoka, etc...) there is still suffering through death, material attachments, etc...)

Arjuna was told specifically by Lord Krishna to do something. He didn't want to fight for material wealth, but Lord Krishna asked him to. Not for material wealth, but so that the people of the Dwarapa Yuga would be protected from the viscious tyrants that were the Kurus.

Indra isn't pure enough to enter Goloka at this time. He is very attached to sense enjoyment. Also, it is his specific duty until his death to be the Indra of our current universe. He might incarnate in Goloka after his death. I'm not sure. In the next universe, there will be a different Indra, and the current Indra will be able to move on to another incarnation somewhere else.

Not just u buddy,no one likes suffering,atleast for themselves,what pleasure is there in GOLOKA?

What are Radha and Krishna doing in GOLOKA?

What qualities you need to go to GOLOKA?

Where is GOLOKA?

How do you know there is no suffering in GOLOKA?

For some people in this discussion Prabhupada's words are final, but not for me, even as I am initiated in his line. For me he is a Vaishnava acharya in the Gaudiya sampradaya whose words must be understood and accepted in the light of guru, sadhu, and shastra.

 

I do not care too much about Sai Baba. He does not represent the lineage and doctrine I accepted as my way of life.

Oh so its all left to the individuals,some like Prabupada so they say Krsna is god some like Sai so they say he is god,so who is the one and only god?

Does man create god(according to the doctrine and lineage he accepts or did God create man?)

Yeah I will listen to them.

But they may say Shiva is supreme,would you agree?