vrajavasi

Radhe Krishna,

A perfect clarification indeed. A person is supposed to follow as taught by the teachers of a sampradaya to which he belong. That is the safest way. Because sampradaya pravartakas dedicated the sampradayas with divine will. Eventhough, Ramanujacharya standing on the kanchipuram temple gopuram gave the "Ashtakshari" manthra even after being threatened by his Guru - that you will go to naraka - if u reveal it to one and all - the system in vogue in shrivaishnava sampradaya today - both vadakalai and thenkalai - is to strictly get the manthropadesha from Acharyan.

Today is Ekadashi. After reading your letter and seeing the krishna's photo near your name, I remember Chaitanya mahaprabhu along with his six goswami sishyas and their grantha saagara. My obeisances to all vaishnavottamas.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

jndasji, I dont know whether you have been told that panchakshari can be chanted without guru diksha. In any of the shaiva sampradaya and as per the smarta sampradaya I belong "Panchakshari" should not be chanted with out proper initiation. But if at all your sampradaya teacher guide you to do so, you are free to and you should. "Panchakshari" and "Ashtakshari" are never chanted without Anganyasa and karanyasa as per tradition.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Well said, jndasji. The appearance of vishnu is explained in scriptures as incarnation and that of shiva is explained as manifestation. Today is ekadashi. May krishna bless us all with pure krishna bhakthi.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna

before knwoing the what is shakthi panchakshari, it would be better you should better know what is a manthra. it is defined as "Mananath thrayathe ithi manthraha". The the one which is repetitively repeated in your mind. Then one should know the difference between Nama and Manthra. Expressions like - "Jai sitharamJai srimannarayanaRadheshyamHare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare"

"Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare"

- These are Bhagawannamas.

What is the difference between them.

1. Regarding God Realisation - absolutely no difference. Chanting of either manthra or Bhagawannama gives equal opportunity to the person to realise God

2. Way of chanting : Lot of difference . Uthama, Madhyama and adama ways of chanting manthras are explained. Uthama way of chanting a manthra is to repeat the manthra in your mind. Even there should not be any movement of your lips. Madhyama way of chanting a manthra is there is movement of your lips but the voice does not come out. The adama way of chanting is that there is movement of lips , the voice comes out but even a person sitting nearby your side should not be able to hear the chanting. Basically a manthra sadhana is a way of yogic sadana. It trains a person to concentrate his mind. Then how about chanting of nama? Puranas explain how "Bhagawannama" is to be chanted. The way of chanting is prescribed is "Bhagawannama keerthanam". And the meter. "Uchaiswaram". That is at a pitch people at far off distances should be able to hear what is being sung.

3. Importance of Pronounciation and niyama :

A lot of niyamas are prescribed for chanting manthras. Kaala, desha, sthithi and a series of kriyas like Sankalpam, Anganyasam, Karanyasam, Dhyanam, laghu puja, manthra japam, udyapanam. Even though manthra is repeated in mind, the pronounciation is very important. Wrong pronounciation is offense. Manthras like "Gayathri" has apart from pronounciation restrictin has restriction of swaraas like "Udhatam, Anudhatam, Swaritham and Deergaswaritham". Chanting of the manthra without complying with these restrictions is an offense. But not so with Chanting of Bhagawannama. It has been explained in "Ajamilopakhyana" of Shrimad Bhagawatham - That Bhagawannama Chanted in "Saanketyam paarihasyam va sthobam helana meva va" is approved by lord. Chaitanya mahaprabhu encouraged his sishyas to chant Bhagawannama at a high pitch so that even those people who are engaged in their material businesses could atleast get an opportunity to hear it.

4. "Manthra" irrespective of any manthra of any "Upasya Devatha" is kept "Guhya". These are provided to only those people who are seriously interested in persuing Bhagawath sakshathkara and could comply with all the niyamas in chanting of manthras. But Bhagawannama is provided to everybody who are no serious religious people. Because there are no "souchaasoucha niyamas" for chanting manthra.

This I am telling because the shivapanchakshari is typed out above which is not as per the strict tradition of manthra saadana. Shiva Panchakshari is extracted from exactly the middle of Yajur Veda. The centre point of Yajur veda is "Shri Rudram". Shiva Panchakshari appears in the middle of Shri Rudram. Since this is an extract from Yajur veda this is bound by restrictions of swaras. Shakthi panchakshari is in essence Shva panchakshari but with a difference that shakthi beejakshara is added to the shiva panchakshari. In the tradition, a upasaka is provided at first "Shakthi Panchakshari" and if he progresses well in his pursuit he is blessed with "Shiva Panchakshari".

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Narayanadasaji, Radhe Krishna, please visit the thread on shrimad bhagavatham. I hope you are from shrivaishnava sampradaya. I know from the point of view of bhakthi, this is a rasika sampradaya. You can contribute as to how your acharyas gave vivarana to krishna bhakthi and rama bhakthi.

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Narayanadasaji, Radhe krishna

although I completely gone through this thread, too much acrimony is being exchanged. U would appreciate one thing. From the foregoing discussions, u would find there is nothing stopping a non brahmin to learn vedas if he wishes so to learn. And a brahmin, irrespective of the sampradaya he belongs would hesitate to teach it to persons other than brahmins because of lack of lineage. Then why endless debate. Please visit other threads where we can peacefully exchange krishna bhakthi.

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Sathyaji, paying obeisance is different from doing upasana. U pay obeisance to all devathas. But upasana can be to only one god if bhagavath sakshathkara is the goal.

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna,

When we take a position and expect saints to fit into that this type of discussions take place. Shankaracharya preached monism - Advaita. Any and everybody who is in his precepts are not per se attained souls as such. They are just in his footsteps and on the path of kewala gnana.

Regarding Varnashrama Dharma, atleast as per scriptures varna can only be by birth. Every neo cult profess that varna is by guna and karma. In that case a person would be changing his guna and karma every hour - may be every minute. Then does it mean that his varna changes in that frequency. he would be chameleon then. By being born in any of the four varnas is not a privilege for anyone. But doing karmas as per the varna. Here again there are so many misinterpretations in the neo cult by degrading the shudras or the chthurthas. In the Varnashrama Dharma propogated for years and given fresh life at the time of shankaracharya, shudra had a respectable position like other varnas. As said by one of the guests, the suta pauranikas belong to the chathurtha varna.

Then neo cults engage themselves in brahmin conversion pogroms. Many asked what would be the gothra. shri jndas replied that they belonged to achyuta gothra. But hardly the matter ends here. Birth does not at all settle the gothra but also the suthra. What would be the suthra of the converted soul. To be a brahmin does not just mean that he performs bhakthi or engage himself in atma vichara or brahma gnana. All these things are to be performed by almost every human being irrespective of his varna and since ages people were engaging in all these activities irrespective of their varna.

What differentiates brahmins from others is their steadfast performance of nithya naimithika karmas which are ordained by god and which are to be performed according to one's suthra which is inherited by birth. A suthra is not selected according to guna and karma.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

jndasji, pardon me. Like there is a system to chant "Hare Krishna", there is a dedicated system to chant "panchakshari" . Although likely same - there is still some difference in - "Shiva panchakshari" and "Shakthi Panchakshari" - both of them contain "Panchakshari". But shakthi Beejam differentiates them and accordingly differences in anga nyasa and karanyasa. These things one nedds to properly learn from a guru. Casual chanting of manthras without proper initiation is offense. But I dont understand shivam why u r so obessessed with "Panchakshari". "Hare Krishna" would bless u with each and everything which u imagine to get from "Panchakshari".

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Radhe Krishna

I am a smartha brahmin doing panchaayatana puja daily. But as far as upasana is concerned, one can do upasana of only one deity. U cant chant panchakshari as well as be a krishna upasana. It is not the question of right or wrong. As such no sin is committed as from our yardstick. But this strongly implies lack of dedication to ur upasya devatha.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Let me once more remind that Bhagavatham may be discussed in this thread. Shiva and krishna may be discussed in appropriate thread.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

jndasji, I am not a member of ISKCON. But still I very much admire the steps taken by them for propogating krishna bhakthi. I do not know about jayadwaja or any of the quarrels going on ISKCON. But I am sure abot one thing. Any problem blown out of proportion from or within ISKCON would be a very very big loss for propogation of krishna bhakthi. Although, I do not agree with many concepts of ISKCON from the yardsticks of my smarta sampradaya, propagation of krishna bhakthi partakes everything else. And I feel ISKCON has a dutiful responsibility of preserving, studying and practicing the gaudiya grantha sagaraa. All the granthas composed by the six goswami sishyas of chaitanya mahaprabhu - I feel ISKCON as an organisation should preserve and propogate them with their resources. These granthas should be passed on generations after generations. I could not but simply pray god that he develops Atmagunas in all the krishna bhakthas. I very strongly feel without Atmagunas one can never reach the lotus feet of God. And the lack of these would be the root cause of every conflict.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Not any pearl. Only spatika mani maala. Spatika mani maala can be used for Shaktha japa sadanaas. Vaidikas rarely use this mani maala for Gayathri japa. But in that case, it should not be used for doing japa of any other manthra.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

It is not sthithi but sthuthi.

Sthuthi literally means praise.

Whenever a bhaktha gets the darshan of Bhagawan, by his nirvyaja krupa, he/she starts praising Bhagawan. Praises by these elevated souls are not just collection of words but are expression of bhakthi that too - such expressions which comes out of their mouth on getting darshan of Bhagawan - and that too with krupa. These have wonderful purports. Every sthuthi in Shrimad Bhagavatham is like a pearl which are like guidance notes to krishna bhakthas.

let me explain how Shri Narada described the features of Bhagawan in my next post.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

I had been to Haridwar and Rishikesh this weakend. Haridwar which was known as Mayapuri in Purana ithihasas is one among the saptha mokshapuris. Mahabharatham is the Ithihasam composed by veda vyasa and written by Ganesha, the elephant phased Devatha. For writing Mahabharatha, Shri Ganesha broke one of his Danthas - Teath. An elepant has two Danthas of which shri ganesha broke one dantha to write Mahabharatha. So he is called Ekadantha - meaning and elephant devatha with one dantha. There was a competition between shri veda vyasa and shri ganesha as to whether shri ganesha writes the scripture faster than being recited by veda vyasa or shri vyasa recites the scripture faster than being written by shri ganesha. There was another condition that while while writing the grantha, shri ganesh only after properly understanding the meaning of each shlok shall he write the grantha. In spite of vyasa's instruction ganesha wrote the shlokas very fastly after understanding them immediately on recited by vyasa. So at the end of every hundred shlokas shri vyasa recited one shloka which has more than one purport. At this juncture ganesha took a second to understand both the purports. In this gap shri vyasa mentally composed the forthcoming 100 shlokas and the recital and writing went on in this fashion. The entire itihasa of mahabharatha consists of one hundred thousand shlokas. mean one lakh shlokas. Among these one lakh shlokas, u would find great hindu works like Shrimad Bhagavath Geetha, Sanath Sujatheeyam, Vishnu Sahasranamam and many more great uttara meemamsa granthas. Mahabharatham is an ocean where if one dives would come out pearls like Bhagavath geetha. Even today u can get the entire mahabharatham with one lakh moola shlokas printed in Devanagari script from Geetha press, Gorakhpur.

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna

Namasthe rudra manyava uthotha ishave namaha.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

white lotus - I have wonderful description of sweet lord from the chathurtha skanda given by Shri Narada.

"Prasadabhimukham Shashwath Prasanna vadanekshanam

sunasam subruvam charu kapolam surasundaram" 44

Shrivatsangam Ghanashyamam purusham vanamaalinam

Shanka chakra gadha padmaihi Abhivyaktha chathurbhujam" 46

........ "Darshaneeya tamam shantham mano nayana vardhanam" 49

I hope above sholkas are self explanatory.

Befor Dhruva goes to tapasya, Shri Narada guides him as to how to do tapasya, bless him with "Dwadasakshari", and describe him the rupa lavanya of Bhagawan.

In the 9th adyaya Shri dhruva gets Dharshan of Bhagawan and submits his Dhruva sthuthi which is one of the most beautiful sthuthis in Shrimad Bhagavatham. If u require meaning I would post back. I posted it at a hurry.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Kamalasana Dasji, Radhe Krishna, It is Chathurtha Skanda - Adyaya -8 wherein u find the description by Narada about Bhagawan. Shloka 44-49.

"Prasadabhimukham Shashwath Prasanna vadanekshanam

sunasam subruvam charu kapolam surasundaram" 44

Shrivatsangam Ghanashyamam purusham vanamaalinam

Shanka chakra gadha padmaihi Abhivyaktha chathurbhujam" 46

........ "Darshaneeya tamam shantham mano nayana vardhanam" 49

I hope above sholkas are self explanatory.

Befor Dhruva goes to tapasya, Shri Narada guides him as to how to do tapasya, bless him with "Dwadasakshari", and describe him the rupa lavanya of Bhagawan.

In the 9th adyaya Shri dhruva gets Dharshan of Bhagawan and submits his Dhruva sthuthi which is one of the most beautiful sthuthis in Shrimad Bhagavatham.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Ofcourse the event is among the line of events in Ramayana. But the beauty of Ashtadasa Puranas written by Vyasacharya is such that every purana is intertwined with each other. Gajendra Moksham and Vamana Avatharam is there in Shrimad Bhagavatham and also in Vishnu Puranam. Atleast these Upakhyanas are completely vaishnava upakhyanas. Sati Upakhyanam is from Shiva puranam. But u find Sathi Upakhyanam in Shrimad Bhagavatham also. Then because shri Rama is an incarnation of Shri Vishnu, reference could be find about Rama in the puranas also. In Navama skanda, shukacharya dedicated two chapters for Rama charitham in the skanda consisting of Raja vamsa varnana.

Whereas I completely agree with u about the interpretation from a vaishnava point of view, since a Vaishnavaite should and should only interpret every thing through Vaishnava granthas, I hope u would also appreciate the fact the same would be the case with shaivas.

As a krishna upasaka, we consider Lord shiva as the sarvottama vaishnava as prounounced by Lord in Shrimad Bhagavatham - "Vaishnavanam yatha Sambuhu" - I ofcourse can not view Lord shiva as otherwise.

In shaiva granthas - which u may have not come across as such - there are depictions of not only Shri Rama doing puja to Lord Shiva but even Lord Krishna is depicted as doing puja to Lord Shiva. This is because of the simple fact that the position they attach to Lord shiva. Like in Vaishnava sampradaya, Lord Vishnu is the supreme, in Shaiva sampradaya they consider Lord Shiva is the supreme. In Shaktha vidya - Hayagriva , an incarnation of Lord Vishnu is the is the foremost to have ever learnt and practiced shaktha vidya.

I am telling all this because what we are supposed concentrate on much in our chosen path - rather i would say the blessed path - because i feel i am into krishna bhakthi - not because as if i chosen it - but because of nirvyaja krupa of Radha krishna yugala - i am into it. Any and everything that would distract me from that would be a loss for me. Even this writing - it is an exposition of my ego - I understand. Now I should concentrate only on my Yugala Bhakthi.

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

Dear sathyaji, please never never think that I am saying that ur worhsipping many deities is a wrong or sinful activity. Even in smartha sampradaya - I belong to - I do panchayatana puja daily. This is one of the nithya karmas which I am doing since these are Bhagavath Agnya which I am to obey. But when it comes to upasana there Ekagratha is required. Why - for Bhagavath Sakshathkara. Whole hearted and single minded dedication is required for Bhagavath Sakshathkara. Even if one goes beyond Bhakthi to atmavichara for attaining kewala Gnana where focus of mind should be very concentrated, Ekagra Bhakthi practiced beforehand helps in the efforts.

Then reading scriptures are concerned. I know from my dear and near - my saha sampradaya bhaktha who is no more - who has recited Shri Valmiki Ramayana - one thousand times - that too in the navaha krama. And Shri thyagaraja who has chanted shri rama nama for 96 crores times. My saha sampradaya Bhaktha who has recited Thirupugazh (the complete compilation as available now) for more than 100 times and still in the recital - I myself reciting Shrimad Bhagavatham many number of times - pardon me for not mentioning the number - these thing require whole hearted dedication. This does not at all mean that these people have disrespect for devathantharas. But purely mean their deep routed dedication. Whereas devathanthara upasana is not a avaguna, Ekagra Bhakthi is surely a dedicated Bhakthi which takes to the lotus feet of the lord u worship

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna,

my dear smartha guest and my dear guadiya guest.

Please try to understand that each one of u are interpretting Bhagavath Geetha from a different school. The Bhashya written in different schools by different acharyas would have surely different interpretations.

My dear smartha guest friend, just for a second please remember Shridhara Ayyaval, Thyagaraja Swamigal, Eknath maharaj of pandaripuram. Shankara Bhashya - u should be knowing - we are taught Bhashya Patam at a quite advanced stage in the life. Once we become totally matured as a guna sampanna human being shall we are offered the opportunity of Bhashya patam. And shankara Bhashya for prasthanathraya is a subject for atmavichara and subject for discussion in vidwat satas where the wave length of people in discussion - evenif belonging to different schools are same. Why I have mentioned the name of great souls above - to remind me and u of the atmagunas they have nurtured throughout their life. that is the hallmark of smarta sampradaya. with all humility i request u to maintain the hallmark of the sampradaya.

And my dear gaudiya guest, while putting forth ur view of Bhagavath geetha, please put forth the views. U should be well aware of the difference in the content of Gaudiya Bhashyas (Bhagavath Geetha as it is and other Gaudiya Bhashyas) and other Bhashyas. The difference in interpretation arises due to difference in the school of philosophy. But still still still - i could show u many many commonalities in these Bhashyas. I do not belong to the Gaudiya sampradaya. But I have completely read the life history of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the life and times of his six goswamy sishyas- viz., Rupa Goswami, Sanathana goswami, Raghunatha dasa goswami, Radhunatha batta goswami,Jiva goswami and Gopalabatta Goswami. The one thing I admired and try to inculcate (albeit I know I could not till now perfected myself) from their lives are their humility, honesty, sincerety, vinayata, Soulabhya and sousheelya. I have listed much less qualities of these great purushas. What I have not listed are more. I humbly feel every krishna bhaktha, should posses these qualities to ever think of reaching the lotus feet of the sweet lord. If I have written anything wrongly, my dear friends - please without hesitation point out my wrongs.

For what I feel is - Swadosha parichayam is more more important than paradosha nirnayam.

In the name of Lord Krishna let peace and tranquility prevail

Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna

whitelotus, no reply from u in Shrimad Bhagavatham

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna

sorry for the delay . tomorrow i will surely post the beautiful detail

Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna,jndasji, Radhe krishna, the yardstick u r depending for deciding upon the issue are vaishnava granthas where we would find Lord shiva as parama vaishnava. There are shaiva granthas (shaiva puranas composed by veda vyasa himself) wherein one would find vishnu and incarnations of vishnu worshipping lord shiva.This picture is as genuine from the point of view and logic of a shaiva as it is ingenuine from the point of view and logic of vaishnava. But this discussion in no way helps to motivate shiva bhakthi or vishnu bhakthi. sorry if i am sounding harsh. Let the picture be left to shaivas n lemme see my verses in Shrimad Bhagavatham.Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna,

jndasji, Shrimad Bhagavatham, is again the best source to imagine the chithachora, who gave darshan to so many bhakthas and immediately after that they submitted their sthuthi at his lotus feet. Bhagavatha sthuthis are the best source to understand the roopalavanya of the chithachora. m short of time. but lemme try to see him through the eyes of narada's description to dhruva.

Radhe krishna