aashish108

Does anyone have an idea as to what the below article is about?

RITVIK DEBATE FINALLY COMES TO AN END

by Madhumangal das Through extensive negotiations and the incessant preaching of our female GBC Malati d.d., the ritviks have achieved the official status of Iskcon big wigs. They were given the option to choose between regional secretaries or GBC chairmen in recognition for achieving success in their rocket-like chapati distribution.

http://www.vina.cc/stories/GENERAL/2006/4/ritvik.debate.ends.html

F*** You! Delete That

Judging by this response, you are a beginner in Krsna Consciousness. I would recommend you to avoid politics as this damages our spiritual life by misdirecting our attention. Krishna is the goal. Prabhupada said that (regarding so many false gurus in Kali yuga), "Actually you should trust Krsna! He will never let you down!"

Wrong. Just like Krishna's body, there isn't any difference. It is all spiritual. This is the truth but only if the society was following the Archarys wishes. Now it is ONLY material.

While we have not reached the stage of anartha nivrtti, then our minds and hearts will be filthy. ISKCON is a society where we try to purify ourselves of that contamination. while we are not freed, to that degree we are effectively in material consciousness hence the 2 ISKCONS I was explaining earlier, (the material ISKCON and the spiritual ISKCON) because our mundane habits are externally expressed:

Srila B. R. Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja has commented, "We cannot really help ourselves very much; because in our present state we are mainly guided by our previous samskara or acquired nature.

but as it is known, insincerity and offences to other VAISHNAVAS will cause Maya to cover up the pure devotees from the eyes of those offenders.

...one Maharaja said that there are 2 types of ISKCON, the material ISKCON and the spiritual ISKCON where all the pure devotees are

My personal experience and realisation is that a lot of the ISKCON gurus are all pure devotees. I once attended HH Radanatha Swamis lecture and a little into the lecture, his speech was like a flow of nectar and his kirtans are always so esctatic and anyone who has been will most probally tell you as I have heard a lot of people say the same thing (as are HH Sivarama Swamis kirtans are so esctatic and mellow and it is because of that new years eve kirtan that i had joined Krishna Consciousness), so I couldn't understand the Rtvik philosophy or even the makeup of people trying to preach it (by distributing back to prabhupada or other non-devotional literatures instead of prabhupadas special books).

I have, by Krsnas mercy, met many pure devotees in ISKCON and have heard stories of many others pure devotees (devotees, gurus), so the purity is already there! There will always be some problems, but this is the material world and problems are everywhere.....

Very interesting...but will it deal the killer blow!!?

Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami Maharaja already mentions that Rtvik means the death of the Sampradaya, so if no one will believe this exalted soul, then they are just in Maya.

Also, another exalted soul has commented: Srila B. R. Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja has commented (in reference to the Rtvik doctrine), "We cannot really help ourselves very much; because in our present state we are mainly guided by our previous samskara or acquired nature.

So, there! Any Sraddha in the advanced devotees, then we will follow in their footsteps.

Nityananda Gauranga!

hmmm. Halal, ever heard of it?

Did you read the above posts?

thank you. When you say unmanifest, does that mean they are not even semi-consciosness during this period, or am I misunderstand what you mean by unmanifest? isn't the soul always sat-chit-ananda (being-consciousness-bliss); therefore it can not be unconscious?

Well, the souls are just in a temporary frozen state within the body of Lord Vishnu / Maha Vishnu. There are different stages of consciousness that the jiva experiences and one of them is like when you are deep sleeping and you have no dreams etc, and this is what that unmanifest state is like.

But it is to be stated that in such a condition, this is where the soul experiences real peace (read this somewhere), so its not really a hellish condition, as I thought it was, but it is a waste of time! Those souls should have utilized their time properly! Now, when Brahma dies, those souls will be stuck there for millions upon millions of years until the next unverse is ready . But since they are frozen, they don't realise it.......

where were unliberated jivas at this time? were they transported into other universes, to continue the cycle of birth, old age, death and rebirth?

The Jivas remain in an unmanifestated state within the body of Lord Vishnu (the one within every universe) after a partial devastation of the universe until Lord Brahma wakes up, and after the complete devastation of the universe (when Lord Brahma dies), the Jivas remain in an unmanifestated state within the body of Lord Maha-Vishnu until the next universe is recreated, which can be a very long time, relatively speaking

Also interesting to note is that in every previous yuga (in the 4 yuga cycle), the animals are a lot larger and taller (as are humans) than compared to the next yuga (in the 4 yuga cycle). So, we are just finding the remains of different animals from different maha-yugas (which are of different sizes and species etc etc). Quite interesting, Just an intersting thought...

I thought in Poland, HH Indradumna Swami is there with his massive preaching program, so wouldn't he have more disciples there?

According to the Gaudiya vaishnava system, there are two Shiva lokas, one within the material world and one outside the material world. Those who attain the Shiva loka within the material world will again be reborn, but if they are fortunate by their association with Mahadeva and countless saints, they may also be promotted to the Shiva loka beyond the material world, where Sada Shiva is constantly meditating. From there they can gradually elevate themselves to Vaikuntha if they so desire, or they can remain there in meditation experiencing brahmananda.

this shivaloka beyond the material world and within the material world that you are mentioning, are you refering to Mahesh Dham?

As I understand, DeviDham and Mahesh Dham are all abodes apart of this material world. So where exactly is this shivaloka beyond the material world situated?

In the following link:

http://www.bvashram.org/articles/71/1/The-Ramayana-throughout-south-east-Asia

It says that:

 

I was curious as to why the Ramayana seems to have been embraced culturally by much of Southeast Asia. If you look at Bali, Cambodia, etc., you see that much of their art, dance, etc., revolves around this Indian epic. How is it that the Ramayana has taken hold throughout south east Asia while other Indian traditions are not as strong. What is it in the Ramayana that speaks to such a vast range of people?

 

The reason why the Ramayana is present in every asian country is because the pastimes of Ramachandra took place in each of those countries in different Treta yugas.

In other Treta yugas, Ravana's kingdom was located in other places, such as Indonesia and China. In Indonesia, Ravana's main form was that of a bear, and in China he utilized the body of a dragon. In Valmiki Ramayana we find that Ravana had a wife from every species of life, and he assumed suitable bodies to interact with them. But his original form in this Treta yuga was human-like. In the other Treta yugas his original form was not always human-like, as was the case in China and Indonesia.

 

In the Puranas we also find descriptions of Rama avataras from other Treta yugas. There is even a conversation between Sita Devi and Rama, where Rama is refusing to allow Sita to enter the forest with Him. In response Sita Devi says, "If you don't let me come, You will be the first Rama who doesn't allow His wife to accompany Him into the forest." There are several other places where such conversations take place.

So, my question is, is that wouldn't the partial devestiation destroy any evidence of Ramayana embedded within the cultures of Indonesia and China in this present yuga cycle? A partial devestiation occurs after every kali-yuga, which destroys almost everything on Planet Earth apart from the continents. Am I making any sense over here!??

i think hindus r busy in making partitions between themselves.we should be shy for that.always trying to think weather shiva great or vishnu great.what bullshit?no such difference anywhere.vedas never told. vedas used various names at various places but they always tell about only one god.we call him as shiva, we call him as vishnu, we call him as bramha.GOD---G-generator,O-organiser,D- destroyer. when all this become one we will get GOD.dont let ur minds buried on silly,vulgar things.hindus have to vomit out the buried norrowness from their minds.these half knowledged persons should die from nation.these people r more dangerous than pakisthanee terrorists. my friens be aware of such persons who create differences among shiva and vishnu. these people r getting funds from pakisthan to create differences among hindus.dont beleave their words. they r pakka fundamentalistic muslims acting as hindus.

this has existed for thousands of years (vishnu Vs. Shiva), doubt its going to go any time soon.

You know, Lord Shiva does actually have a terrible and fearsome form as i remember reading about it in the Mahabharata by Krishna Dharma. Basically, when Arjuna's pastimes take place in the Heavenly Kingdom, at the request of King Indra, Arjuna goes out to defeat some Demonic Kingdom and in the midst of that Battle he sommons Lord Shivas powerful weapon, and Lord Shiva appears with a terrible form (death & destruction?) and Arjuna actually got really terrified! But this is only one form of Lord Shiva, there are a lot of others...

The link given by jndas is quiet informative. I learn a few things there, plz do have a look.

 

I was a bit disturb above the classification of the puranas (i.e sattvika,rajasika and tamasika),but now it a bit more clear in my mind, specially after learning that Lord Shiva himself who defined this classification.

 

The bhagavata, is said to give the highest religious principles. The skanda purana also glorifies the bhagavata purana.

 

I still have a question though. If the vedas refered a lot to "Indra" as supreme (as some members here have pointed out) why he is not really mentioned in the puranas? The puranas is after all the explanatory version of the vedas.

 

Hari bol

 

 

 

well, maybe he is but the Purana is now lost to time. You never know! Because of this, the question becomes speculative at best...

only takes a few minutes to burn a book! I don't know about the 95% figure, but India has had at least two major anti-vedic invasions (the Arabs and British) - we know that at least one of these invaders made it their business to destroy temples and literature. While much of this literature was destroyed, i'm sure there are some remnants waiting to be found. And hey, the big man is still alive I hear so we could always ask him (a devotee at my local temple was talking about how Vyaas is still in the himalayas and his direct disciple comes down often from the hills to an ashram in Himachal Pradesh)

Ohhhhh I see. Well, its strange as we haven't even passed 1% of Kali Yuga, and 95% is lost already! ((5000 years / 500,000 years of kaliyuga) X 100 as a rough). Ohh Well! i wonder what the other chapters of Brahma Samita is about......more esoteric secrets no doubt.......

"To eat or not to eat chocolate" - well, this question is obviously on the mental platform and hence there must be some desire to taste the chocolate! Staying on the mental platform will fuel your lust. Because you are stuck on the mental platform of indecision, when lust is not satisfied, it turns into wrath; wrath is transformed into illusion, and illusion continues the material existence. Therefore lust is the greatest enemy of the living entity, and it is lust only which induces the pure living entity to remain in the material world [bG 3.37 Purport]

And how do we know that 95% of the scriptures are lost?(I mean where do we get this information)

 

Hari Bol

 

Well, I for one know that Srila Prabhupada says so, so there is your parampara verdict (BG 4.5)! Other than that, I dunno...

It is a big topic which will take this thread off course, but 95% of the Vedic mantras are lost, thus in Kali yuga it is necessary to take guidance from other scriptures such as Puranas and Pancharatras.

I am just curious. If Vyasadeva wrote all the vedic scriptures down at around 5000 years ago, how can 95% of these scriptures get lost so relatively quickly???

The vedas caters for all types of people from all the modes of nature and the specific inclinations that they may have. There are even scriptures advocating sacrifice of animals to Mother Kali. The point is that they have accepted the Vedic Path of religion and hence slowly can advance their consciousness to its natural level of purity.

Hence, what may seem like contraditory verses in the Vedic Scriptures (e.g. main god is Indra etc) is actually on a superficial level. There is an underlining intent. This is why we go to Guru to Hear from them the real import of the vedas. Remember that the vedas was meant to be heard not read:

evam parampara-praptam

imam rajarsayo vidhu

sa kaleneha mahata

yogo nastah parantapa

BG 4.5

This supreme science was received through the chain of disciplic succession [which indicates that it was heard], and the saintly kings had understood it in that way.[...]

And so the real question is, who is a Real, authentic & bonafide Guru, who is coming from an authorised disciplic succession? He will give you the real answer to this thread!!! Not some Indologist who studies the Vedic texts from a bogus historical perspective:

The 'main' God of the Vedas is actually Indra, who became a minor god later in Vaishnavite and Shaivite traditions. Some believe that not only Rudra but Indra also was combined into the Shiva of later Hinduism, as auspiciousness (shiva) is a quality of Indra.

According to the below details, Seth does not sound like Shiva!

Set

Other Names: Seth, Seti, Sutekh, Suti.

Description: Reddish-white skin and bright red hair.

Rules Over: Hunger, thirst, thunder, storm, suffering, revenge, cursing, death, dark magick, darkness, evil, destruction, chaos, foreigners.

Seth was portrayed as a man with the head of undeterminable origin, although some see in it the head of an aardvark. He had a curved snout, erect square-tipped ears and a long forked tail. He was sometimes entirely in animal form with the body similar to that of a greyhound. Animals sacred to this god where the dog, the jackal, the gazelle, the donkey, the crocodile, the hippopotamus, and the pig. There was an important sanctuary at Ombos in Upper Egypt, his reputed birthplace, and considered to be the home of his cult. This cult was also prominent in the north-eastern region of the Nile delta. The Greeks equated him with their Typhon.

Nasty?

 

What I actually want to say is "What a bunch of morons!!". But since that is not a nice thing to do, I am not saying that.

 

The thread was started by someone wondering why people are attracted to Shiva as he is scary-looking. I responded saying if looks are what are important to you, then if you see Krishna unshaven and red-eyed, you will lose interest in him too. In other words, the criteria for attraction is very superficial.

 

Where is Krishna misrepresented here???

 

I can understand one dimwit not getting this, but for a whole bunch to follow suit is actually ridiculous and somewhat sad.

 

Cheers

Shiv doesn't need to be unshaven and red eyed for anyone to lose interest in him and the criteria for attraction is NOT superficial in this case .... its permanent!

[shiv]

I do not find Lord Shiva scary, but I certainly find Aashish108 scary. I would not want to be in a room alone with the gentleman.

 

Cheers

YOU ARE RIGHT you would find me scary with the amount of offences that you have said in this forum! Being in the same room with me would be the last of your concerns!!!