aashish108

Hey Everyone!

A lovely new blog by me, some key content (from oldest to Newest):

Video of His Holiness Kadamba Kanana Swami's Ecstatic Harinama through London (UK) and photos (Phew!! Amazing London Harinama that was indeed.....)

Video of His Holiness Kadamba Kanana Swami's Bhagavad Gita Class at Soho Street Temple in London (UK) on same day as Harinama

A few videos of kirtans by His Holiness Shivarama Swami at Bhaktivedanta Manor

And other videos also (and more to come!)

Some chosen bhajans which are really nice by His Holiness Shivarama Swami

Its not only a videos and mp3 blog by the way, but a main part of it.

Check it out

http://bintu108.blogspot.com

While in slumber they may remain in the subtle body for a while. The body is burned to get rid of attachments then for 12-15 days there are vedic rituals performed and recitation of scriptures as the subtle body hangs around on the last day the final ritual is when the spirit is given some things on its journey and then sent on its way. I know of numerous stories in my family where the body hasnt been burned properly or the rituals not performed properly and the subtle body hasnt been able to leave until this is rectified.

just wondering, vaishnavas don't need to follow these vedic rituals, do they? Just chant and there delivered!

A Sanskrit Pandit says that the so called day of judgement actually refers to the time after the person dies and not waiting so many years in slumber, any ideas?!?

yea, visnu tattva.

What about that personality Kali!? Any details?

Wouldn't you say that this article definately points to a vedic origin for egypt, as the use of garlands are very common in the vedic tradition (although I am aware of tons of other more interesting correlation between the Egyptian and Vedic traditions, this one definately adds to it!):

Ancient garland in Egyptian tomb

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The tomb was discovered by chance

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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- E IBOX --> <!-- S SF --> Archaeologists in Egypt expecting to find a mummy during their excavation of a burial chamber in Luxor have instead discovered a garland of flowers. The 3,000-year-old garland is the first to be discovered.

It was found in the last of seven coffins which archaeologists had hoped would contain the mummies of royal queens or even Tutankhamun's mother.

Researchers and media had been invited into the chamber, near Tutankhamun's tomb, to watch the coffin's opening. <!-- E SF -->

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The chief curator of Cairo's Egyptian Museum said the surprise find was "even better" than discovering a mummy.

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Click for map of Valley of the Kings

<!-- E ILIN --> "I prayed to find a mummy, but when I saw this, I said it's better - it's really beautiful," said Nadia Lokma.

"It's very rare - there's nothing like it in any museum. We've seen things like it in drawings, but we've never seen this before in real life - it's magnificent," she said.

Experts say ancient Egyptian royals often wore garlands entwined with gold strips around their shoulders in both life and death.

The burial chamber was the first to be discovered in the Valley of the Kings since Tutankhamun's tomb more than 80 years ago and was found by chance.

It is the 63rd tomb to be discovered since the valley was first mapped in the 18th century, and was unexpectedly found only five metres away from King Tutankhamun's.

However, the chamber's discovery did disprove the widely accepted belief that there were no tombs left to find in the Valley of the Kings.

The Valley of the Kings, near the city of Luxor in southern Egypt, was used for burials for around 500 years from 1540BC onwards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5127918.stm

Some of the best Kirtans on the net are all located HERE:

http://www.sivaramaswami.com/?cat=4

Please let me know what you think of these kirtans!

Nityananda! Gauranga!

Murmuring the Holy Name quietly not distracting others.

You should be chanting aloud so that everyone else can hear the holy names and thus be delivered.

He didn't actually post any of it. He just posted HIS spin on what is in BTP.

 

You are good at that aren't you? Spining.

Animals are created to serve man

What about the Tyrannosaurus Rex? Does he serve you also?

Flawed logic. Plus we are talking from a Quoranic perspective!

In more earth based religions, eating animals is seen as part of the cycle of life

The thing is that religion is not simply black & white, there is also evolution of consciousness. Eating meat maybe a cycle of life for some religions, but there are higher aspects of religion than simple eating meat, which involves no compassion because you are killing the animal. Becomming of a saintly character means to have compassion for all of Gods creation.

But they [the animals] are not the children of Adam and Eve

It doesn't really matter from which lineage the animals have decended from adam and eve or whatever, fact of the matter is, is that everything emanates from God and ultimately rests in God once the Universe is destroyed. To say that this is not the case means that God is not supreme.

And anyways, since the logic that animals have souls still stands, then obviously all souls belong to Allah, although animals are less fortunate as they don't have the chance to approach God than humans do. Hence, common sense would dictate that to cause pain to other living entities would be uncompassionate and harming Gods creatures although animals are not so fortunate as Humans are. So, the intelligent thing to do, for a true follower of God, would be to stop commiting violence to Animals.

People are saying that people can be spriritual in other religions and still be Non Vegetarians.

 

However we need to examine what they mean by spriritual ?

 

Is it spritual as in happiness of the senses, mind , intellect, renunciation or is it spiritual as in happiness of Love of God.

 

If it is spiritual as in happiness of Love of God, then one cannot be an animal eater as it will surely diminish mercy/compassion in his heart. Love of God in the heart is expressed as compassion to other living beings. Causing them pain or taking their lives due to satisfaction of one's tongue cannot make one compassionate. So if you want Love of God, naturally you will feel compassion towards the pain of other living beings.

 

So yes people can be meat-eaters and spiritual, but we need to find out what their definition of spiritual is?

 

Many of these judaic faiths are based on fear of God through fear of Hell, and thus if there is a God who will put men in Hell eternally what is the question of men wanting to Love such a God. That is my two cents.

This is intelligent and very nice! But, then the counter-arguement would be Animals do not have Souls and the Quoran tells us to eat meat! So, the first question to answer is how to prove that an animal actually has a soul, when this is proven then, because all souls are effectively Allahs, then they will be more thoughtful before they kill animals in the name of the Tongue and the Tummy. It wouldnt be very intelligent to state that only muslims are dear to Allah because muslim and any other bodily designation is temporary and there only is the designation of Servant of God which is applicable to all souls.

What the Iranian scholar Al-Ghazzali (1058-1111 AD) said is actually a scientific fact. I think there are more than enough quotes in the first post to say not to eat meat.

Please always remember one thing, you cant blame Prabhupanugas for 30 fallen so called "gurus", "spiritual masters", "mahabhagavats", "acaryas".

It were those who forced what you now call Vaishnava splinter groups to grow and grow. Presently there're more devotees who felt of having to leave ISKCON against their own will, then there're devotees within ISKCON.

If the present policy of becoming tolerant to accept more and more fallen "gurus", then even the karmis will speak out, "please, stay in India with that kind of religion, we're entertained already with the presentation of the Catholic church's falldowns - but thanks so much Krishnas for your food and good-bye. Oh, no, wait we have some welfare activities for you, why you dont start to do something useful, after all your fallen masters chanted all day and where did they end up?"

 

Yes, aashish108, where did those end up? Arent 30 of those not enough?

Or did it already became some sort of entertainment to read about another fallen "pure, as good as god acarya"?

Yes, well BTP still stands for Back To Prajalpa! Regarding your argument on the 30 fallen gurus, here is a nice article, its long but it does help us clear up the Water from the Milk and I think that this could be a lovely solution in the end of all this muddle:

The Fighting is Killing Us, Not the Diversity BY: VISHOKA DASA

May 23, USA (SUN) — Some devotees think it’s all black and white; some think there’s some gray area in between. Just like some devotees say that there are corrupt leaders in ISKCON, therefore everyone in ISKCON is corrupt. Some teach this sort of logic in school, they say, “Socrates and Shakespeare, and all men, great and small have died in the past, and so they are mortal, therefore all men are mortal.” Some say that this is invalid logic, because we must experience the death of every man to say “all men are mortal.” But we know from general experience, that all men are mortal.

We apply this logic to ISKCONites and the ritviks. Some say “these ritviks are offensive to ISKCON devotees and foul mouthed and obnoxious, so on, therefore all ritviks are offensive and foul mouthed.” On the other hand, some say “that so and so gurus are bogus and fallen, and so and so temple presidents are corrupt, therefore all gurus and all devotees in ISKCON are bogus and corrupt.”

Here we see both sides making sweeping judgments on the other side, saying all members of that side are bad people, so on. This is why we find bigotry and hatred and acts of violence perpetrated from both sides, thus a bitter war. On the other hand, there are devotees who say it’s not all black and white, there’s a gray area, which gives some hope to the situation. The logic of “all men are mortal” does not apply in our case, because not all devotees are bad just because a few are bad. Or, they should not be automatically judged as corrupt, because of their choice of aligning with a certain sector.

Some cannot believe that we can have “unity in diversity” and live together in Srila Prabhupada’s house. I've said before that we should allow devotees to make their own choice of which sector they want, and we can all still live in Srila Prabhupada’s house peacefully, and push on the preaching.

Some say this is impossible. Some may say that we cannot allow devotees to choose on this issue, because it’s all black and white, one sector is wrong, and the other is right. But I'm not proposing what we should do, I'm describing what is already going on. I'm not saying who is right and wrong, I'm talking about the reality of what is already happening. Devotees all over the world are already making their own choice, and they still feel that they are in Srila Prabhupada’s movement, serving Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna.

Some may say, ok, they are making their own choice, but it’s only because they have not understood both sides of the argument. This is true, sometimes we see a conversion of faith from one sector to another, when the person properly researches the debate. But often we see that many devotees stick to their choice, no matter how many arguments are put forth. Therefore we have a multiple-choice program going on here, within the same institution. This is the reality, and therefore it is futile and anti-productive to continue to try to force devotees into one single sector. The fight is killing us, not the diversity.

Some leaders might consider that it would be more beneficial to Srila Prabhupada’s movement, if we just allowed all of Srila Prabhupada’s older disciples to come together, chant together and have sadhu sanga, go out and preach together, do harinama together, despite this sector issue, and this would change the course of the movement. Instead of wasting our energy and money in fighting a futile war, we should rally the troops and combine our resources and fight the real war, the war against maya, and try to save the conditioned souls.

Instead of an endless nasty debate and trying to force it on everyone, and make propaganda, it is better to allow the natural flow of education and civil discussion on the issue, and allow individual choice, which they are doing already. The leaders should concede that freedom of choice is there already, nothing can change that. Trying to force a single agenda is futile, and “forcing the issue” is the real factor which is stagnating the movement of Srila Prabhupada, not the reality of the diversity of different sectors.

Getting to the gray area, not all Prabhupada sectors are the same, they don't all agree with each other, but still they share the main principle, that Srila Prabhupada is the main source of spiritual sustenance to all devotees within his movement, or to those who choose to accept him as their main guru.

We have the many facets of the ritvik sectors, like the HKS and IRM and Kapindra Maharaga’s sector, and various other un-named independent sectors. Then we have the “officiating acharya” sector, which is similar to the Ramanuja model proposed by some devotees, in which Srila Prabhupada is the udharika guru, or the savior guru, and other gurus are the upakarika gurus, or helper gurus, and if they fall down, still the new disciple is fully protected by Srila Prabhupada as the main guru.

They are “disciple of the disciple,” and even I was “disciple of a disciple” being a disciple of Jayananda, and still Srila Prabhupada was my diksa guru, my main guru, my udharika guru. I had my upakarika guru in Jayananda, and my udharika guru in Srila Prabhupada. It worked for me, so I think it could still work for others.

Then we have the Prominent Link sector, which is similar to this [i think] in saying that Srila Prabhupada is available for whoever sincerely wants to accept him as such, as the primary link to the parampara. The main crux of all these different sectors is the factor of a solid spiritual insurance policy plan, which gives the neophyte devotee an iron-clad spiritual security, that they feel security of being fully under the protection of a proven pure devotee of Lord Krishna, which is Srila Prabhupada.

And, we find this gray area within ISKCON as well. We know there are some gurus who secretly give ritvik initiation to new devotees, they give them the choice of accepting themselves or Srila Prabhupada as their main guru. Then we have some ISKCON gurus who sort of agree to the “officiating acharya” model, and consider themselves as “officiating acharyas.” Then there are some gurus who say that Srila Prabhupada is taking their disciples [and themselves] back to godhead. Then there are some gurus who claim to be the sole savior guru of their disciples. So, we see a great variety within Srila Prabhupada’s movement, on both sides of the fence.

The big problem with the ISKCON regime, is that they insist that all the above sectors are wrong, that the new student MUST take the sole shelter of a new “living” guru, and their entire spiritual life and salvation is solely and concomitantly dependant upon their choice of that sole guru, and he is their only life and soul and only ticket to Lord Krishna. This is where the problem is, that we see all these thousands of new students accepting this formula, and literally thousands of them getting the disappointment of a fallen guru, and then falling away themselves.

We are not saying that because 30 gurus were fallen, therefore all ISKCON gurus are fallen, we cannot be the judge of that, only Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna are the judge of that. Some say they are all fallen, but such blanket statements only perpetuates the hatred, and is not fair to all individuals. Some may be madhyma gurus, monitor gurus, so on. It is purely a personal matter between the guru and Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna. But, if the guru gets his feeling of power from the adulation of neophyte new disciples, and the rubber stamp of a committee, then he is in big trouble. The only stamp of approval is from Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna, and this is a personal thing, not a subject of public trial.

We can safely say there’s a trend of a certain percentage of gurus who fell in the past, therefore a certain percentage will continue to fall, which is sort of like saying that men were mortal in the past, and will continue to be mortal. Being that the case, we have to let all sectors play out, as trying to force a cessation of any particular sector is futile, as the fight is worse than the diversity.

So, in order to have the model of “unity in diversity” and allow choices, then we must allow the choice of selecting a guru and hoping he is a pure devotee, because this is already happening, as well as allowing the Srila Prabhupada centered sectors. I think it would be much better for Srila Prabhupada’s movement, if we just let this multiple choice go on, without fighting, because its already going on, and allow every individual to make a choice. And I’m sure that a great many will still make the “living guru” choice, as that is human nature.

If one is a bona-fide guru, then he is certainly empowered by Lord Krishna and there will automatically be many disciples. There should be no worry on this, either one is a guru or not a guru, and Lord Krishna will reciprocate in the degree of their authenticity.

Peace and unity of resources is infinitely more productive than a prolonged stagnation of fighting. Peace and unity could very well save the day, save ourselves and save the planet, whereas fighting the inevitable diversity isn't saving anyone.

Hare Krishna,

Your servant,

Vishoka dasa

BTP magazines

I think that there is some misunderstanding over here. Actually BTP means Back To Prajalpa and NOT Back To Prabhupada

So then you are saying he is a ritvik? Is that correct?

 

 

ps I never made any statement about this person or anyone being or not being a discple of Srila Prabhupada. I don't even know HH Radhanatha Swami.

lol. nah, just saying what I heard.

I wonder why those that think the Iskcon system with liberated gurus is the way think that a liberated soul empowered by his/her guru and Krsna would ever seek out the rubber stamp of the GBC before ever accepting disciples? Afterall it is not expected that the GBC members are fully liberated souls.

 

Another question is I understand the GBC can strip a guru of his disciples? How could some religious committee ever have such power over a liberated guru?

 

Similar question is I also understand that if a guru wants to leave Iskcon he must leave his discples in Iskcon because afterall they belong to Iskcon, as if they are so much impersonal property or something. Does this make sense to anyone?

 

How could a fully liberated soul ever place himself and his relationsghip with his disciples under such a strange sytem?

 

During HH Radhanaths Swamis initiation of new disciples, he says that "I am initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada". Doesn't that sound like they are Srila Prabhupadas disciples?

I have been reading A Trancendental Diary, and this is what Srila Prabhupada says regarding becomming Gurus etc:

Prabhupäda surprised me when I entered his room at about 11 a.m. this morning to prepare for his massage. For almost half an hour he preached to me, explaining that he wants all his disciples to become gurus. Each of us is to make thousands of disciples just as he has and in this way spread Krsna consciousness all over the world.

He didn't seem to be speaking in general terms either, but directly to me. He seemed very enlivened at the prospect of spreading Krsna consciousness in this way.

In the evening, when the GBC men filed into his room to make their report about their day's meeting, he brought up the same topic, before discussing their resolutions. He asked me to explain to everyone what he had said earlier. But when I hesitated, he did it himself, repeating in brief this principle of becoming guru.

He told them that just as he had made thousands of disciples he wants each one of them to make ten thousand each. He encouraged them to become increasingly more qualified and rise to the position of being spiritual masters. He stressed that this can be done only if they maintain spiritual strength by strictly following the four regulative principles and chanting the prescribed number of rounds.

Source: A Trancendental Diary Vol 1, TD 1-9: Sri Dhama Mayapur, March 7th 1976, by Hari Sauri dasa

 

He said that each of us has to become a guru and accept many disciples. But as a matter of etiquette, one should wait until his own spiritual master has departed before doing so.

After lunch, I questioned him further. He told me that having a following is not such a serious offense. But if someone thinks that he is qualified, and accepts disciples in the presence of his own spiritual master, that in itself would be his disqualification.

Replying to my question whether one has to be a pure devotee to make disciples, he said that one has to be strictly following the principles. That is the requirement. Then he can be considered to be on a pure platform.

 

Source: A Trancendental Diary Vol 1, TD 1-9: Sri Dhama Mayapur, March 8th 1976, by Hari Sauri dasa

 

I think that this says everything, doesn't it.

There is no point in arguing against the Rtviks, as they have attained the stage of Nistha - steadiness in their philosophy!

well, it looks that the Ritvik system is not even in the lead! Well behind....

The vedabase can be manipulated just as Prabhupada's books can. There must be a deeper way of knowing and confirmation available to us, don't you think?

I agree, but why can't the Ritviks try that with the advanced ISKCON Gurus!?? It would save many pages of arguments and counter arguments etc etc

I have heard this same claim from multiple gurus [regarding Prabhupada allowing them to give out Diksa]. It may or may not be true....

Damn! If only it were in the Vedabase and fully documented, then maybe things would be different..............

Someone's own statement that they were told something isn't a valid evidence in their own defense, especially when it isn't documented anywhere. I have heard this same claim by multiple people. It may or may not be true, but it isn't a valid evidence for obvious reasons.

true, I guess if devotees would want to get initiation from an "authorised" person (if people don't know who to trust Rtviks or any other ISKCON gurus or anything else) can themselves follow up this claim! I think that both parties (Rtviks & advocates of ISKCON Guru system) can find solace in this if it is true.....

Well I heard something completely different from Tribhuvanatha Prabhu on this issue, so unless it's in writing, I don't think that we should quote him (or anyone) like this. Anyone can say "so-and-so" said this or that.

Yes, you may be right there, but I am 100% sure about my previous post inwhich HH Radha Govinda Swami was told by Srila Prabhupada that to initiate (diksa). I heard this when he was giving lecture.

Indian man:

When did you become spiritual the leader of Krsna Consciousness?

 

Srila Prabhupada:

What is that?

 

Brahmananda:

He is asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna Consciousness?

 

Srila Prabhupada:

When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru parampara.

 

Indian man:

Did it...

 

Srila Prabhupada:

Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.

(SP Bg. Lecture, 28/10/75)

You know, that I heard from HH Radha Govinda Swami, that Srila Prabhupada actually did tell him to carry out diksa initiations. If you know this Swami, he was a pure devotee from birth. I am sure there are other great Swamis who have been given this instruction especially....I'm sure it is also HH GaurGovinda Swami.....

what about "ISKCON System, some Guru's are liberated souls" ? not saying the others are unqualified though, just that they may be on different stages of bhakti.

Have a look at the below website, it seems to have managed to defeat the so called Final Order by IRM, it is called: Deconstructing "The Final Order" and "Ritvik-Vada"

IRM - a hoax or really reviving ISKCON ?:

http://iskconrevivalmovement.com/