syama

I used to think that shastra was an expansion of lila but now I am not so faithfilled and think that lila is perhaps analogious of shastra, I remember reading once in TLC that prabhupada had said that sometimes the subjects discussed in the vedas were difficult for ordinary persons to understand and so sometimes they were explained in terms of stories in the puranas which were considered supplementry vedic litratures and also at the beginning of the bhagavatama where he states 'even if irregularly composed' I think subtly these statements and others have led me believe that poetic license has been granted to convey spiritual essences and it is that which is the important substance and there is no need for me to have faith in the historical validity of mythological stories or there is no need for me to develope a philosophical justification or understanding for accepting these accounts as long as I try to understand the spiritual points they convey.

Hare Krishna, I wrote a reply that was not needed and did not produce anything helpful so I deleted it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I was seeking encouragement rather that being pinned to certain points. Many things in this path are appealing and I can embrace them wholeheartedly but at the same time many things no matter how hard I try I cannot embrace them for these things I cannot or do not feel comfortable with and faith is required to accept or bypass them. Take for example the nrsimha incarnation and prahlada pastime the messages conveyed are very pleasing to my heart & intelligence / taking the story as a history and the incarnation as a fact and the modes of worship and ritual as neccesarry needs faith. The first part I find encouraging and second part discouraging. Without seeking to be convinced of the second parts validity I was hoping to find a way of reconciling such dillemmas without dependency on faith. By the way this is only an example I am not writing here to be convinced about nrsimadeva. I hope I have made myself clear to you shiva

Thanks for all the good replies, wise words have been said by all. I was hoping that someone would post something along the lines of 'the ancients spoke within the boundries of their mythological conceptions but it does not reduce the deep essences of spirituality they were conveying' or 'eggazerration and spicing up stories adds to the flavour but try to take the gift and not its wrapping' I have tried and tried to view otherwise but I cannot maintain that perspective and feel quite gullable and this is a big obstical for my developement of faith. I know it is ok for me view things my way if the goal and procedure is fixed the same but I doubt my own experiances and intelligence it is so easy to become accostemed to a mode of acceptance which I feel would be insincere. So I was hoping someone with a respected devotional record would make me feel at ease about my approach or that many would say similar thing lending support to my theoretical approach. Thankyou all for a very nice mood and a desire to lend a hand to a struggling soul. Hare Krishna syama

Thanks for the good advice Audarya lila Prabhu. I am trying.

No you are not talking cow doo, I do need a perspective which will allow me to accept in good faith those things which seem too far fetched to be real, but I was hoping for a perspective which allowed them to be unreal and still facilitate faith rather than trying to accept them as a reality that my ignorance disables me from being able to appreciate. I hope it is Karmic rather than genetic obstical (I wanted to put a winking smiling face there for you but don't know how to do that either)

Yes it is this kind of sweetness and depth of sincere feeling that is most attractive if I could run on the fuel of the acharyas sentiments alone I would be a happy dasa but alas my heart is too far from theirs for me to be able sustain my faith on my small appreciation of their character & realisation alone, thanks Prabhu.

Thanks for the interest raga but I am looking for a more overall mode of approach rather than adressing a single point. For me personally I see this situation arise again and again and am hoping for someone who has a similar view but found harmony in their perspective to give a hint of how to avoid such dilemmas through a change of vision. For many years I just bypassed such things concentrating on that which I could draw meaning and faith from. But for a couple of years now I find myself in a completely different state of mind altogether and need some wise direction. Adressing specifics will go off at tangents and lead to avenues my mind is trying to avoid, thanks for your desire to help.

Hare Krishna. I need help or advice in being able to maintain faith whilst confronted with so many irrational descriptions. I want to have strong Faith in Krsna Conciousness but I always wobble when confronted with mythological descriptions being presented as real. I am not looking for statements along the lines of 'the mind, intelligence & rationality and logic can not go there so just believe and accept on the strength of the experiences which have already prooved this paths validity' I cannot just believe. I am looking for some guidence from hopefully others who have made compromise and reconcilliation after being presented with similar difficulty. I know some of you may know me and know I am saying the same thing for over a year now but I am stuck at this point and it is so frustrating like having a cake and not able to eat it. Any sincere help would be greatly appreciated. thanks syama

If I slap your face then it was your karma to recieve that slap so where is the question of freewill on my part? it seems like it was pre-ordained in which case how am I responsible & why should I recieve a reaction for something which was inevitable?

I never saw it that way untill recently someone told me that on a scale of advancement plant life is above aquatic life and the conciousness of aquatics is less than that of plants I remarked "what about a whale" but a whale is a mammal came the reply. He assured me he knew what the vedic opinion was and I took it at face value. But then I began to wonder how an entity with higher developed senses could be seen as less developed than an entity with no apparent senses. If anyone knows the actual tattva here I would be intrested to know as I always associated karma (the retributional suffering side of it that is) with pain believing we have to recieve measure for measure that which we dish out i n order to know how it feels to behave in such a way and therefore grow beyond it. But surely an aquatics nervous system and therefore its ability to percieve pain is more advanced than that of a plant. I dont know any help is appreciated but when I get these little niggly wonderings of the mind I like to sort them out. Thanks

There are numerous quotes from Srila Prabhupada on christ that leave the impression that Prabhupada saw jesus as a pure representitive of God. Admittedly he did use time place circumstance preaching techniques that often involved christianity but the overall impression is that of great respect and admiration for Christ by HDG Srila Prabhupada.

I am wandering about the eating of fish. If according to vedas fish is of lower conciousness than vegetation and one is not offering their food first for sacrifice, is there a greater karmic reaction taking the life of vegetables than fish?

Pete I too am totally stuck with this point. Someone earlier suggested "if it is too hot jump in the sea, philosophy", this is standard because for a intellectually honest person no religious system or religious philosophy can answer this dilemma thoroughly. In the end it comes down to what makes you happy and if the happiness you are recieving outweighs the 'need to know'spiritual dilemmas, then it no longer matters and one can enjoy his spiritual pursuit. When you are stuck at a point that prevents your faith from growing on a path your heart is attracted to, and due to this you can't apply anymore faith it is a horribly upsetting and frustrating place to be, I wish you find the answers you need and hope you will enlighten me when you do, but I have exhausted all my enquiries and have found no satisfactory answers, there will always be objections and loopholes within any given answer which is why all religion is based on faith only.

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