gurukul

You maybe right about your information about thier becoming rich and their oppression ,but dont get confused between the colonial rule and christianity.The colonials were not true followers of christ.If you study carefully the colonial britishers did not allow christian missionaries in india due to fear of enlightenments.William carey who landed in india as a missionary was denied permission but he landed in kolkota and established the first printing press,translated literatures in 40 diffrent languages ,fought against the britishers to stop the practise of sati,taught bengali in the university ,helped the poor and needy etc.his childrens ,wife all died in India serving the community.such and many other examples against the colonial rule abound in indian history but oblivion to the major masses.

If you read my post carefully,I did not say anything against the vedic civilisation.I was merely responding to guest's query.

namaste guest Your question:Why do tribals not feeling guilty or sin? Ans :How do you know that all the tribals dont feel guilty? when you look at some tribal customs with some having animistic practices you will find there is the sense of guilt when they break their own law.for example some tribals who practice eating humans dont eat their own wives and children or even tribes men. secondly ,We dont know all that is moral and immoral ,good or evil,sin and righteousness we need a divine revelation to understand it.But for knowing the basic understanding that we are sinners we know it for sure through the guilt that arises when we break even our own moral laws. your second question :if our ancestors were so much depressed and felt guilty , surely we could not have such great art, music, architecture, philoshopies and in short a great culture.? Ans :well I did not say anywere that our ancestors were depressed because of sin and guilt.what I said is that sin is real and so is guilt and we all (including our ancestors) felt it at some point or the other. I never said that beacuse of sin there could not be great art ,music ,philosophy,architecture great culture etc.I request you to please read my post carefully and not make faulty premise and conclusions. 3.while I am aware of the stupidity of some christians and their church ,I am also impressed by the work of many christians and the churches who rose against evil like sati,opression of the poor and the weak,slavery etc and empowerment and development through education (schools ,hostels and universities),communication ,setting up the first printing press in India (william carey),scientific discoveries by some great and fine christian scientist (issac newton,johann kepler,robert boyle,lord kelvin,louis pasteur,michel faraday,john ray etc.),community care through hospitals and mercy ministries.

namaste narayandasa and guest My point is not that everything would be realised without the law revealed in religious book but the point was that we all at some or the other way feel the guilt and feel the sin within and outside.For such a thing we need no book to declare that we all are sinners.my above answer was a response to the particular question raised by guest weather I was using the bible to declare a person as sinners.my point was that sin is real and its consequences are surely felt.our freind guest denied that there is such thing as sin in the context of hinduism.my response is that we dont need a religion to know we are sinners.its a reality and felt in everyday of our lives.at the same time I quoted that the description of sin is even mentioned in hindu scriptures. Coming to your statment-YES -HUMANS INHERITENTLY KNOWS TO SOME EXTENT (though not to the full extent) THAT HE IS SINNING SOME OR THE OTHER WAY.ITS REALISED ,FELT THROUGH GUILT.THE MORAL LAW WHEN REVEALED WITHIN THE FEELING CONFIRMS THAT ITS A SIN.WE SURELY NEED THE LAW TO SHOW IT AND CONFIRM IT BUT NOT REQUIRED TO SHOW THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE SINNERS BECAUSE ITS ALREADY FELT IN REALITY EVEN WITHOUT A BOOK.for example the first time I masterbated thinking of some other girl/women in my teens ,I felt the guilt within for long time.so was the confession of my friends.we were not religious or read any religious book to tell us that we are doing something bad.but we felt it.over the time period we supressed that guilt feeling and began to wildly fantacise things through films ,magzines ,porn sites ,imagining someones sister ,wife etc.when the religious law came to me It only confirmed that i am a sinner and helpless and need of cleansing and saving.so were the other areas like telling lies to parents,anger,jealosuy ,feeling of fighting etc. Reality shows we are helpless and in need of grace to get saved. to answer guest-christians dont say that they are sinless and thus happy hereafter once they put their faith in Jesus christ.thats a mere speculation.As a christ yeshu bhakta and my study of the bible -its yeshu christ who saves his followers from the consequence of sin of future Judgement with the assurance in the present.As a result of that assurance there is a security in the heart about life after death.The bible says " The wages of sin is death (eternal seperation from God into hell) but the gift of God is eternal life (life with God in heaven) through Jesus christ the lord (Romans 3:23;6:23)

namaste, Is sin a propoganda? I am not Just quoting the bible or christians to say we are sinners but quoting reality or observation and the bible is just one such book that says we are sinners.The gayatri mantra says Om ksantavyah kayiko dosah ksantavyo vaciko mama, ksantavyo manasa dosah tat pramadat ksamasva mam. or Forgive my sinful deed, forgive my wrong speech, forgive my sinful mind, forgive me for all those misdeeds. Even as per our own law of dharma sutras and law of karma we are guilty of sin.if there is no sin then we dont have to worry about rebirths , varna ,good and evil and even punish acts that are evil. Swami vivekananda said "Its a sin to call a person a sinner" but then what do we call a person who commit sin or evil act? what do you call a person who even does any one of these things like -lies,cheats ,swindles money,lust with some other women/girl other than his wife,jealous ,anger, kills etc? The reality is that there is an inclination and tendency in every human nature to do something thats not right.NO ONE NEEDS A BOOK TO SAY THAT THAT SIN IS REAL WITHIN US AND AROUND US. Can you say for sure that you never felt guilty of wrong doing? Can you say for sure and honestly that you have never sin in anyone area mentioned above?

Namaste , All I said is in the context of reality (-what is) which is what the bible also talks about. I dont need a christian or a religous book to say that I am a sinner.I have experienced guilt as a hindu whenever I do a wrong thing.what should you call a man who commits evil things?-a holy man?? if there is no sin as per hinduism then what is law of karma? ,dharma sutras? what happens when a person breaks these laws? -what do you call them- a righteous man??? why does rebirths occur as per hinduism if there is no sin? Thankfully there is no rebirths as per the bible.according to it its only one life we live and then stand before God for all our actions and beliefs. You and I are sinners not because a book declares but because sin is real and is felt by you and me.its a constant reality that we often try to supress.guilt is felt when sin occurs.because sin is real and we are not prefect in morality no matter what we do ,we need someone to save us and thats were I am attracted to christ and his mission to save mankind from all guilt and sin and its effect.That is why Jesus said "If the son (jesus) sets you free then you are free indeed". I have personally experienced this freedom from guilt after I became a christ yeshu bhakta.

All I said is in the context of reality (-what is) which is what the bible also talks about. I dont need a christian or a religous book to say that I am a sinner.I have experienced guilt as a hindu whenever I do a wrong thing.what should you call a man who commits evil things?-a holy man?? if there is no sin as per hinduism then what is law of karma? ,dharma sutras? what happens when a person breaks these laws? -what do you call them- a righteous man??? why does rebirths occur as per hinduism if there is no sin? Hence you and I are sinners not because a book declares but because sin is real and is felt by you and me.its a constant reality that we often try to supress.guilt is felt when sin occurs.because sin is real and we are not prefect in morality no matter what we do ,we need someone to save us and thats were I am attracted to christ and his mission to save mankind from all guilt and sin and its effect.That is why Jesus said "If the son (jesus) sets you free then you are free indeed".I have personally experienced this freedom from guilt after I became a christ yeshu bhakta.

scholar ,your ignorance is leading you to not only Judge the established accounts of history but also in your attempt to prove your theory to be right you are judging what I am and am not. let me ask you humbly-Are you a hindu or an aethist? which religion and faith is yours? It will help me to know through what worldview you are speaking all these things. I am a hindu by my birth and remain a hindu till I die as that's how parameshwar has placed me here in India.In my faith for now I am a christ bhakta.For long I followed many gods who could bring me assurance of forgiveness from my sins ,peace within ,freedom from guilt,transformation within ,hope of life with God after death etc.no amount of karma ,faith could satisfy my hungry soul to assurance of all the above.further -neither my gods whom i revered were following the dharma sutras fully to offer me freedom. Finally as a hindu, following and knowing christ as his bhakta liberated me from the bondage,fear of guilt and sin and further it transformed my life to a new way with great assurance of life ahead.the presence of christ is real to me everyday and i experience him everyday. Namaste

I,as a hindu who is a christ bhakta cant stop believing (just because someone says jesus never existed) that history begins with the most authoritative dating with Jesus christ.The events of the histories is calculated based on Before christ (BC) and Anna-domini (AD).was this dating a great forgery done by the scholars of that time?.If that is so then the whole world is a fool except for our few "wise" freinds who denies Jesus existence.both -those who forged and those who found it out ("wise mens") to be forged be nominated for an oscar.Rest watch the function. If I wanted to forge a religion why should I use a criminal (The romans usually placed only criminals on the cross) who was mercilesly whipped ,spat,beaten and brutally killed with other criminals.I could have used a better person like superman or phantom or spiderman who triumphed over all evils.what gain is there to create and die a brutal death which I know it to be absolutely false?.history records the brutal killings of the followers of Jesus chirst that includes Thomas who came to India and was killed while spreading a "false religion".that sounds too absurd for me.I am sure he could have been better at home than to be killed (which he knew to be false) in the thick forests of India during that time. Commenting against the two thousand years of well established ,verified ,scrutinised and authoritative history is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. The whole problem today is that the ancient history is faultily placed into the modern context of seeing everything politically motivated. When I look at hospitals,schools,colleges,printing press,railways,orphanages,old age homes,ramabai's mukti mission for the helpless girls,ashrams ,leprosorums etc started by christians ages back in India (for whatever reasons may be )bringing India into recent developments with other countries and also seeing lives of many christians who sacrificed their homes,comfort,family,relatives, wealth, status to work selflessly -requires of me a great faith to accept its a forged faith that is based on lie.

YOUR RESPONSE :If somebody breaks into my garden and eats an apple, may be at the worst i may shout at him, would NEVER curse for him and ALL his generations to follow to suffer.... and then give some exemptions to his generations that whoever shouts my name need not suffer... MY RESPOPNSE :I THINK YOU HAVE AGAIN MISSED THE POINT.THE POINT IS NOT ABOUT EATING APPLES BUT ABOUT TRESSPASSING THE LAW.EACH LAW HAS DIFFRENT PUNISHMENTS AS PER ITS RULE SET.FOR EXAMPLE PEOPLE WHO BARGED INTO PARILIAMENT TO ATTACK LED TO THEIR EXECUTION AND IF THE SAME ACT WOULD HAVE HAPPNED IN MY HOUSE IT WOULD BE JUST A SMALL PUNISHMENT.HENCE THE HIGHER THE PERSON GOES TO SIN AGAINST A AUTHORIOTY THE HIGHER THE PUNISHMENT.

namaste guest, Gurukul here.I think you are not reading my post properly.let me take your questions and then answer it (IN CAPS) so that it will be clear. Your question:If enjoying Senusal pleasures (Legitimate) is a SIN, then who is the most sinner, me or who had CREATED that sensual pleasure in the first place? Answer :I NEVER SAID IF YOU READ CAREFULLY THAT LEGITIMATE PLEASURES ARE SIN.THEY ARE GIVEN BY GOD TO US HENCE GOOD.WHAT I SAID IS THE LEGITIMATE BECOMES ILLIGITIMATE WHEN PRACTISED OUTSIDE ITS BOUNDRIES.FOR EXAMPLE :SEX WITH A WOMEN PRACTISED OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.LIKE SEX WITH SOMEONES ESLE WIFE ,PROSTITUTE ,LUSTING AFTER A WOMEN WHO IS SOMEONES ELSE WIFE ,LOOKING AT A WOMEN OTHER THAN YOUR WIFE -ALL THIS IS SIN AND ILLIGITIMATE.SEX WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE IS NOT A SIN.OTHER EXAMPLES OF ILLGETIMATE SINS ARE LYING ,CHEATING ,ROBBING ,SWINDLING ,UNWANTED ANGER ETC. HENCE THERE IS A CLEAR DISTINGUSIH BETWEEN A LEGITIMATE EXPRESSION AND ILLIGITIMATE PRACTISE THAT CAUSES SIN.THESE ILLIGITIMATE PRACTICES ARE NOT GIVEN BY GOD BUT ARE AN ABSENCE OF GOOD. YOUR QUESTION:If i had not committed any illegtimate act , then what is the need for repetenance and how do i get sin? ANS:LOOK AT THE ABOVE LIST-JUST A FEW AND SEE WEATHER YOU HAVE SINNED OR NOT.JUST A SMALL EXAMPLE OF SIN CANALSO BE LYING ,JEALOUSY,LOOKING AT A WOMEN LUSTFULLY,DISHONESTY ETC -BE HONEST TO CHECK.WE ALL FALL SOMEWERE IN ONE CATEGORY OR THE OTHER SOMETIMES ALL AND HENCE SIN. If i don't need repetenance then what is the need of God? I THINK READING JUST FEW LIST OF SIN FROM ABOVE LEADS US TO KNOW THAT WE FALL SOMEWERE OR THE OTHER AND HENCE IN NEED OF REPENTANCE.IN EVERY MAN THERE IS AN INCLINATION TO SIN THATS WHAT WE CALL INHERITING THE SIN.I AM SURE NO ONE ESCAPES THE FEELING OF GUILT IN THIS WORLD. your question:you imply by your saying that all people who believe in Christ are sinners? ANS:NO-I DIDNT SAY THAT.EVERY PERSON BORN IN THIS WORLD SINS SOME OR THE OTHERWAY AND HENCE ARE GUILTY OF SIN.IN JESUS CHRIST GOD PROVIDES ALL OF US AN ESCAPE ROUTE TO BE FORGIVEN AND BE SAVED.WITHOUT SACRIFICE OF PRAJAPATI YAGNAHA THE DIVINE AND PERFECT SACRIFICE AS PER VEDAS AND JEWISH SCRIPTURES THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

Namaste narayandsasa The soul or spirit as viewed in biblical worlview is one with the body though they are distinguished.The soul or spirit does not transmigrate or change to another body through rebirths as understood in Hinduism and buddhism.The biblical view is that God created every soul,spirit and body in his divine nature.hence all humans are equal because they all are created from his divine nature.But due to sin and disobedience they inherit the sinful nature and thus we see- all humans have an inclination to sin.at the day of Judgement those who belived Jesus chirst through repentance will receive a transformed body (resurrected body like Jesus himself) to be with God in heaven.therefore its not Just the soul but the whole soul,spirit and body that will be transformed like Jesus and will be eternal. Adam and Eve were the first living human beings on this planet as taught in the bible and were created good.they were not ignorant.God did warn them of the evil consequences that will follow because of rebellion but gave them the free choice to decide.If there would have been no free choice they would have been mere robots with one track direction or we could call in hindi katputli or puppets. We did not inherit ignorance because we all understand to greater extent good and evil.what we have inherited is the fallen adamic nature to sin in the midst of choice. As per the bible ,since the penalty of sin is upoun all mankind and its punishment is obvious ,God himself provides an escape route.He comes down through a special means of virigin birth so that he cannot inherit the sinful nature of mankind and becomes a perfect sacrifice for all mankind through events that happened in Israel.Hence the way that a person can find forgiveness of sins and its penalty is knowing ,beleiving and accepting that sacrifice.this restores back the relationship with God through his son yeshu christ the supreme sacrifice or the prajapati yagnaha (God himself is the sacrifice).

Namaste sreeman guest. what will happen if all the sensual pelasures ,senses are practised within no limits and boundries by everyone in this world? .is it only God who goes mad when things are practised out of limits? what about law , you and me? dont we all get mad when we see Rape ,incest , chir haran , hooking somebodys wife ,passing comments on our own sisters ,terrorism ,Fightings ,relationship problems etc. Are all these legitimate practise Just because they are given to us as senses and we are free to practise it? or do you think they should not have been given to us? Can we have infinite freedom? As you began to answer all the question above to yourself you will realise why God intervenes at times when illigetimate practises happens. Namste Gurukul

namaste shiv, The struggle of all humans is surely to find freedom from sin ,suffering,and death.Just like our vedic prayers says "lead me from mortality to immortality ,from darkness to light and from falsehood to truth." But how is that attained is the big question which all tries to answer.can all be true ? ;can all be false ? or only one is true?- is the biggest question does all human struggle.The real human struggles only comes when he sees that there is a great contradiction to accept all to be true.And a contradictory statement cannot be at the same time in the same sense. for example if you say I am wearing a white shirt and freind narayan says its black and I say its red all cannot be true at the same time in the same sense. lets see what the various view says : Moksha in Hindusim :To be united with brahman the supreme being through brahma vidya and good works .moksha hence is a realisation that he is brahman.hence come to a state of unity with brahman. Nirvana or buddhism :To flee from personal desires that results in endless cycle of rebirths.hence nirvana is getting away from personal desires that causes selfishness through the eight noble paths to come to a state of nonexistance.here there is no brahman or any God or gods. The salavation in Islam :To submit to allah and the teachings of muhammed.the paradise in islam is a place of pleasure were a person enjoys allah with also other things as wine and virgins. Biblical Salvation :Is God's initiative to save all mankind through belief in his son Jesus christ.this salvation begins on the earth when a person accepts God's provision of salvation that was accomplished in the death and resurrection (coming back to life from death)of his son Jesus chirst.It completes in a place called heaven where God himself dwells and here the person enjoys his infinite presence through relationship with him eternally.In this place is absence of all sorrow ,pain ,suffering ,death etc Hence if you note above diffrence -if I have to accept Buddhism then I have to deny divine beings and also come to a point of nothing which stands in contradiction with other religions of having divine being or beings and also heaven ,paradise,brahman so is the case of other religions.I cannot have both and adjust some and reject others because the moment I do that I create another religious view which stands in contradiction with others.I cannot have heaven and not have heaven at the same time ,have God and not have God at the same time,earn freedom through good works and not earn through good works at the same time. parameshwar guide you. gurukul

namaste narayandasa I am a hindu but a yeshu christ bhakta and have read the Bible. There is a vast diffrence in moksha and salvation with its destinations.hindu beleif is getting freed from the karma samsara or cycle of births and law of karma and getting union with the brahman (impersonal-cannot ascribe personality,nirguna -cannot ascribe quality and one with all-everything flows from him) from whom all humans proceeds through brahmavidya or self effort. The biblical view is that the creation and creator (supreme ,personal and infinite) is seperate. The creation is ascribed with free will (will to choose) to obey or disobey against God the person with consequences in both (good-reward and evil-punishment).The first human adam and eve choose to disobey by breaking the command given to them and thus fell in sin that brought death and suffering.There was a legal pronouncement of human being fallen in sin.thus every person born into this world inherits the nature or inclination to sin.This sin also resulted into seperation from God in relationship with him. Salvation thus was to bring back this relationship for eterntiy with God which was impossible through human effort because all are under the power of sin and inherited the sinful nature.God in his love promises to restore this relationship through prajapatiyagnaha or divine sacrifice.so that mankind can back again relate with him. Thus at a point of history through a specific events in the nation of Israel the prajapatiyagnaha or divine sacrifice Jesus christ comes and was killed in ignorance of humankind and rise back from the dead.During that crucifixion the sin of the whole world was dealt with and the legal penalty of sin paid.so the salvation comes through believing in that sacrifice of Jesus christ on the cross and resurrection.A person is said to be transformed in his body like the person of Jesus on the great Judgement day and thus escapes the Judgement that has come due to sin.he/she is said to be in a place called heaven (place were God dwells)with eternal relationship with him forever with ecastic Joy. Thus moksha is being one with brahman as humans flow from him through selfeffort of realisation , salavation is being with him in relationship forever from power of sin and death and is an inititative from God to save and not from human works. I hope this breif answer helps to get the whole picture.If you need more information then be free to write back. namaste.