theist

I wasn't so much of thinking in terms of ISKCON or any other institution. I was thinking of Prithu das personally. I don't know him or much about him but had ocassion to attend a function at his ashram in Vrndavan once. He seemed very gentle on that day. We all have our issues and moments.

I would also love to hear these explained. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yes this cosmos is certainly amazing. That sense of wonder and amazment we all can cultivate. It is also the only truly valuable thing that will come from the scientific endeavor. The mere facts and figures, dry calculations and theories are of themselves useless, that is, only of some temporary "trickle down" benefit to the society. So continue by all means. I also try. What I have seen though is also the dark side of this debate. People have actually given up faith and stopped chanting over this moon controversy. Seriously. So I am hoping we can talk of these things and at the same time keep our mind on the real essence of Srimad Bhagavatam. That will be to our eternal benefit.

I agree yet again with gHari. It all sounds like good news to me. This soul has come to grips with with a major dark spot in his pysche. The battle is really on. Some will abandon him, his friends will not. I believe in this Prithu das and in the Krsna who is supporting him. What lies hidden in our own? It takes courage to even look let alone engage in battle. Is there a lesson in this crisis of his for us? I see several. Krsna will surely see to his victory.

Krsna can and has created everything including time and space. I find it interesting but not surprising that the thread was about the spiritual world expanding but we couldn't even speculate on that so we went for the material world instead. hehe That problem is sure to arise as we try to impose our concept of size onto the spiritual world like "how big is it?let me get out my tape measure and see" Reminds me of when the cowherd boys brought the matter of Krsna eating clay to Mother Yashoda's attention. She checked His lotus mouth for evidence and saw all the universes manifested inside. No need to try to figure out how it could all possibly fit into one little boy. That would be going backward for us. We accept it as a blissful reality. Another of Krsna's wonderful pastimes with His devotees.

Never hear that from me. Srila Prabhupada wrote in a Gita Purport "blind following is condemned.." This is an old topic for me. For all I care the Srimad Bhagavatam is simply not correct as it describes the planetary situation. That is not what I am looking for when I read it anyway. Personally there are a lot of interesting theories being proposed. Very deep. Which to me just raises another question. Why would the Bhagavatam be spoken with such hidden meanings concerning the structure of the universe to the people of this planet/dimension that would be certain to misunderstand it? Unless we are to suppose those in the vedic age understood Quantum mechanics and String theory. Doesn't the Bhagavatam also say it is self illuminating? But like I say to me it's just a beautiful globe in the sky.

The explanations really helped open up to me many things I never noticed before, nor likely to ever notice.

to the above two posts. Yes Krsna is my best friend as He is to everyone but am I His friend? If not then how to become His friend? It will help if one of His already established friends introduces us as his friend and then Krsna may say "Any friend of my friend is a friend of mine". So we all say that we accept that Prabhupada is Krsna's friend. But are we Prabhupada's friend? If not already thus established we then should try to become the friend of someone who is Prabhupada's friend to gain some entrance into that circle. This is very natural. Nothing exceedingly mystical about it. No need for secret handshakes and more than just arcane rituals. Friendship is more than just that, it's personal. A friend helps his friend in a time of need or with a project that is very important to them. Prabhupada has shown a need to push on Krsna Consciousness. Increase and increase, into every corner. This is his only project. Other than that he has no needs or ambitions. So to become Krsna's friend we must serve the interest of His friends. That is also His only need. There is no artifical way into Krsna rasa. No need to try and jump into SB tenth canto. Krsna will attract us in if it's to be. There is a saying that no one can take the Kingdom of God by force. I can't even recognize Krsna in sunlight so why should I assume I can find Him behind some bush in Vrndavan? Presently,somewhere behind the tilak, beads, dhoti and inscense I exist in a sewer like whirlpool of envy towards the Supreme Lord. I dare to challenge Him and doubt Him. I am in dire need of a heavy shot of awe and reverence. Lord, please have mercy.

But not being sure is robbing your mind of peace. If you get it checked you can put it behind you. Some years ago a friend of mine noticed a dark mole like thing on my back. I had seen it before and had it for years. I only thought about it when it itched. The next time she came over she brought this color chart she picked up at her doctor's office and this blotch on my back looked exactly like something that appears when one has melanoma, skin cancer. Same coloring, same size and irregular shape. It even itched. I was really worried then and I couldn't stop thinking about it. I started mentally preparing for death.lol I swear I can really get overly dramatic sometimes. She finally convinced me to have it checked. I went to get a biopsy. It turned out to be nothing. I was so relieved. Even if it had been something knowing would still have been the best option. Not knowing is the worst position.

No where have I or will I tell anyone that an eclipse is anything different then what you described. I will stay distant from trying to figure out any particulars about the Moon. To me I just see it as a very beautiful object in the sky. I am satisfied with that.

http://www.milksucks.com

You should not be embarassed to go to a doctor and ask. No one else will be able to answer and even a doctor will need to edamine them to say for sure. But don't just hide them under cosmwtics and hope to forget about them. Get them checked out so you will know for sure. The only embarassment we should feel over the body is that we have developed a material body to try and enjoy through in the first place.

The inaction by the UN and the other __shole so-called leaders in the world is already inspiring the rise of private armies. Goggle on Executive Outcome. I am not totally comfortable with this but the US is stretched way too thin to help much other than raise the issue which Powell is doing. It may be the only option and perhaps it is the way to go. I'm not sure. But these people need some serious help NOW.

I had never heard of the Canis Major dwarf galaxy. These numbers are absoluting inconceivable to me. My mind gets fuzzy after just a few miles. All I can say is "OH MY GOD!!!!" as I bow down.

No, I am not suggesting that we ignore the facts. Yes we must search for the truth but that means the self and Superself not the moon. Even if we learn to the cm. how far the moon is from Calcutta what have we gained? How will it help us in our search for the truth. I happen to accept the modern scientific views on the structure of the planetary systems over what we read in the Puranas. But I accept what the Srimad Bhagavatam says about the soul and Supersoul as above anything that modern science can offer. Such knowledge of ourselves and the Supreme Lord and what our relationship is is the essential thing we MUST find out, the essential truth. I agree that since we don't know we must take knowledge from authorities on the subject. Personally, and many herer may disagree with me on this, but I tend to accept the modern science as it pertains to things observable, on the gross level and ignore them when they start to speculate on God and things of the spirit. Afterall their instruments cannot possibly probe into the transcendental realm so what can they possibly tell us. Of course a scientist can also have knowledge of God, like many here are learned in that field also, but my point is he gained that knowledge of God apart from his telescopes and microscopes. If some devotees want to believe the universe is only 4 billion miles in diameter that is up to them. But hopefully they won't try to convince others of that. Just look at the numbers Avinash has listed. 4 billion is just way too small I believe. This question comes up a lot. I am posting a letter Srila Prabhupada sent in response to one of his disciples making a similar inquiry which was causing him doubts. Hare Krsna mini -------------------- Letter to: Krsnadasa -- Vrindaban 7 November, 1972 72-11-07 My Dear Krsnadasa, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that vedaham samatitani vartamanani carjuna bhavisyani ca bhutani mam tu veda na kascana [bg. 7.26] that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise. But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version: gam avisya ca bhutani dharayamy aham ojasa pusnami causadhih sarvah somo bhutvah rasatmakah (BG, 15.13) ``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know. ------------ (mine) Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and you mam evam asammudho janati purusottamam sa sarva-vid bhajati mam (BG, XV, 19) ``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

I forgot his name. Mansoor Ijaz, a very level headed guy. I got a kick out of that response above. Clinton couldn't get him because he was already too involved with the devil in the blue dress, Monica. Yeah well, I guess one has to prioritize. lol

That's a great choice Pankaja. It's all about the cows. How can we become kind while contributing to their slaughter? You are also very right about the attitude. Many vegans get almost almost as self-righteous as religionists over this point. We are still killing plants. Small animals and insects die when plant food is harvested for us by this monterous machines. We step on insects etc. The only truly non-violent beings are the Krsna conscious ones and they just aren't interested in being puffed up. But humble or proud we must protect the cows and other animals. Maybe spend some time reading about the process that is modern dairy farming and that will strengthen your resolve. Maybe more devotees will become successful in their cow protection programs and provide sattvik milk again, that is milk produced from cows who are cared for in a proper manner. Until then it's a boycott of that evil industry.

I believe you are confusing the Milky Way with the Doughnut Mandala. mini, There are statements in the Purana's that differ greatly with some of the modern discoveries of science. Srila Prabhupada spoke according to the Purana's but also said that it wasn't very important for us to worry about. He wanted everyone to concentrate on our spiritual essence and not jsut wrapped up in this lesser controversies. Sometimes allegories are presented in the scriptures and we don't recognize them as such. But the material scientists are only working through their imperfect senses and giving out theories that are often overturned in a few years in favor of a new theory by someone else so we shouldn't trust them to much. In the final analysis where these planetary bodies are in space relative to Earth is of no importance. Hare Krsna

4 billion miles diameter to the universe. Avinash, can you tell tell us what the current scientific thinking is on say the diameter of the Milky Way galaxy? And how far from the edge of the Milky Way to the edge of the nearest galaxy? And then what is the estimated number of galaxies? Thank you And all this folks is just Dr. Frog trying to imagine the Pacific Ocean by comparing it to his well. We are not called atomic souls for nothing.

time? Good excercise for the mind and brain. We can stretch them out to their farthest limit and they will become strong and supple by our doing so. It also will build within us a desire to know. Then hopefully the Supersoul will pull us into eternity so that we may *know*. For now I just assume whatever I am conceiving can't be the reality in truth. Maybe we can get some sort of "reasonable facsimile" until then to keep us going.

we develop the wrong goal and lose focus. It is not that one practices Krsna consciousness to learn to give up sex life but rather one gives up sex life to help develop Krsna consciousness. But if that is not within one's make up to do at this time then engage the sex life in the development of Krsna consciousness. Celibacy is not the goal.

Last year I heard the man who was the go-between for Clinton and the government of Sudan talking about how the Sudanese offered Clinton Bin-Laden, who was living in the Sudan at the time, but Clinton turned them down. People still fawn over that creep. Clinton cultists. I shouldn't be surprised since they do the same for Michael Jackson.

there is no vaccum. But I have also heard this question posed and pondered by physicists. I am not saying any propose this as a theory, some may I wouldn't know. just that it is a subject that some have contemplated. Yes that was the point. What is the dough expanding into. It was just some interesting thoughts that troubled some in that field. Things that make one go hmmm...? They say that it all started with the Big Bang. That was a specific event at a specific time. And from that explosion all that is was set in motion and is still expanding. So it could not have already expanded everywhere unlimitedly. So from any point in time that we check it's progress of expansion it must be expanding into something. And since it is space/time that is expanding what could it(S/T) possibly be expanding into. It is an impossible question for them. I think the show was dealing mostly with theories on the death of the universe. Some were saying that if everything is constantly expanding at some point every space body will become so distant from every other one that everything would become virtually alone. They had some idea on how gravitational forces would be weakened and weakened, orbits broken etc. I saw this sometime ago and don't remember that much and even as I watched it I couldn't follow most of what they were saying anyway. I just remember thinking of what a bleak, cold, lonely,and depressed view of existence they were conceiving of.

Well there are several things they can do about it. First thing is not to take part in it. Chanting certainly. Vegans can also chant and be devotees. Pass out vegan foodstuffs that has been offered to Krsna. Plus set a good example for others by not taking part in cow slaughter. Has does it look to preach about cow protection while drinking milk from enslaved cows destined for slaughter who have had their male children snatched from them at birth and slaughtered for veal. Does the word hypocritical come to mind? Example is better than precept. Educating the society is what this mission is all about. We shouldn't preach that which we refuse to practice. Someone preaching cow protection shuld not be daily partaking in the products that cause their slaughter. I think you just don't want to confronted with the need to give up something you like, milk. If you will notice that article I posted above was written by the vegan devotee Priyavrata who is in charge of the Food For Life program. What would happen? Leaving aside health issues one can see that a few less cows would be tortured and slaughtered and devotees would not look so hypocritical on this issue. Besides just consider this yourself. Are you sure you want to offer this milk from murdered cows to Krsna? Why not offer Krsna milk from protected cows only? No such milk close by? Then how about almond or cashew milk instead? He is Gopala, the Cowherd Boy. The cowherd boys were first given the responsibility of watching over the calves. Do you think they will allow calve killers into Their play in the forest of Vrndavan? He is Govinda, He gives pleasure to cows. He does not milk them like machines and then slaughter them when the bag runs dry.

Read this on Vina. VINA.CC ATTACKED FROM AFGHANISTAN by our WVA correspondent in Vrindavan Our web-site has been victimized by three attacks already this year, incapacitating www.vina.cc for a few days. Our system administrator was able to trace back the first attack (in January) to Afghanistan. Could it be that the Taliban or even Al Qaeda are attacking us? Well, we do not wish to cast any unfounded blame, but a server attack from Afghanistan raises certain suspicions. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati declared total war against illusion, so opposition is a good sign. It shows that somebody is taking us seriously. We wish that more Vaishnavas from India and abroad would take us as seriously as our hackers do (in a positive sense)—serious as a tool to promote non-sectarian Vaishnavism, serious as a tool to promote your different preaching activities. With the blessings of all Vaishnavas we can show the world the Unity and Diversity of Vaishnavism. We do not wish to report the conflicts which arise due to the influence of the age of kali; there are other web-sites serving that purpose. Thanks to our hackers for acknowledging the importance of www.vina.cc. (And please give our system administrator a break!)