Bhakta Don Muntean

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Janus:

 

I said 'Are you saying Shrila Prabhupada made a mistake?

 

Then you say:

 

>>Oh yes, most definitly. He trusted "you", sorry, but I'm sorry that I wasn't there to inform him that a rope that he had holding close to his heart was a snake.

Reply:

 

What are you muttering about here?!

 

>>Now if you don't like it you can take your whole dog and pony show and entertain someone else with your fantasy that you are worthy to chant Krsna's name.

 

Reply:

 

If you don't like it you can take your 'Browsing' to a different String you don't have to look at this String--huh?

 

>>At least I know that I'm not Bhakta Don.

 

Reply:

 

That's Right!

 

>> It is the right however of anyone who is not a disciple of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to say what they may, ann only your right to defend him against any allegations.

 

Reply:

 

So where did I deviate? Your "say what they may"--part goes two ways.

 

>>That none of you have shown yourselves capable of doing, and your lame ass attempts at trying to do so I ownly find humiliating.

 

Reply:

 

Sort of what we see you doing?

 

>>Humiliating because I just so happen to share the same species with you.

 

Reply:

 

You are a Spirit Soul--you are not some "species"!

 

>>That does not mean however that I do not consider that it is beyond one of you to call into the tomb and bid Lazarus to come forth or some other miracle, for that is just exactly what it is going to take.

 

Reply:

 

Huh? Me a Miracle Worker?

 

I am a Servant of the Servant of the Servant of the Servant of God--at most.

 

>>Do I believe in miracles? Yes, but then again I also believe that God is just and that sets me trembling and not for myself Prabhu's. Hari bol

 

Reply:

 

Dear Janus--I have not been unjust, I have nothing to be guilty for as you poorly Charge--I also believe Strongly in "Miracles" those of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu--and His Pure Devotee are here now for all to Witness and Partake!

 

Your servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-08-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Janus:

 

I said 'Are you saying Shrila Prabhupada made a mistake?

 

Then you say:

 

>>Oh yes, most definitly. He trusted "you", sorry, but I'm sorry that I wasn't there to inform him that a rope that he had holding close to his heart was a snake.

Reply:

 

What are you muttering about here?!

 

>>Now if you don't like it you can take your whole dog and pony show and entertain someone else with your fantasy that you are worthy to chant Krsna's name.

 

Reply:

 

If you don't like it you can take your 'Browsing' to a different String you don't have to look at this String--huh?

 

>>At least I know that I'm not Bhakta Don.

 

Reply:

 

That's Right!

 

>> It is the right however of anyone who is not a disciple of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to say what they may, ann only your right to defend him against any allegations.

 

Reply:

 

So where did I deviate? Your "say what they may"--part goes two ways.

 

>>That none of you have shown yourselves capable of doing, and your lame ass attempts at trying to do so I ownly find humiliating.

 

Reply:

 

Sort of what we see you doing?

 

>>Humiliating because I just so happen to share the same species with you.

 

Reply:

 

You are a Spirit Soul--you are not some "species"!

 

>>That does not mean however that I do not consider that it is beyond one of you to call into the tomb and bid Lazarus to come forth or some other miracle, for that is just exactly what it is going to take.

 

Reply:

 

Huh? Me a Miracle Worker?

 

I am a Servant of the Servant of the Servant of the Servant of God--at most.

 

>>Do I believe in miracles? Yes, but then again I also believe that God is just and that sets me trembling and not for myself Prabhu's. Hari bol

 

Reply:

 

Dear Janus--I have not been unjust, I have nothing to be guilty for as you poorly Charge--I also believe Strongly in "Miracles" those of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu--and His Pure Devotee are here now for all to Witness and Partake!

 

Your servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-08-2001).]

Originally posted by stonehearted:

I'm not quite sure what Don meant by "everyone aught [sic] [sorry for that--I'm an English professor and editor] to know that," but I hope he was just making this point to clear any possible confusion. Of course, that was Patti (sp?), George's first wife. Because of his own commitment to Krishna consciousness, two wives had the opportunity for service and association with devotees.

 

The main thing is that this picture is an olod favorite of many devotees, and we're grateful to gHari for posting it.

That is all--I just wanted to point it out--so there was no confusion.

 

I was not disrespecting anyone.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-08-2001).]

All Gloires to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear ghari:

 

Hare Krishna!

 

I just wanted to add something [for those who did not know] about the Photo of Shrila Prabhupada, George and His 'Wife'.

 

That is not Olivia His Wife.

 

That girl in the Picture is His Ex-wife [and friend?]. People aught to know that.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhalta don

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

After seeing the Coverage at Time.com I had to send them a Message:

 

RE: Time.com's Coverage of George Harrison's Faith

 

Dear Editors @ Time.com:

 

Why does your Story about Mr. George Harrison Report that He embraced the Maharishi Yogi's Trancendental Meditation Movement--into the Present?

 

It would be sad for Mrs. Harrison and Her Son Dhani to read such an 'inaccuracy'--at Time.com!

 

Please do not confuse that Movement with what He was really Dedicated to: the International Society for Krishna Conciousness and its Founder--His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

George: I think Prabhupada's accomplishments are very significant; they're huge. Even compared to someone like William Shakespeare, the amount of literature Prabhupada produced is truly amazing. It boggles the mind. He sometimes went for days with only a few hours sleep. I mean even a youthful, athletic young person couldn't keep the pace he kept himself at seventy-nine years of age.

 

George left the Trancendental Meditation Movement in the 1960's.

 

Time Reports "History" not just the "News"--please consider the deep Historical Context of Mr. Harrison's dedication to 'Hare Krishna' and the International Society for Krishna Conciousness.

 

Please find enclosed a very informative Interview with Mr. Harrison in 1982--I humbly ask that Time.com cover some of these Facts about Mr. Harrison's actual 'Faith':...

 

I enclosed the 1982 Interview with Mukunda Goswami with this letter to them--we shall see if they decide change the Articles!

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

 

There is such non-sense in this Newsweek Interview:

 

"NEWSWEEK: We associate Harrison with Eastern spirituality, but there are reports that he also became a born-again Christian in his later years. Did you ever talk to him about religion?

 

Dr. Gil Lederman: He never converted to Hindu or anything else. I think his spirituality came from deep.

 

What is that? Is that what people have to think is true?

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

All Glories to Shrila Prabhuapda

 

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

 

The "Battle of Armageddon", the number "666" and the "Antichrist" send a chill up the spine by the very mention of the words. For many, these words conjure up a dramatic image of some end of the world holocaust. With images that include fire, mass destruction, and the Devil himself taking political control of the world through the United Nations etc. etc. Speculations about who the "antichrist" is have included about every US president and any "evil" world leader. I remember a speculation that the "antichrist" would be a demon possessed super-human that was a genetically engineered clone. Recent favorites include Sadam Hussin of the Gulf war.

 

I personally know of individuals who believed everything from the Gulf War to Y2K (and now what is happening today in the World) to be the beginning of the 'End' of the world.

 

TV evangelists love to talk about the "antichrist", but in the end it is all nothing more than idle speculation designed more to keep a TV audience sending in their donations.

 

Now don't get me wrong. The word "antichrist" IS found in the Bible. But that is were the Bible 'parts ways' with modern speculationists.

 

The rhetoric regarding the "antichrist" is so loud, that the average person has been misled to believe that the book of Revelation talks about nothing else but the "antichrist".

 

In fact, the word "antichrist" is not found even once in the book of Revelation. That in itself should send warning bells off. In fact, the word "antichrist" is only found in 4 passages. All were penned by Apostle John within the books of first and second John.

 

So exactly what does the Bible have to say about the "antichrist"?

 

Here is an exhaustive study on the word.

 

These passages are clear, by reading these Scriptures for yourselves without any 'comment' is all you need to have a clear understanding of the "antichrist".

 

THE 4 BIBLE PASSAGES:

 

1 John 2:18-19 "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us."

 

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."

 

1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."

 

2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

 

From the Bible we can clearly see 3 things. First, the "antichrist" is defined as anyone who doesn't believe Jesus is the divine son of God. Second, "antichrists" appear to actively teach against Christ. Third, there were many "antichrists" in the world when John wrote the book. This directly contradicts the teaching of modern speculationists who say that one antichrist will arise at some still future time.

 

The Greek word from which our English word "antichrist" is translated is very simple to understand. It is a simple compound word and means "anti" + "Christ" = "antichrist". We use the same compound word every day. We have people who are "anti-smoking" or "anti-gay" or "anti-hunting" or "anti-Semitic" or "anti-abortion". There really is no big mystery as to what the word means. "Anti-Christ" is anyone who opposes Christ.

 

Take this Test to see if you are an; 'Biblical Antichrist':

 

1. Do you actively teach or simply believe that Jesus Christ never walked the earth, but was a mythological figure?

 

2. Do you actively teach or simply believe there was a man named Jesus Christ, but he did not actually raise from the dead?

 

3. Do you actively speak out against or simply believe Christianity is a false religion?

 

4. Jesus said, "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters" Matthew 12:30. Are you an atheist or agnostic who is indifferent and non-religious?

 

If you answer yes to any of these: Then you are an "antichrist"!

 

The Bible term "antichrist" could be simply understood to be equivalent to being a "non-believer."

 

The "antichrist" then, has no horns or red glowing eyes. Neither is the "antichrist" some demon possessed super-intelligent human clone.

 

This and more Information is Available for those that seek 'Truth'.

 

Your servant

 

Bhakta don muntean

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-04-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

 

Here is a Very Good 'Paper' that Gives some Unique and Excellent Observations regarding this Anti-Christ 'Myth'.

 

Andrew Gow Teaches European History at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada, and is a Writer for the--History News Service.

 

"The upcoming millennium is not just about computers; it's also about religion and religious extremism. If we obsess about the digit bug and allow the mainstream media to pretend that the religious aspect is confined to the fringes and the tele-evangelical circus, we will be blindsided by the dangerous beliefs and plans of religious millennialism. Some evangelists are already turning up the heat. The "Concerned Christians" expelled from Israel were planning "millennial violence" in an attempt to speed up the Last Days: shades of Waco.

 

The Rev. Jerry Falwell made a reference to the Antichrist that should strike terror into the hearts of all Americans and Jews in particular. Falwell told an audience in Kingsport, Tenn., that the Antichrist was probably already alive and living among us: "when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course he'll be Jewish. Of course he'll pretend to be Christ."

 

The Associated Press report of the event explained: "According to the Bible, the Antichrist will spread universal evil before the end of the world but will finally be conquered at the second coming of Christ. Falwell said today in Williamsburg that he did not intend his statement to be anti-Jewish. He said he only meant that the Antichrist must be Jewish because Jesus was a Jew."

 

The New Testament says no such thing. Early Christian and medieval theologians tossed together a large number of often enigmatic references in the Book of Revelation to "the Beast" and in other books of the New Testament to "antichrists." This lengthy process produced a completely non-Biblical figure, "the Antichrist." He was formed out of a mixture of legend, misquotation and a crude "logic of salvation." According to this logic, if Jews are awaiting a Messiah, and Christians are awaiting a Beast or an enemy of Christ, then the two must be the same guy; and he must be Jewish.

 

It is no surprise that Falwell has repeated this myth, since many Christian thinkers, without clear Scriptural proof, have believed that "the Antichrist" would be a Jew. It was widely circulated at the end of the Middle Ages after the invention of the printing press. One of the first books ever printed (around 1450) was The Book of Antichrist, a collection of crude wood-cuts with handwritten captions. The Antichrist Blockbook drew on a popular story that had already been circulating widely in manuscript. For centuries, Christian authorities cited the Antichrist myth as a reason not to tolerate Jews "in our midst", because Jews were often believed to be an apocalyptic "fifth column," probable traitors to the Christian commonwealth. Influential theologians, dozens of plays and treatises, and early books foretold a Jewish Antichrist whose followers would be Jews. Ideas, especially religious ideas, do have consequences -- as Waco finally proved to secular America. The danger in this case is that large number of Christians will believe this hateful myth because Falwell has repeated it.

 

Falwell might not be entirely aware of it, but the main feature of the "Jewish Antichrist" myth was that he would be a sinful, lascivious, wicked Jew, conceived in sin by a wicked Jewish prostitute and the Devil (some versions say by her father). All the Jews of the world would follow Antichrist to Jerusalem. There they would rebuild the Jewish Temple and rule over the world. They would persecute Christians until Christ returned in glory.

 

The Jewish Antichrist legend is a prelude to persecution -- of Jews. The most infamous piece of anti-Semitic propaganda, the so-called "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," also repeats the medieval fable. The "Protocols," together with the Antichrist myth, sow the seeds of anti-Judaism and anti-Semitism and endanger religious liberty.

 

If Christians truly believe Jews are about to welcome Antichrist, imagine the consequences for American society and civil rights. However, most respectable and moderate Christian thinkers have rejected and still reject the Antichrist legend. This path is open to all Christians concerned about the appalling history of Christian-Jewish relations, who would like to put into practice the actual Biblical commandment to "love thy neighbor."

 

The mainstream media continue to portray doomsayers according to the conventions of editorial cartoonists: loonies with long white beards, standing on mountaintops with placards proclaiming "the End." When influential figures such as Falwell fuel the already potent millennial atmosphere with the Antichrist myth, democratic societies ought to take note -- and to worry.

 

c.Andrew Gow

 

This piece is Distributed for non-exclusive use by the History News Service, an Informal Syndicate of Professional Historians who seek to Improve the Public's Understanding of Current Events

 

Your Servant

 

Bhakta don muntean

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-04-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

 

Our Dear Brother--Shriman George Harrison--has Gone to Serve the Lotus Feet of Lord Sri Krishna--in Goloka!

 

Please read and Share this Immortal Interview with George Harrison:

 

 

If you open up your heart

You will know what I mean

We've been polluted so long

But here's a way for you to get clean

 

By chanting the names of the Lord and you'll be free, The Lord is awaiting on you all to awaken and see.

 

--"Awaiting On You All"

from the Album All Things Must Pass

 

In the Summer of 1969, before the dissolution of the Beatles, the most popular music group of all time, George Harrison Produced a Hit Single, The Hare Krishna Mantra, performed by George and the devotees of the London Radha-Krishna Temple. Soon after rising to the Top 10 or Top 20 best-selling record charts throughout England, Europe, and parts of Asia, the Hare Krishna chant became a household word--especially in England, where the BBC had featured the Hare Krishna Chanters, as they were then called, four times on the country's most popular television program, Top of the Pops.

 

At about the same time, five thousand miles away, several shaven-headed, saffron-robed men and sari-clad women sang along with John Lennon and Yoko Ono as they recorded the hit song "Give Peace a Chance" in their room at Montreal's Queen Elizabeth Hotel:

 

"John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Allen Ginsberg, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. All we are saying is give peace a chance."

 

The Hare Krishna devotees had been visiting with the Lennons for several days, discussing world peace and self-realization. Because of this and other widespread exposure, people all over the world soon began to identify the chanting Hare Krishna devotees as harbingers of a more simple, joyful, peaceful way of life.

 

George Harrison was the impetus for the Beatles'spiritual quest of the sixties, and today, nearly fifteen years later, the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra--Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare--still plays a key role in the former Beatle's life.

 

In this conversation, taped at George's home in England on September 4, 1982, George reveals some memorable experiences he has had chanting Hare Krishna and describes in detail his deep personal realizations about the chanting. He reveals what factors led him to produce "The Hare Krishna Mantra" record, "My Sweet Lord," and the LPs All Things Must Pass and Living in the Material World, which were all influenced to a great extent by the Hare Krishna chanting and philosophy. He speaks lovingly and openly about his association with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya (spiritual master) of the Hare Krishna movement. In the following interview George speaks frankly about his personal philosophy regarding the Hare Krishna movement, music, yoga, reincarnation, karma, the soul, God, and Christianity. The conversation concludes with his fond remembrances of a visit to the birthplace of Lord Krishna in Vrndavana, India, home of the Hare Krishna mantra, and with George discussing some of his celebrity friends' involvement with the mantra now heard and chanted around the world.

 

Mukunda Goswami: Oftentimes you speak of yourself as a plainclothes devotee, a closet yogi or "closet Krishna," and millions of people all over the world have been introduced to the chanting by your songs. But what about you? How did you first come in contact with Krishna?

 

George Harrison: Through my visits to India. So by the time the Hare Krishna movement first came to England in 1969, John and I had already gotten ahold of Prabhupada's first album, Krishna Consciousness. We had played it a lot and liked it. That was the first time I'd ever heard the chanting of the maha-mantra.

 

Mukunda: Even though you and John Lennon played Srila Prabhupada's record a lot and had chanted quite a bit on your own, you'd never really met any of the devotees. Yet when Gurudasa, Syamasundara, and I [the first Hare Krishna devotees sent from America, to open a temple in London] first came to England, you co-signed the lease on our first temple in central London, bought the Manoryoga-aSrama* for us, which has provided a place for literally hundreds of thousands of people to learn about Krishna consciousness, and financed the first printing of the book Krishna. You hadn't really known us for a very long time at all. Wasn't this a kind of sudden change for you?

 

George: Not really, for I always felt at home with Krishna. You see it was already a part of me. I think it's something that's been with me from my previous birth. Your coming to England and all that was just like another piece of a jigsaw puzzle that was coming together to make a complete picture. It had been slowly fitting together. That's why I responded to you all the way I did when you first came to London. Let's face it. If you're going to have to stand up and be counted, I figured, "I would rather be with these guys than with those other guys over there." It's like that. I mean I'd rather be one of the devotees of God than one of the straight, so-called sane or normal people who just don't understand that man is a spiritual being, that he has a soul. And I felt comfortable with you all, too, kind of like we'd known each other before. It was a pretty natural thing, really.

 

Mukunda: George, you were a member of the Beatles, undoubtedly the greatest single pop group in music hisiory, one that influenced not only music, but whole generations of young people as well. After the dissolution of the group, you went on to emerge as a solo superstar with albums like All Things Must Pass, the country's top selling album for seven weeks in a row, and its hit single "My Sweet Lord," which was number one in America for two months. That was followed by Living in the Material World, number one on Billboard for five weeks and a million-selling LP. One song on that album, "Give Me Love," was a smash hit for six straight weeks. The concert for Bangladesh with Ringo Starr, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Leon Russell, and Billy Preston was a phenomenal success and, once the LP and concert film were released, would become the single most successful rock benefit project ever. So, you had material success. You'd been everywhere, done everything, yet at the same time you were on a spiritual quest. What was it that really got you started on your spiritual journey?

 

George: It wasn't until the experience of the sixties really hit. You know, having been successful and meeting everybody we thought worth meeting and finding out they weren't worth meeting, and having had more hit records than everybody else and having done it bigger than everybody else. It was like reaching the top of a wall and then looking over and seeing that there's so much more on the other side. So I felt it was part of my duty to say, "Oh, okay, maybe you are thinking this is all you need-to be rich and famous--but actually it isn't."

 

Mukunda: George, in your recently published autobiography, I, Me, Mine, you said your song "Awaiting on You All" is about japa-yoga, or chanting mantras on beads. You explained that a mantra is "mystical energy encased in a sound structure," and that "each mantra contains within its vibrations a certain power." But of all mantras, you stated that "the maha-mantra [the Hare Krishna mantra] has been prescribed as the easiest and surest way for attaining God Realization in this present age." As a practitioner of japa-yoga, what realizations have you experienced from chanting?

 

George: Prabhupada, acarya (spiritual master) of the Hare Krishna movement, told me once that we should just keep chanting all the time, or as much as possible. Once you do that, you realize the benefit. The response that comes from chanting is in the form of bliss, or spiritual happiness, which is a much higher taste than any happiness found here in the material world. That's why I say that the more you do it, the more you don't want to stop, because it feels so nice and peaceful.

 

Mukunda: What is it about the mantra that brings about this feeling of peace and happiness?

 

George: The word Hare is the word that calls upon the energy that's around the Lord. If you say the mantra enough, you build up an identification with God. God's all happiness, all bliss, and by chanting His names we connect with Him. So it's really a process of actually having a realization of God, which all becomes clear with the expanded state of consciousness that develops when you chant. Like I said in the introduction I wrote for Prabhupada's Krsna book some years ago, "If there's a God, I want to see Him. It's pointless to believe in something without proof, and Krishna consciousness and meditation are methods where you can actually obtain God perception."

 

Mukunda: Is it an instantaneous process, or gradual?

 

George: You don't get it in five minutes. It's something that takes time, but it works because it's a direct process of attaining God and will help us to have pure consciousness and good perception that is above the normal, everyday state of consciousness.

 

Mukunda: How do you feel after chanting for a long time?

 

George: In the life I lead, I find that I sometimes have opportunities when I can really get going at it, and the more I do it, I find the harder it is to stop, and I don't want to lose the feeling it gives me.

 

For example, once I chanted the Hare Krishna mantra all the way from France to Portugal, nonstop. I drove for about twenty-three hours and chanted all the way. It gets you feeling a bit invincible. The funny thing was that I didn't even know where I was going. I mean I had bought a map, and I knew basically which way I was aiming, but I couldn't speak French, Spanish, or Portuguese. But none of that seemed to matter. You know, once you get chanting, then things start to happen transcendentally.

 

Mukunda: The Vedas inform us that because God is absolute, there is no difference between God the person and His holy name; the name is God. When you first started chanting, could you perceive that?

 

George: It takes a certain amount of time and faith to accept or to realize that there is no difference between Him and His name, to get to the point where you're no longer mystified by where He is. You know, like, "Is He around here?" You realize after some time, "Here He is--right here!" It's a matter of practice. So when I say that "l see God," I don't necessarily mean to say that when I chant I'm seeing Krishna in His original form when He came five thousand years ago, dancing across the water, playing His flute. Of course, that would also be nice, and it's quite possible too. When you become real pure by chanting, you can actually see God like that, I mean personally. But no doubt you can feel His presence and know that He's there when you're chanting.

 

Mukunda: Can you think of any incident where you felt God's presence very strongly through chanting?

 

George: Once I was on an airplane that was in an electric storm. It was hit by lightning three times, and a Boeing 707 went over the top of us, missing by inches. I thought the back end of the plane had blown off. I was on my way from Los Angeles to New York to organize the Bangladesh concert. As soon as the plane began bouncing around, I started chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. The whole thing went on for about an hour and a half or two hours, the plane dropping hundreds of feet and bouncing all over in the storm, all the lights out and all these explosions, and everybody terrified. I ended up with my feet pressed against the seat in front, my seat belt as tight as it could be, gripping on the thing, and yelling Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare at the top of my voice. I know for me, the difference between making it and not making it was actually chanting the mantra. Peter Sellers also swore that chanting Hare* Krishna saved him from a plane crash once.

 

John Lennon and Hare Krishna

 

Mukunda: Did any of the other Beatles chant?

 

George: Before meeting Prabhupada and all of you, I had bought that album Prabhupada did in New York .(SIDE A / SIDE B) , and John and I listened to it. I remember we sang it for days, John and I, with ukulele banjos, sailing through the Greek Islands chanting Hare Krishna. Like six hours we sang, because we couldn't stop once we got going. As soon as we stopped, it was like the lights went out. It went on to the point where our jaws were aching, singing the mantra over and over and over and over and over. We felt exalted; it was a very happy time for us.

 

Mukunda: You know, I saw a video the other day sent to us from Canada, showing John and Yoko Ono recording their hit song "Give Peace a Chance," and about five or six of the devotees were there in John's room at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel in Montreal, singing along and playing cymbals and drums. You know, John and Yoko chanted Hare Krishna on that song. That was in May of '69, and just three months later, Srila Prabhupada was John and Yoko's house guest for one month at their estate outside London.

 

While Prabhupada was there, you, John, and Yoko came to his room one afternoon for a few hours. I think that was the first time you all met him.

 

George: That's right.

 

Mukunda: At that point John was a spiritual seeker, and Prabhupada explained the true path to peace and liberation. He talked about the eternality of the soul, karma, and reincarnation, which are all elaborately dealt with in the Vedic literatures.Vedas, predating the Bible and covering all aspects of spiritual knowledge from the nature of the self, or individual soul, to the Supreme Soul (Sri Krishna) and His kingdom in the spiritual world. Although John never made Hare Krishna a big part of his life, he echoed the philosophy of Krishna consciousness in a hit song he wrote just about a year after that conversation, "Instant Karma."

 

Now what's the difference between chanting Hare Krishna and meditation?

 

George: It's really the same sort of thing as meditation, but I think it has a quicker effect. I mean, even if you put your beads down, you can still say the mantra or sing it without actually keeping track on your beads. One of the main differences between silent meditation and chanting is that silent meditation is rather dependent on concentration, but when you chant, it's more of a direct connection with God.

 

Practical Meditation

 

Mukunda: The maha-mantra was prescribed for modern times because of the fast-paced nature of things today. Even when people do get into a little quiet place, it's very difficult to calm the mind for very long.

 

George: That's right. Chanting Hare Krishna is a type of meditation that can be practiced even if the mind is in turbulence. You can even be doing it and other things at the same time. That's what's so nice. In my life there's been many times the mantra brought things around. It keeps me in tune with reality, and the more you sit in one place and chant, the more incense you offer to Krishna in the same room, the more you purify the vibration, the more you can achieve what you're trying to do, which is just trying to remember God, God, God, God, God, as often as possible. And if you're talking to Him with the mantra, it certainly helps.

 

Mukunda: What else helps you to fix your mind on God?

 

George: Well, just having as many things around me that will remind me of Him, like incense and pictures. Just the other day I was looking at a small picture on the wall of my studio of you, Gurudasa, and Syamasundara, and just seeing all the old devotees made me think of Krishna. I guess that's the business of devotees--to make you think of God.

 

Mukunda: How often do you chant?

 

George: Whenever I get a chance.

 

Mukunda: Once you asked Srila Prabhupada about a particular verse he quoted from the Vedas, in which it's said that when one chants the holy name of Krishna, Krishna dances on the tongue and one wishes one had thousands of ears and thousands of mouths with which to better appreciate the holy names of God.

 

George: Yes. I think he was talking about the realization that there is no difference between Him standing before you and His being present in His name. That's the real beauty of chanting--you directly connect with God. I have no doubt that by saying Krishna over and over again, He can come and dance on the tongue. The main thing, though, is to keep in touch with God.

 

Mukunda: So your habit is generally to use the beads when you chant?

 

George: Oh, yeah. I have my beads. I remember when I first got them, they were just big knobby globs of wood, but now I'm very glad to say that they're smooth from chanting a lot.

 

Mukunda: Do you generally keep them in the bag when you chant?

 

George: Yes. I find it's very good to be touching them. It keeps another one of the senses fixed on God. Beads really help in that respect. You know, the frustrating thing about it was in the beginning there was a period when I was heavy into chanting and I had my hand in my bead bag all the time. And I got so tired of people asking me, "Did you hurt your hand, break it or something?" In the end I used to say, "Yeah. Yeah. I had an accident," because it was easier than explaining everything. Using the beads also helps me to release a lot of nervous energy.

 

Mukunda: Some people say that if everyone on the planet chanted Hare Krishna, they wouldn't be able to keep their minds on what they were doing. In other words, if everyone started chanting, some people ask if the whole world wouldn't just grind to a halt. They wonder if people would stop working in factories, for example.

 

George: No. Chanting doesn't stop you from being creative or productive. It actually helps you concentrate. I think this would make a great sketch for television: imagine all the workers on the Ford assembly line in Detroit, all of them chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna while bolting on the wheels. Now that would be wonderful. It might help out the auto industry, and probably there would be more decent cars too.

 

Experiencing God Through the Senses

 

Mukunda: We've talked a lot about japa, or personalized chanting, which most chanters engage in. But there's another type, called kirtana, when one chants congregationally, in a temple or on the streets with a group of devotees. Kirtana generally gives a more supercharged effect, like recharging one's spiritual batteries, and it gives others a chance to hear the holy names and become purified.

 

Actually, I was with Srila Prabhupada when he first began the group chanting in Tompkins Square Park on New York's Lower East Side in 1966. The poet Allen Ginsberg would come and chant with us a lot and would play on his harmonium. A lot of people would come to hear the chanting, then Prabhupada would give lectures on Bhagavad-gita back at the temple.

 

George: Yes, going to a temple or chanting with a group of other people--the vibration is that much stronger. Of course, for some people it's easy just to start chanting on their beads in the middle of a crowd, while other people are more comfortable chanting in the temple. But part of Krishna consciousness is trying to tune in all the senses of all the people: to experience God through all the senses, not just by experiencing Him on Sunday, through your knees by kneeling on some hard wooden kneeler in the church. But if you visit a temple, you can see pictures of God, you can see the Deity form of the Lord, and you can just hear Him by listening to yourself and others say the mantra. It's just a way of realizing that all the senses can be applied toward perceiving God, and it makes it that much more appealing, seeing the pictures, hearing the mantra, smelling the incense, flowers, and so on. That's the nice thing about your movement. It incorporates everything--chanting, dancing, philosophy, and prasadam. The music and dancing is a serious part of the process too. It's not just something to burn off excess energy.

 

Mukunda: We've always seen that when we chant in the streets, people are eager to crowd around and listen. A lot of them tap their feet or dance along.

 

George: It's great, the sound of the karatalas [cymbals]. When I hear them from a few blocks away, it's like some magical thing that awakens something in me. Without their really being aware of what's happening, people are being awakened spiritually. Of course, in another sense, in a higher sense, the kirtana is always going on, whether we're hearing it or not.

 

Now, all over the place in Western cities, the sankirtana party has become a common sight. I love to see these sankirtana parties, because I love the whole idea of the devotees mixing it up with everybody, giving everybody a chance to remember. I wrote in the Krsna book introduction, "Everybody is looking for Krishna. Some don't realize that they are, but they are. Krishna is God ... and by chanting His Holy Names, the devotee quickly develops God-consciousness."

 

Mukunda: You know, Srila Prabhupada often said that after a large number of temples were established, most people would simply begin to take up the chanting of Hare Krishna within their own homes, and we're seeing more and more that this is what's happening. Our worldwide congregation is very large--in the millions. The chanting on the streets, the books, and the temples are there to give people a start, to introduce them to the process.

 

George: I think it's better that it is spreading into the homes now. There are a lot of "closet Krishnas," you know. There's a lot of people out there who are just waiting, and if it's not today, it will be tomorrow or next week or next year.

 

Back in the sixties, whatever we were all getting into, we tended to broadcast it as loud as we could. I had had certain realizations and went through a period where I was so thrilled about my discoveries and realizations that I wanted to shout and tell it to everybody. But there's a time to shout it out and a time not to shout it out. A lot of people went underground with their spiritual life in the seventies, but they're out there in little nooks and crannies and in the countryside, people who look and dress straight, insurance salesmen types, but they're really meditators and chanters, closet devotees.

 

Prabhupada's movement is doing pretty well. It's growing like wildfire really. How long it will take until we get to a Golden Age where everybody's perfectly in tune with God's will, I don't know; but because of Prabhupada, Krishna consciousness has certainly spread more in the last sixteen years than it has since the sixteenth century, since the time of Lord Caitanya. The mantra has spread more quickly and the movement's gotten bigger and bigger. It would be great if everyone chanted. Everybody would benefit by doing it. No matter how much money you've got, it doesn't necessarily make you happy. You have to find your happiness with the problems you have, not worry too much about them, and chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare.

 

The Hare Krishna Record

 

Mukunda: In 1969 you produced a single called "The Hare Krishna Mantra," which eventually became a hit in many countries. That tune later became a cut on the Radha-Krishna Temple album, which you also produced on the Apple label and was distributed in America by Capitol Records. A lot of people in the recording business were surprised by this, your producing songs for and singing with the Hare Krishnas. Why did you do it?

 

George: Well, it's just all a part of service, isn't it? Spiritual service, in order to try to spread the mantra all over the world. Also, to try and give the devotees a wider base and a bigger foothold in England and everywhere else.

 

Mukunda: How did the success of this record of Hare Krishna devotees chanting compare with some of the rock musicians you were producing at the time like Jackie Lomax, Splinter, and Billy Preston?

 

George: It was a different thing. Nothing to do with that really. There was much more reason to do it. There was less commercial potential in it, but it was much more satisfying to do, knowing the possibilities that it was going to create, the connotations it would have just by doing a three-and-a-half-minute mantra. That was more fun really than trying to make a pop hit record. It was the feeling of trying to utilize your skills or job to make it into some spiritual service to Krishna.

 

Mukunda: What effect do you think that tune, "The Hare Krishna Mantra," having reached millions and millions of people, has had on the cosmic consciousness of the world?

 

George: I'd like to think it had some effect. After all, the sound is God.

 

Mukunda: When Apple, the recording company, called a press conference to promote the record, the media seemed to be shocked to hear you speak about the soul and God being so important.

 

George: I felt it was important to try and be precise, to tell them and let them know. You know, to come out of the closet and really tell them. Because once you realize something, then you can't pretend you don't know it any more.

 

I figured this is the space age, with airplanes and everything. If everyone can go around the world on their holidays, there's no reason why a mantra can't go a few miles as well. So the idea was to try to spiritually infiltrate society, so to speak. After I got Apple Records committed to you and the record released, and after our big promotion, we saw it was going to become a hit. And one of the greatest things, one of the greatest thrills of my life, actually, was seeing you all on BBC's Top of the Pops. I couldn't believe it. It's pretty hard to get on that program, because they only put you on if you come into the Top 20. It was just like a breath of fresh air. My strategy was to keep it to a three-and-a-half-minute version of the mantra so they'd play it on the radio, and it worked. I did the harmonium and guitar track for that record at Abbey Road studios before one of the Beatles' sessions and then overdubbed a bass part. I remember Paul McCartney and his wife, Linda, arrived at the studio and enjoyed the mantra.

 

Mukunda: Paul's quite favorable now, you know.

 

George: That's good. It still sounds like quite a good recording, even after all these years. It was the greatest fun of all, really, to see Krishna on Top of the Pops.

 

Mukunda: Shortly after its release, John Lennon told me that they played it at the intermission right before Bob Dylan did the Isle of Wight concert with Jimi Hendrix, the Moody Blues, and Joe Cocker in the summer of '69.

 

George: They played it while they were getting the stage set up for Bob. It was great. Besides, it was a catchy tune, and the people didn't have to know what it meant in order to enjoy it. I felt very good when I first heard it was doing well.

 

Mukunda: How did you feel about the record technically, the voices?

 

George: Yamuna, the lead singer, has a naturally good voice. I liked the way she sang with conviction, and she sang like she'd been singing it a lot before. It didn't sound like the first tune she'd ever sung.

 

You know, I used to sing the mantra long before I met any of the devotees or long before I met Prabhupada, because I had his first record then for at least two years. When you're open to something it's like being a beacon, and you attract it. From the first time I heard the chanting, it was like a door opened somewhere in my subconscious, maybe from some previous life.

 

Mukunda: In the Iyrics to that song "Awaiting on You All," from the All Things Must Pass album, you come right out front and tell people that they can be free from living in the material world by chanting the names of God. What made you do it? What kind of feedback did you get?

 

George: At that time, nobody was committed to that type of music in the pop world. There was, I felt, a real need for that, so rather than sitting and waiting for somebody else, I decided to do it myself. A lot of times we think, "Well, I agree with you, but I'm not going to actually stand up and be counted. Too risky." Everybody is always trying to keep themselves covered, stay commercial, so I thought, just do it. Nobody else is, and I'm sick of all these young people just boogeying around, wasting their lives, you know. Also, I felt that there were a lot of people out there who would be reached. I still get letters from people saying, "I have been in the Krishna temple for three years, and I would have never known about Krishna unless you recorded the All Things Must Pass album." So I know, by the Lord's grace, I am a small part in the cosmic play.

 

Mukunda: What about the other Beatles? What did they think about your taking up Krishna consciousness? What was their reaction? You'd all been to India by then and were pretty much searching for something spiritual. Syamasundara said that once, when he ate lunch with you and the other Beatles, they were all quite respectful.

 

George: Oh, yeah, well, if the Fab Four didn't get it, that is, if they couldn't deal with shaven-headed Hare Krishnas, then there would have been no hope! [Laughter.] And the devotees just came to be associated with me, so people stopped thinking, "Hey, what's this?" you know, if somebody in orange, with a shaved head, would appear. They'd say, "Oh, yeah, they're with George."

 

Mukunda: From the very start, you always felt comfortable around the devotees?

 

George: The first time I met Syamasundara, I liked him. He was my pal. I'd read about Prabhupada coming from India to Boston on the back of his record, and I knew that Syamasundara and all of you were in my age group, and that the only difference, really, was that you'd already joined and I hadn't. I was in a rock band, but I didn't have any fear, because I had seen dhotis, your robes, and the saffron color and shaved heads in India. Krishna consciousness was especially good for me because I didn't get the feeling that I'd have to shave my head, move into a temple, and do it full time. So it was a spiritual thing that just fit in with my life-style. I could still be a musician, but I just changed my consciousness, that's all.

 

Mukunda: You know, the Tudor mansion and estate that you gave us outside London has become one of our largest international centers. How do you feel about the Bhaktivedanta Manor's success in spreading Krishna consciousness?

 

George: Oh, it's great. And it also relates to making the Hare Krishna record or whatever my involvements were. Actually, it gives me pleasure, the idea that I was fortunate enough to be able to help at that time. All those songs with spiritual themes were like little plugs--"My Sweet Lord" and the others. And now I know that people are much more respectful and accepting when it comes to seeing the devotees in the streets and all that. It's no longer like something that's coming from left field.

 

And I've given a lot of Prabhupada's books to many people, and whether I ever hear from them again or not, it's good to know that they've gotten them, and if they read them, their lives may be changed.

 

Mukunda: When you come across people who are spiritually inclined but don't have much knowledge, what kind of advice do you give them?

 

George: I try to tell them my little bit, what my experience is, and give them a choice of things to read and a choice of places to go--like you know, "Go to the temple, try chanting."

 

Mukunda: In the "Ballad of John and Yoko," John and Yoko rapped the media for the way it can foster a false image of you and perpetuate it. It's taken a lot of time and effort to get them to understand that we are a genuine religion, with scriptures that predate the New Testament by three thousand years. Gradually, though, more people, scholars, philosophers, and theologians, have come around, and today they have a great deal of respect for the ancient Vaisnava tradition, where the modern-day Krishna consciousness movement has its roots

 

George: The media is to blame for everything, for all the misconceptions about the movement, but in a sense it didn't really matter if they said something good or bad, because Krishna consciousness always seemed to transcend that barrier anyway The fact that the media was letting people know about Krishna was good in itself.

 

Mukunda: Srila Prabhupada always trained us to stick to our principles. He said that the worst thing we could ever do would be to make some sort of compromise or to dilute the philosophy for the sake of cheap popularity. Although many swamis and yogis had come from India to the West, Prabhupada was the only one with the purity and devotion to establish India's ancient Krishna conscious philosophy around the world on its own terms-not watered down, but as it is.

 

George: That's right. He was a perfect example of what he preached.

 

Mukunda: How did you feel about financing the first printing of the Krsna book and writing the introduction?

 

George: I just felt like it was part of my job, you know. Wherever I go in the world, when I see devotees, I always say "Hare Krishna!" to them, and they're always pleased to see me. It's a nice relationship. Whether they really know me personally or not, they feel they know me. And they do, really.

 

Mukunda: When you did the Material World album, you used a photo insert taken from the cover of Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita showing Krishna and His friend and disciple, Arjuna. Why?

 

George: Oh, yeah. It said on the album, "From the cover of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami." It was a promo for you, of course. I wanted to give them all a chance to see Krishna, to know about Him. I mean that's the whole idea, isn't it?

 

Spiritual Food

 

Mukunda: At lunch today we spoke a little about prasadam, vegetarian foods that have been spiritualized by being offered to Krishna. A lot of people have come to Krishna consciousness through prasadam.I mean, this process is the only kind of yoga that you can actually practice by eating.

 

George: Well, we should try to see God in everything, so it helps so much having the food to taste. Let's face it, if God is in everything, why shouldn't you taste Him when you eat? I think that prasadam is a very important thing. Krishna is God, so He's absolute: His name, His form, prasadam, it's all Him. They say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, so if you can get to a man's spirit soul by eating, and it works, why not do it? There's nothing better than having been chanting and dancing, or just sitting and talking philosophy, and then suddenly the devotees bring out the prasadam. It's a blessing from Krishna, and it's spiritually important. The idea is that prasadam is the sacrament the Christians talk about, only instead of being just a wafer, it's a whole feast, really, and the taste is so nice--it's out of this world. And prasadam's a good little hook in this age of commercialism. When people want something extra, or they need to have something special, prasadam will hook them in there. It's undoubtedly done a great deal toward getting a lot more people involved in spiritual life. It breaks down preju dices, too. Because they think, "Oh, well, yes, I wouldn't mind a drink of whatever or a bite of that." Then they ask, "What's this?" and "Oh, well, it's prasadam." And they get to learn another aspect of Krishna consciousness. Then they say, "It actually tastes quite nice. Have you got another plateful?" I've seen that happen with lots of people, especially older people I've seen at your temples. Maybe they were a little prejudiced, but the next thing you know, they're in love with prasadam, and eventually they walk out of the temple thinking, "They're not so bad after all."

 

Mukunda: The Vedic literatures reveal that prasadam conveys spiritual realization, just as chanting does, but in a less obvious or conspicuous way. You make spiritual advancement just by eating it.

 

George: I'd say from my experience that it definitely works. I've always enjoyed prasadam much more when I've been at the temple, or when I've actually been sitting with Prabhupada, than when somebody's brought it to me. Sometimes you can sit there with prasadam and find that three or four hours have gone by and you didn't even know it. Prasadam really helped me a lot, because you start to realize "Now I'm tasting Krishna." You're conscious suddenly of another aspect of God, understanding that He's this little samosa.* It's all just a matter of tuning into the spiritual, and prasadam's a very real part of it all.

 

Mukunda: You know, a lot of rock groups like Grateful Dead and Police get prasadam backstage before their concerts. They love it. It's a long-standing tradition with us. I remember one time sending prasadam to one of the Beatles' recording sessions. And your sister was telling me today that while you were doing the Bangladesh concert, Syamasundara used to bring you all prasadam at the rehearsals.

 

George: Yes, he's even got a credit on the album sleeve.

 

Mukunda: What are your favorite kinds of prasadam, George?

 

George: I really like those deep-fried cauliflower things--pakoras?*

 

Mukunda: Yes.

 

George: And one thing I always liked was rasamalai [a milk sweet]. And there's a lot of good drinks as well, fruit juices and lassi, the yogurt drinks mixed with fruit, and sometimes with rose water.

 

Mukunda:You've been a vegetarian for years, George. Have you had any difficulties maintaining it?

 

George: No. Actually, I wised up and made sure I had dal bean soup or something every day. Actually, lentils are one of the cheapest things, but they give you A-l protein. People are simply screwing up when they go out and buy beef steak, which is killing them with cancer and heart troubles. The stuff costs a fortune too. You could feed a thousand people with lentil soup for the cost of half a dozen filets. Does that make sense?

 

Mukunda: One of the things that really has a profound effect on people when they visit the temples or read our books is the paintings and sculptures done by our devotee artists of scenes from Krishna's pastimes when He appeared on earth five thousand years ago. Prabhupada once said that these paintings were "windows to the spiritual world," and he organized an art academy, training his disciples in the techniques for creating transcendental art. Now, tens of thousands of people have these paintings hanging in their homes, either the originals, lithographs, canvas prints, or posters. You've been to our multimedia Bhagavad-gita museum in Los Angeles. What kind of an effect did it have on you?

 

George: I thought it was great--better than Disneyland, really. I mean, it's as valuable as that or the Smithsonian Institute in Washington. The sculpted dioramas look great, and the music is nice. It gives people a real feel for what the kingdom of God must be like, and much more basic than that, it shows in a way that's easy for even a child to understand exactly how the body is different from the soul, and how the soul's the important thing. I always have pictures around like the one of Krishna on the chariot that I put in the Material World album, and I have the sculpted Siva fountainBhagavad-gita museum, George asked if the artists and sculptors who had produced the museum could sculpt a life-sized fountain of Lord Siva, one of the principal Hindu demigods and a great devotee of Lord Krishna. Lord Siva, in a meditative pose, complete with a stream of water spouting from his head, now resides in the gardens of George's estate, heralded as among the most beautiful in all of England. the devotees made for me in my garden. Pictures are helpful when I'm chanting. You know that painting in the Bhagavad-gita of the Supersoul in the heart of the dog, the cow, the elephant, the poor man, and the priest? That's very good to help you realize that Krishna is dwelling in the hearts of everybody. It doesn't matter what kind of body you've got, the Lord's there with you. We're all the same really.

 

Meeting Srila Prabhupada

 

Mukunda: George, you and John Lennon met Srila Prabhupada together when he stayed at John's home, in September of 1969.

 

George: Yes, but when I met him at first, I underestimated him. I didn't realize it then, but I see now that because of him, the mantra has spread so far in the last sixteen years, more than it had in the last five centuries. Now that's pretty amazing, because he was getting older and older, yet he was writing his books all the time. I realized later on that he was much more incredible than what you could see on the surface.

 

Mukunda: What about him stands out the most in your mind?

 

George: The thing that always stays is his saying, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant." I like that. A lot of people say, "I'm it. I'm the divine incarnation. I'm here and let me hip you." You know what I mean? But Prabhupada was never like that. I liked Prabhupada's humbleness. I always liked his humility and his simplicity The servant of the servant of the servant is really what it is, you know. None of us are God--just His servants. He just made me feel so comfortable. I always felt very relaxed with him, and I felt more like a friend. I felt that he was a good friend. Even though he was at the time seventy-nine years old, working practically all through the night, day after day, with very little sleep, he still didn't come through to me as though he was a very highly educated intellectual being, because he had a sort of childlike simplicity. Which is great, fantastic. Even though he was the greatest Sanskrit scholar and a saint, I appreciated the fact that he never made me feel uncomfortable. In fact, he always went out of his way to make me feel comfortable. I always thought of him as sort of a lovely friend, really, and now he's still a lovely friend.

 

Mukunda: In one of his books, Prabhupada said that your sincere service was better than some people who had delved more deeply into Krishna consciousness but could not maintain that level of commitment. How did you feel about this?

 

George: Very wonderful, really. I mean it really gave me hope, because as they say, even one moment in the company of a divine person, Krishna's pure devotee, can help a tremendous amount.

 

And I think Prabhupada was really pleased at the idea that somebody from outside of the temple was helping to get the album made. Just the fact that he was pleased was encouraging to me. I knew he liked "The Hare Krishna Mantra" record, and he asked the devotees to play that song "Govinda." They still play it, don't they?

 

Mukunda: Every temple has a recording of it, and we play it each morning when the devotees assemble before the altar, before kirtana. It's an ISKCON institution, you might say.

 

George: And if I didn't get feedback from Prabhupada on my songs about Krishna or the philosophy, I'd get it from the devotees. That's all the encouragement I needed really. It just seemed that anything spiritual I did, either through songs, or helping with publishing the books, or whatever, really pleased him. The song I wrote, "Living in the Material World," as I wrote in I, Me, Mine, was influenced by Srila Prabhupada. He's the one who explained to me how we're not these physical bodies. We just happen to be in them.

 

Like I said in the song, this place's not really what's happening. We don't belong here, but in the spiritual sky:

 

· As l'm fated for the material world

Get frustrated in the material world

Senses never gratified

Only swelling like a tide

That could drown me in the material world

 

The whole point to being here, really, is to figure a way to get out.

 

That was the thing about Prabhupada, you see. He didn't just talk about loving Krishna and getting out of this place, but he was the perfect example. He talked about always chanting, and he was always chanting. I think that that in itself was perhaps the most encouraging thing for me. It was enough to make me try harder, to be just a little bit better. He was a perfect example of everything he preached.

 

Mukunda: How would you describe Srila Prabhupada's achievements?

 

George: I think Prabhupada's accomplishments are very significant; they're huge. Even compared to someone like William Shakespeare, the amount of literature Prabhupada produced is truly amazing. It boggles the mind. He sometimes went for days with only a few hours sleep. I mean even a youthful, athletic young person couldn't keep the pace he kept himself at seventy-nine years of age.

 

Srila Prabhupada has already had an amazing effect on the world. There's no way of measuring it. One day I just realized, "God, this man is amazing!" He would sit up all night translating Sanskrit into English, putting in glossaries to make sure everyone understands it, and yet he never came off as someone above you. He always had that childlike simplicity, and what's most amazing is the fact that he did all this translating in such a relatively short time--just a few years. And without having anything more than his own Krishna consciousness, he rounded up all these thousands of devotees, set the whole movement in motion, which became something so strong that it went on even after he left. And it's still escalating even now at an incredible rate. It will go on and on from the knowledge he gave. It can only grow and grow. The more people wake up spiritually, the more they'll begin to realize the depth of what Prabhupada was saying--how much he gave.

 

Mukunda: Did you know that complete sets of Prabhupada's books are in all the major colleges and universities in the world, including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, and the Sorbonne?

 

George: They should be! One of the greatest things I noticed about Prabhupada was the way he would be talking to you in English, and then all of a sudden he would say it to you in Sanskrit and then translate it back into English. It was clear that he really knew it well. His contribution has obviously been enormous from the literary point of view, because he's brought the Supreme Person, Krishna, more into focus. A lot of scholars and writers know the Gita, but only on an intellectual level. Even when they write "Krishna said...," they don't do it with the bhakti or love required. That's the secret, you know--Krishna is actually a person who is the Lord and who will also appear there in that book when there is that love, that bhakti. You can't understand the first thing about God unless you love Him. These big so-called Vedic scholars--they don't necessarily love Krishna, so they can't understand Him and give Him to us. But Prabhupada was different.

 

Mukunda: The Vedic literatures predicted that after the advent of Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago, there would be a Golden Age of ten thousand years, when the chanting of the holy names of God would completely nullify all the degradations of the modern age, and real spiritual peace would come to this planet.

 

George: Well, Prabhupada's definitely affected the world in an absolute way. What he was giving us was the highest literature, the highest knowledge. I mean there just isn't anything higher.

 

Mukunda: You write in your autobiography that "No matter how good you are, you still need grace to get out of the material world. You can be a yogi or a monk or a nun, but without God's grace you still can't make it." And at the end of the song "Living in the Material World," the Iyrics say, "Got to get out of this place by the Lord Sri Krishna's grace, my salvation from the material world." If we're dependent on the grace of God, what does the expression "God helps those who help themselves" mean?

 

George: It's flexible, I think. In one way, I'm never going to get out of here unless it's by His grace but then again, His grace is relative to the amount of desire I can manifest in myself. The amount of grace I would expect from God should be equal to the amount of grace I can gather or earn. I get out what I put in. Like in the song I wrote about Prabhupada:

 

· The Lord loves the one that loves the Lord

And the law says if you don't give,

then you don't get loving

Now the Lord helps those that help themselves

And the law says whatever you do

It comes right back on you

 

--"The Lord Loves the One that Loves the Lord"

from Living in the Material World

Apple LP

 

Have you heard that song "That Which I Have Lost" from my new album, Somewhere in England? It's right out of the Bhagavad-gita. In it I talk about fighting the forces of darkness, limitations, falsehood, and mortality.

 

God Is a Person

 

Mukunda: Yes, I like it. If people can understand the Lord's message in Bhagavad-gita, they can become truly happy.

 

A lot of people, when they just get started in spiritual life, worship God as impersonal. What's the difference between worshiping Krishna, or God, in His personal form and worshiping His impersonal nature as energy or light?

 

George: It's like the difference between hanging out with a computer or hanging out with a person. Like I said earlier, "If there is a God, I want to see Him," not only His energy or His light, but Him.

 

Mukunda: What do you think is the goal of human life?

 

George: Each individual has to burn out his own karma and escape from the chains of maya (illusion), reincarnation, and all that. The best thing anyone can give to humanity is God consciousness. Then you can really give them something. But first you have to concentrate on your own spiritual advancement; so in a sense we have to become selfish to become selfless.

 

Mukunda: What about trying to solve the problems of life without employing the spiritual process?

 

George: Life is like a piece of string with a lot of knots tied in it. The knots are the karma you're born with from all your past lives, and the object of human life is to try and undo all those knots. That's what chanting and meditation in God consciousness can do. Otherwise you simply tie another ten knots each time you try to undo one knot. That's how karma works. I mean, we're now the results of our past actions, and in the future we'll be the results of the actions we're performing now. A little understanding of "As you sow, so shall you reap" is important, because then you can't blame the condition you're in on anyone else. You know that it's by your own actions you're able to get more in a mess or out of one. It's your own actions that relieve or bind you.

 

Mukunda: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the crest jewel of all the Vedic literatures, it's described how those pure souls who live in the spiritual world with God have different types of rasas, or relationships, with Him. Is there any special way you like to think of Krishna?

 

George: I like the idea of seeing Krishna as a baby, the way He's often depicted in India. And also Govinda, the cowherd boy. I like the idea that you can have Krishna as a baby and feel protective to Him, or as your friend, or as the guru or master--type figure.

 

"My Sweet Lord"

 

Mukunda: I don't think it's possible to calculate just how many people were turned on to Krishna consciousness by your song "My Sweet Lord." But you went through quite a personal thing before you decided to do that song. In your book you said, "I thought a lot about whether to do 'My Sweet Lord' or not because I would be committing myself publicly ... Many people fear the words Lord and God ... I was sticking my neck out on the chopping block ... but at the same time I thought 'Nobody's saying it ... why should I be untrue to myself?' I came to believe in the importance that if you feel something strong enough, then you should say it.

 

"I wanted to show that Hallelujah and Hare Krishna are quite the same thing. I did the voices singing 'Hallelujah' and then the change to 'Hare Krishna' so that people would be chanting the maha-mantra-before they knew what was going on! I had been chanting Hare Krishna for a long time, and this song was a simple idea of how to do a Western pop equivalent of a mantra which repeats over and over again the holy names. I don't feel guilty or bad about it; in fact it saved many a heroin addict's life."

 

Why did you feel you wanted to put Hare Krishna on the album at all? Wouldn't "Hallelujah" alone have been good enough?

 

George: Well, first of all "Hallelujah" is a joyous expression the Christians have, but "Hare Krishna" has a mystical side to it. It's more than just glorifying God; it's asking to become His servant. And because of the way the mantra is put together, with the mystic spiritual energy contained in those syllables, it's much closer to God than the way Christianity currently seems to be representing Him. Although Christ in my mind is an absolute yogi, I think many Christian teachers today are misrepresenting Christ. They're supposed to be representing Jesus, but they're not doing it very well. They're letting him down very badly, and that's a big turn off.

 

My idea in "My Sweet Lord," because it sounded like a "pop song," was to sneak up on them a bit. The point was to have the people not offended by "Hallelujah," and by the time it gets to "Hare Krishna," they're already hooked, and their foot's tapping, and they're already singing along "Hallelujah," to kind of lull them into a sense of false security. And then suddenly it turns into "Hare Krishna," and they will all be singing that before they know what's happened, and they will think, "Hey, I thought I wasn't supposed to like Hare Krishna!"

 

People write to me even now asking what style that was. Ten years later they're still trying to figure out what the words mean. It was just a little trick really. And it didn't offend. For some reason I never got any offensive feedback from Christians who said "We like it up to a point, but what's all this about Hare Krishna?"

 

Hallelujah may have originally been some mantric thing that got watered down, but I'm not sure what it really means. The Greek word for Christ is Kristos, which is, let's face it, Krishna, and Kristos is the same name actually.

 

Mukunda: What would you say is the difference between the Christian view of God, and Krishna as represented in the Bhagavad-gita?

 

George: When I first came to this house, it was occupied by nuns. I brought in this poster of Visnu [a four-armed form of Krishna]. You just see His head and shoulders and His four arms holding a conchshell and various other symbols, and it has a big om. This transcendental syllable, which represents Krishna, has been chanted by many persons throughout history for spiritual perfection.* written above it. He has a nice aura around Him. I left it by the fireplace and went out into the garden. When we came back in thc house, they all pounced on me, saying, "Who is that? What is it?" as if it were some pagan god. So I said, "Well, if God is unlimited, then He can appear in any form, whichever way He likes to appear. That's one way. He's called Visnu." It sort of freaked them out a bit, but the point is, why should God be limited? Even if you get Him as Krishna, He is not limited to that picture of Krishna. He can be the baby form, He can be Govinda and manifest in so many other well-known forms. You can see Krishna as a little boy, which is how I like to see Krishna. It's a joyful relationship. But there's this morbid side to the way many represent Christianity today, where you don't smile, because it's too serious, and you can't expect to see God--that kind of stuff. If there is God, we must see Him, and I don't believe in the idea you find in most churches, where they say, "No, you're not going to see Him. He's way up above you. Just believe what we tell you and shut up."

 

I mean, the knowledge that's given in Prabhupada's books--the Vedic stuff--that's the world's oldest scriptures. They say that man can become purified, and with divine vision he can see God. You get pure by chanting, then you see Him. And Sanskrit, the language they're written in, is the world's first recorded language. Devanagari [the alphabet of the Sanskrit language] actually means "language of the gods."

 

Mukunda: Anyone who is sincere about making spiritual advancement, whatever one's religion may be, can usually see the value of chanting. I mean if that person was really trying to be God conscious and trying to chant sincerely.

 

George: That's right. It's a matter of being open. Anyone who's open can do it. You just have to be open and not prejudiced. You just have to try it. There's no loss, you know. But the "intellectuals" will always have problems, because they always need to "know." They're often the most spiritually bankrupt people, because they never let go; they don't understand the meaning of "to transcend" the intellect. But an ordinary person's more willing to say, "Okay. Let me try it and see if it works." Chanting Hare Krishna can make a person a better Christian, too.

 

Karma and Reincarnation

 

Mukunda: In I, Me, Mine, you speak about karma and reincarnation, and how the only way to get out of the cycle is to take up a bona fide spiritual process. You said at one point, "Everybody is worried about dying, but the cause of death is birth, so if you don't want to die, you don't get born!" Did any of the other Beatles believe in reincarnation?

 

George: I'm sure John does! And I wouldn't want to underestimate Paul and Ringo. I wouldn't be surprised if they're hoping it's true, you know what I mean? For all I know, Ringo might be a yogi disguised as a drummer!

 

Mukunda: Paul has our latest book, Coming Back: The Science of Reincarnation. Where do you think John's soul is now?

 

George: I should hope that he's in a good place. He had the understanding, though, that each soul reincarnates until it becomes completely pure, and that each soul finds its own level, designated by reactions to its actions in this and previous lives.

 

Mukunda: Bob Dylan did a lot of chanting at one time. He used to come to the Los Angeles temple and came to the Denver and Chicago temples as well. In fact he drove across the United States with two devotees once and wrote several songs about Krishna. They spent a lot of time chanting.

 

George: That's right. He said he enjoyed the chanting and being with them. Also Stevie Wonder had you on one of his records, you know. And it was great the song he put the chanting in--"Pastimes Paradise."

 

Mukunda: When you were in Vrndavana, India, where Lord Krishna appeared, and you saw thousands of people chanting Hare Krishna, did it strengthen your faith in the idea of chanting to see a whole city living Hare Krishna?

 

George: Yeah, it fortifies you. It definitely helps. It's fantastic to be in a place where the whole town is doing it. And I also had the idea that they were all knocked out at the idea of seeing some white person chanting on beads. Vrndavana is one of the holiest cities in India. Everyone, everywhere, chants Hare Krishna. It was my most fantastic experience.

 

Mukunda: You wrote in your book: "Most of the world is fooling about, especially the people who think they control the world and the community. The presidents, the politicians, the military, etc., are all jerking about, acting as if they are Lord over their own domains. That's basically Problem One on the planet."

 

George: That's right. Unless you're doing some kind of God conscious thing and you know that He's the one who's really in charge, you're just building up a lot of karma and not really helping yourself or anybody else. There's a point in me where it's beyond sad, seeing the state of the world today. It's so screwed up. It's terrible, and it will be getting worse and worse. More concrete everywhere, more pollution, more radioactivity. There's no wilderness left, no pure air. They're chopping the forests down. They're polluting all the oceans. In one sense, I'm pessimistic about the future of the planet. These big guys don't realize for everything they do, there's a reaction. You have to pay. That's karma.

 

Mukunda: Do you think there's any hope?

 

George: Yes. One by one, everybody's got to escape maya. Everybody has to burn out his karma and escape reincarnation and all that. Stop thinking that if Britain or America or Russia or the West or whatever becomes superior, then we'll beat them, and then we'll all have a rest and live happily ever after. That doesn't work. The best thing you can give is God consciousness. Manifest your own divinity first. The truth is there. It's right within us all. Understand what you are. If people would just wake up to what's real, there would be no misery in the world. I guess chanting's a pretty good place to start.

 

Mukunda: Thanks so much, George.

 

George: All right. Hare Krishna! [end]

 

ALL GLORIES TO SHRIMAN GEORGE

 

 

Dear Tarun:

 

>>>a few thoughts What is anti-semitism?

 

Reply:

 

Well--is it something different than feeling that that Semites and Jews are Congenitally Evil.

 

>If both Palestinians & Israelis are Semitic, who's really anti-semitic?

 

Reply:

 

Well they have a Feelings about each other which are beyond your Simple Interpretation.

 

They are indeed of the same 'Semitic Origins' and they will at some point--have to accept that--yet to compare the sentiments of each of them for each other--with the Standard Interpretation of "anti-semitic" is Silly.

 

>Semitic languages include Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopian, Hebrew.

 

Reply:

 

The People who Live in the Region of the Middle East have a 'Common Origin' and a 'Common Destiny'--this seems to be Obscured by other--Secondary Issues of Territory --Immaturity and the Pressure of Karma--to some degree in 'both' sides--perpertuates it.

 

Both Sides of this One have some Vaild Arguments--yet Guns and Bombs are not the answer--to THOSE Arguments.

 

Shrimad Bhagavatam states that in Kali Yuga Brothers will Kill Each Other--over Dirt and Less.

 

>Last night I chanted Hare KRSNa [sic] at Timessquare with whom? 2 Jews, 1 Gujarati, 1 Greek, 1 WASP Moreover, so many Jews wearing Yamalkahs passed by dancing.

 

Reply;

 

That's Very Cool! You seen 'Ground Zero'?

 

What does it make you think?

 

>According to this thread title, I thought it beneficial we expose & examine statements by someone who openly declares what Julius declared above.

 

Reply:

 

Yes.

 

>Why hide someone's genuinely felt expression, however wrong?

 

Reply:

 

I did not say that we are to 'censor' anyone.

 

>Our gurudev used the term "nonsense" quite often. Then once he said: "Even in nonsense there's some sense."

 

Reply:

 

Where did he say that--oh and WHO is He? Shrila Prabhupada?

 

>Have you contacted Julius yet?

 

Reply:

 

Who is that? Strieker? Should I contact him? Does he wanna hear about Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

 

Will he be willing to look at Shastric Evidence for why Things are the way they are?

 

>There's even Jews that hate Jews? I've met a few. Have you?

 

Reply:

 

Many people hate their own family--that a Jewish Man might hate his Mothers Son--does not make him a Nazi.

 

>I'm not trying to draw any vicious conclusion herein.

 

Reply:

 

In any Given situation given the symptoms of the Age:

 

SB 12.3.8 - "Political leaders challenge one another: 'All this land is mine! It’s not yours, you fool!' Thus they attack one another and die."

 

SB 12.3.24 - In the age of Kali only one fourth of the religious principles remains. That last remnant will continuously be decreased by the ever-increasing principles of irreligion and will finally be destroyed.

 

SB 12.3.25 - In the Kali age people tend to be greedy, ill-behaved and merciless, and they fight one another without good reason. Unfortunate and obsessed with material desires, the people of Kali-yuga are almost all Shudras and Barbarians.

 

SB 12.3.41 - In Kali-yuga men will develop hatred for each other even over a few coins. Giving up all friendly relations, they will be ready to lose their own lives and kill even their own relatives.

 

That Tarun is the Cause.

 

SB 12.3.43 - O King, in the Age of Kali People's Intelligence will be diverted by Atheism, and they will almost never offer Sacrifice to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supreme Spiritual Master of the Universe. Although the Great Personalities who Control the Three Worlds All Bow Down to the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord, the Petty and Miserable Human Beings of this Age will not do so.

 

>Nonetheless, Donji, they do have their reasons, however unreasonable they may seem to you.

 

Reply:

 

Please see above.

 

>So far blame & hate are concerned, we're being programmed to blame & hate Bin Laden, Taliban, Hussain...

 

Reply:

 

Are we?

 

You say you are in NYC--you have seen the 'Handi Work' of said Asuras?

 

'That alone' goes along way into Creating a Sense of Hate for them.

 

What they did to the Lord Buddha Murti before that--was our 'dark' warning, how is that for creating a Sense of Hate?

 

What would you expect the Ruler of a Nation to respond with for such a Demoniac Attack?

 

>We're supposed to think: If Bushmaster captures Usama, we're successful. Then we can busy ourselves blaming & hating someone else. Such low-blow, low-class knee-jerk conditioning.

 

Reply:

 

You can't think that Mr. Bush's Reaction to this Attack is the same as say Saddam Insanes 'Invasions'.

 

I hardly think that 'Ego' is a major part of this current move.

 

>Do you buy into it? Or flush it where it belongs?

 

Reply:

 

What are we supposed to do with demons who think that they can attack this way?

 

What if they are a "state"?

 

Is our World on it's 'Own' or is God in Control?

 

"The Supreme Lord is Situated in Everyone's Heart, O Arjuna, and is Directing the wanderings of All Living Entities, who are Seated as on a Machine, made of the Material Energy." [bG 18.61]

 

>So far Scapegoating Blame & Hate, anyone who lived through the 60s & early 70s passed up/transcended Ashcan, Bushman & Rumpfelt so long ago.

 

Reply:

 

They are only part of the Picture.

 

>Yet those who know nothing should continue to follow all 3.

 

Reply:

 

Well I think that we have our 'First' Duty--then after that we see how the 'Rest' fits-in...

 

>Till Kingdom come. Or King Dumb comes. He'll save us. You betcha.

 

Who is "King Dumb"?

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-29-2001).]

 

Dear Tarun:

 

>>>a few thoughts What is anti-semitism?

 

Reply:

 

Well--is it something different than feeling that that Semites and Jews are Congenitally Evil.

 

>If both Palestinians & Israelis are Semitic, who's really anti-semitic?

 

Reply:

 

Well they have a Feelings about each other which are beyond your Simple Interpretation.

 

They are indeed of the same 'Semitic Origins' and they will at some point--have to accept that--yet to compare the sentiments of each of them for each other--with the Standard Interpretation of "anti-semitic" is Silly.

 

>Semitic languages include Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopian, Hebrew.

 

Reply:

 

The People who Live in the Region of the Middle East have a 'Common Origin' and a 'Common Destiny'--this seems to be Obscured by other--Secondary Issues of Territory --Immaturity and the Pressure of Karma--to some degree in 'both' sides--perpertuates it.

 

Both Sides of this One have some Vaild Arguments--yet Guns and Bombs are not the answer--to THOSE Arguments.

 

Shrimad Bhagavatam states that in Kali Yuga Brothers will Kill Each Other--over Dirt and Less.

 

>Last night I chanted Hare KRSNa [sic] at Timessquare with whom? 2 Jews, 1 Gujarati, 1 Greek, 1 WASP Moreover, so many Jews wearing Yamalkahs passed by dancing.

 

Reply;

 

That's Very Cool! You seen 'Ground Zero'?

 

What does it make you think?

 

>According to this thread title, I thought it beneficial we expose & examine statements by someone who openly declares what Julius declared above.

 

Reply:

 

Yes.

 

>Why hide someone's genuinely felt expression, however wrong?

 

Reply:

 

I did not say that we are to 'censor' anyone.

 

>Our gurudev used the term "nonsense" quite often. Then once he said: "Even in nonsense there's some sense."

 

Reply:

 

Where did he say that--oh and WHO is He? Shrila Prabhupada?

 

>Have you contacted Julius yet?

 

Reply:

 

Who is that? Strieker? Should I contact him? Does he wanna hear about Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

 

Will he be willing to look at Shastric Evidence for why Things are the way they are?

 

>There's even Jews that hate Jews? I've met a few. Have you?

 

Reply:

 

Many people hate their own family--that a Jewish Man might hate his Mothers Son--does not make him a Nazi.

 

>I'm not trying to draw any vicious conclusion herein.

 

Reply:

 

In any Given situation given the symptoms of the Age:

 

SB 12.3.8 - "Political leaders challenge one another: 'All this land is mine! It’s not yours, you fool!' Thus they attack one another and die."

 

SB 12.3.24 - In the age of Kali only one fourth of the religious principles remains. That last remnant will continuously be decreased by the ever-increasing principles of irreligion and will finally be destroyed.

 

SB 12.3.25 - In the Kali age people tend to be greedy, ill-behaved and merciless, and they fight one another without good reason. Unfortunate and obsessed with material desires, the people of Kali-yuga are almost all Shudras and Barbarians.

 

SB 12.3.41 - In Kali-yuga men will develop hatred for each other even over a few coins. Giving up all friendly relations, they will be ready to lose their own lives and kill even their own relatives.

 

That Tarun is the Cause.

 

SB 12.3.43 - O King, in the Age of Kali People's Intelligence will be diverted by Atheism, and they will almost never offer Sacrifice to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supreme Spiritual Master of the Universe. Although the Great Personalities who Control the Three Worlds All Bow Down to the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord, the Petty and Miserable Human Beings of this Age will not do so.

 

>Nonetheless, Donji, they do have their reasons, however unreasonable they may seem to you.

 

Reply:

 

Please see above.

 

>So far blame & hate are concerned, we're being programmed to blame & hate Bin Laden, Taliban, Hussain...

 

Reply:

 

Are we?

 

You say you are in NYC--you have seen the 'Handi Work' of said Asuras?

 

'That alone' goes along way into Creating a Sense of Hate for them.

 

What they did to the Lord Buddha Murti before that--was our 'dark' warning, how is that for creating a Sense of Hate?

 

What would you expect the Ruler of a Nation to respond with for such a Demoniac Attack?

 

>We're supposed to think: If Bushmaster captures Usama, we're successful. Then we can busy ourselves blaming & hating someone else. Such low-blow, low-class knee-jerk conditioning.

 

Reply:

 

You can't think that Mr. Bush's Reaction to this Attack is the same as say Saddam Insanes 'Invasions'.

 

I hardly think that 'Ego' is a major part of this current move.

 

>Do you buy into it? Or flush it where it belongs?

 

Reply:

 

What are we supposed to do with demons who think that they can attack this way?

 

What if they are a "state"?

 

Is our World on it's 'Own' or is God in Control?

 

"The Supreme Lord is Situated in Everyone's Heart, O Arjuna, and is Directing the wanderings of All Living Entities, who are Seated as on a Machine, made of the Material Energy." [bG 18.61]

 

>So far Scapegoating Blame & Hate, anyone who lived through the 60s & early 70s passed up/transcended Ashcan, Bushman & Rumpfelt so long ago.

 

Reply:

 

They are only part of the Picture.

 

>Yet those who know nothing should continue to follow all 3.

 

Reply:

 

Well I think that we have our 'First' Duty--then after that we see how the 'Rest' fits-in...

 

>Till Kingdom come. Or King Dumb comes. He'll save us. You betcha.

 

Who is "King Dumb"?

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-29-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Janus:

 

>>We can go on and on and on discussing the lamentable results of that spoilage which is still attending and which the children of the movement are the inheritors of. “The sins of the fathers.”

 

Reply:

 

Well that kinda over looks the point succesive generations are the rebirth of the former--so it is a kind of cycle.

 

>>And we can talk about whose to blame, this one and that one, the betrayers of our innocence, of our trust, but talking about what can be done about it, even to this day requires that we pay now attention to the first part of the first sentence.

 

Reply:

 

Those who are to blame for an abuse--The abusers.

 

Personal Responsibility is Further and Further Rubbed Out--in Favor of bringing the whole System to Justice.

 

In a related thought Lord Krishna says:

 

"Nor does the Supreme Spirit assume anyone's Sinful or Pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge."

 

A 'Lawsuit Lottery' approach hardly ever singles-out True Offenders--to Reballance such Situations takes more than 'Jurisprudence' after the fact.

 

To say that that IS the Present Situaiton in ISKCON is Unfair.

 

Things have not been 'Perfect' in ISKCON for many 'External' Reasons--we should deal with those first.

 

>>It indicates that there is something very wrong with things from the inception, did you notice?

 

“Krsna consciousness movement is for training men…”

 

The thing that’s very wrong can be indicated by replacing the word “men” with “children”.

 

Reply:

 

Are you saying Shrila Prabhupada made a mistake?

 

You cannot take this 'one' reference to 'Training Men'--and say Shrila Prabhupada did not have Foresight for 'Training children', you know that is not true!

 

>>Most Americans…everyone. Everyone born in any country in the world today, everyone born within the last…one, two, three centuries and continuing share some major assumptions, some considerations about the world and about themselves. They are in other words conditioned.

 

Reply:

 

Yes--this is what Shastra and Shrila Prabhupada Teach us.

 

>>What they believe then in regards to themselves they even accept to be natural, part of being human, part of their very own natures.

 

Reply:

 

Lord Krishna says:

 

"Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows his nature. What can repression accomplish?" [bG 3.33]

 

>>Examples of such beliefs are that the world is progressing towards a more perfect state through the steady accumulation of human knowledge and techniques, that scientific observation is objective, and most insidious, the belief that each and everyone of us exists as an autonomous entity.

 

Reply:

 

A more Rampant Belief that must be subdued into reason is this:

 

"They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification." [bG 16.11-2]

 

>>This later assumption actually precludes the chance of arriving at a position where independent thought is possible, because we are not capable of thinking independently as how we think is a direct result of our conditioning, we then must be trained to recognize our conditioning and how it effects us..

Reply:

 

Shrila Prabhupada offers the only Program to Fully and Effectivly accomplish this Endeavor.

 

>>Surprisingly the assumptions which we universally share have not always been those of civilized cultures

 

Reply:

 

"Who" are you speaking for?

 

>>are not in fact the consideration of our own Krsna Consciousness view of reality, but they are ours nevertheless for we are conditioned with the one World View, that of the Machine Age, and not the other, the World View of Krsna Consciousness.

Reply:

 

Vedic Culture gives directions to implement a "One World View" into Practical Experiance.

 

>>..we separate the two but it remains obvious in the way that we think and act and react to one another the strength and the power of our conditioning over us as well as the supreme necessity to over power it and that we cannot do as long as it remains invisible to (us).

 

Reply:

 

"The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment." [bG 35.6]

 

"When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation." [bG 5.17]

 

" One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings, and who is free from all sins, achieves liberation in the Supreme." [bG 5.25]

 

"Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated." [bG 9.12]

>>The power of our conditioning, of the strength of any world view is proportionate to the degree that it is internalized, completely invisible as water is invisible to fish and air is to the birds, and yet is that which they swim and fly in.

 

Reply:

 

"All men are forced to act helplessly according to the impulses born of the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment."

 

>>We do not possess the world view of an agrarian God centered society, but of a Machine age Godless society.

 

Reply:

 

Well that ONE 'Development' of Kali Yuga--the Focus moving from Cow Protection to Cow Exploitation--is the 'single' Most Powerfull Cause of the Imballances in our World.

 

>>We have to start from scratch and be trained ourselves as men, then and only then can the Krsna consciousness movement provide adequate training to our children.

 

Reply:

 

That is why Shrila Prabhupada was All the Time asking the Leading Men of the World to take Serious the 'Complete Process' He is giving us--to make Global Varnashram-Dharma a Reality.

 

>>Srila Prabhupada commenting upon the result of our conditioning when he described us as ALL being atheists, not a single exception.

 

Reply:

 

He said we are all Mayavadi--Impersonalists.

 

>>Because we are not autonomous, because we are the products of our conditioning, of our internalized world view.

 

Reply:

 

In the 'State of God' which is the actual 'State' we live in we are all--'autonomous' in Terms of the particular Direction we are headed--based on our Merits and Desires.

 

>>Do you think that anyone who truly believed in Krsna could have committed such crimes against our innocent godbrothers and godsisters, against our friends and families, against even women and children who were not really atheists, and these criminal perpetrators were considered to be the crem dela cream of our Krsna Conscious society at one time?

Reply:

 

No. Shrila Prabhupada warned us that not everyone who is claiming he is a devotee in this Society IS a devotee.

 

>>...the effects of our subconscious internalized world view is much more powerful over us than our conscious acceptance of any competing world view.

 

Reply:

 

That may be true in the connection I have noted above--in that the Average Person may be living to Gratify their Senses in a '20 foot Reality'.

 

>>One cannot serve two masters.

 

Reply:

 

That is incorrect. Define 'Masters'!

 

>>Integrity is the key and for this that which lies beneath must be revealed and integrated so that we subscibe to only a single world view, that of guru, sadhu and shastra.

 

Reply:

 

The 'Key' is: an Integrated View Point--which subscibes to a Single World View, with 'Administration' that is based on Guru, Sadhu and Shastra.

 

>>Otherwise we set the stage for psychosis, this is evident by the history of our movement in the last 30 years behind us.

 

Reply:

 

"This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again." [bG 9.10]

 

The 'psychosis in the last 30 years' on this PLANET not just in ISKCON are a result of the AGE of Kali--and its concomitant factors--and that verse should be considered.

 

You might've been unfair to use that word about psychosis regarding ISKCON--'dysfuctional' would be a better word?

 

Your Srevant,

 

Bhakta don

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-29-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Janus:

 

>>We can go on and on and on discussing the lamentable results of that spoilage which is still attending and which the children of the movement are the inheritors of. “The sins of the fathers.”

 

Reply:

 

Well that kinda over looks the point succesive generations are the rebirth of the former--so it is a kind of cycle.

 

>>And we can talk about whose to blame, this one and that one, the betrayers of our innocence, of our trust, but talking about what can be done about it, even to this day requires that we pay now attention to the first part of the first sentence.

 

Reply:

 

Those who are to blame for an abuse--The abusers.

 

Personal Responsibility is Further and Further Rubbed Out--in Favor of bringing the whole System to Justice.

 

In a related thought Lord Krishna says:

 

"Nor does the Supreme Spirit assume anyone's Sinful or Pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge."

 

A 'Lawsuit Lottery' approach hardly ever singles-out True Offenders--to Reballance such Situations takes more than 'Jurisprudence' after the fact.

 

To say that that IS the Present Situaiton in ISKCON is Unfair.

 

Things have not been 'Perfect' in ISKCON for many 'External' Reasons--we should deal with those first.

 

>>It indicates that there is something very wrong with things from the inception, did you notice?

 

“Krsna consciousness movement is for training men…”

 

The thing that’s very wrong can be indicated by replacing the word “men” with “children”.

 

Reply:

 

Are you saying Shrila Prabhupada made a mistake?

 

You cannot take this 'one' reference to 'Training Men'--and say Shrila Prabhupada did not have Foresight for 'Training children', you know that is not true!

 

>>Most Americans…everyone. Everyone born in any country in the world today, everyone born within the last…one, two, three centuries and continuing share some major assumptions, some considerations about the world and about themselves. They are in other words conditioned.

 

Reply:

 

Yes--this is what Shastra and Shrila Prabhupada Teach us.

 

>>What they believe then in regards to themselves they even accept to be natural, part of being human, part of their very own natures.

 

Reply:

 

Lord Krishna says:

 

"Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows his nature. What can repression accomplish?" [bG 3.33]

 

>>Examples of such beliefs are that the world is progressing towards a more perfect state through the steady accumulation of human knowledge and techniques, that scientific observation is objective, and most insidious, the belief that each and everyone of us exists as an autonomous entity.

 

Reply:

 

A more Rampant Belief that must be subdued into reason is this:

 

"They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification." [bG 16.11-2]

 

>>This later assumption actually precludes the chance of arriving at a position where independent thought is possible, because we are not capable of thinking independently as how we think is a direct result of our conditioning, we then must be trained to recognize our conditioning and how it effects us..

Reply:

 

Shrila Prabhupada offers the only Program to Fully and Effectivly accomplish this Endeavor.

 

>>Surprisingly the assumptions which we universally share have not always been those of civilized cultures

 

Reply:

 

"Who" are you speaking for?

 

>>are not in fact the consideration of our own Krsna Consciousness view of reality, but they are ours nevertheless for we are conditioned with the one World View, that of the Machine Age, and not the other, the World View of Krsna Consciousness.

Reply:

 

Vedic Culture gives directions to implement a "One World View" into Practical Experiance.

 

>>..we separate the two but it remains obvious in the way that we think and act and react to one another the strength and the power of our conditioning over us as well as the supreme necessity to over power it and that we cannot do as long as it remains invisible to (us).

 

Reply:

 

"The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment." [bG 35.6]

 

"When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation." [bG 5.17]

 

" One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings, and who is free from all sins, achieves liberation in the Supreme." [bG 5.25]

 

"Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated." [bG 9.12]

>>The power of our conditioning, of the strength of any world view is proportionate to the degree that it is internalized, completely invisible as water is invisible to fish and air is to the birds, and yet is that which they swim and fly in.

 

Reply:

 

"All men are forced to act helplessly according to the impulses born of the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment."

 

>>We do not possess the world view of an agrarian God centered society, but of a Machine age Godless society.

 

Reply:

 

Well that ONE 'Development' of Kali Yuga--the Focus moving from Cow Protection to Cow Exploitation--is the 'single' Most Powerfull Cause of the Imballances in our World.

 

>>We have to start from scratch and be trained ourselves as men, then and only then can the Krsna consciousness movement provide adequate training to our children.

 

Reply:

 

That is why Shrila Prabhupada was All the Time asking the Leading Men of the World to take Serious the 'Complete Process' He is giving us--to make Global Varnashram-Dharma a Reality.

 

>>Srila Prabhupada commenting upon the result of our conditioning when he described us as ALL being atheists, not a single exception.

 

Reply:

 

He said we are all Mayavadi--Impersonalists.

 

>>Because we are not autonomous, because we are the products of our conditioning, of our internalized world view.

 

Reply:

 

In the 'State of God' which is the actual 'State' we live in we are all--'autonomous' in Terms of the particular Direction we are headed--based on our Merits and Desires.

 

>>Do you think that anyone who truly believed in Krsna could have committed such crimes against our innocent godbrothers and godsisters, against our friends and families, against even women and children who were not really atheists, and these criminal perpetrators were considered to be the crem dela cream of our Krsna Conscious society at one time?

Reply:

 

No. Shrila Prabhupada warned us that not everyone who is claiming he is a devotee in this Society IS a devotee.

 

>>...the effects of our subconscious internalized world view is much more powerful over us than our conscious acceptance of any competing world view.

 

Reply:

 

That may be true in the connection I have noted above--in that the Average Person may be living to Gratify their Senses in a '20 foot Reality'.

 

>>One cannot serve two masters.

 

Reply:

 

That is incorrect. Define 'Masters'!

 

>>Integrity is the key and for this that which lies beneath must be revealed and integrated so that we subscibe to only a single world view, that of guru, sadhu and shastra.

 

Reply:

 

The 'Key' is: an Integrated View Point--which subscibes to a Single World View, with 'Administration' that is based on Guru, Sadhu and Shastra.

 

>>Otherwise we set the stage for psychosis, this is evident by the history of our movement in the last 30 years behind us.

 

Reply:

 

"This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again." [bG 9.10]

 

The 'psychosis in the last 30 years' on this PLANET not just in ISKCON are a result of the AGE of Kali--and its concomitant factors--and that verse should be considered.

 

You might've been unfair to use that word about psychosis regarding ISKCON--'dysfuctional' would be a better word?

 

Your Srevant,

 

Bhakta don

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-29-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

Thank you for accepting my eariler 'regrets' on my Posting Confusions.

 

Stone: I grew up among Masons, many of whom are very conservative and painfully patriotic, so it's a little hard to see them as the core of the International Jewish Conspiracy embodied in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

Reply:

 

What do you mean by "International Jewish Conspiracy embodied in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations."?

 

As per the first part regarding the Masons--I do not agree--"Very Conservative and Painfully Patriotic"--is a Very Good Estimation of the Individuals who Act within the Council on Foreign Relations--they are an International Organization with a Common Vision.

 

I sometimes think that the "New World Order's" 'Gradualization' Approach is not such a good thing--in light of the Serious Advances of this Age of Kali.

 

An absence of many so-called open answers about the "Group" and its 'Programs' induces a kind of Superstition in People. People are also Inclined to think the Worst about that which they do not have clear information about.

 

A Question that seems to arrise in a discussion of this Topic is whether or not "Globalization" is a 'Zionist' Invention--the Fact is it is NOT.

 

The Global Community Idea is found Extensivly in the Vedic Shastras/Purana--a Global Administration has Existed in the Past and--IS Preferable to Fully Independant Regional Administration--for many Reasons.

 

One is--this constant botheration that certain Regions of the Earth decide to Act in Total Disregard of the Rest.

 

Each Nation has a Responsiblity to and a Guaranteed access to Benefits to improve the Regions.

 

The United Nations is only the Natural Blue Print for the Eventual Proper Global Administration.

 

Even as a Child I felt that the UN would be better as an actual Government. At least make the Step--and then work out the inevitable Problems--they cannot all be worked out prior--despite all Good Intentions to do so.

 

The 'Pause' on this whole Scenario seems to be "on" because they do wish to Minimise the Social Reactions--yet they are in a Race with the Decay of the Kali Age...

 

Another Name for the 'Builderburg Group' is 'Illuminati'-- which comes from 'Illumination'.

 

Their 'Idea' of a Global Government--is very Ancient--Quite Universal in Expression.

 

This is from Long Standing Serious Interest in Ancient Philosophy and the Mystical--which IS Good.

 

How many 'Common People' are Engaged in some sort of 'New Age' Practice--Yoga, Meditiation etc., it is very 'Common' because it is Meant to be--it IS a Result of the Appearance of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in 1486 C.E.--'Ending the "Dark Ages"--for Ten Thousand Years...'

 

The 'Illuminati'--a Group of 'Leaders'--in a way are Engaged--in the Same kinds of things--hence the 'History' of the Masons etc., we can see they are Attempting to bring an 'Ideal'--into Reality.

 

It is a Good Thing that this 'Spirit' has entered Politics...

 

We should not allow Ourselves to become 'Prejudiced' to a 'Good Idea' [the Natural Evolution of this 'Trancendental Interuption to Kali Yuga'] by so-called Reasonable Arguments--usually based in an subtle 'Bigot Logic'.

 

[i'm NOT saying this about you Prabhu!]

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

It IS to be Seen to--that it 'Evolves' Toward the Vedic...

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-28-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-28-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

Thank you for accepting my eariler 'regrets' on my Posting Confusions.

 

Stone: I grew up among Masons, many of whom are very conservative and painfully patriotic, so it's a little hard to see them as the core of the International Jewish Conspiracy embodied in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

Reply:

 

What do you mean by "International Jewish Conspiracy embodied in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations."?

 

As per the first part regarding the Masons--I do not agree--"Very Conservative and Painfully Patriotic"--is a Very Good Estimation of the Individuals who Act within the Council on Foreign Relations--they are an International Organization with a Common Vision.

 

I sometimes think that the "New World Order's" 'Gradualization' Approach is not such a good thing--in light of the Serious Advances of this Age of Kali.

 

An absence of many so-called open answers about the "Group" and its 'Programs' induces a kind of Superstition in People. People are also Inclined to think the Worst about that which they do not have clear information about.

 

A Question that seems to arrise in a discussion of this Topic is whether or not "Globalization" is a 'Zionist' Invention--the Fact is it is NOT.

 

The Global Community Idea is found Extensivly in the Vedic Shastras/Purana--a Global Administration has Existed in the Past and--IS Preferable to Fully Independant Regional Administration--for many Reasons.

 

One is--this constant botheration that certain Regions of the Earth decide to Act in Total Disregard of the Rest.

 

Each Nation has a Responsiblity to and a Guaranteed access to Benefits to improve the Regions.

 

The United Nations is only the Natural Blue Print for the Eventual Proper Global Administration.

 

Even as a Child I felt that the UN would be better as an actual Government. At least make the Step--and then work out the inevitable Problems--they cannot all be worked out prior--despite all Good Intentions to do so.

 

The 'Pause' on this whole Scenario seems to be "on" because they do wish to Minimise the Social Reactions--yet they are in a Race with the Decay of the Kali Age...

 

Another Name for the 'Builderburg Group' is 'Illuminati'-- which comes from 'Illumination'.

 

Their 'Idea' of a Global Government--is very Ancient--Quite Universal in Expression.

 

This is from Long Standing Serious Interest in Ancient Philosophy and the Mystical--which IS Good.

 

How many 'Common People' are Engaged in some sort of 'New Age' Practice--Yoga, Meditiation etc., it is very 'Common' because it is Meant to be--it IS a Result of the Appearance of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in 1486 C.E.--'Ending the "Dark Ages"--for Ten Thousand Years...'

 

The 'Illuminati'--a Group of 'Leaders'--in a way are Engaged--in the Same kinds of things--hence the 'History' of the Masons etc., we can see they are Attempting to bring an 'Ideal'--into Reality.

 

It is a Good Thing that this 'Spirit' has entered Politics...

 

We should not allow Ourselves to become 'Prejudiced' to a 'Good Idea' [the Natural Evolution of this 'Trancendental Interuption to Kali Yuga'] by so-called Reasonable Arguments--usually based in an subtle 'Bigot Logic'.

 

[i'm NOT saying this about you Prabhu!]

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

It IS to be Seen to--that it 'Evolves' Toward the Vedic...

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-28-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-28-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Here is the 'Something' on one of my Points:

 

In a Letter [Regarding Management] to a Devotee named Karandhar, 72-12-22, Shrila Prabhupada writes; "...this Krishna Conciousness Movement is meant for Training to be Independently Thoughtful...in all types of Knowledge and Action..."

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Here is the 'Something' on one of my Points:

 

In a Letter [Regarding Management] to a Devotee named Karandhar, 72-12-22, Shrila Prabhupada writes; "...this Krishna Conciousness Movement is meant for Training to be Independently Thoughtful...in all types of Knowledge and Action..."

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

Stone: Challenging Tarun's perceived prejudices is defferent from calling him all sorts of nasty names.

 

Reply:

 

Actually I was talking about the Person who wrote the Original Message--I was not clear on that--I am sorry.

 

Stone: How about some honesty here? You called him a drug dealer and a cow killer, among other things.

 

Reply:

 

Again I was not talking about Tarun. The Original Author said:

 

I therefore urge the youth to start up not only defending their countries - but bringing the Jews to the courts of justice. Not to their courts but to ours, where we are the judges, prosecutors and executors. I would like to be one of the prosecuters. I think I qualify for such a job. My credentials are:

 

>- not feeling sorry for a "Dead" Jew

 

>-You are all Germans in the eye of the Jews

 

>-If you do not hate, you are not prepared for the final battle for the

>survival of your race.

 

Now when Tarun's Posts are checked eariler in this String we see this:

 

>-Who can say for sure whether 'Tony Curtis', 'Kirk Douglas' & 'Edward G Robinson' were Bar Mitzvahed or not?

 

Those are His Words.

 

In his 'defense' these are also his words:

 

>-So many Jews become Hare KRSNa devotees: that is best.

 

So we have some Interesting Mix of Ideas. It just troubled me that Tarun did not Post his Rebuttal of the Message with the Message--his comments instead were:

 

>-Somewhat bias. Still it contains some interesting facts.

 

>-Keep in mind: some Jews not all.

 

So that is it?

 

Stone: Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy.

 

Reply:

 

Ooh fancy lingo! Does it mean anything?

 

Stone: Yes it does. It's Latin for "You, too." It's the mistake of "arguing" by saying, "You think I'm a dope? Well, you're an even bigger idiot! So there!" You're clearly clever enough to come up with something better.

 

Reply:

 

You are correct--I can come up with better!

 

Stone: No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Reply:

 

Very Occasionally--and it would be 'something' not 'anything'.

 

Stone: If "anything" bothers you, fine. I was trying to cast a wide net.

 

Reply:

 

When we speak what we have Heard From Shrila Prabhupada then there can be no Error--yet we are to be Trained in Independent Thinking etc., so as to Apply this Vedic Science 'Practiclly' to the World.

 

My Observations regarding the Politics of the Planet are not as far off as you might think.

 

Ideas like those in the Message in question deserve no reply--what to speak of a 'Mannered' one. I replied because I did not want Visitors to see some kind of seeming anti-semitic sentiments--go 'un'questioned. I could have used better words in some areas.

 

It was also an oppourtunity to respond with some Question on the allegations against the 'Builderburg Group'--why must they be 'Evil'? Because they are "Masons and Jews"?

 

>I am sorry that I have offended you! But the facts are the facts after all.

 

Stone: I'm not at all offended--just a little annoyed to see how devotees so persistently discuss things in such a heated tone.

 

Reply:

 

I know--I agree with you. But as before-mentioned the tone of the Message was too far off to be polite to all of it.

 

Stone: One thing I don't like about this sort of "conversation" is the lack of responsibility the participants feel for what they write, since they don't have to be in the same (real) room with the others.

 

Reply:

 

Being Mindfull of Hackers--I am more aware of this 'Responsibility'--even if I get into a Heated Exchange with people in Messaging if I say something that needs 'Retraction' and/or appology--then I do it.

 

Stone: So, from your parting shot, should we infer that it's a fact that Tarun is a drug dealer and cow killer?

 

Repy:

 

No he is neither--if he is a devotee, which he apparently is.

 

Mr. "Streiker" on the other hand is most likely both. He is the latter for sure.

 

Stone: Or are you just pee'd off because you don't like the black UN helicopter, "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" talk? Look, I don't buy that stuff, either, but I'm not ready to call all devotees who do cow killers.

 

Reply:

 

See above.

 

 

Pardon me if I sometimes sound uppity and preachy. My job and my age kind of condition me to that.

 

Reply:

 

That is Perfectly Fine. You don't really sound either.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

Stone: Challenging Tarun's perceived prejudices is defferent from calling him all sorts of nasty names.

 

Reply:

 

Actually I was talking about the Person who wrote the Original Message--I was not clear on that--I am sorry.

 

Stone: How about some honesty here? You called him a drug dealer and a cow killer, among other things.

 

Reply:

 

Again I was not talking about Tarun. The Original Author said:

 

I therefore urge the youth to start up not only defending their countries - but bringing the Jews to the courts of justice. Not to their courts but to ours, where we are the judges, prosecutors and executors. I would like to be one of the prosecuters. I think I qualify for such a job. My credentials are:

 

>- not feeling sorry for a "Dead" Jew

 

>-You are all Germans in the eye of the Jews

 

>-If you do not hate, you are not prepared for the final battle for the

>survival of your race.

 

Now when Tarun's Posts are checked eariler in this String we see this:

 

>-Who can say for sure whether 'Tony Curtis', 'Kirk Douglas' & 'Edward G Robinson' were Bar Mitzvahed or not?

 

Those are His Words.

 

In his 'defense' these are also his words:

 

>-So many Jews become Hare KRSNa devotees: that is best.

 

So we have some Interesting Mix of Ideas. It just troubled me that Tarun did not Post his Rebuttal of the Message with the Message--his comments instead were:

 

>-Somewhat bias. Still it contains some interesting facts.

 

>-Keep in mind: some Jews not all.

 

So that is it?

 

Stone: Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy.

 

Reply:

 

Ooh fancy lingo! Does it mean anything?

 

Stone: Yes it does. It's Latin for "You, too." It's the mistake of "arguing" by saying, "You think I'm a dope? Well, you're an even bigger idiot! So there!" You're clearly clever enough to come up with something better.

 

Reply:

 

You are correct--I can come up with better!

 

Stone: No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Reply:

 

Very Occasionally--and it would be 'something' not 'anything'.

 

Stone: If "anything" bothers you, fine. I was trying to cast a wide net.

 

Reply:

 

When we speak what we have Heard From Shrila Prabhupada then there can be no Error--yet we are to be Trained in Independent Thinking etc., so as to Apply this Vedic Science 'Practiclly' to the World.

 

My Observations regarding the Politics of the Planet are not as far off as you might think.

 

Ideas like those in the Message in question deserve no reply--what to speak of a 'Mannered' one. I replied because I did not want Visitors to see some kind of seeming anti-semitic sentiments--go 'un'questioned. I could have used better words in some areas.

 

It was also an oppourtunity to respond with some Question on the allegations against the 'Builderburg Group'--why must they be 'Evil'? Because they are "Masons and Jews"?

 

>I am sorry that I have offended you! But the facts are the facts after all.

 

Stone: I'm not at all offended--just a little annoyed to see how devotees so persistently discuss things in such a heated tone.

 

Reply:

 

I know--I agree with you. But as before-mentioned the tone of the Message was too far off to be polite to all of it.

 

Stone: One thing I don't like about this sort of "conversation" is the lack of responsibility the participants feel for what they write, since they don't have to be in the same (real) room with the others.

 

Reply:

 

Being Mindfull of Hackers--I am more aware of this 'Responsibility'--even if I get into a Heated Exchange with people in Messaging if I say something that needs 'Retraction' and/or appology--then I do it.

 

Stone: So, from your parting shot, should we infer that it's a fact that Tarun is a drug dealer and cow killer?

 

Repy:

 

No he is neither--if he is a devotee, which he apparently is.

 

Mr. "Streiker" on the other hand is most likely both. He is the latter for sure.

 

Stone: Or are you just pee'd off because you don't like the black UN helicopter, "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" talk? Look, I don't buy that stuff, either, but I'm not ready to call all devotees who do cow killers.

 

Reply:

 

See above.

 

 

Pardon me if I sometimes sound uppity and preachy. My job and my age kind of condition me to that.

 

Reply:

 

That is Perfectly Fine. You don't really sound either.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

Originally posted by stonehearted:

Stone: My, my . . . we're a little worked up, aren't we? I thought the postings on this board were supposed to be civil. So far, Don, you've shown a talent for name calling, which isn't a very mature way to discuss things. Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy. No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Is our moderator asleep at the keyboard, or can we write any damned thing about each other as long as we include a quotation from the VedaBase somewhere in our posting?

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

>Stone: My, my . . . we're a little worked up, aren't we?

 

Reply;

 

No not really.

 

>I thought the postings on this board were supposed to be civil.

 

Reply:

 

Well I was simply pointing out the obvious anti-semitic bunk. Tarun did not even consider removing certain parts of that post for 'posterity'.

 

>So far, Don, you've shown a talent for name calling, which isn't a very mature way to discuss things.

 

Reply:

 

I don't agree--I am not 'really' name calling--thanks for recognizing some so-called talent!

 

>Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy.

 

Reply:

 

Ooh fancy lingo! Does it mean anything?

 

>No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Reply:

 

Very Occasionally--and it would be 'something' not 'anything'.

 

I am sorry that I have offended you! But the facts are the facts after all.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

Originally posted by stonehearted:

Stone: My, my . . . we're a little worked up, aren't we? I thought the postings on this board were supposed to be civil. So far, Don, you've shown a talent for name calling, which isn't a very mature way to discuss things. Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy. No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Is our moderator asleep at the keyboard, or can we write any damned thing about each other as long as we include a quotation from the VedaBase somewhere in our posting?

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear Stone:

 

>Stone: My, my . . . we're a little worked up, aren't we?

 

Reply;

 

No not really.

 

>I thought the postings on this board were supposed to be civil.

 

Reply:

 

Well I was simply pointing out the obvious anti-semitic bunk. Tarun did not even consider removing certain parts of that post for 'posterity'.

 

>So far, Don, you've shown a talent for name calling, which isn't a very mature way to discuss things.

 

Reply:

 

I don't agree--I am not 'really' name calling--thanks for recognizing some so-called talent!

 

>Now you've resorted to a fancy form of the tu quoque fallacy.

 

Reply:

 

Ooh fancy lingo! Does it mean anything?

 

>No chance that anything you say could be even a little mistaken occasionally?

 

Reply:

 

Very Occasionally--and it would be 'something' not 'anything'.

 

I am sorry that I have offended you! But the facts are the facts after all.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[i have framed my replies in the quote for want of Time--Bhakta don]

 

Originally posted by mahak:

>Well, talkin anti christ is up my alley, and my opinion is shared by a person on the web that pulls no punches, and I respect this journalist. Her views on the subject are presented below, and the logic is there.

 

Reply:

 

I beg to differ!

 

>AC is not a demagogue, just the opposite, he will be seen as a peacemaker. not binLaden, but perhaps the person who makes this guys philosophy moot.

 

Reply:

 

There is no such thing as "Antichrist"--or Satanic 'Beast' made Man!

 

>AC will be the guy who ends international terrorism (not W, who may have made is much worse), restores confidence in the worlds infrastructure and economic stability.

 

Reply:

 

How this Mythical Beast can do the Impossible? When everyone in recent history has tried and failed?

 

If the mythical 'it' could pull 'that' off why would 'it' follow the Course you say 'it' will in terms of setting himself down in the so-called Hebrew Temple to declare "Godhood" bringing an end to all of it?

 

>Hes here, even my Guru stated that his birth took place in the 50s.

 

Reply:

 

Who is your Guru?

 

>read on if ya like. (Note the date of the article and marvel at the monetary crash and massive terror strike amply predicted prior to the fact.

 

Reply:

 

This is nothing new! Ever heard Jack Van Impe? How bout the other 500 Preachers Bilking the Masses with this whole Twisted 'Fairy Tale'?

 

>THE KEATING PERSPECTIVE Okay. So the word is out about the Antichrist. His true identity has been revealed. For those of you who may have missed the Monday or Friday Sightings shows, let me fill you in on it. Benjamin Crème is promoting his savior, Maitreya, as god incarnate. Once again, for the record, this guy, according to 500 visionaries, is THE guy. There is also another guy in New Mexico who appears to be vying for the same infamous title. This may add to some confusion, but I think there is a reason we are seeing two world teachers.

 

Reply:

 

Here at the very start--is where this "Keating Perspective" plunges into the mucky pond of conspiracy bunk--these two people she Names are simply some Scammers--NOBODIES!

 

So many I have heard of including Ms. Kathleen--tout these so-called 'sightings' like it is some special thing! Whatever! I can assure you this 'Pretender' claiming whatever he is and others like Him are not in any way a 'Part' of the Bonafide New World Order.

 

>It is true that there will be many smaller Antichrists, some significant players, especially world leaders, who will qualify as Antichrists.

 

Reply:

 

There are many Godless and Asuric People and some of them in the 'Nations' of this Planet 'sit' at the Top Executive Post--yet to call them "antichrists" in the present sense is a joke.

 

Here is What Lord Krishna Says:

 

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them." [bG 16.7]

 

"...the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world." [bG 16.9]

 

>However, in the final analysis, only one "man" will be the ultimate Antichrist.

 

Reply:

 

There is no Satan--the fact is this whole antichrist Idea builds around the False notion of a Mythic Fallen Angel called 'Lucifer'.

 

The Whole concept of Satan is Inter-polated into Biblical 'Reality' from the ancient Persian Religion.

 

That is why we read this in the Book of Isaiah [45.7]:

 

"I Form the Light, and Create Darkness: I make Peace, and Create Evil: I the LORD do all these things."

 

The So-called Biblical 'Born Again' Groups are very 'Concerted' and their 'Ideas' come from--'unknown' sources as far as Authority is concerned.

 

The Personality of Kali is the Real Enemy of the Universe--it is His 'Time', He has some control of things yet--we know that God will bring the Solution--He says so in the Bhagavad Gita!

 

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself."

 

"Purport" by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:

 

"The word srjami is significant herein. Srjami cannot be used in the sense of creation, because, according to the previous verse, there is no creation of the Lord's form or body, since all of the forms are eternally existent. Therefore, srjami means that the Lord manifests Himself as He is. Although the Lord appears on schedule, namely at the end of the Dvapara-yuga of the twenty-eighth millennium of the eighth Manu in one day of Brahma, still He has no obligation to adhere to such rules and regulations because He is completely free to act in many ways at His will. He therefore appears by His own will whenever there is a predominance of irreligiosity and a disappearance of true religion. Principles of religion are laid down in the Vedas, and any discrepancy in the matter of properly executing the rules of the Vedas makes one irreligious. In the Bhagavatam it is stated that such principles are the laws of the Lord. Only the Lord can manufacture a system of religion. The Vedas are also accepted as originally spoken by the Lord Himself to Brahma, from within his heart. Therefore, the principles of dharma, or religion, are the direct orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam). These principles are clearly indicated throughout the Bhagavad-gita. The purpose of the Vedas is to establish such principles under the order of the Supreme Lord, and the Lord directly orders, at the end of the Gita, that the highest principle of religion is to surrender unto Him only, and nothing more. The Vedic principles push one towards complete surrender unto Him; and, whenever such principles are disturbed by the demoniac, the Lord appears. From the Bhagavatam we understand that Lord Buddha is the incarnation of Krsna who appeared when materialism was rampant and materialists were using the pretext of the authority of the Vedas. Although there are certain restrictive rules and regulations regarding animal sacrifice for particular purposes in the Vedas, people of demonic tendency still took to animal sacrifice without reference to the Vedic principles. Lord Buddha appeared to stop this nonsense and to establish the Vedic principles of nonviolence. Therefore each and every avatara, or incarnation of the Lord, has a particular mission, and they are all described in the revealed scriptures. No one should be accepted as an avatara unless he is referred to by scriptures. It is not a fact that the Lord appears only on Indian soil. He can advent Himself anywhere and everywhere, and whenever He desires to appear. In each and every incarnation, He speaks as much about religion as can be understood by the particular people under their particular circumstances. But the mission is the same--to lead people to God consciousness and obedience to the principles of religion. Sometimes He descends personally, and sometimes He sends His bona fide representative in the form of His son, or servant, or Himself in some disguised form..." [bG 4.7]

 

Let's suppose that there will be a World 'Leader' and 'Teacher'--if the Whole world 'Loved' them--why would that be Bad--if it WAS Lord Krishna Behind it?

 

>Of course, Crème isn’t touting Maitreya (hereinafter referred to as Turban Head) as the AC.

 

Reply:

 

The World "Leader" won't be a "Man" it will be a "Group". This 'Maitreya' is not involved.

 

>No. It is the contrary. According to Crème, Turban Head is the savior, the Christ.

 

Reply:

 

You know what this 'Maitreya' or whatever--isn't anything more than a small time Charletan or New Age, Bluffer, "Rip-off" of the 'Vedic'.

 

I think that 'Maitreya' is a very Profitable 'Figment' of Ben Creme's Imagination!

 

The so-called pictures of 'sightings' etc., are really Cosmic Comical!

 

There really are many many 'Facsimiles' of 'Him' [them] making Millions from those who wish to be Cheated!

 

It has been said "there is a Sucker born every...".

 

>So how does the guy in New Mexico fit into the equation? I think Turban Head will proclaim Emmanuel, his counterpart in New Mexico, to be the actual AC. It’s the perfect set-up. In fact, we might even see Turban Head, the World Teacher, take this magical wonder out of the game. The reason for this may be quite simple and a great idea, from Turban Head’s perspective. By removing the other world teacher, Turban Head can declare that he has rid the world of the dreaded Antichrist.

 

Reply:

 

Sounds like a 'B' Movie I saw Last Week.

 

>Therefore, we will have nothing to fear, and certainly, we shouldn’t fear our powerful savior. That is akin to blowing the "all clear" signal just before the F5 tornado hits.

 

Reply:

 

Again--how could this 'Maitreya' win over the Hearts of 'everyone' in the World?

 

One would have to be 'Stupid'--beyond Hope for that to Happen! I have a hard time accepting that the Mass of Populations of the 'Free Nations' will accept 'His' Claims--'Tricks' or Otherwise.

 

'Maitreya' says that SAI BABBA is the 'Cosmic Avatara of Love'--and we know the 'Truth' about Sai Babba--don't we!

 

>Whether or not this will be the scenario, we are on course to see the reign of the Antichrist, not only in our lifetimes, but very soon.

 

Reply:

 

Ah--some Admission of Mental Speclations--and Other 'Possible' Futures!

 

>St, John of the Cleft Rock, a 14th Century prophet, said, "It is said that twenty centuries after the Incarnation of the Word, the Beast in its turn shall become man. About the year 2000 AD, Antichrist will reveal himself to the world."

 

Reply:

 

WELL--IT DID NOT HAPPEN!

 

There IS NO 'Satan' thus 'he' is not sending some 'antichrist'!

 

>For all intents and purposes, the AC is here. But what does that mean for us?

 

Reply:

 

A false 'Idea' which exists in the Minds of many people--Spelling Disaster for the 'Unwise'--who wish to 'Martyr' themselves over Obvious 'Illusions'.

 

>According to visionaries, we will soon see a monetary crash that will involve the entire world.

 

Reply:

 

There are many Natural Karmic Causes for this.

 

Even if such an event is going to be 'forced' it is for good reason--there are too many crooks who must start paying their share--and the Improper Trade in Currency will be a thing of the Past--we should have a common Global Currency and not Invest on the 'Power of the Dollar' etc., we should invest in 'people'.

 

It seems that in the absence of some 'Reason' people can become very Paranoid--and Forgetfull of Lord Krishna's 'Promise' to Protect the Surrendered Soul:

 

"But those who Worship Me with Devotion, Meditating on My Transcendental Form--to them I Carry what they Lack and Preserve what they Have." [bG 9.22]

 

"...O son of Kunti, Declare it Boldly that My Devotee Never Perishes." [bG 9.31]

 

>Even some market analysts fear we are headed for a big financial decline. Turban Head has predicted a monetary collapse for some time. This collapse has to happen to put the ball into play for all end-time events.

 

Reply:

 

See above replies.

 

>Along with the catastrophic collapse, we will see extreme terrorism in the US.

 

Reply;

 

Case in point about my comments on Demons in positions of 'Leadership' of any kind in some of the demoniac Nations--to say that some mythic antichrist is responsible is sadly misguided--and side steps the real cause.

 

>Already, Russia and China have formed an unholy alliance against us. Their saber rattling should be given considerable attention. Obviously, the administration in Washington has made plans for the inevitable strike against the US. FEMA and various supporting agencies have geared up to handle the attack. It is only a matter of time.

 

Reply:

 

Both of these Nations--China in Particular suffer from Extreme--'Regional Superiority Complex'--causing a Severe Imballance in the World--all a part of the 'Collective Karma' of the Planet.

 

>Then, of course, some visionaries have mentioned that a comet strike is due sometime between September and December.

 

Reply:

 

Can we not see with the 'Odds' that are Evident by the High Number of 'Earth Orbit Crossing' Asteroids etc., we are given great evidence that God is Protecting the Earth--yet the Godlessness rampant begs for Attention--from someone!

 

>My sources indicate that we will indeed see cosmic dust and debris along with larger rocks. These rocks will light up the skies on their entry into our atmosphere and some may survive, hitting the Earth. As yet, these sources do not think we will see a serious "impact" this year. That is not to say, however, that a significant impact will not happen. Prophecy has been quite clear that we are scheduled for two major impacts. Certainly, when the comets do strike the Earth, we will be thrown into a devastating time with severe weather changes and crop failures in addition to the tidal waves and destruction of cities.

 

Reply:

 

Well--if it happens I know that Lord Krishna will Protect His Surrendered Souls!

 

>If you add these and other factors together, we can see that we are headed for chaotic times.

 

Reply:

 

"Everything" IS 'directed' by God--there isn't any 'other' Controller!

 

>Bring the UFO invasion into this equation and you have mass confusion and fear that will underscore the demand for a leader of consequence and power. That leader is the Antichrist.

 

Reply:

 

I was waiting for this! Do not tell us that the UFO's and ETs are Fallen Angels/Demons!

 

>It is quite likely that we will see the culmination of prophecy by the year 2005.

 

Reply:

 

We shall see 'something' by then--however, it will not 'Expire' the way this 'Paper' Implies.

 

>That doesn’t leave us much time to get our priorities straight and prepare for what lies ahead.

 

Reply:

 

Just try to 'get' and 'remain' "Fixed-up" in Krishna Consciousness!

 

>We’ve been given this extra bit of time to get our houses in order, both physically and spiritually. Many events will unfold, one right after the other, that are designed to keep us off guard and send us into the waiting hands of the Antichrist.

 

Reply:

 

That means for the Vast Majority of Humans--the First 'Order' of Business WILL be giving up Flesh Eating.

 

>Elizabeth Conari-Mora, a 19th Century prophet, said, "Countless legions of demons shall overrun the earth…causing terrible calamities and disasters. Nothing on earth will be spared."

 

Reply:

 

Yes--She means Demoniac "Humans"!

 

>Yet these things can be held off as indicated in prophecies from a French nun, Sister Marianne. "As long as public prayers are said, nothing will happen."

 

Reply:

 

That is empowered by the Sankirtan Movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and--the Public Chanting of:

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Actually--this is 'Bringing' the Changes!

 

>Perhaps this is why the Antichrist will close all churches when he takes over.

 

Reply:

 

Shastra and Shrila Prabhupada do say this:

 

"SB 4.14.6 TEXT 6

 

TRANSLATION

 

All the twice-born [brahmanas] were forbidden henceforward to perform any sacrifice, and they were also forbidden to give charity or offer clarified butter. Thus King Vena sounded kettledrums throughout the countryside. In other words, he stopped all kinds of religious rituals.

 

PURPORT by Shrila Prabhupada:

 

"What was committed by King Vena many years ago is at present being carried out by atheistic governments all over the world. The world situation is so tense that at any moment governments may issue declarations to stop religious rituals. Eventually the world situation will become so degraded that it will be impossible for pious men to live on the planet. Therefore sane people should execute Krishna consciousness very seriously, so that they can go back home, back to Godhead, without having to further suffer the miserable conditions predominant in this universe."

 

 

The True 'Authorised' and Comming New World Order--will do NO such thing!

 

Neither will they permit non-sense in the 'Name' of Religion!

 

If the DO then they will not win the Hearts of Everyone--there would be NO 'Order' in the 'New World'.

 

>Church attendance is indeed down all over the world, which is in its way, adding to the materialization of the Antichrist.

 

Reply:

 

Well, that is because it is Kali Yuga and the 'Religious Principles' are under Attack--and the Church go'ers have some 'issues' with their 'diets' that Complicates this for them.

 

>Another event that will coincide with Turban Head’s rise to power is the exile and eventual murder of Pope John Paul II.

 

Reply:

 

Why should 'That' happen?

 

The 'Zealot' Introduction of an 'Evil End Times Pope' is--Calculating and Asuric.

 

Why would the 'next' Pope take leave of the Present "Head" of the Church in His Teachings? [i wonder if Ms. Kathleen is one of the Catholics against the Popes 'views' on Other Faiths] There is NO good reason to say this--more unfounded speculations!

 

>These indicators will reaffirm what prophecy has been saying all along regarding our future. The time is just about here.

 

Reply:

 

Soon I will have to post a 'real' Definitive Discussion on these Misconceptions and Fallacies Which have been Wrenched and Twisted out of Biblical Scripture.

 

[update dec 03: I will Post something to 'follow-up' Soon!

 

>No matter who the Antichrist is, the day is coming when we have to declare for him or for God.

 

Reply:

 

What if the New World Order IS 'Ordered' by God--presenting a move back toward 'Global Varnashram Dharma'?

 

>Starving people tend to make hasty decisions, especially if getting fed is linked with pledging allegiance to the dark side.

 

Reply:

 

As evidenced by the many 'Profits' of the Evil Zealous Missionaries and all the 'Bread Conversions' in India and elsewhere!

 

>So, put aside food now, store water and medicines and be prepared for a whole new ballgame.

 

Reply:

 

Like for the Y2K? Doing that will NOT Save us...

 

 

I will do some Work on a Posting of the Real Facts to us to consider when looking at this Issue--Please Stay Tuned...

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

PS: Edit tags is for needed 'corrections' to wording etc., as I was on my way out when I did this Original Post.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 12-04-2001).]

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

"Expanded Selfishness"

 

73/07/23 London, Bhagavad-gita 1.30

 

Pradyumna (Leads Chanting, etc.):

 

na ca saknomy avasthatum

bhramativa ca me manah

nimittani ca pasyami

viparitani kesava

[bg. 1.30]

 

Translation: "I am unable to stand here any longer. I am forgetting myself, my mind is reeling. I foresee only evil, O killer of the Kesi demon."

 

Prabhupada: So viparitani. Nimittani ca pasyami viparitani kesava. Viparitani means "just the opposite.I have come here to fight to regain my kingdom. That is the cause for which I have come here to fight, but actually I am seeing it is just the opposite. My fighting will be useless. I came here to fight for some useful purpose, but now I see that viparitani, just opposite. It will be useless." Why useless? Because one tries to become rich man, opulent -- this is material nature -- just to show to his relatives, to his friends, to his family members, "Just see how I have become rich, opulent." This is the psychology. A man works very hard day and night to become rich just to make a show that "My dear friends, my dear relatives, you see that how I have become now rich." This is the only purpose. Nobody is working hard for serving Krsna. This is maya. And Krsna consciousness means, the same hardship we shall take, but take for Krsna. Just like our Mrs. Sharma. She was working in the family, but now she has come to work for Krsna. And this is solution. This is mukti. Not that we have to stop our working capacity. Simply we have to change the position. In the family life we work uselessly for so-called relatives, but the same labor, when we employ for the service of Krsna, every inch of it is utilized.

 

There is song by Govinda dasa, sita atapa bata barisana e dina jamini jagi re, biphale sevinu krpana durajana, capala sukha-laba lagi re. He says that sita atapa bata barisana: "I have worked without caring for scorching heat and severe cold." Actually people work so hard. He has to go to office. Suppose there is snowfall. So he cannot stop. He has to go. Or there is scorching heat. You have no experience in your country, scorching heat. But India, 122 degrees. Just imagine, this year. Still they have to go to work. So somewhere it is severe cold and somewhere it is severe scorching heat. This is nature's law. You have to suffer. While you are in cold country, you think that "India is very warm. They are very happy." (laughs) And in India they are thinking, "In England they are very happy." This is the way. This is illusion. Nobody thinks that there is no happiness within these three worlds, beginning from Brahmaloka down to the Patalaloka. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [bg. 8.16]. There is no happiness, even if you go to the Brahmaloka and get the opportunity of living like Brahma, millions of years, and thousand times better standard of life. Still it is not happiness. They do not know it. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam Bg. 13.9. Therefore mad-dhama gatva punar janma na vidyate. Therefore our aim should be only how to go back to home back to Godhead. That should be.

 

So nimittani viparitani. This viparitani, when we are materially conscious, we see that "Without happiness of myself, my family, my society, my country, my community..." They think happiness in terms of expanded selfishness. "First of all, my happiness, personal." Just like a child. It does not think of anyone's happiness. Whatever he takes, he wants to eat. So you, as we grow, we expand our happiness little more: "My happiness, my brother's happiness, my family's happiness, my community's happiness, or my nation's happiness." So you can go on expanding the scope of happiness, but there is no happiness. There is no happiness. These foolish persons, they do not know. So Arjuna also is playing like an ordinary foolish person. Nimittani viparitani. "Where is my happiness? I came here to fight, to get happiness, and I have to kill my own kinsmen. Then where is my happiness? I cannot enjoy the property or the kingdom alone. There must be relatives, brothers. I will be very proud: 'Just see how I have become king.' So if they are dying, then who, whom I shall show my opulence?" This is the psychology. Nimittani ca viparitani pasyami. Just the opposite. This is illusion. This is illusion.

 

There is no happiness actually, expanding selfishness. Just like a national leader like Mahatma Gandhi in our country. He planned that "Let the Britishers go away. My countrymen will be happy. My countrymen will be happy." But when the Britishers went away, giving the responsibility of Indian empire to the Indian people, Gandhi was thinking in the morning, "Oh, I am so unhappy. Now only death will please me." And the next, the same evening, he was killed. He was so unhappy. Because everything was topsy-turvied. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. Now the country was divided. The Muslims became separated. The whole program was changed. There were so many things. He wanted that the government should be very simplified. But he saw that his disciples, his followers, were after office, simply for office. So nimittani. He saw that "I shall be happy, my countrymen will be happy," but at the end he saw viparitani, all opposite. Everyone will experience that. So long he will be materially attached, he will find viparitani. "I wanted to be..." Sukhera lagiya, e ghara bandhinu, agune puriya gela (?): "I constructed this nice house for living happily, but there was fire and everything finished." This is the way. You construct everything for happiness, but there will be something which will put you into the most miserable condition. This is called material world. They do not know. Therefore one who is intelligent, he thinks that "If I have to work so hard for so-called happiness, and here is Krsna is canvassing, asking me, that 'You work for Me,' so why not work for Krsna? Here I see viparitani, everything is opposite. There is no happiness." So that is intelligence. "I have to work hard. Krsna says, 'Just surrender unto Me.' " Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. So Krsna is asking to work for Him, giving up everything. That is clear, everyone knows. "Here also I am working very hard, but here I am working hard to be happy, but the viparitani, I am becoming unhappy. So why not work for Krsna?" This is intelligence. I have to work after all. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsnera dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Constitutionally, every living entity is a servant. He's serving eternal servant of Krsna. If he does not serve Krsna, then he will have to become servant of maya. That's all. His servitude, servantship, will not go. Dhenki svarga gele sva-dharman. (?) Dhenki. Just like a dhenki, you do not understand. The husking machine. Say, a typewriter. So if you send the typewriter to the heaven, what does it mean? It is to be worked as typewriter. Does it mean because it has gone to heaven, the work has changed? No. The work will continue. Either in this hell or heaven, typewriter will kat, kat, kat, kat. That's all. Similarly, our position is servant. If you don't become servant of Krsna, then you serve, you become servant of your wife, your children, your relative, your country, your nation, your dog. At last, if you have no family, then you become servant of your dog. You know in your country it is very usual. If he has nobody, then he keeps a dog, and takes it on the street. His dog passes stool, and he is standing, waiting: "Yes, sir. You pass your stool, I am waiting." Just see. It is practical. If you don't become servant of Krsna, then you have to become servant of the dog. This is nature's way. Therefore intelligent person will take lesson from it, that "I have to become servant. Why not become Krsna's servant? Then I will be happy. There are so many Krsna's servants. They are so happy. Why shall I remain the servant of the maya?" Kamadinam katidha.

 

So we remain servant of maya on account of my sense gratification. That's all. I remain servant of my wife because I want to satisfy my senses. I want to remain servant of my husband because I want sense gratification. Here is the disease. Everyone. Even the servant of the servant or servant of the dog 'Cc. Madhya 13.80'. Because I like it, a pet dog. So actually, instead of becoming master, we become servant. This is the fact. And servant of whom? Kamadinam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. Servant of lust, servants of greediness. Kama, krodha, moha, matsarya. Servant of all these senses. Therefore one who is intelligent... There was a brahmana. He said like this: "My dear Lord Krsna, I am now servant. I have served so much." Kamadinam kati na katidha durnidesah. "I have served them so nicely that I had to execute something which is abominable." If you become servant of somebody, if he says that "You have to do it," your conscience does not allow you to do it. Still, you have to do it. Still, you have to do it. A man is stealing for family. He does not like to steal. Still, he is in need of money; he has to steal. Kamadinam kati na katidha palita durnidesah. This is study, study the psychological condition. When I become servant of maya, even I do not wish to do something which is not very good, still I am obliged to do it. But the result is that nobody is satisfied. The same example. Just like Gandhi served his country so much, so nicely, so voluntarily. Still, the result was he was killed by his countryman. Just see. Result was, the reward was that he served his country so much. It is undoubtedly, nobody can serve so sincerely. Everybody knows. But the result was even a person like Mahatma Gandhi was killed by his countrymen. Just this morning Mrs. Sharma was telling that she has worked so much for the family, but still, the sons and daughters, they want, "No, no, you cannot go. You serve us, serve us. We are not satisfied yet." They will never be satisfied. You serve maya. The maya will never be satisfied. Tesam na karuna jata na trapa nopasanti. (?)

The intelligent man is speaking, "My dear Lord, I have served my senses, lust, anger, greediness, so much so. Still, they are not kind upon me. They are still dictating, still dictating, 'Do this, do this, do this.' Therefore," sampratam labdha buddhi (?), " now I have got intelligence by Your grace." Guru-krsna-krpaya. "By the grace of my spiritual master, by the grace of yourself, I have got this intelligence. Now I have come to You, to serve. Kindly engage me." This is surrender. "I have served my senses, lust, greediness, and other things so faithfully. They are not satisfied. They still want me to serve. They are not going to give me pension. They want still, 'Oh what you have done'? You have to do so many things. So now I am disgusted." This is called vairagya. Vairagya. Jnana-vairagya-yuktaya [sB 1.2.12]. This is required. In human life, this is, this intelligence required, vairagya, not to serve this material world, but to serve Krsna. The Mayavadi philosophers, they simply stop these material activities. Just like Buddha philosophy, nirvana. He simply advises to stop this. But after stopping, what is, sir? "No, zero. Zero." That cannot be. That is not possible. This is their mistake. But the people to whom Buddha philosophy was preached, they are not so intelligent that there can be better service after giving up this service. Therefore Lord Buddha said, "You stop this service. You become happy because ultimately everything is zero." Sunyavadi. Nirvisesavadi.

The Mayavadis, there are two kinds of Mayavadis: the impersonalists and the voidists. They are all Mayavadi. So their philosophy is good so far, because a foolish man cannot understand more than this. A foolish man, if he is informed that there is better life in the spiritual world, to become servant of God, Krsna, they think, "I became servant of this material world. I have suffered so much. Again servant of Krsna? Oh..." They shudder, "Oh, no, no. This is not good. This is not good." As soon as they hear of service, they think of this service, this nonsense service. They cannot think of that there is service, but there is simply ananda. One is still more eager to serve Him, Krsna. That is spiritual world. That they cannot understand. So these nirvisesavadi, impersonalists, they think like that. Just like a diseased man lying on the bed, and if he is informed that "When you will be cured, you will be able to eat nicely, you will be able to walk," he thinks that "Again walking? Again eating?" Because he is accustomed to eat bitter medicine and sagudana, not very palatable, and so many things, passing stool and urine, activities on the bed. So as soon as they inform that "After being cured there is also passing of stool and urine and eating, but that is very palatable," he cannot understand. He says, "It is something like this."

 

 

So the Mayavadi impersonalists, they cannot understand that serving Krsna is simply pleasure and blissful. They cannot understand. Therefore they become impersonalists: "No. The Absolute Truth cannot be person." That is another side of the Buddha philosophy. Impersonal means zero. That is also zero. So Buddhist philosophy, they also make the ultimate goal zero, and these Mayavadis, they also make the ultimate goal... Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum 'SB 7.5.31'. They do not understand that there is life, blissful life, by serving Krsna. Therefore, here Arjuna is playing just like ordinary man. So he says to Krsna, "You wanted me to fight, to become happy, to get the kingdom, but by killing my own men? Oh, nimittani viparitani. You are misleading me." Nimittani ca pasyami viparitani. "I'll not be happy by killing my own men. That is not possible. How You are inducing me?" So he said, nimittani ca viparitani pasyami. "No, no." Na ca saknomy avasthatum: "I cannot stand here. Let me go back. Take my chariot back. I'll not stay here." Na ca saknomy avasthatum bhramativa ca me manah. "I am becoming bewildered. I am puzzled now."

 

So this is the position, material world. We are always in problem, puzzle, and when something better is proposed to the materialistic person, that "You take to Krsna consciousness, you'll be happy," he sees nimittani viparitani, just opposite. "What this Krsna consciousness I shall happy? My family is in trouble or I have got so many problems. What this Krsna consciousness will help me?" Nimittani ca viparitani. This is material condition of life. Therefore it requires time, little time to understand. That is Bhagavad-gita. The same Arjuna, he is now finding, nimittani ca viparitani. When he will understand Bhagavad-gita, he will say, "Yes, Krsna, what You are saying, it is right. It is right." Because after instructing Arjuna, Krsna will ask him, "Now what you want to do?" Because Krsna does not force. Krsna says that "You surrender unto Me." He does not force, that "You must surrender. I am God. You are My part and parcel." No, He'll never say that. Because He has given you little independence, He will not touch it. Otherwise what is the difference between a stone and a living entity? A living entity must have independence, although it is very little, minute. That Krsna does not touch. He'll never touch. You'll have to agree, "Yes, Krsna, I shall surrender unto You. Yes. That is for my benefit." This is Krsna consciousness. You must voluntarily agree, not hackneyed, mechanical. "Spiritual master says like this right. All right let me do it." No. You have to understand very nicely. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [bg. 10.10]. Priti, with love. When you work, when you work for Krsna with love and enthusiasm, that is your Krsna conscious life. If you think that "It is hackneyed, it is troublesome, but what can I do? These people ask me to do it. I have to do it," that is not Krsna consciousness. You have to do it voluntarily and with great pleasure. Then you know. Utsahan niscayad dhairyat tat-tat-karma-pravartanat, sato vrtteh sadhu-sange sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati. You will find in our Upadesamrta (3). Always you should be enthusiastic, utsahat. Dhairyat, with patience. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanat, niscayat. Niscayat means with confidence. "When I am engaged in Krsna's business, Krsna's activities, Krsna will surely take me back to home, back to..." Niscayat. And Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [bg. 18.65]. "I will take you back." It is stated. Krsna is not a liar so we have to work with enthusiasm. Just... Not viparitani. That will be accepted by Arjuna at the end. Krsna will ask him, "My dear Arjuna, what is your now decision?" Arjuna will say, "Yes." Tvat prasadat kesava nasta-mohah: "My all illusion is now gone by Your mercy." Karisye vacanam tava: 'Bg. 18.73' "Now I shall fight. Yes, I shall kill all my kinsmen."

 

That's all. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

 

British man: ...made of a very inferior metal, in fact, in lead. But we couldn't think anything better than having this badge made for you in solid gold, twenty-four carat, and hereby we present it on behalf of the members of the guild to you, our most beloved leader.

 

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. (devotees all shouting Haribol!) So, how it is to be used?

 

British man: Just like this, m'Lord. Has a pin on it.

 

Prabhupada: Oh, I see. Thank you. Hm. Betiye, saheb. Idara chair ne. (Hindi) This is Part One? Betiye. (end)

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Tarun:

gHariji & Donji, I'm no Aryan...

except for my slight connection to PrabhupAd & ZrIdhardev.

If u disagree with Julius, let him know.

His website is posted there.

Some of what Donji wrote is conditioned emotion, insubstantial.

One thing for sure: We're in Kaliyuga.

BhAgavatam 1.1.10 describes Kaliyuga jIvas' predominant qualities.

We're not at all hard to fool. A cinch.

So many so-called 'unsolved' easy to solve assassinations:

JFK, X, MLK, RFK, ACBSP, Lennon...

So many 'unsolved' terrorist acts.

So many witnesses not allowed to testify.

Some know what really happened 9/11. You don't. They do.

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

So what "I" said is "conditioned emotion,(sic) insubstantial"!

 

Could you be a 'Sport' and Explain WHY?

 

Could you also Explain why you would even re-post anti-semite trash? As part of that--please Inform us how THAT was NOT "conditioned emotional and, insubstantial"!

 

I have to ask--why are you so Limited in your Interpretations of Global Administration?

 

Do you possibly think that our World an go on with Regional Imballances in everything from Economy to Political Rule.

 

You KNOW it is Kali Yuga, an Ocean of Faults--[by your own admission]--so how can YOU then be against the something that HAS to Happen (Global Adimistration on a Proper Platform) to 'Check the Certain Advance' of ever increasing "godlessness"--and its reactions.

 

You have given some List of Names--that they were put away somehow by the NWO--well again you do not see that it is the Material Modes of Nature and Karma that "gruel-out" these things.

 

Placing Shrila Prabhupada in that 'List' was--IN VERY POOR TASTE.

 

Where is your Evidence:

 

Within the Framework of some Twisted Over-Complicated 'Conspirocy Theory'!

 

Did you know that 'Theories' are a Waste of Time?

 

If I sound Pompus and Emotional to you it is only a 'Reflecting of what your are Projecting' to the World.....

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-27-2001).]

Originally posted by Tarun:

gHariji & Donji, I'm no Aryan...

except for my slight connection to PrabhupAd & ZrIdhardev.

If u disagree with Julius, let him know.

His website is posted there.

Some of what Donji wrote is conditioned emotion, insubstantial.

One thing for sure: We're in Kaliyuga.

BhAgavatam 1.1.10 describes Kaliyuga jIvas' predominant qualities.

We're not at all hard to fool. A cinch.

So many so-called 'unsolved' easy to solve assassinations:

JFK, X, MLK, RFK, ACBSP, Lennon...

So many 'unsolved' terrorist acts.

So many witnesses not allowed to testify.

Some know what really happened 9/11. You don't. They do.

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

So what "I" said is "conditioned emotion,(sic) insubstantial"!

 

Could you be a 'Sport' and Explain WHY?

 

Could you also Explain why you would even re-post anti-semite trash? As part of that--please Inform us how THAT was NOT "conditioned emotional and, insubstantial"!

 

I have to ask--why are you so Limited in your Interpretations of Global Administration?

 

Do you possibly think that our World an go on with Regional Imballances in everything from Economy to Political Rule.

 

You KNOW it is Kali Yuga, an Ocean of Faults--[by your own admission]--so how can YOU then be against the something that HAS to Happen (Global Adimistration on a Proper Platform) to 'Check the Certain Advance' of ever increasing "godlessness"--and its reactions.

 

You have given some List of Names--that they were put away somehow by the NWO--well again you do not see that it is the Material Modes of Nature and Karma that "gruel-out" these things.

 

Placing Shrila Prabhupada in that 'List' was--IN VERY POOR TASTE.

 

Where is your Evidence:

 

Within the Framework of some Twisted Over-Complicated 'Conspirocy Theory'!

 

Did you know that 'Theories' are a Waste of Time?

 

If I sound Pompus and Emotional to you it is only a 'Reflecting of what your are Projecting' to the World.....

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 11-27-2001).]