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Amara_dasa

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About Amara_dasa

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    Junior Member

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  • Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
  • Interests
    Pure devotional service
  • Occupation
    Krsna-bhakta
  1. Lust and sex are not only material manifestations. There is also spiritual lust and sex. Actually, the material sex we are familiar with in this material world is simply a reflection of the spiritual sex. It could not have any existence otherwise. The spirit soul alone has no sexual desire, but when he is under the control of Maha-maya he experiences material lust, and when he is under the control of Yoga-maya he experiences spiritual lust. This is best explained by Srila Prabhupada in his comments on the Kama-gayatri mantra: "Actually lust and sex are there in spiritual life, but when the spirit soul is embodied in material elements, that spiritual urge is expressed through the material body and is therefore pervertedly reflected. When one actually becomes conversant in the science of Krsna consciousness, he can understand that his material desire for sex is abominable, whereas spiritual sex is desirable." (Teachings of Lord Caitanya, p. 323)
  2. Dear Theist, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaishnavas. I agree with you that we do not need to go back and forth on this! To answer your original question I can refer you to this short quote from H.H. Tripurari Maharaja that pretty much sums up his view on this subject matter: http://www.nine9.ukshells.co.uk/cgi-bin/galva-idx.pl?node=galva-tripurari Wishing you peace and success in Krishna consciousness, Amara dasa
  3. Here are two articles that go deeply into this subject matter: "Please Stop Misusing Quotes From Srila Prabhupada to Discriminate Against Minorities!" http://www.nine9.ukshells.co.uk/cgi-bin/galva-idx.pl?node=galva-quotes "'I Do Not Know Exactly...' Srila Prabhupada's Statements on Homosexuality" http://www.nine9.ukshells.co.uk/cgi-bin/galva-idx.pl?node=galva-sp-know -Amara dasa
  4. Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaishnavas! Thank you for your interest in GALVA. We have been up now for one year, and the site has been very successful. Many gay and lesbian devotees have been encouraged to take up or resume their devotional practices, and many straight devotees have expressed their support and learned about the Vedic concept of a 'third gender,' enabling them to deal with their gay and lesbian godbrothers/sisters in a more realistic and compassionate manner. Of course ideally, there would be no need for a separate GALVA group, but until gays and lesbians are treated equally and kindly by the entire Vaishnava community there will be a need for this type of support group. Originally, we started with one E-group but were so successful so fast that we grew into four separate E-groups to accommodate everyone. This is all due to the compassion and mercy of Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya, both of whom I am always praying to for guidance. I think some of you may be confusing "homosex," the sinful practice among heterosexual males (i.e. prisons, rape, etc., as described in the 3rd Canto of the Bhagavatam) with the natural third gender behavior of "tritiya-prakriti" gays and lesbians. In Vedic culture, people of the third sex were welcomed to all religious ceremonies and would bestow their blessings upon all. This practice is clearly described by Srila Prabhupada and continues even today. It has nothing to do with meat-eating, abortion, divorce, etc. GALVA is not based in Hawaii but is an international organization with most of its members in California, the UK and India. We will continue to be dedicated to the teachings of Lord Caitanya, the importance of all-inclusiveness within His mission, and the Vedic concept of a natural third gender. Jaya Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga! Jaya Sri-Sri Radhe-Syama! Your servant, Amara dasa GALVA 108 http://www.geocities.com/galva108
  5. "Some years back, ISKCON lost one of its senior members, Upendra dasa. He died in Australia from liver failure, resulting from Hepatitis C. He was a gay man. In his early brahmacari days he had the honor of being Srila Prabhupada's servant for a couple of years. And I had the honor of being his close friend from 1975 until his death. Upendraji was always one to speak from the heart. He related to me once something that Srila Prabhupada told him in a private conversation. Upendra was bemoaning his fate as a homosexual in the Hare Krsna movement, and (according to him) Srila Prabhupada---perhaps tired of his endless moaning---advised him to 'just find some nice boy then, and settle down!' This was in a private conversation (not recorded), and some time later Upendra got involved in a futile attempt at marriage with a woman. But he did tell me this antedote, I can vouch for that. And Upendra was, in my experience, an honest and honorable man. Srila Prabhupada was an absolutely sacred memory for him, the most meaningful thing in his entire life, and it's hard for me to imagine he would ever make up something and pass it off as "Prabhupada said... -Adi-karta dasa (Prabhupada disciple) I have also heard this same story from two other sources, the point being, who can really say what Prabhupada would say and do? He surprised us all many times during his life. The subject of our movement's slowness to evolve in certain areas (e.g. attitudes towards women, gay people, etc.) is something that concerns me greatly. The core Vaishnava truths all have to do with the spirit soul, and everything else changes with time. It always has and always will. Srila Prabhupada presented the essential truth and adapted the outward details to a certain degree according to time and circumstance. This has been done by all great acaryas throughout the ages. Had he not passed away several decades ago he might well have instituted other social changes to the movement. Who knows? The world is vastly different (in certain ways) from the world he grew up in. I know one thing: Any religious movement that remains inexorably rooted in some past era becomes extinct. There are many examples. Krsna consciousness must always remain dynamic and adaptable to the times. Let us therefore focus on Srila Prabhupada's essential and timeless spiritual teachings. We should not dwell upon relative social statements that may change with time.
  6. The reason is because Srila Prabhupada was not an expert on homosexuality. One does not approach the spiritual master to learn about ordinary topics. The perfect example is the text you just quoted. At the end of the story, if you read the entire text, the demons are attracted to the woman, therefore they are not homosexual. At most, this story may only apply to ordinary, heterosexual men. Siddhanta must be confirmed by both guru, sadhu and sastra. After exhaustive study, I have yet to find any Vedic verse condemning homosexuality. Even the strict and harsh laws of the Dharma Shastra (Manu-samhita, Manu-smriti, etc.), barely even mention homosexuality. There is only one law discouraging it for brahmanas, and the penalty? You take a ritual bath. That's it. Srila Prabhupada's quotes on social issues are all relative to time and circumstance, as we have previously discussed. There was a very nice example of this recently on CHAKRA concerning women and blacks: "Sudra is to be controlled only. They are never to be given freedom. Just like in America. The blacks were slaves. They were under control. And since you have given them equal rights they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied." (Srila Prabhupada, Room Conversation "Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced," Mayapura 2/14/77 If you focus on Prabhupada's relative social statements and neglect his spiritual teachings, then you will consider the above statement to be the absolute truth. So are we to now advocate a return of black slavery within ISKCON? Was Prabhupada an expert on black history and slavery in America? Ask yourself that. I don't know, maybe some of you think that this is the most "right on" statement you have ever heard. If so, there's really nothing more I can say to you. You will take these types of statements without discretion and use them to hurt others.
  7. Dear prabhus- Here is a very enlivening study that shows how rapidly young people are beginning to accept gays and lesbians, the third sex, as normal members of society. In other words, as Srila Prabhupada used to say himself, "the dogs may bark, but the caravan passes." http://www.hamilton.edu/news/gayissuespoll/
  8. Dear prabhus, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga. We are getting into semantics here, which are very relative and change according to time, place, and understanding. The word "eunuch" is defined nowadays as a "castrated male." (Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language, p. 211.) Formerly, it has been used to describe both "intersexed" and "homosexual" people throughout English translations of Vedic literature, due to a lack of specific English (Christian) words. The term "homosexual," wasn't even coined in English until the late 1800's, because Christian society was afraid and refused to deal with that issue (I am sensing that same feeling now.) They only grudgingly accepted the word over the decades. New words such as "intersexed,gay,transgender," etc., all continue to appear in modern society as science becomes more familiar in their understanding of these third gender groups. Indologists have always been puzzled as to why there were so many words in Sanskrit for the "eunuch" such as "napumsaka,kliba,sandha," etc. In his book on "Homosexuality and Hinduism, p. 48," Arvind Sharma raises the point that "...the limited practise of castration in India raises another significant point for the rest of the discussion, namely, whether rendering a word such as "kliba" as "eunuch" regularly is correct..." And once again I will repeat, the occurrence of (physically) intersexed people, call them asexuals, eunuchs, impotents or whatever, is far too rare for them to have formed their own socieities. This is not even to mention that all these words "eunuchs,napumsaka,sandha" etc., are all used in the Kama Shastra to name those practicing homosexual behavior! The word "napumsaka" literally means in Sanskrit "not male." It is commonly used in Sanskrit texts to describe both neutered (castrated or intersexed) and homosexual people. In astrological texts, "napumsaka" is used to describe any of the five members of society who do not engage in the act of procreation, namely, children, the elderly, the neutered, the celibate and the transgender sex (homosexuals). These groups were protected in Vedic society, along with the second gender (women), the cows and the brahmana class. Also, I have never stated that all "eunuchs" were homosexuals. Some were no doubt also "interesexed" or "asexual." But in all cases, before making general assumptions about this word, one must be careful to take into consideration the context of the story as well as the behavior of the person being described. In regard to dealing with prejudice, I was not referring to Gauracandra prabhu or any of our members specifically. Anyone is free to disagree with others, that happens all the time. But when that disagreement is used to mistreat and demean other people as human beings, that is called prejudice. It happens to gay people all the time in our "modern" society on the physical (violence), verbal (ridicule), social (denying their very existence), ethical (mistreating), legal (denying basic rights), and so-called religious (condemnation) platforms. I am not specifically accusing anyone within this group of being prejudiced, the other readers can judge that for themselves. I have, however, noticed ridicule and social denial on some of the postings, but I suppose that is to be expected. Now I will continue with my japa, which I am very much looking forward to. Hare Krishna! Your servant, Amara dasa
  9. Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaishnavas. I consider all of you as my good friends. I would like to thank Brahma prabhu for addressing this important topic regarding the "third sex." How we treat gay and lesbians is an important social issue that must be addressed openly in our society. My name is Amara dasa, and I am the devotee who wrote the research paper entitled "Tritiya-prakriti: People of the Third Sex." I must say that since I have released this paper the amount of positive feedback I have gotten has been astounding. Many devotees have written to me saying that this project has been long overdue, and that the information in the Vedas referring to gays and lesbians as a third gender was important for others to understand. Of course, the study of gender and sexuality is a material subject, like astrology or ayur-veda, but it should be understood properly through the Vedas so that we do not mistreat other people and make offenses. Many devotees have told me that it has helped them to better understand their gay and lesbian friends or family members, and others have stated that it has completely rejuvenated their spiritual lives and restored their faith in Vedic culture as a welcoming and all-inclusive one. In this sense, I already consider this service to be a great success and well worth the effort. Of course, I do not want to dwell on the bodily platform. The purpose of my research was to help others understand this subject properly and then move on from there in our service to Lord Krishna. Those who are gay will learn that they were not rejected from Vedic society, and others will learn that none of the three genders are to be mistreated, ridiculed or offended. I must admit that much of the information I uncovered was quite surprising and unexpected. The entire issue of "homosexuality" in the Vedic literatures is clearly treated as a third gender, and not as a "crime" or "vice". Gender, in and of itself, does not determine whether a person is either good or bad. No where is this more clear than in the Dharma and Artha Shastras. Other information, such as the acknowledgement of gay marriage, and the example of Maharaja Virata's proper treatment of Arjuna as a transgender male, all reveal a very enlightened and advanced civilization. Of course, our own society has not yet reached this pinnacle of civilized behavior, but we can be enlivened that progress is gradually being made. In the course of my writing, I spent the entire year praying to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya for guidance. If this paper has helped to encourage even a few people in their spiritual lives, and assisted others to avoid committing offense, then I already consider the work to be a great success. As a further sign, I have received several requests to have this paper published. It should be out sometime next year in a book concerning innovative thought in South Asian studies. Once again, I thank all of you for your encouragement. Hare Krishna! Yours in the service of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga, Amara dasa
  10. No, that's alright, I am not hurt. I have been putting up with this type of prejudice all my life! By nature I am a very positive-oriented person, so with this group I am learning that I just have to overlook and not read the negative postings. I really enjoyed reading Brahma's comments, especially on his last letter. I thought they were very well-written and according to shastra, point by point. His positive response is typical of most of the replies I have gotten on my paper so far. I also really appreciated the letter written to Bhakta Albert by His Holiness Tripurari Swami. In that letter, Tripuari prabhu states, "...in general my opinion regarding gay and lesbian devotees is that they should be honored in terms of their devotion and spiritual progress. They should cultivate spiritual life from either a celibate status, or in something analagous to a heterosexual monogamous situation. Gay and lesbian people have always been a part of society from Vedic times to our post modern times. They should be accepted for what they are in terms of their sexual orientation and encouraged like everyone else to pursue spiritual life." P.S. - This is not the ISKCON guru (obviously) who Bhakta Mark was referring to and who was being ridiculed on earlier postings. Hare Krishna! Amara dasa
  11. Dear prabhus, So, if you do not accept the Kama Shastras, do you accept the Dharma and Artha Shastras? "Tritiya-prakriti" is mentioned in the Mahabharata, do you accept that? Also the figure 5% is based on a study from the American Psychiatric Association. Do you not accept that as well? My point is that all my references have been based on authoritative texts, and when they contradict your opinions, you cancel them out as not bonafide. On the other hand, many of you are posting your own opinions, which sound very bigoted and condescending, without any references whatsoever. I suppose people will just believe whatever they want to believe, but be forewarned, these opinions are hurting others and are not pleasing to Krishna. Some people use their opinions and quotes to put down women, blacks, Asians, gays, etc., but I would urge you to reconsider your views and thus avoid that ugly path. Also, Gaurachandra... are you the devotee I know from Hawaii, or are you someone else? Haribol! Your servant and friend, Amara dasa
  12. Dear friends, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaishnavas! Certainly the word "nartaka" can refer to any dancer, but as a specific class they are documented in all texts as members of the sudra class, as transgendered (homosexual) and they still exist even today. This is not even debatable, you can go to India right now and talk with these people, or you can read the book "The Hijra Class: The Eunuchs of India." These dancers are considered to be both male and female. A few of them are physically male and female (intersexed), but the vast majority are homosexual. This class of "nartaka" dancers is nicely described by Srila Prabhupada in a conversation on tape #67-002 recorded in San Francisco, although he himself admits in the talk that he does not know the exact nature of these people. Another point is that "eunuch" is just an old-fashioned word for homosexual. (Did you guys actually read the paper or not?) The behavior of the "eunuchs" is described in full detail within the eighth and ninth chapters of the second part of the Kama Shastra, and it is purely homosexual. To deny this would mean you would have to deny the entire text, and then I would beg to ask where are you going to get your own references from as to the "actual" sexual nature of the "eunuchs?" Why not accept the ancient texts and the "eunuchs" themselves? Do you understand their own nature better than them? The combination of the male and female natures occurs to varying degrees, but on the physical platform (intersexed) it is extremely rare and occurs in about 0.02% of the population, or one out of every 20,000 births. Even then, a disproportionate number of these intersexed persons exhibit "homosexual" behavior. (www.isna.org, the Intersex Society of North America). This hardly would have made up a social class in ancient India. Homosexuality, on the other hand, occurs much more commonly, which most estimates place at about 5% of the population, or one out of every twenty people, and these people make up the majority of what is known in the Vedas as "tritiya-prakriti: people of the third sex." We should not try to deny their existence, or pretend that they are all simply "asexual," because that isn't going to address the issue or solve anything. Hoping this letter greets you all in good Krishna consciousness. Gaura premanande! -Amara dasa
  13. Dear Atma- Please accept my humble obeisances. Thank you for the nice reply. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with the "hijra" class of India. The whole point is that people should be seen according to their personal qualities and not on the basis of their gender. Just as there are both good and bad men and women, similarly, there are both good and bad people of the third gender. We should not take one bad example of any gender and impose that upon the entire group. The quotes that you mentioned can be found in the Caitanya-caritamrta (1.13.106, verse and purport), and the "nartaka" transgender dancers are also mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.11.20-22) concerning Lord Krishna's entrance into Dvaraka. It is very interesting how kindly Lord Krishna welcomed all of these groups, including the prostitutes. Concerning GALVA, perhaps you may understand it better in this way. As a woman, have you ever been in a situation where you only lived and associated with men? If so, you will know how much you missed and appreciated the association of other women when they arrived. They same is true for gays and lesbians, who often feel isolated and dejected from heterosexual society, especially within a minority spiritual group. I do not think it would be psychologically healthy for you to never be able to associate with other women. Even though this is on the bodily platform, it is an issue that has to be addressed. I know for myself I have felt great relief and support by connecting with other gay Vaishnavas all over the world through GALVA. This is true even though I am treated nicely at the temple and have many close heterosexual Vaishnava friends. I hope this greets you in good spirits. Haribol! -Amara
  14. Yes, prabhuji, that was me. I was the head pujari in New Navadvipa for several years. I still continue to serve Their Lordships Sri Panca-tattva as much as I can. I'm glad you had a good experience at our temple, although I can't remember you specifically. Did you go by another name at the time? By the way, our Honolulu Ratha-yatra this year will be held on September 15th. Haribol! -Amara
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