WyattEarp
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Let's not forget Oolong, the Pancake Bunny. <html><img src=http://www.syberpunk.com/images/oolong/dorayakismall.jpg></html>
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Thankyou for the feedback on this. It's been a few years since I was using flax. I know that when I eat cottage cheese on it's own, without flax, I don't feel any side effects. But I do remember when I mixed the cottage cheese with the flax oil, that I would add salt, black pepper, hing. Also wheat germ, sunflower seeds (soaked overnight), and chopped up tomatoes. I wonder if the tomatoes might have been a rasa-bhasa with the flax oil. Or maybe I was using too many spices. The link I gave above suggested using the cottage cheese/flax treatment with fruit. Dr. Budwig's treatment has me intrigued. Her group, or a similar group, is claiming a 95% success rate with cancer and tumors. Hard to believe, and I have my doubts. But, you never know. The testimonials in the above link were impressive, if true, and I did not detect any agenda (buy *our* products, etc), other than to use flax oil in our diets. Also, it is important to use flax oil that has not been setting out at room temperature or past it's expiration date. It may very well be that I had bought some flax oil, then used it off and on, then it expired, and when I used it again, I may have experienced some high blood pressure type of symptoms due to that. Can't say for sure. Or maybe I just used too much. I will have to try the flax again and experiment with it. Oh, one other ingredient I was using: flax seeds, soaked overnight. So, maybe it was an overkill I was doing, flax oil plus flaxseeds. I think I also used some liquid lecithin at times as well, so that might have had something to do with it. Sorry to ramble on, but in hindsight, I'm pretty sure it must have been something else that raised my blood pressure. I'm sure that flax oil is quite safe. Anyway, thankyou again for the feedback. Oh, and as far as getting too much calcium from the cottage cheese, that is possible, but I think the formula for the cancer treatment was something like 3 to 6 tbs per half cup of cottage cheese, which isn't a whole lot. Not sure how much calcium is in 4 oz of cottage cheese. They did say you could use yoghurt instead, but you'd have to use 3 times as much as the cottage cheese. There has to be a natural cure for cancer somewhere. The mainstream medical community (cut/poison/burn) route won't recognize natural cures, but I think they're out there. Wyatt
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http://www.beckwithfamily.com/Flax1.html I have known about flaxseed oil for maybe 8 years or so. I first learned about it as a cancer-fighting agent. It was recommended that the flaxseed oil be combined with cottage cheese or yoghurt, as that enhances the effect somehow (not sure how, though.) I would make salads with cottage cheese mixed with flax oil, and add some sprouted sunflower seeds and tomatoes. It gave me a feeling of well-being, although at times I felt that it raised my blood-pressure. Seems my heart would beat faster. Then I stopped, and my blood pressure was normal again. Anyway, there are several books and articles written about this cure: flax + cottage cheese, for fighting cancer and tumors. I believe someone named Budwig was the one who discovered it. An excerpt: Doctors had attempted to treat patients with sources of Omega 3 but had not been consistently successful. Dr. Budwig's research found that in order for these fatty acids to be fully available to the body, they must be tied to a sulfur based protein; the best source of which is cottage cheese. Depending on the severity of the condition she had her patients use 3 to 6 Tbsps. of Flaxseed oil a day, with at least 4 oz or 1/2 cup of cottage cheese per day.
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This seems to be directed towards me, I guess, which is fine. I feel like I've learned a lot from this discussion (or dispute or argument or a combination thereof.) I've thanked Theist for sharing his views and reminding us of the urgent need for cow protection. I'm also aware of the abuses which have happened at some places. Not sure what the solution is, except like you said, we should execute Krsna Consciousness intelligently. That implies that each interlocutor thinks that he or she has the truth. I suppose we all have that tendency to some degree. I know a few of us, including myself, have said that this issue isn't all black and white. Others have disagreed with this notion. I'm all for service for the cows, no disagreement there. If you have any suggestions you may wish to share on how to execute cow protection, having learned from the mistakes and abuses from the past, I'm sure we could use your input. You seem to be more of a brahminical type than myself, I'm more a sudra-type, so we need some sane/sage advice. Perhaps there are already some intelligent programs in place which you might endorse, in which case those of us not directly involved with cow protection could contribute via donations. How did you feel about Hare Krsna dasi's articles, did she have the right idea towards protecting the cow? How about Paramadvaiti Maharaja's article? Or the Mother Cow program (affiliated with Narasingha Maharaja in India.) These are devotees who are quite senior to me and possess more knowledge about the issue. What they say makes sense to me, but I am open to other ideas. Thanks. Wyatt
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I'm no expert on developing sincerity, so I should probably just remain silent. However, I got to thinking, (perhaps for my own benefit moreso than yours), and in my own feeble attempts at becoming sincere, I've had the most success when I was able to spend a good deal of time reading books from the Acaryas, as well as prayers from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Narottama das Thakur. Bhaktivinode's Saranagati contains some of the most beautiful prayers ever written. These prayers are written for our benefit. Sometimes he prays to his Gurudeva, sometimes he prays directly to Krsna. I've noticed that whenever I take the time to read and pray before I chant, I feel so much more enlivened. Ultimately, the more devotional activities we engage in, the more enthusiastic and sincere we become. The example is there of an iron rod, if we stick it in the fire, it will take on the qualities of fire. In the same way, if we wish to become Krsna-ized, we will want to associate with Krsna through his devotees, the maha-mantra, observing Ekadasis and holy days, offering prayers, offering service, and so on. Wyatt
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Sincerity (IMO) means to pay the price. If our goal is to become Krsna Conscious, then we should be willing to do whatever it takes. (Under proper guidance, not by whim.) For most, the bare minimum in expressing our sincerity is to chant 16 rounds and follow 4 regulative principles. True, there are devotees who have done this and then after some time, have fallen. This is because they either 1) committed serious offenses while chanting or 2) performed these minimal guidelines in a mechanical fashion. Since spiritual life is dynamic by nature, we are either moving forward, or sliding backward. Of course, we have to make a start somewhere, hence it may seem mechanical at the very beginning. But the aspirant needs to always keep the goal in mind, and be enthusiastic to achieve that goal. Simultaneously, he needs to know that he has declared war on Maya, and must be aware that Maya will set so many traps for us, just like land-mines, and we must tread very carefully. That is why it is stated that the path of Krsna Consiousness is like a razor's edge. If we are sincere, our taste for all things Krsna will grow (His name, pastimes, service, etc), and simultaneously, our taste for mundane enjoyment will decrease. In other words, we should frequently analyze ourselves to insure that we are making progress, and not just stagnating due to mechanically following. Krsna doesn't want machines who mindlessly repeat His name, He wants our hearts. Wyatt
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"6) And much dedicated manpower either works under unreasonable amounts of stress or gives up due to the unreasonable demands on them by a devotee community that is not educated as to what proper cow protection means and entails." I can attest to this via personal experience, as I spent some time in New Talavan, milking cows, digging ditches, baling hay, lots of strenuous work, and we would begin work fairly early in the morning and work til dark, (no Gita class.) I remember thinking, "where is the simple living/high thinking?" There was no time to read scripture. Even during Bhagavatam class, the TP had us making jewelry to help bring in money to support the farm. Anyway, Kamra dasi makes excellent points, as does Hare Krsna dasi. The bottom line is, many farm communities have been started since the 70's, and most have failed, at least in regards to proper cow protection. Not due to insincerity, but perhaps due to inexperience and mismanagement, which, in fairness to the managers involved, was not due to lack of effort or enthusiasm. I had stated earlier that "trial and error" may be one of the ways we learn. This is natural, we learn by our mistakes. So we regroup and try, try again. I thank Theist for helping us to become more aware of these issues. I am happy that others have already raised and addressed the concerns which Theist has pointed out. But like gHari said, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It seems we're headed in the right direction. But Vijay's points are well-taken: many Temples have lost so much manpower, even to the point where they have to import devotees from poor countries to help keep the Temples functioning. The core activities of chanting, Bhagavatam class, Deity worship, book distribution, preaching all must be there as well. Hare Krsna dasi said we can also help with cow protection outside of Iskcon. Anyone who is protecting cows and bulls should be supported and it is up to us to investigate the various cow protection programs and see who has the right idea as well as practical chance for success. (Knowing that the average lifetime of a cow is 20 years, and we may wish not to support "fly-by-night" cow-protection programs which will last only a few years, with huge turnover in personnel.) Wyatt
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"Just immediately stop taking milk from cows doomed for slaughter and put a b-12 tablet under your tonque occasionally." Vitamin B12 is not the issue here, as much as you would like to reduce it to that. More great quotes and articles, Vijay, thankyou.
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"I wouldn't care of the nectar of immortality was in a jug of commercial bloodmilk I would let the devas and demons fight over it." That makes no sense. Address the points, please.
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"So the description of it cannot be mention in the bhagavatam but the actual practice can be perpetually practiced in the temples?" This is a perfect example of someone who cannot or who will not make even the slightest attempt at reconciling an apparent contradiction. Win the argument at all costs. "I would like to see that picked up again but for myself I am trying to disengage as this protion of the topic has run its course for now." I once thought we were dancing in circles. You said no. I now agree. You are playing dodge ball. You are simply trying to win an argument, at all costs. The rest of us are trying our best to be thoughtful and introspective. You don't see it (or maybe you do), but you continue to avoid the issues. As Vijay said, either you are arrogant, or you are self-realized. Which is it, young man? "I would like to see that picked up again but for myself I am trying to disengage as this protion of the topic has run its course for now." If I were going to attack a group of people and start calling them hypocrites, I would, at the very beginning, clarify that I am myself the greatest hypocrite. You have chosen not to do this. Yet some praise you for your "humility". Amazing. You say not to imitate, yet you pose as if you were the final authority on the matter. This is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy 101. If I were going to advise someone, and call him a hypocrite, I would at least qualify/couch my presentation that I am the greatest hypocrite. Yet you have not done this. You have come out shooting from the hip, something which even Wyatt Earp himself never did. All of your "perceived" opponents have praised you for your dedication in your chosen path. On the other hand, you have continued, nonstop, to vilify those who follow Srila Prabhupada. Your attacks indicate, despite your last-minute protests, that you are attacking Srila Prabhupada. Do you understand the nature of prasad? If Krsna accepts our offering, then the prasad is meant to be honored. Honoring prasad is NOT imititation, as you blindly suggest. As far as imtitation goes, we don't imitate Lord Siva by partaking of ganja. We don't imitate Lord Krsna by dancing with hundreds of damsels. Srila Prabhupada, however, never said a word about "imitating" him in regards to partaking of milk products. He glorified milk, advised that we should partake of milk offerings, and never said a word about boycotting commercial milk. I would venture to say that boycotting prasad would be offensive. You have stated that you are allergic to milk. No problem. It appears that you will boycott milk no matter what is said. AS far as health reasons which you listed, this differs from what Srila Prabhupad has stated, how milk helps us in so many ways, providing vitamins, protein, helping the nerves (got a nervous problem there, bro?) and so many other things. You've given us something to think about, we all admit that. But if push comes to shove, devotees will accept Srila Prabhupada's words as absolute, not yours. Wyatt
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I'm just an old-fashioned milk and potatoes man myself. And, after reading Srila Prabhupada's words, I hope to stay that way. I'm closing down the Long-Branch saloon. Beer vs Milk? No contest. Thanks, Vijay for the convincing quotes. Wyatt
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I also agree 100% with what gHari said. It's one thing that we (milk drinkers/offerers) are being called hypocrites. But when we're being accused of knowingly and willingly committing suicide for using commercial milk, then those are very strong words. I know myself and Vijay have said it's not a black and white issue, and gHari said pretty much the same, "the truth is not cut and dry", and that on such matters, we need to consult with Guru, Sastra, and Sadhu to find out the truth.
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Gauracandra understands this thing perfectly. In that case, we are making progress in trying to understand one another. Gaurachandra's analogy that we've been "kicking the can further down the road" is a good one, and I agree. He made a practical proposal about how Temples could purchase commercial milk, wholesale, then sell it to devotees in order to make a profit, and then use those profits for financing ahimsa dairies, beginning in Alachua. He said it may take time, 5 or 6 years (per region), which seems realistic. But you feel that his idea does not solve the problems far enough, fast enough. This has been my point all along, that we work towards establishing ahimsa dairies, but in the meantime, we continue to use commercial milk during the transition period. I think this is what Gaurachandra prabhu is saying (correct me if I'm wrong.) Since you say that Gaurachandra prabhu understands this perfectly, yet his proposal is to continue using commercial milk until we have the goshallas and ahimsa dairies firmly in place, this leads me to believe that perhaps some of us haven't been wording our statements so as to be properly understood. But at least we are now making progress. Yes, I think we should stop kicking that ol' can down the road. Surely there are some intelligent minds who have the leadership skills to do what it takes to get this massive cow-protection program underway, in full-swing, not just in small, scattered, isolated places. Thankyou Gaurachandra prabhu for putting in words what I was unable to express. Wyatt
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http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index_reset.asp?pid=2940942654211388 Wanna take a quiz to see how you compare, ecologically, with your fellow earthlings? One footprint=one or more acres. I found this quiz on a Duke University Bulletin board, although they didn't invent it. Most of the Duke participants who took this quiz had rather large "footprints" which revealed that if everyone lived like them, we would require 5, 6, or 7 *planets* to accomodate everyone's wants and needs on this particular planet. It's not a perfect quiz, but it does give a rough estimate demonstrating how materialism and greed can create a huge ecological strain on Mother Earth. The average size footprint of those who took this quiz is 24, which corresponds with how many acres each individual requires to survive. I scored a 12, which is below the national average. Still, if everyone lived like me, we would need 2.8 planets to accomodate everyone's needs. So, I still have a long way to go towards simplifying my life. I suspect that most devotees' scores will be much lower. This quiz consists of 15 questions, at which time your "footprint" (the number of acres you require for your daily needs) will be determined, along with the number of planets required, if everyone shared your footprint size. Wyatt
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It's been a fun chat, Theist. I've been at work writing these posts, still am. But I think I need to take a nap now. My boss isn't here, so I guess I have that luxury, (if you want to call it that.) Not the greatest way to spend Christmas Eve, but it's helped pass the time. By the way, as for myself, I rarely use milk anymore since I started reading, over a year ago, about how the milk cows are treated. I do try to get organic milk if I need milk, but even that is not ideal, since it doesn't address the issue of the bulls who get slaughtered. But I do believe that Krsna accepts milk if offered with love. The proof is in the pudding. When one honors prasad, even made from commercial milk, one can feel the potency and the purifciation. This would not happen unless Krsna accepted the offering. So, in my discussions with you, I am referring more in regards to cooks and pujaris at the Temples, who are serving under the guidance of their Acarya. Or householders such as Bhabru prabhu who have Deities Who love their milk products. If his Deities love their milk offerings, then it would seem that They are accepting them, and the food is transformed into prasad, which purifies all parties involved. As Vijay pointed out with a quote from Srila Prabhuada, even machines made by non-devotees can be used in Krsna's service, and the men who make those machines receive some benefit. Prasad is powerful. More than we can imagine. As horrific as non-ahimsa milk is, I believe that maha prasad (made from milk) outweighs the horrors of Kali Yuga and benefits one and all. It is that powerful. My feeble words cannot do proper justice to the unlimted, all-merciful nature of maha-prasad. Wyatt