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Soma Juice

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Posts posted by Soma Juice


  1. "A physicist, a mathematician, and a mystic were asked to name the greatest invention of all time. The physicist chose the fire, which gave humanity the power over matter. The mathematician chose the alphabet, which gave humanity power over symbols. The mystic chose the thermos bottle.

    "Why a thermos bottle?" the others asked.

    "Because the thermos keeps hot liquids hot in winter and cold liquids cold in summer."

    "Yes - so what?"

    "Think about it." said the mystic reverently. That little bottle - how does it *know*?""


  2.  

    Soma-ji... it is a lot more complex than that. I have studied shamanic practices and they have many, many layers.

     

    Most halucinogenic plants lead our consciousness towards the lower worlds, some (especially those from the Solanacea family) leading into the lowest stratas of the Universe, with great risk of death or separation from the physical body of the shaman. Soma was different... it lead to the higher worlds.

     

    The telepathic abilities are the effect of being able to read the akhas (ether) which stores the image of every thought, every feeling, and every physical act that took place, is taking place, or is contemplated to take place. Even many evil spirits can read akhas.

     

    The yogis achieved the shamanic trance through meditation. Shivaite masters sometimes communicate with their Naaga guides using ganja, but these are still lower worlds. They may have great powers but it is not quite the spirituality of our Vaishnava tradition.

     

    i see! very very interresting! im just a seeker my self trying to solve the puzzle! and i apreciate this forum and the wise folk who inhabit it very much! :)

     

    I would really like to learn about the things you speak where can i find information?


  3.  

    my meaning in saying 'higher levels of conciousness' is actually 'highest level of conciousness' . yes , shamans do have higher conciousness levels than an ordinary human which is self evident through their psychic powers . but remember that telepathy or healing has nothing to do with spirituality and neither is a denoter of 'highest levels' . on the 'highest levels' such things become idiotic to a true spiritual aspirant .

     

     

    okay.. the only point i want to make is that these plants indeed can be used for spiritual purposes just like chant, kirtan and meditation.

     

     

    although its true that a spiritual person might aqquire some psychic powers while his sadhana . its also true that some spiritual disciplines like the vamamarga of tantra have well defined rituals of attaining this highest state through the use of intoxicants. and there have been real good spiritually advanced persons in such paths also . but the principle target of these sadhaks were always attaining the supreme not healing , prophesising or similar paranormal powers .

    [/qoute]

    no i agree, the purpuse is allways attaining the highest state all im saying is that the telepathy and healing is a proof that they somehow have attained some kind of enlightenment.

     

     

    Who can really say that with proof?

    why would it devalue it and rank it with other primitive religions? do i hear a contempt for these religions why is it negative? why would it devalue it if it startet as somekind of shamanic religion... why would it even matter? the important issue is what it evolved into!

    The very very first signs of vedic religion had to spring from religions from before india was a civilzation and that pretty much means shamanism in some form.

    As i see it shamanism was the first religion of the world, if you look at isolated tribes you will find many similarities all over the world

    African, American, Asian, Australian, European poeple have all in some time of their history had shamanistic religions and the poeple who have succeded in living in isolation still have! undependent on what part of the earth they are from.

     

     

     

    no no no not at all, all im saying is that soma obviously played a roll in the establishment of the culture, the culture evovled greatly and through all the beautifull traditions that now are so strong we have great spiritual knowledge!

    I am neither saying that everything couldnt have been without the soma!

     

     

    Then please define to me what you see as a spiritual experience.

    For me a spiritual is simply contact in any form with the never changing!

     

     

    The search of inner peace and the fail of materialistic culture was the root and the factor that created the hippie movement of the 60'ies and 70'ies

    and it was also the reasons many people broke with conventional ways and took LSD! and through the mass distrubtion many experienced something greater than them self which eventually triggered a spiritual quest like you see it with Ram Dass and Bhagavan Das

     

     

     

    is taken from this article

    www maps org/news-letters/v11n2/11243pal html


  4.  

    i think linking hallucinogenic experiences with high levels of conciousness would make the entire spiritual tradition of india shallow and meaningless.

     

    while there is no denying that hallucinogenic substances and other occult practices gave rise to or was intertwined with numerous primitive religions , that was not the case with vedic cultures. there might be clear references regaurding their widespread use but it was seperate from the spiritual depths reached by the vedic seers . vedic religion is definately not a typical primitive religion as prevailing at other parts of the world at that time .

     

    hallucinogenic substances actually obscures our consciousness giving rise to odd external symptoms . but spiritual realization cleanses our consiousness but often have similar external symptoms . numerous sadhaks were unable to walk properly out of deep god intoxication . in all such cases the apparent external symptoms would be same as of a liqour intoxicated man. seeing this it is all very natural for any western observer to draw such wierd parrellels between the two. the might look similar but poles apart actually.

    Why would make the tradition shallow? it is a fact that shamans wo uses these plants indeed have reached some of the same levels of counciousness as vedic enlighted masters, if you read the story about Maria Sabina it clearly proves my case she has great telephatic abilities and healing powers something that shows her high level of counciousness.

    If the psychedelic experience was hollow how can it lead to such powers?

    I also think the vedic seers made the deepest plunge into god. But remember there are many ways to god some takes you longer than other but they are all ways to god.

    No vedic religion is not a "primitive" religion but that still dont proves it didnt have shamanistic roots and rig-veda IMO proves that the vedic religion actually had plant use an essential part of it. The vedic religion could be build on shamanism and then through time refined into the great spiritual thruth the long tradition holds.

    These soma rituals and the secret knowledge of how to find and make the soma formed the priest-caste who then made the basis for the organized vedic religion who produced so many seers and great spirituality.

     

    I think the psychedelic experience can be described as a forced and very invasive spiritual experience and not like meditation who trains your counciouness and diciplines your counciousness, that is also why many shamans spend years in isolation just like we see in india to achieve an unclutched mind and make them possible to receive information through these plants and it is also why if your ego is in the way the information received will be flawed and even dangerous and can even lead to insanity.

     

    Thats why it can seems like a delusion but, but eventhough you think it is a delusion the very special way it affect our counciousness has not been studied due to the taboos of the western world to the extent it is worthy.

     

    The great spiritual deepth the rig-veda speaks of shows that it holds great the soma ritual hold great truth. A sign of the psychdelic experiences potiential can also be seen in the way these substances has made many people take up the spiritual path. Look at known figures in the west like Bhagavan Das and Ram Dass who both startet their spiritual journey with psychedelics.

    Look at the great rise in interest in Buddhism and Vedic religions after LSD was released.

     

    ***Moderator Is there some way i can edit my thread the last link dont work and there are some spelling mistakes :P


  5.  

    With due respect to all,

    It is highly probable that the intoxicating Rig-vedic (and Persian Avesta too) Soma was Cannabis or some such other psychedelic source. Makes sense, as "hallucinogens do not merely amplify familiar states of mind, but rather induce experiences that are qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness" says Wikipedia. Obviously we tend to give these hallucinations a religious angle and interpret them as advanced states of the mind.

    And if the Soma was indeed Cannabis, then there need be no concern about having lost it. It is alive and well and continues to give people "elevated" experiences to this day.

    3500 years ago, with no electricity, tourism, etc., Rig-vedic people had very few options to escape boredom and the Soma being one of them, would have been highly revered.

    Cheers

    many evidences from the rig veda and from research says it is not cannabis at least not alone, the soma plant was pressed and and a milky substance was extractet. It would be a very not effecient way to coonsume cannabis.

    It is kind of stupid saying what the rig-vedic people did was out of boredom. Do you think poeple dont have anything to do with out electricity and tourism? and if you study the rig-veda you will see the great spiritual value the plant is praised for


  6. The mystery of the soma plant is a subject that intrigues me much. The exact identifaction has never been found, but i think it is safe to say that it had great spiritual value in its intoxicating effect.

    But the plant symbiosis has been long lost and the soma rituals are gone.

    This kind of saddens me because i belive we can learn alot from these sacred plants if restore the link between us and them, a link that has brought great spirituality to mankind.

    The interesting is that cermonies with religious use of hallucinogenic plants is seen all over the world.

    South America have widespread use of many diffrent plants, north american indians uses the mescaline containing cacti peyote, traces of plant use have been found allmost all over the world but the tradition is sadly weakened alot worldwide by the invasion of western culture and what that brings with it.

    We can conclude that plants have been used for a tool to communicate with the spirit world/higher levels of counciousness with great succes. And many lines can be drawn between the level of counciousness the shamans who ingest these reach and the levels great saints and enlightned masters have reached, the shamans of the amazon rainforest is is thought by the old shamans knowledge of the plants and the spirits of the forest, they shamans have powers like telepathy and healing powers as it is also seen among our hindu saints.

     

    The link below contains the story of a psylocibin mushrooms cermony with the great shaman Maria Sabina.

    www csp org/nicholas/A27.html

    And it seems like the early vedic religion also thought these types of plants might have played an important role in shaping the vedic tradition, but due to unkown factors and the strict secrecy the soma plant was treatet with the knowledge is lost in india.

     

    But do you accept plant use a way to evovle spiritualy? do you think that intoxication is a valid form of worship?

     

    This zen preist have some interesting stuff to say on the subject:

    www maps org/news-letter/v11n2/11243pal.html


  7. The fun thing is you ask many of the same questions i did kaisersose, when i was a atheist.

    My view has changed not because i somehow interlectually understood the way of the world or the meaning of existince but I have trough experience of god on my own body washed every last doubht away.

    I would just hope you give the buddhist or vedic understading of suffering

    a chance. Just like buddha the nature of suffering will be revealed to you.

    To understand the concepts from the scriptures and masters you must experience them by meditation, not many poeple reach to a understanding by interlect paradoxes the human mind makes like how can suffering be in this world etc. when it is not a paradox when you get a deeper understanding.

     

    just my 2 cents or what ever you say in english hehe


  8.  

    In contrast, evolutionists view life as all descending from a single common ancestor by chance processes.

     

    I my self belive in the theory of evolution, im not saying it is complete in any way, nothing is, and especialy not science, but saying that evolutionist think that life is just chance has nothing to do with the theory. He actualy implies that all evolutionist is in fact just nihilists,he kind of sneaky puts it in our shoes.

     

     

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