imranhasan

You had actually stated in one of your earlier responses that there could be many many reasons unknown to man. That was the only reason why I felt the reason should not be a dervied or a deduced one, but a stated one. Ok. I understand now that the reason is derived and deduced from the circumstances surrounding each instance of incarnation, not one stated in the scripture. Yes. I would say it is possible.

Thank you, brother Avinash Is this what the scripture says? Can you please help me see the words too? Yes. Yes. If man is to be held responsible for the way he lives his life, then a Merciful God would surely guide Him, in some way. May be human intelligence and conscience is that guidance (or at least the first step in it).

"Generally" was with reference to our perspective, not from God's. What God does or decides to do in some other world or universe, I can neither find out nor verify and am not even concerned with, till the time that someone makes me understand that it relates to me in some way. Yes. I do believe that white bears exist. There is a complete consensus of all the sources of information that there is one. I can witness it, if I am willing to take the pain of going to the right place. My respected brother, I am sorry if that is the impression I have given you. Defeating or winning was never in my mind. Learning was my only target. I win, if I learn. You are welcome to take all the other prizes. Impressive answer. I will just like to add one small condition to it, on the basis of my faulty knowledge: "Yes. He can make a stone He cannot lift, if that is what His absolute wisdom and absolute knowledge require... Then He will lift it, if it is required by His absolute wisdom and absolute knowledge" As I understand it, God is not just omnipotent. He is omniscient and wise at the same time.

My dear brother, Avinash, My brother, it really seems that I have been unable to put my point accross. I will try to restate the issue, as soon as I can find an alternative way of doing so. For the time being, can you please let me know if you agree with the fact that generally, God does not make an appearance and controls everything without having to do so. This, "generally", is so general that it may safely be stated that one-hundred percent of the people treading this earth today have not seen God. If it is so, can you please tell me what the Hindu scrptures say about this witholding of appearance of God? Why is it so that God is not always in appearance in the world, generally? My dear brother, because it seems that we are at a kind of dead-end here, I request you to grant me the liberty to request you to please free your mind of the issue of incarnation for a while and please allow me to know your opinion on the following: Do you not believe that God has the power to do everything? If God has the power to do everythiing, does this necessitate the belief that God actually did everythiing? Do you not believe that God has the power to bring the sun out from the western side or our hemisphere? Just because he has this power, would you be willing to believe anyone telling you that he did?

Please accept my and most sincere gratitude for your kindest offer and guidance. Please also allow me to be able to post my questions on the text that I read here, in the hope that you will grant this student your continued personal attention. I am not saying that you are more knowledgeable that all else on the forum, for I am not even in a position to judge that. But I do request you to contribute your time to answer my questions, as I find your answers to be more precise and understandable to my untrained mind. Thank you very much for your understanding and appreciation. I will not hold anything back, if I have to ask. Thank you very much, indeed.

Very good point, brother Avinash. However, very respectfully, my brother. It is quite one thing to say that God allows evil to exist, within the scope of the overall plan and purpose for which life was created and it is quite another to allow evil to reach a level where the overall plan and purpose is so hindred that God has to make a personal appearance to stop it.

Brother Avinash, please excuse me but this seems to be a somewhat circular argument. Obviously, first God allows the king to get the exceptional powers and then makes an exception to make an appearance. Thank you.

Brother Avinash, I have posted my question on this topic in the thread titled "Incarnation of God..". Thank you.

Brother Avinash, if that be the case, then, firstly, there will be a new begining of the material world, every time it is created after each destruction. Secondly, from an overall perspective, was there not a first creation and a first destruction of this material world?

My brother, you say that there is also a possibility of later interpolations. Can you please elaborate on this? Has this possibility ever been analysed and checked for confirmation or complete rejection?

God bless you, my brother Avinash In one of the earlier posts, I am really sorry for I could not find it to reference it, one of the brothers had said that my soul is actually the real me while this body is only a vessel. So, this mean that only my material vessel is created by God, while the real 'me' is not created. Why then am I made to be a prisoner of the cycle of life and death. Was it only because God was stronger than my eternally existing soul and thus forced 'me' into this cycle?

Brother gHari, my cited question was not with reference to incarnation or re-incarnation. I just wanted to know if the material world, according to Hinduism, had a begining in time or not. However old it may be, did it have a begining? Is it a creation of God or has it eternally existed, with God. Thank you.

No brother, that is not the case. Please don't misconstrue me. I am not saying that God cannot transcend the physical machinery. I am only saying that, as a generally known principle he does not.

Thank you, my brother. I will continue, as you say. I was just going through the first chapter of the Gita and it full of references to names, which I know nothing of. Would you recommend a commentry that may help me know the background and the names referred to, there? Just out of curiosity, do you not believe that this material world has a begining? Just a point of clarification, please. I have absolutely no doubt that God can do anything. Believe me, my questions may please not be taken as my skepticism about God's omnipotence. My questions are only to understand the wisdom for something that is believed to be his action. This point needs some clarification. I am sure you would appreciate that, at least to my mind, there is a difference between "God revealing His existence to us" and "A book declaring that God revealed His existence to us". Why is God not revealing himself now? Why has He subjected us to believe a 'book' while he privileged some to witness him directly? I really feel that for all the eyes that see, God's existence is revealed in every thing around us as well as within us. Is it not? My Brother, as I have stated earlier, for me it is not a question of God's powers or whether he 'can' do a particular thing. If, as a general principle, (which I have been subjected to and so too my father, grand father and great grand father and all those before them) God does not make an appearance, then this principle is based on the absolute wisdom of God. An alleged exception to this principle must not only explain why did such an exception take place, but also why the general principle was otherwise. These lines are only written to express my mind. Please do not waste your time in replying to them, if you don't find them deserving of your attention. I am reading the Gita, as you have directed me to. Thank you very much.

I understand. I think that makes a lot of sense. This should indeed be the standard, if one wants to understand any writing. Thank you very much for the clarification.

Is belief not to be based on understanding then?

My brother Avinash, this was the second essential belief that you had posted in one of your earlier replies. WIll I be correct to interpret that your statement means that the soul has no begining and no end? If yes, would it mean that the soul is not created by God? Thank you.

Thank you, Shiv I think that is indeed possible. However, equally possible is the fact that none of my questions is perceived as relevant or pertinent by you, because you have a present notion (which is not subject to revision) based on your current belief that such a concept did exist. One person says God incarnated to check the evil of someone or some nation. I know that God checks many evils everyday, without making an appearance. In my mind, if this is the case, then checking anyone's evil cannot be the basic cause of an incarnation. Another person quoted the scripture saying that God incarnated to show mercy to His devotees. I know that God shows mercy on many of his devotees everyday, without having to make an appearance. In my mind, then, showing mercy on His devotees cannot be the basic cause of incarnation. Another person says that God incarnates as human being to be a role model for ordinary human beings. However, firstly, the incarnation under consideration in that post was not one of a human form; secondly, if God incarnates as a human being with all his absolute powers and attributes, how could a man with godly powers be a role model for fallible and imperfect human beings. Another person says, because God can do anythiing with or without making an appearance, therefore He could have controlled some things without making an appearance, while for others He made an appearance. The fact is that the overwhelming principle in the running of this world is that God does not make an appearance, as far as our direct knowledge is concerned. If that were not the case, there would have been no problem to accept anything about God's appearance in any age, for any reason. However, we know that if God is running the affairs of this world on the general principle of remaining hidden, then God's absolute wisdom would require that the principle be excepted only under clear circumstances which require that exception. This may indeed be because of my limited and obscured vision. If someone were to tell you that you should believe that the sun came out from the west one day. Would you just believe it because someone told you so? Would it be sufficient for him to say that you must believe it merely on the basis that because God can do it, He did it? You would find it hard to believe because you find it clearly against the physical laws of God, according to which this solar system is running. I am facing the same problem in accepting the concept of incarnation. It is clearly against the general physical laws, on which this universe is running (in my mind, at least). You may term my questions to be a result only of a mind clouded under some preconceived ideas. You have a right to do so. Just as much as I have a right to post my questions here. Please bear in mind that even if I do not find the evidence presented so far to be sufficient for me to accept that God incarnated in a physical form, yet I respect your belief and would refrain, to the best of my abilities, to say anything that may sound disrespectful. If you do not find my questions to be coming from an honest mind, you have the right to not answer them. Best regards and thank you.

Thank you very much, all my brothers. God bless you. In this post, I will refrain to post my questions on your answers. However, I will post another related question, which may appear to some as irrelevant to this thread. Nonetheless, I really feel that this may help me understand the idea of the belief in incarnation of God. My question is: However large the numbers of the incarnations that one may believe in, it seems that normally God does not make a known physical appearance in this physical world. Why is that so? Why does God not make a known physical appearance, generally? Will greatly appreciate your thoughts as well as some information on what the scriptures say about it? Thank you, very much indeed. God bless you all.

Thank you, my brother for your wonderful prayers, good wishes and guidance. I really do not know if my asking questions would be construed as a sign of any lack of sincerity on my part. To be honest, it is not important to me how any one sees my sincerity, as long as the One who knows the deepest thoughts of every mind, knows what I am inside. My dear brother, following the link that you had guided me to. I started with the Preface written by the translator. He writes there: Please note the underlined phrases. Firstly, do you really place me as a 'conditioned mind'? Do you think I am ready for this study? Secondly, it seems to me that the study of Gita, presupposes the belief that the respected Krishna was, in fact, an incarnation of God. I really find it hard to bring myself to accepting that, as I have not yet come accross a single satisfactory answer as to why would God incarnate himself. Please help me. What should I do?

Thank you, my brother I think this is indeed a very valid point. Please let me state in my words what you are saying, so that I can be sure I have understood you correctly. What you are saying is that because the concept of reincarnation and the concepts that animals have souls as propounded by Hinduism makes sense, therefore you believe that the scriptures giving this view are divine. Would you consider this an appropriate representation of your point? Thank you and God bless you.

I am sorry. I understand. Ok. Self-Realization is the basis of your belief. Obviously this is neither questionable nor discussable and so, not communicable. Thank you.

Thank you, my brother Pankaja_Dasa, I am not qualified to answer these questions. I have addressed the same questions to Muslims and Christians. If I were to get a satisfactory answer, I would let you know. But, obviously, this forum would not be a good place for that. Don't you agree? My brother, I have no intention of debating an issue I know nothing of. I am asking you about the basis of your belief in the scriptures and in response you tell me that the Qur'an does not mention reincarnation of the soul. Ok, so it doesn't. But my question remains unanswered. What is the basis of your believing any of your scriptures to be divine? Now this is really interesting. What exactly are you answering? Does your quote give the answer to the question 'what is the basis of believing that your scripture is divine'? Thank you.

Thank you very much my brother gHari, God bless you. What I understand from this is that you are saying that when one reads it, one feels it inside that it comes from God. Is that correct? If so, which of the Vedas would you recommend that I start my reading from? The only problem that I face here is that if I were to start reading the Vedas and then were to tell you that I did not feel the same sensation in myself that you had. You would, most likely look at it as my bias and prejudice. Even if you would never have seen inside my heart. I will read the Vedas with honesty and openness. I promise God. But, what I am trying to say is that what one feels after reading a literature is actually sometimes more in oneself than in the literature that he is reading. You may never feel what a Christian feels while reading the Gospel or what a Muslim feels while reading the Koran. The problem is not in the Gospel or the Koran but in the mental and psychological bent with which one is approaching these books. Don't you agree with this? I am sure they did. However, being a matter of 'tasting the pudding', their sense of taste cannot benefit me or even you. We'll have to the 'tasting' on our own and then we'll have no choice but to rely on our own sense of taste. God's incarnation is obviously a matter of belief. And as I have been informed by brother Avinash, it is not mentioned in the Vedas. Would you then recommend that I read the Puranas as well? Which other books would you recommend for me to read and in what sequence? Thank you, my brother. God bless you.

I don't know what will happen, if I embrace another religion. But should we allow the fear of the unknown, the unseen and the uncontrollable be a hindrance in our way of accepting what we have truly understood to be the Truth from God?