Kulapavana

There are atrocities everywhere by people of many faiths and nations if you really want to go that rout feel free...

yes, indeed... and they ALL should be condemned. Israeli and American atrocities are just as repugnant as atrocities committed by BinLaden and other Arab terrorists. this was my point all along. will you condemn Israeli atrocities? Whose atrocities do I refuse to condemn?

it is people like you who try to whitewash demonic activities just because they are done by people you happen to support, I guess because they are from your ethnic group? If so, such behavior is based on primitive bodily concept of life. My tribe can do no wrong... you twist logic and language to make it palatable to your mind, but KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IS WRONG, regardles of who does it.

May we merit seeing the day when all humanity will serve the Almighty in harmony and peace. Amen

now, that is true spirituality! Hare Krsna!

Actually Egypt, Saudi Arabia , and Jorden agree with Israel in this fight as well. They have stated that the response, while heavy handed, is within Israels rights as they were attacked..

care to post some relevant quotations from these people?

Please take off your white hood when posting here, this is supposed to be a peaceful place.

if anybody is wearing a hood here it is people like you: nameles guests posting inflamatory personal attacks from the safety of their anonimity. I use my initiated name and have to live with real consequences of what I write here.

almost the entire world condemns the barbaric atrocities committed by Israel over the years in ME. there are countless UN resolutions proving that. are they all Clansmen like I'm supposed to be?

you can be a racist bigot wearing a yarmulke. you think they only come in white hoods? do you want me to post some examples here?

Not only people - cows also...

people who have no regard for the loss of human life in general will not have any regards for the life of cows either. preaching to such people is a waste of time for sadhakas like us.

Well condsidering that it would be too easy to abuse such an open system - I guess for now it should be like this and - when there is no more terror and no more propensity for terror - then I'm sure that the law shall reflect the then circumstances..

yes, TODAY the state of Israel is a blatantly racist country practicing rampant state sponsored terrorism. and because of that TODAY it is shun by the entire world except USA which is controlled by the Israeli lobby.

if and when that changes, I'm sure Israel will be treated with more respect by the free world.

Our shastra is THE weapon. What need is there for mundane sciences?

sometimes these mundane sciences also help us to better understand and appreciate shastra. in the right hands science can be used for preaching. we Vaishnavas are not Luddites. Vedic civilization of old was extremely advanced both materially and spiritually. Vedic cities covered many square miles and were designed based on mundane sciences as well. read about it before you make such statements.

the conflict between mundane science and Krsna consciousness is created only by your own immature understanding.

Still they admit that there is no iron on the Moon.

The Earth has iron in the soil all over the world.

 

They say the iron of the Earth was all drained into the Earth's core and that is why they can't find iron on the Moon.

 

You can take any sample of soil from anywhere on Earth and find some traces of iron.

 

There is no iron on the "MOON".

 

And you believe these "scientists"?

there is plenty of iron on the Moon, but less than on Earth, at least on the surface of the Moon that has been explored:

"In Earth rocks, iron occurs in both the 2+ and 3+ oxidation states. On the Moon, iron occurs in the 0 (metal) and 2+ oxidation states, although in lunar igneous rocks almost all of the iron is in the 2+ oxidation state (in olivine, pyroxene, and ilmenite). On the Moon all manganese is also in the 2+ oxidation state. Because Fe(II) and Mn(II) have very similar chemical behaviors, iron does not fractionate from manganese during lunar geochemical processes. As a result, the ratio of iron to manganese in lunar rocks is nearly constant at 70, regardless of whether the rocks are from the maria (high Fe and Mn) or from the highlands (low Fe and Mn). Nonlunar meteorites have different Fe/Mn ratios. Earth rocks have a huge range of Fe/Mn ratios, but for average terrestrial crust the ratio is a bit lower than on the Moon."

http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/moon/howdoweknow.html

do yourself a favor, Guest. google some information before you make an ASStronomical ignorant of yourself here...

Are these kids writing death to lebanese children there?

 

...

 

So how about that? Just see the look in that sad boy's face!!

the Israeli kids are being trained by the adults to hate, just like the Palestinian kids - no difference whatsoever.

and the boy is sad because his family was killed by the Israelis, he is hungry because Israeli air strikes disrupted the food supply, and in general has no future. he is also very angry and will certainly grow up hating you folks. you are not SOLVING the problem of terrorism - you are CREATING it.

dogs fighting other dogs

So here he being critical of false followers of faiths - not that he is denouncing biblical faiths - [like you do].

I denounce religious primitives who butcher other people using their religion as a prop. I denounce injustice regardless of whatever good intentions may be claimed by the perpetrators.

I had heard that Srila Prabhupada predicted that some of his disciples would leave upon hearing the accounts of the 5th Canto. Still, that did not deter him in any way.

 

So, what is the solution? To edit out these portions from Srila Prabhupada's books? To just write them off as "allegorical", when that was never the mood while Srila Prabhupada was personally present?

 

some things are allegorical, some things are exagerrations to make a point, and yes, some things seem to be errors in Bhagavatam verse interpretations. There is no verse in Bhagavatam that says that the Moon planet is closer to planet Earth than the Sun globe in a linear sense.

and btw. to claim that Rahu is what we see in the sky every night as Moon is completely BOGUS, as Rahu is a subtle and invisible planet. NOBODY points to the Moon and says it is Rahu. Some devotees invent concocted explanations to avoid facing the facts.

Again:

first of all: Bhagavatam is talking about planes of existence not planets. the distances given there do not correspond to the linear distances between planet earth and other planets. they are elevations above Garbhodaka Ocean of the various planes of existence. these distances are there to give us some idea of the structure of the Universe, or it's proportions - thats all. try to understand what Garbhodaka Ocean really is. Brahma travelled down the lotus stem for a very long time at great speed and still could not reach the Ocean. think about it.

second of all, this world is multi-dimensional and and even with the respect to the earthly plane of existence we perceive only a small part of it - perfect example are the Himalayas, where we see only a fraction of their existence. the Moon we see is also but a small part of the lunar plane of existence. the same with the Sun - both are actually only a window into these planes of existence, or the shadow of these worlds cast into our world.

the key to the understanding of the Universe is the understanding of space or ether, akhasa. akhasa is non-linear and multi-dimensional. the perception of space is dependent on the consciousness.

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Anti-matter is not spirit, dinosaurs were real and are now extinct, Moon is closer to Earth than Sun. Deal with these facts or risk becoming completely irrelevant among the vast majority of people. The strength of the Vaishnava acharyas is not in material sciences - it was never meant to be that way.

who cares if you die believing that Moon is closer to Earth than Sun? dont let such issues spoil your faith in Krsna. follow your heart and your intelligence. blind faith is not required for a Vaishnava.

In 1966 there was a quite similiar situation:

 

Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

 

Prabhupada: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight.

Precisely! just dogs fighting other dogs...

If you had made this complaint while Srila Prabhupada was still physically present to address such concerns, how would he respond? Would he agree, disagree? Perhaps challenge the strength of your faith in his purports?

we will never know. but he realized he was not an expert in the scientific field and wanted his scientist disciples to pursue the subject of scientific presentation of Vedic knowledge.

Bottom line, I don't think preaching will suffer, as some suggest, just because Srila Prabhupada spoke of these things in his Srimad Bhagavatam. Srila Prabhupada knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that some devotees would have problems accepting the 5th Canto, yet he challenged our faith anyway. Are we up to the challenge? That is the question.

the preaching HAS suffered. I have been preaching since 1979 and I have spent countless hours showing to people that such topics are ultimately irrelevant and nurturing back their faith because nobody with any kind of science background believes the Sun is closer to the Earth than Moon, and that btw. includes all BI members I have talked to.

many verses of the Fifth Canto are very, very criptic and there are many ways they can be translated into English. I gave you one example above.

all this being said, I firmly believe the Vedic scriptures give us an incredible and true picture of the universe. read again my earlier post. I have spent many years studying this subject from all kinds of Vedic sources.

The space shuttle travels at an average speed of 18,000 miles and hour.

At that speed it would take about 12 hours to get to the Moon.

 

However, it took them 4 days to get to the Moon.

There is something wrong with these figures they are giving.

first of all they were not using the shuttle and it was not a linear journey as they spent some time orbiting. personally, I think it is quite likely they did not land humans on the Moon as it would have been too difficult (that part is likely a hoax), but the mirror array is there and was not there earlier. perhaps they used robotic drop mission to land it on the Moon.

There are soem very fixed up and sincere devotees who believe in the ritvik concept..

that is true. but they also have some really obnoxious followers, who dont care if Prabhupada's mission is harmed, as long as they push their view.

Without doubt, some of these guys won't show up at the temple after reading the magazine (which is what the ritviks want, keep people away from the temple). Isn't this a great dis-service (sp?) to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna?

Like Prabhupada said, we can only be destroyed from within...

arka-gabhastibhyah--from the rays of the sunshine; uparistat--above; laksa-yojanatah--by a measurement of 100,000 yojanas;

 

TRANSLATION

 

Above the rays of the sunshine by a distance of 100,000 yojanas [800,000 miles] is the moon...

 

SB 5.22.8

what precisely does that mean? Above the rays of the sunshine?

faith is good. blind faith is not. you are supposed to use your brain to understand shastra. too often devotees oversimplify things and jump to conclusions based on blind faith and naive concepts. that approach is not helping anyone. when convenient, devotees will reject some shastric (especially from other Puranas or Mahabharata) verses as "contaminated". yet they insist on interpreting some Bhagavatam verses in a way that contradicts both direct experience and logic. There is nobody I know alive today who has a clear concept of Vedic view of the Universe or who can present such a concept in a way that makes sense.

the idea of Vedic Planetarium is nice, but the truth is that such a presentation is beyond the ability of devotees involved to grasp it, let alone present it to public in a three dimensional way that does not contradict direct perception and logic.

making boastfull claims is easy. but delivering on such claims is not.

He now lives in Mayapur and is one of the main "consultants" for the temple project. He still walks with the same mood that he owns the place. And he is also giving regular Bhagavatam classes there. All of the bengali devotees treat him like a guru... some people never learn.

 

ouch!... that is insanity... proof positive these deviants must be fully brought to account for their past misdeeds while there is still time. this guy is one of the most disgusting people to ever disgrace our society.

The distance to the Moon can now be measured with a laser beam down to less than an inch at a given time, thanks to the mirror array placed on the Moon by the Apollo mission.

Show me a source to your claim on marriage, bet you can`t because it is untrue.

You stated that Israelies lose citizenship if they intermarry with Palistinians which is 100% not true.

Israeli Parliament Adopts Racist Marriage Laws

By Frances M. Beal

The current Israeli regime has provided further ammunition to those fighting for Palestinian sovereignty who have long promoted the slogan that “Zionism is racism” and a “form of apartheid.”

This ammo entails a newly passed law affecting Palestinian marriages that mirrors those of our own southern racists, which provides measures to strip Arab Israelis of their citizenship if they marry Palestinians. For African Americans who were subjected to a hundred years of anti-miscegenation laws promulgated by the white supremacists that ruled in Dixie, it is an all too familiar story. [Webster’s dictionary defines miscegenation as “a mixture of races; especially marriage or cohabitation between a white person and a member of another race.”]

The story first appeared in an August 3, 2003 report by the Jerusalem-based writer, Justin Huggler. It was printed in the Independent, a well-known British newspaper. This racist marriage law was passed in the Knesset (the Israeli Parliament) and goes into effect immediately.

Components of the law also include the following:

• Palestinians will be excluded from obtaining citizenship or residency. Anyone else who marries an Israeli will be entitled to Israeli citizenship.

• Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza Strip will either have to move to the occupied territories, or live apart from their husband or wife.

• Children of these unions will also be affected: from the age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel. The statute is a direct reversal of one of the provisions of the ten-year old Oslo Agreement, which allowed family reunions for Arabs inside Israel. In fact, many marriages of Palestinian Arabs with Israeli Arabs did occur. In practice, the Palestinian spouse was automatically eligible for Israeli citizenship and it was understood that Israeli citizenship would be denied in only very extreme cases. http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2003-08/13beal.cfm

Oh so you can`t answer my question about the source of your untrue claim ?

what was your question? ask it again, as I must have missed it.

first of all: Bhagavatam is talking about planes of existence not planets. the distances given there do not correspond to the linear distances between planet earth and other planets. they are elevations above Garbhodaka Ocean of the various planes of existence. these distances are there to give us some idea of the structure of the Universe, or it's proportions - thats all. try to understand what Garbhodaka Ocean really is. Brahma travelled down the lotus stem for a very long time at great speed and still could not reach the Ocean. think about it.

second of all, this world is multi-dimensional and and even with the respect to the earthly plane of existence we perceive only a small part of it - perfect example are the Himalayas, where we see only a fraction of their existence. the Moon we see is also but a small part of the lunar plane of existence. the same with the Sun - both are actually only a window into these planes of existence, or the shadow of these worlds cast into our world.

the key to the understanding of the Universe is the understanding of space or ether, akhasa. akhasa is non-linear and multi-dimensional. the perception of space is dependent on the consciousness.

Prabhuji - all of this is nothing but a tricky assembling of the material energy, mainly tamas and rajas. This tricky combination of the modes should not be given the permission to distract our transcendental activity to serve our eternal Lord Sri Krishna. Or as the Lord Himself puts it:

 

"Rise above these modes, O Kulapavana. Be transcendental to all of them. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the Self."

 

Just see, the Lord even says: "all of them"!

we all serve in our natural way. Arjuna's service was different than Vyasadeva's. sometimes the problem with devotees is that they practice pseudo-transcendence and fail to take a stand on material issues that do matter in the world around them.

as a devotee with a kshatriya nature I tend to take interest in social matters pertaining to the world around me. I see it as part of my service to Krsna. how do you know Krsna is not using my tendencies to perform service for Him? how do you measure my surrender to His will?

fake brahmanas are dime a dozen and they are responsible for the sorry social state of our movement today. most people see us as completely irrelevant, caught up in their own pseudo-vedic fantasy. people who claim they can save the world but who cant save their own society... it's a joke.

who around you is truly established in the Self? do you really understand what it means? how many devotees truly established in the Self do you know?

our Krsna consciousness needs to manifest in a practical way. we need to follow the path of justice, truth, and kindness in life. FIRST establish yourself on the level of goodness before you can reach for transcendence.

Latest lie, show me a source to your claim on marriage, bet you can`t because it is untrue

whatever...

and you can try to have a conversation by answering direct questions.

The fact that Bhavananda is now back in Mayapur in a position of authority ...

wow! can you elaborate, please? I have heard he was giving classes there several times in the past few years (which seemed bad enough). Is there more to it?