shvu

Was Prabhupada, the Gaudiya Vaishnava, even aware of how the Vedas are classified at their highest level? How could he, when he belonged to a tradition that all but completely ignored the Vedas in favor its own proprietary concepts, while still using the label 'Vedic' as a sales pitch? To criticize Newton and Darwin for plagiarism from the Vedas shows a deep level of ignorance and a lack of responsbility in making such careless accusations. He could get away with such nonsensical accusations, as he was surrounded by bumbling idiots who had no serious knowledge themselves and believed everything he told them.

The Vedas are religious texts dealing with Gods, prayers and procedures for social life and rituals in a primitive society - most of which has been obsolete for a long time. They were not dealing with science and math. They were certainly not dealing with 803.11 protocols or nano-technology as some gentleman seems to think above. They did not deal with gravitation for Newton to steal information nor with evolution for Darwin to steal.

Varahamihira the celebrated astrologer from the Gupta period thanks the Greeks for giving us the knowledge of astronomy. Now our patriots will claim that the Greeks got this knowlegde from the Rig Veda and passed it back to us. How is is that the Greeks can get it, but we cannot and have to rely on a foreign source for the same info? People who talk about advanced sciences in the Vedas are those who have no idea what these texts are. When challenged, they engage in tap-dancing about lost portions, hidden meanings, etc. Be honest and admit you do not know. Or you can always prove me wrong - not by quoting Bengali Babus, but with proper evidence.

Oh and just in case, for the curious, all the four samhitas and a couple of Brahmanas are translated on sacred-texts.com. The main Upanishads have been available online for a long time. In due course, the Aaranyakas will be out too.

Cheers

Do you prefer that Hindus get down on their knees and beg for recognitions despite of the knowledge and wisdom they have process in Vedas?

What knowledge and wisdom may that be?

You know something, IF the knowledge of Vedas were given to Chinese, all the patents in the World could be in their hands and they could be making millions.

Hmm....you are right. The recent blackberry patent war, microsoft patent wars, etc., have their roots in the Satapatha Brahmana and the Taittirieya Upanishad. And you know all about this.

Sometime back, you made a comment on this forum that Kalki was predicted in the Gita. When asked for proof, you vanished. You have not even bothered to read a simply 700 verse poem and here you are, commented about patent material in the Vedas.

Good for you!

Cheers

Below it says, Darwin stole parts of his theory from the Vedas and combined it with his speculation. Because his theory contains parts of vedic knowledge people became bewildered and declared Darwinism as science.

 

Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey’s tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he could only see as deep as the body. He could not see it was the soul…

Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is… Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that, “We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men.” Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big—British. They wanted it. “British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world.” All Lords, Sirs, and this and that… They wanted to prove, “The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world.” And this was their pledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For a while they did a pretty good job.

Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time…, no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the… That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.

 

 

 

Morning Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

June 23, 1977, Vṛndāvana

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/770623rc.vrn.htm

Elsewhere on this forum, someone once posted a Prabhupada comment that according to Darwin, his grandfather was a monkey per his evolution theory. Apparently, that was funny to Prabhupada, which means he must have thought the Vedas are funny too (by the above comment). Anyway, as long as it is fun....

But I remember his staunch "Every Prabhupada statement is flawless and we will defend them till the end by adding any spin as necessary" disciples have in the past, mocked Darwin and evolution scientists, calling them fools and atheists who lacked the superior intelligence posessed by our high school dropout friends. Evidently, these gentlemen were not aware of the above Prabhupada theory or they would have been a tad more careful in their criticism.

I guess it is ok to keep fooling ourselves as long we are doing it convincingly.

Cheers

Perhaps knowledge had not evolved; such the same can be noted in the progression of India's religions with Hinduism and the varieties born thereof.

But Jesus was right there in person to give them the necessary knowledge!

They already knew and accepted their local version of God as an old, bearded angry man who was in control. How hard would it be for them to switch to a desi version of a clean-shaven God wearing Indian style silk dhotis and earrings?

It is not a question of intelligence apparently as our esteemed colleagues on this forum have argued several times. They have been severely critical of people who have tried to approach the topic of God through intelligence and logic. So no evolution of knowledge or intelligence was necessary.

Even today, the majority of the world is not worshipping Krishna. But that did not stop the name from being circulated anyway. So what was the problem with releasing the name in the middle east just 2000 years ago?

Are we still gonna hunt for lame excuses or can we be more honest and admit that the most likely option is Jesus never heard of Krishna? And there is absolutely no evidence to show otherwise? Ot is this approach a problem because it is rational?

Cheers

Funny:P because CBrahma has put you on ignore, and so he wouldn't be able to take your advice. Hope you appreciate the irony, though.

Let us hope Krsna has not put you on ignore and can still read your posts.

This ignore option sounds cool. Should try it sometime.

Cheers

He has been on mine for awhile.

I appreciate that. I also notice you have finally given up your penchant for periodically mocking Hindus, Advaita/Mayavada and your "Vaishnava is not Hindu" and "Jesus is Vaishnava" thumping.

It was so bordering paranoia that I was worried you were incapable of a cure. But praise the Lord, for our efforts did not go in vain and you have been cured. The world is a better place today by this change.

Cheers

Best to put shvu on your ignore list! Also report him to the admin 5 for bad posts.

 

Pray for him that Krsna may take away his burning hatred and envy of the Vaisnavas.

Come on dude...you are being a baby. Putting people on your ignore list just because they are right and proved you wrong? Isn't that over-reacting? But on second thought, you have been born a Shudra and cannot speak intelligently. So I really should not expect anything better than being on your ignore list.

Btw, I love Vaishnavas which makes you wrong. It is this love that makes me write these posts to correct their mistakes (they make a lot of mistakes as they have been born as Shudras by their own admission and lack intelligence) and show them the way. Isn't that the humane thing to do?

Admin5 is mot sleeping. He/She is watching all the posts here and knows what to do.

Cheers

Good thought, that's why I suppose Christ did not revealed his Father's name in the West. I suppose He understood what the circumstances and time asked Him to do so.

What about those circumstances and time? What do you think would have happened if the name was revealed back then?

Cheers

Get serious. Everybody in Kali-Yuga is born sudra or lower.

Nonsense as usual...but just to ask, does this include Prabhupada and Chaitanya?

Religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

- Wikipedia

<TABLE class=wikitable style="WIDTH: 90%"><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Abrahamic religions

3.4 billion

</TD><TD>Christianity</TD><TD>2.1 billion</TD><TD>1st c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Worldwide except Northwest Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and parts of Central, East, and Southeast Asia.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Islam</TD><TD>1.5 billion</TD><TD>7th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Middle East, Northern Africa, Central Asia, South Asia, Western Africa, Indian subcontinent, Malay Archipelago with large population centers existing in Eastern Africa, Balkan Peninsula, Russia, Europe and China.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Judaism</TD><TD>14 million</TD><TD>1300 BCE</TD><TD><SMALL>>Israel and among Jewish diaspora (live mostly in USA and Europe)</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Bahá'í Faith</TD><TD>7 million</TD><TD>19th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>Dispersed worldwide with no major population centers</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=4>Indian religions

1.4 billion

</TD><TD>Hinduism</TD><TD>900 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Indian subcontinent, Fiji, Guyana and Mauritius</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Buddhism</TD><TD>376 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD><SMALL>Indian subcontinent, East Asia, Indochina, regions of Russia.</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Sikhism</TD><TD>25.8 million</TD><TD>15th c.</TD><TD><SMALL>India, Pakistan, Africa, Canada, USA, United Kingdom</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Jainism</TD><TD>4.2 million</TD><TD>Iron Age (1200–300 BCE)</TD><TD><SMALL>India, and East Africa</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=7>Far Eastern religions

500 million

</TD><TD>Taoism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD><SMALL>China and the Chinese diaspora</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Confucianism</TD><TD>unknown</TD><TD>Spring and Autumn Period (722 BC-481 BC)</TD><TD><SMALL>China, Korea, Vietnam and the Chinese and Vietnamese diasporas</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Shinto</TD><TD>4 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Japan</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Caodaism</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>1925</TD><TD><SMALL>Vietnam</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Chondogyo</TD><TD>1.13 million</TD><TD>1812</TD><TD><SMALL>Korea</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Yiguandao</TD><TD>1-2 million</TD><TD>c. 1900</TD><TD><SMALL>Taiwan</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>Chinese folk religion</TD><TD>394 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder, a combination of Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>China</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD rowSpan=3>Ethnic/tribal

400 million

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Primal indigenous</TD><TD>300 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>India, Asia</SMALL></TD></TR><TR><TD>African traditional and diasporic</TD><TD>100 million</TD><TD><SMALL>no known founder</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Africa, Americas</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Cheers

Vedas are anything but primative. how can a scripture that had the basis of modern algebra and architecture be primitive? how can a system that knew about atoms over 2000 years ago be primitive??

You are responding to a 4 year old post. It is highly unlikely that the OP is around to read your response.

Cheers

Hello I have been studying Hinduism off and on for about a year now. With this site and many books I heard about from here, I have learned alot. I still have some questions, and I was hoping for some answers. I wont bog you down with them, so here it goes.

 

Do you believe the events that occured in the Gita and the Ramayan actually took place? To clarify further, do you believed Hanuman walked the earth and there really was a battle of Kurukshetra? If so, have archaeologists discovered remains of the battle?

 

Your question has two parts...one is you are asking for individual beliefs and the second is you are asking about the archaeological position.

To directly jump to the second part, there is not a single shred of evidence acceptable by science to support the Ramayana and the Mahabharata.

So did they never happen? They may have happened, minus all the magic of talking monkeys and sarees of infinite length. Or they never happened at all.

Cheers

You like broad minded thinking? Then you will have no problems with

 

"Vishnu is a form of Shiva. Anyone who worships Vishnu is a Shaiva without knowing it".

Bet AM does not like this kind of broad thinking.

Broad thinking is good only when the results align with our beliefs. In all other cases, broad thinking is bad & instead we should rely on scriptural evidence.

So broad thinking as in Jesus = Vishnu is good.

broad thinking as in Shiva = Vishnu is bad. (come on, where is the evidence?)

Cheers

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The Srimad Bhagavatam (11.5.38-40) talks about a period in Kali yuga where even demigods and denizens of the higher planetary systems desire to take birth. This period, which started about 500 years ago with the appearance of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, will last for 10,000 years. It is said that in this period the influences of the Kali yuga will be counteracted by the pure devotees of the Lord. Their weapon will be the nama-sankirtana or devotional chanting of the name, and with this they will reverse the influences of Kali yuga. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

That is funny. If these people will reverse the effects of Kali yuga, then the original definition [in Puranas] of Kali-yuga as a period of gradual deterioration, lasting four hundred thousand years is wrong.

If the text book definition of Kali-yuga is wrong, then the above statement which is a function of Kali-yuga becomes wrong too.

Cheers

Wow. All of you are extremely intelligent. Thank you for your thoughts on this phenomenon. It is a difficult one for me as I have had no one to relate to with it. Yet I know there are millions out there that have them. I will look into this Grof fellow's books. My goodness they are expensive. Once again thank you for the information.

You cannot have a vision about something that you have not known before. So visions do not come from outside, they have a basis in your memory. I cannot get a vision of a 1000 year old Chinese saint just as a chinese man cannot get a vision of Shiva or Krishna.

Cheers

Well we have created a situation where we have become dependent upon electricity. But what about all those millions of animal species - they have a situation to perfectly eat, fly, dive, navigate, construct, etc. etc., without there's any need of having power outlets in their homes. In fact they even can produce electricity without paying, just within their own bodies.

What a naive view. If it were not for these advancements people like yourself would not have been exposed to a religious doctrine such as GV from a foreign country. Most people in India have never heard of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and in spite of its obvious lack of flavor in its own country, the only reason foreigners know about it is due to technological advancements in the past few centuries, which have made it possible for people and information to cut across geographical boundaries. You ought to be grateful to all these scientists (and electricity) for else you would never even have heard the name Krishna!

This is the problem with rejecting a real world view in favor of some idyllic utopia which is only good on paper.

Cheers

The martial arts we are talkin about are the ones that are perfected & practised by "Ahimsak" Buddhists like Shaolin Kung-Fu, Thai Kick boxing, the Samurai, the tibetan martial arts & various other forms that developed in other buddhist nations.

 

Historians claim that the origins of all forms of eastern martial arts can be traced back to a form of martial art practised in southern india by buddhist monks

 

what is the need for such lethal martial arts if you believe in ahimsa ?

Perhaps the need for self-defence?

It is not the case that people proficient in martial arts went around beating up other people.

Cheers

So, it's more merciful to slit an animal's throat, eat it's flesh, and let it go on it's way to it's next life (which, we don't even know what the animal will be reincarnated as) than to let it live out it's own life, learn what it needed to learn from that life in the first place, and then die naturally?

Aren't we being a little dense?

This is not about slaughtering animals for food. It is about *sacrificing* animals following prescribed rites. You may like it or leave it, but this was the belief and was practised for thousands of years until it ceased to be fashionable.

Just in case you are thinking I endorse the practise and am sacrificing animals in my backyard, I am not.

If you want to know more, read "Myth of the holy cow".

Cheers

What's the difference? Intelligence? Does that mean that it's okay to sacrifice babies as well?

By your own logic, No. Humans are capable of advancing spiritually which animals are not. Hence, the differentiation as this is the only shortcut available to animals.

Cheers

So then it'd be okay to kill a sadhu or a sannyasi (b/c you know that they're in Maha Samadhi and you'll just be sending them to God) and then eat their flesh as well?

Sacrifices in Yajnas were for animals...not humans.

Cheers

I've found that all my studies and practices have brought me to a place that I have never experienced before. My Schizophrenia has allowed me to bring a new light to my mind and I can see things much more clearly now.. It feels like a great awakening for me.. I can speak to all the Deities within Sanatana Dharma that I personaly know and have them all working together. I'm not sure how to define Enlightenment in Hinduism..

Anyone have any thoughts?

There is no such thing as "enlightenment in Hinduism". There are several branches in Hinduism and according to most of them, there is no such thing as enlightenment.

Some branches have their version of enlightenment - all different from one another. Pick your choice.

Cheers

Keep it simple. Is the answer a Yes or a No?

Without answering the question directly, there is no point in these long rambling posts.

Cheers

Srila Prabhupada -"Originally pure Krishna consciousness exists, but because of misuse of marginal independence there is a chance of forgetting Krishna. From the state of pure consciousness, the false ego is born because of misuse of independence. We cannot argue about why false ego arises from pure consciousness. Factually, there is always the chance that this will happen, and therefore one has to be very careful." SB 3.26.23-24 pp.

On the other hand there are so many verses in Vedas against animal killing & meat eating. The oldest scripture mentioning 'Ahimsa' is the Taittiriya Samhita of the Yajurveda (TS 5.2.8.7) & yet some idiots think that vegetarianism & Ahimsa was a buddhist influence on hinduism

It is a naive approach to selectively pick out verses of our choice and ignore everything else.

The same scripture that talked about ahimsa also elsewhere advocated animal sacrifice - for which there is ample evidence from no less a source than the Mahabharata and more recently Madhva's biography.

Is it possible that the same source talks about ahimsa and also about animal sacrifice? Why not? The claim is the animal is slaughtered to not know any pain and will ascend to higher realms, something that is not available to other animals. It is considered a privilege and is beneficial to the animal. And what do you do with the meat? Waste it or eat it? Yajnavalkya, et al., made it abundantly clear that they ate and enjoyed the tender meat of these calves that ascended heaven.

Look at real life; people raise pets in their homes and treat them as family members. And yet they also eat meat. By your binary logic, such a thing should not be possible, but it is for real and there exist millions of such people.

In short, it is possible to reconcile ahimsa, love for animals and meat eating. They are not mutually contradictory as we see in real life.

The results speak for themselves, can a meat eating buddhist like Dalai Lama be compared with Swami Ramdev ?

How about comparing a Swami Ramdev with a meat eating Jesus? Do the results speak for themselves here too? And how do the results speak whn we compare two vegetarian Swami's? If one is more popular than the other, does it mean he is more vegetarian than the other?

Cheers

Yea.

"But... he... he called me names first!" Sounds rather childish, I suppose.

On the topic of slaughter, the vedic religion of India did sacrifice animals in yajnas as was the practice in most old world religions with the exception of jainism. And of course, the sacrificed animals were always eaten.

It was only after Buddhism became popular that the practise of vegetarianism became fashionable and appears to have made its way into some Hindu sects. Live animals were replaced by flour animals for sacrifices.

According to Madhva's biography [sumadhva vijaya], animal sacrifice by Brahmanas was still happening during his time - 13th century AD. Soon after he became the head of his Matha, he opposed the concept, stood firm against stiff opposition and replaced live animals with flour animals. He did not say animal sacrifice was not sanctioned in the Veda, his position was it is not required in Kali Yuga.

JHa's book [Myth of the Holy Cow] also makes a strong case to show Brahmanas engaged in animal sacrifice and meat eating during the Vedic period - before the Vedic religion evolved into Hinduism.

Cheers