medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, I agree with your idea. I also want to compare the horoscopes of a couple of completely normal people to make sure that the same things aren't present in them as in the horoscopes of those with illness. I will take quite long because I'm moving to another house in the next couple of weeks and there's confusion everywhere. Once everything is unpacked, I'll also send you the details of Case E. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasusekaran, Please note that in addition to all the valid points you have made, 5th lord (mind) is again with 6th lord (illness) and Rahu is square to Moon, combinations which I have found in many mentally sick people's charts (of course these have to be accompanied by other considerations, too). Another factor that seems impotant to me is that affliction to AK can show in many ways - not necessarily mental illness only. So there has to be some way of narrowing down the mental illness part of it. Other than Moon square Rahu, Moon (karaka of mind) is not only in marana sthana in rasi, but is also in 12th house in navamsa, with 6th lord Mars, aspected by 8th lord Mercury. I am just trying to explore and see if we can add anything to our knowledge by our experience. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Thank you for the information. Regards, Medan

Dear Ram and Shri Sasisekaran, I'm surprised that Ram has not clarified the issue. I had not seen his earlier mail, so I used the time given in the second mail. I went through the trimsamsas of some charts to try to improve my reading of them. Shri Sasisekaran, your advice about focusing on AK and 9th lord's disposition is valuable because it is very confusing to go into all the planets. For example, it is said that planets in the D-30 lagna indicate the ills acquired in this life, those in 8th indicate ills inherited from past and those in 10th indicate mental ills. Supposing a person with Pisces lagna in rasi has Virgo ascendant in the D-30, with Moon and Mars in it. Will we judge the nature/cause of the illness by the karakatwas of Moon and Mars, or their lordships in rasi, or their lordships in D-30? If one considers all of them, it is confusing and too many aspects come into play. Regards, Medan

Dear Ram, I will try to say the little that I can make out of your brother's horoscope.The position of Saturn in the 5th is not at all good, which is so both in rasi and D-30. Moon (who is karaka for mind and 5th lord) in 6th house is also not good. The current dasa is Moon-Saturn. AK Venus is strong in that it is exalted in rasi & navamsa. This is good in itself. But in both it is 8th lord exalted, placed in lagna, which indicates misfortune & suffering. The first depression coincided with Sun's main period. Sun is in marana sthana and can cause great suffering. It was Jupiter sub-period and Jupiter is also in marana sthana, besides being debilitated and with badhak in D-9. The problem got aggravated again under Jupiter's sub-period under Moon. 9th lord Mars seems to be good for him (please confirm). Things should improve considerably from 2013, when Mars dasa starts. The present transit is not favourable - Ketu is transiting natal Saturn and Rahu is transiting natal Mars. He is in the thick of sade saati. Transit Saturn is also aspecting natal Sun, which is always a difficult period. But the situation will not remain quite so bad forever, though he may become chronically ill off and on. Do not lose hope because with the help of medicines and the right kind of support, he should be able to pick up the threads of his life even if he is on medication. I have written on the aspect of his health. As to if and when he'll come back, I'm not qualified enough to say. Good luck, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Could you please answer my questions about Saturn in Case A my last post to you? Especially if Saturn being 12th lord in D-30 will provide any relief, even though it is afflicted by all malefics? (Please refer to my last mail to you.) I am waiting to hear from you. Regards, Medan

Dear Ram, Could you please give your e-mail address, or write to me at mdo3@rediffmail.com. Regards, Medan

Dear Ram, I think Shri Sasisekaran, Shri USR and Deepa-ji are much better qualified to see your brother's horoscope, so you should definitely ask them. However, I will try to help in my own way. Just give me a little time. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, as it has been of great help to me. There is a lot to learn and I need time to absorb and apply the information to many horoscopes to be able to gain a better understanding. According to what you say, it is true that AK is badly afflicted both in Case A and B. 9th lord's disposition in rasi and navamsa seems to be making the slight difference between the two cases (bhagya is worse in Case B). In Case A, when Saturn dasa comes, what will be the effect of Saturn being 12th lord in D-30? I should think that going by D-30, Saturn dasa will have two effects - primarily, there will be a very bad effect, as it is conjoined with all the malefics in the 4th house, thus also afflicting the house of cure. Second, it will manifest the effects of its own houses (in D-30) - 11th and 12th - and since 9th lord Jupiter is in the 12th, there might be some little relief. Are these conclusions right? Leaving aside D-30, Saturn is with 9th lord in rasi and perhaps this will help. Do you agree? (In D-60, too, Saturn is with Jupiter, but it is debilitated.) What I cannot guess at all is how Saturn's exaltation in D-9 will work. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Srisasisekaran, I asked earlier about cure. If I am not wrong, I remember that 4th house in D-30 indicates cure. Also, 12th house. Case A looks drastically bad if we consider the 4th house of the trimsamsa. It seems that whatever improvement there has been will be lost once Saturn dasa comes in 2014. In D-60, Saturn is debilitated. Could you please give your views? Regards, Medan

Dear Shri USR, Still waiting to hear from you. This is a democratic forum and I would like to have a discussion not only with Shri Sasisekaran, but also with you and anybody else who would like to join in. Deepa-ji, have you been following this thread? What are your views? Babu 786, is it possible for you to send the details of your brother and the period during which he was depressed? Regards, Medan

Dear Shrisasisekaran, Yes, I agree that the AK should be given the maximum importance. However, that is so for all horoscopes, so I think one has to take into account other specifics, like mind (5th lord, Moon), wisdom (9th lord, Jupiter), intelligence/rationality (Mercury), and strength/resilience when considering a mental illness. You have commented on will power, which I think is essential for recovery. For this, we will have to check the dispositions of 3rd lord Mercury and Mars (karaka for will) in both horoscopes. Can you please throw some light on two things? 1. How de we see what is the particular destiny indicated by the AK (taking case A, for example) - how do we say what is the karma the person has to achieve? 2. How is the area of 'cure' examined? That would be very important. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Going along the lines you have described, it is still difficult to balance out the negative and positive factors of Cases A and B. Yes, Case B is worse as in D-9, AK is in randhra and so is 5th & 10th lord Mars. But then in Case B, AK & Mars are not much better either, both being in 6th house in badhak's sign. Lagna lord is worse in Case A (being in badhak's vargas many times). As for 9th lord, it is better off in case A - unafflicted in 7th house in D-9; unafflicted in 12th house in D-30; in 7th house but afflicted by badhak and Saturn in D-60. Also, it is swavarga 6 out of 16 times, which is not so in Case B, and is involved in Adhi yoga. In case B, 9th lord is much worse off - in 6th house in D-9; in lagna in D-30; in 2nd house with Rahu in D-60. If we consider 5th lord, Mars, it is much worse in Case A. It is in 12th in rasi, 6th in D-9, 4th (together with Saturn, Sun, Rahu and Ketu) in D-30, and 8th (in badhak's sign) in D-60. How do we balance out which factors are more important? How much comparative weightage do we give to the Moon (karaka for mind and lagna lord), AK, 9th lord and 5th lord, respectively? Regards, Medan

Dear Shri USR, We can keep this forum open - it is up to us. I don't believe that any one person can know everything and I think there is always room for exploration as well as other people's views. I am interested in pursuing knowledge or the truth and whatever seems relevant is welcome and we must keep it that way. So please continue to write, as I am interested in knowing what you have to say. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, On looking into the vargas, I find that in Case A, the ascendant lord is not well placed - it is in badhak venus's signs 7 times. Further, it occupies 12 vargas of its enemies. The only redeeming feature is that it is exalted 4 times, importantly in rasi and trimsamsa. Moon is all the more important, being karaka for mind. 9th lord Jupiter is swavarga 6 times, which is extremely good. It is in friendly signs 10 times, which is also good. AK is in swavarga 5 times and occupies 11 friendly vargas. The bad thing is that it is in badhak's signs 4 times, importantly in rasi and trimsamsa. You asked for my opinion, but I don't really know much. The lagna lord's placements in vargas is bad. Other than that, there are the argalas you mentioned and papakartari to lagna. Then the aspect of 8th and 6th lords on 5th lord, who in addition is in dusthana (12th). I want to ask you: would Jupiter being in swavarga 6 times and AK 5 times help the native's case? In comparison, in Case B, there is nothing either extremely good or bad in the placements of lagna lord, 9th lord or AK. But there is one interesting feature. AK (Rahu) is placed in Sun's varga 6 times - Sun is an enemy and is debilitated in rasi. 2nd house (Leo, in the case of Cancer) also stands for our resources (take it here as resources of the self) and Rahu placed in Leo in 6 of the divisional charts couldn't be good. Also, it seems the debility of Jupiter in rasi and combustion of Mars (5th lord and karaka for will/effort, and rajayogakaraka for Cancer lagna) have certainly affected the native adversely. And there seems to be nothing exceptional to counter the ills. Please do give your views. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran and Shri USR, I am also very grateful for your continued interest. When I said Jupiter is associated with Saturn and Marrs, I meant it is conjoined with Saturn and in mutual aspect with Mars (in 12th). Also, I said Saturn (not Jupiter) is exalted in navamsa. Will this help or hurt the native? I will do as you have asked - check the positions of lagna lord, 9th lord and atmakaraka in vargas. (I don't know if I'll understand anything!) As for Case E, I will definitely post the details, but it will take a few days because I am shifting house soon and the register in which I have the details of that case has been packed. I am interested in knowing why you think the suffering of Case B is worse than Case A - could you please throw some light on it? Thanks and regards, Medan

Dear Shri USR. Of the four cases I have given the birth details of, two have been under heavy medication off and on, but they are intelligent people who are capable of working well (they are good editors in the publishing line), even if not full time. One of them has manic-depressive disorder, which is usually hereditary. Medicine has improved a lot and many people who would earlier have been outright "insane" (e.g., many manic-depressives or extremely depressed people) can lead more normal lives. Case C is temporarily ill and on medicines (depression), but is capable and doing extremely well in life. Case D has got obsessive-compulsive disorder (often incurable because these patients usually refuse to take medical help) - the native has refused to see a doctor and has deteriorated over the last three years, having no respect for the need to look after psychological health. There are indicators of mental illness in this horoscope. But a striking thing is the number of exalted planets in navamsa. I am very interested in knowing whether this will help the native and bring self-improvement. There is a 5th case, of which I can give details if anyone is interested. This was a hopeless case (serious case of schizophrenia), such as the kind you have described. Till 1996 (after which I lost contact with the native), she seemed beyond recall. She was given electric shocks, medicines, etc., but kept relapsing. We can take our time studying these 5 cases to see what is determining recovery and what is causing relapse, etc. Sensitivity is a major factor. I will add that the horoscope should also be checked for will power/effort, rationality and intelligence, as these qualities can help the native overcome problems to some extent. Also, the readiness to learn. For Case A, Jupiter, though associated with two malefics (Mars and Saturn), is in mooltrikona and seems to have brought good during its dasa. It is also part of a semi-functional yoga (9th and 10th lord in mutual aspect), Mars also being rajyogakaraka for Cancer lagna. It seems Saturn dasa would bring serious deterioration. (It is forming vipareet rajayoga with Jupiter and is exalted in navamsa, but it is 8th lord and is with Rahu in badhak's house in navamsa, the only redeeming thing being its association with Jupiter in both rasi and navamsa. It is badly afflicted in Trimsamsa - with Sun, Mars, Ketu and Rahu. It is in Sun's house in 8th, with Mars, Ketu and Rahu in Shashtamsa.) Would anyone give their views on the matter? Regards, Medan?

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Sorry for the typing error. The first para is about Case B and the 2nd one about Case A (the one from Teheran). I meant to say that the ascendant is 19 degrees 47 minutes. The Teheran latitude is 35 degrees 40 minutes north. I used the Lahiri ephemeris. Please teach me/correct me if there is something I should know - I am in the process of learning. Regards Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, A few clarifications: Yes, I made a mistake - in case B, the AK is obviously Rahu. Also, please check - in navamsa of case A, Ketu is not in 4th house, but 5th (20 degrees, 27 minutes). I took special pains to make these four horoscopes and the ascendant of case A (born in Teheran) is 19 degrees 47 minutes, in case this helps to save your time. Also, I should add that leading a fictional existence with no identity of her own, the native lived in a state of delusion even before the illness became clinically manifest. The improvement seems to have coincided exactly with Jupiter dasa (1998). Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, In response to your query as to the level of illness, it is difficult to say, but I will attempt to describe the cases. Case B is an endemic, clinically certified case of bipolar disorder (manic-depressive), for whom it is compulsory to remain on medication lifelong. The person is carrying on in a half-absent state, having lost most of his will power. By now, the medicines have taken care of the violent and suicidal tendencies, but the person does not seem to be able to exert any will power to help himself and is extremely inactive. (This is where I think the combustion of Mars plays an important role in this case.) He lacks will to such an extent that he does not even make any effort to do things which would help him, or be good for him (for example, even going to the doctor), and he has left his illness/recovery to fate, though he has a conscience and is a good person. Incidentally, the native's father committed suicide, maybe in 1997 - if you want, I can try to find out. The native's brother has a milder form of bipolar disorder and was under medication for a short while. However, he leads a perfectly normal life. Case B is also clinically ill and under medication since 1994, but it is difficult to say how much of the illness is endemic and how much induced by trauma. The native's childhood and young adult years were extremely traumatic - in fact, it is known to be a rare case of unusually severe trauma. Her father was very violent, he sexually abused her sister, and her sister sexually and personally abused her till she broke all links with the family at the age of 24. She was made to act out a fictional identity, that too, of a male till that age, and the real self/ego never formed. The mental trauma was first manifested as a series of serious physical illnesses with no proper diagnoses (psychosomatic illnesses). Then came the mental breakdown (depression, disorientation), which at one point became almost as serious as psychosis (sheer insanity). But the native improved from 1998 onwards and has been all right on antidepressants, even free of all medicines for short periods. As I have said earlier, in 2006, a medicine had an unexpected side-effect, which took a toll till late 2007. She is trying to get on her feet again. Any contact with her family makes her more sick. She seems to have chronic depression. She has to lead a very careful and protected life. She cannot take many responsibilities or exertion (the same is true of case B - for example, both can work only for a few hours in a day). She has a strong will to get on with life, but periodically keeps suffering setbacks. Her major problems seem to be complete lack of self-confidence and lack of faith/belief in life. I am very sorry if I have tired you out with unnecessary details, but I find these cases not only very moving and sad, but from the astrological point of view, there is a lot to study. I cannot say which case is worse - in effect, both are chronically ill. What is of foremost importance is how far they will overcome their situation and achieve something worthwhile. Thank you and regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Thank you again for the pains you have taken. In case B, the illness became manifest in 1994. The native went through a mentally critical state in 2000. He has not got into such a state again, but is continuously ill, even though he is under medication. He has to be under medication lifelong. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, Thank you again for all the pains you have taken. In case B, the mental illness became manifest in 1994. The native was in a mentally critical state in 2000. He has not got into such a state since then, but is very ill even though he is continuously on medicines. He has to continue with the medicines lifelong. Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekaran, In chart B, the argala factor does not seem to play a major role. What stands out is the combustion of 5th lord Mars, which is also the AK. Mars is also aspected by the 8th lord, Saturn. In navamsa, Mars is with badhak Venus and with Rahu. In rasi, Sun, Venus and Jupiter are debilitated, but how does this specifically indicate a mental illness? In other charts, Mars does not seem to have any major afflictions. [in trimasamsa, Mars is in Gemini in the 10th house, unaspected. In shashtamsa, Mars is in Leo in the 10th house, with only Rahu's aspect. But Moon (karaka for mind) is debilitated.] Regards, Medan

Dear Shri Sasisekharan, I am very grateful for the time you must have spent on studying the chart and giving such a detailed reply. It is most instructive. There is one clarification - the trimsamsa lagna is Pisces [Moon in Taurus; Sun, Saturn, Rahu, Ketu & Mars in Gemini; Merc in Libra; Venus in Capricorn; and Jupiter in Aquarius]. According to this, Mercury is in Badhak's house in Trimsamsa also, and is aspected by Rahu. The Shashtamsa lagna is Capricorn. [Venus in Aquarius; Jupiter in Taurus Sun in Cancer; Saturn, Mars, Rahu & Ketu in Leo; Mercury in Virgo;& Moon in Libra.] At the end of 1985, the native was all right. She was physically very ill in the middle of 1986 and critically ill during most of 1987. The mental illness became manifest in December 1993, during Rahu dasa and Venus sub-dasa. The mental state of the native improved from 1998 onwards (but never normal), and due to an unexpected side-effect of a emdicine, it became seriously bad from Aug 2006 to September 2007. I would be very, very grateful if you could throw some light on whether this person will progress towards the better from now on, or will she keep relapsing, or will she remain chronically ill? How far will Moon's exaltation in Rasi and Trimsamsa help? Regards, Medan

As you have requested, I am sending the details of some people who have mental illness, three of them very serious. A. Born on Nov.4, 1960; 23h 20m (LMT), Tehran, Iran [Ascandant 19 degrees 47 minutes Cancer] B. Born on Oct. 21, 1961; 23h 15m (IST), Calcutta [Asc is 7 degrees, 41 minutes Cancer] C. Born on Feb.18, 1974; 9h 22m (LMT) Berhampore (West Bengal), India [Ascendant 8 degrees 7 minutes Aries] D. Born on Dec.14, 1970; 8h 48m (LMT), Srinagar [Asc is 15 degrees 38 minutes Sag] I'd be grateful if you enlightened me as to why this should be so, and what is the prospect of their (especially A's) overcoming their illness. (In the case of B, there is no connection of 5th lord with 6th , but it is aspected by 8th lord, and the 5th lord is also combust.) Thank you.