Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 Dear Era 197 is one of my favourite Talks; have worked with it many times over the past 40 years. Best, M C-M , " Era " <mi_nok wrote: > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, ... > kindly help us towards realisation?'' > > M.: How do you meditate? > > D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the > breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed > further. > > M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only > intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to > guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed > out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates > all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am > that' there must be the 'I'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. " Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? Thank you. Warm regards.... D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source it will vanish. _____ On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows Monday, June 02, 2008 8:46 PM Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi Dear Era 197 is one of my favourite Talks; have worked with it many times over the past 40 years. Best, M C-M @ <%40> , " Era " <mi_nok wrote: > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, ... > kindly help us towards realisation?'' > > M.: How do you meditate? > > D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the > breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed > further. > > M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only > intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to > guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed > out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates > all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am > that' there must be the 'I'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 What a great question indeed to meditate on! Yosy hints at the answer poetically, I believe. Over the summer, I am trying to improve the community site/blog so that more members can join and become authors. Namaste and love to all Harsha , " NoName " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, > > > > Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the > following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not > eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " > > Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the > obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be > hidden. " > > > > Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be > eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Warm regards.... > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 Michael Bowes: > " Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the > following excerpt " No. The Talk is self-explanatory and needs no comment or explanation. MC-M , " NoName " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, > > Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the > following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not > eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " > > Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the > obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be > hidden. " > Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be > eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? ...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 , " MIchael Cape-Meadows " <ramanatmosphere wrote: " Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon > the following excerpt " > No. > The Talk is self-explanatory and needs no comment or explanation. > MC-M Dear Michael, greetings: Allow me to be a little surprised with your answer to this, to my eyes, honest request. The fact of Supremem Existence is also Self-Explanatory; but humanity needed The Vedas, The Bible, The Buddhist Sutras, Koran, Khabala, etc.. to " explain " WHY is " self-explanatory " (nice paradox, right?). Lao-Tzu wrote in the first verse of The Tao-Te-King that " The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao " and then spent the rest 80 verses describing it!! What is Self-explanatory for one may not be for another, otherwise not only these Lists wouldn't exist but " we " would be all self-realized (that actually " WE " are!!!). Best regards, Mouna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 Indeed! It is all explained in the Talk itself - a wonderful Talk. Ramana is always quite clear in what he says. G. , " MIchael Cape-Meadows " <ramanatmosphere wrote: > > Michael Bowes: > > " Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon > the > > following excerpt " > No. > The Talk is self-explanatory and needs no comment or explanation. > MC-M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2008 Dear NoName, You asked an excellent question to which you already know the answer. However, since no one wishes to answer it, I will answer it. When Ramana Maharshi says, " How can the 'I' eliminate itself, he is indicating that the very effort to eliminate the 'I' becomes the hindrance. In fact, the Sage of Arunachala often uses this theme to point out that such an effort only amounts to the thief pretending to be the policeman to capture itself. On the other hand, you point out that Sri Ramana says that " The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. " There is no contradiction. Sri Ramana is simply stating a fact. The wrong 'I' is simply the wrong identification of the 'I " with the body. So what does one do? How does one remove the wrong `I'? The truth is that one has no power to remove the wrong 'I'. One can make a sincere effort, but it can only take one so far. Sri Ramana used to say that there is only so much we can do. After a certain point, the higher power itself takes over and does the rest. The 'I' does not remove itself. It simply gets swallowed by the Heart and the nature and core of reality as Bliss Supreme resting in its own nature is revealed clearly. It is a Self-Revelation. Self-Bliss. The ancients called it Sat-Chit-Ananda The more one struggles, the more one gets caught in the trap of the mind. Just like Houdini knew how to relax to get out of locks and bondage while under water, a devotee of great maturity does not struggle but relaxes. In surrendering one's life to the Lord of the Heart, one becomes the Heart It Self. To not mind the mind, to not mind the 'I', to not judge this way or that way is the way of a spiritually mature sage. Sri Ramana taught Paul Brunton to practice Sahaj Samadhi from the beginning. To simply remain aware of the Grace that is ever present is the way. To be completely natural in body and mind and be aware, just to be, is enough. At this level of surrender, blessings pour forth from all directions, and Self is Realized as our own nature without the least of effort. Self is the state of effortlessness. Therefore, effort cannot fully reveal it. Effort takes us only so far. The rest is up to the Guru. Namaste and love to all Harsha , " NoName " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, > > > > Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the > following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not > eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " > > Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the > obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be > hidden. " > > > > Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be > eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Warm regards.... > > > > D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. > How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? > > M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? > - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your > efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of > itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. > > D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? > > M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the > false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' > is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may > not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction > to realisation. > In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it > must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be > not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that > which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now > known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to > remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so > because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this > ignorance and all will be well. > The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it > will vanish. > The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up > automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The > body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body- consciousness. It > is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is > you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its > source it will vanish. > > > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows > Monday, June 02, 2008 8:46 PM > > Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi > > > > Dear Era > 197 is one of my favourite Talks; have worked with it many times over > the past 40 years. > Best, > M C-M > @ <%40> > , " Era " <mi_nok@> wrote: > > > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, ... > > kindly help us towards realisation?'' > > > > M.: How do you meditate? > > > > D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the > > breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed > > further. > > > > M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only > > intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to > > guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed > > out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates > > all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am > > that' there must be the 'I'. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2008 Dear Harshaji and All, For ONE who has found the source there are no contradictions. There is only Lila Rasa. Self... The Play, The Dance of Life.. Peace and Love to All _____ On Behalf Of harshaimtm Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:17 PM Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi Dear NoName, You asked an excellent question to which you already know the answer. However, since no one wishes to answer it, I will answer it. When Ramana Maharshi says, " How can the 'I' eliminate itself, he is indicating that the very effort to eliminate the 'I' becomes the hindrance. In fact, the Sage of Arunachala often uses this theme to point out that such an effort only amounts to the thief pretending to be the policeman to capture itself. On the other hand, you point out that Sri Ramana says that " The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. " There is no contradiction. Sri Ramana is simply stating a fact. The wrong 'I' is simply the wrong identification of the 'I " with the body. So what does one do? How does one remove the wrong `I'? The truth is that one has no power to remove the wrong 'I'. One can make a sincere effort, but it can only take one so far. Sri Ramana used to say that there is only so much we can do. After a certain point, the higher power itself takes over and does the rest. The 'I' does not remove itself. It simply gets swallowed by the Heart and the nature and core of reality as Bliss Supreme resting in its own nature is revealed clearly. It is a Self-Revelation. Self-Bliss. The ancients called it Sat-Chit-Ananda The more one struggles, the more one gets caught in the trap of the mind. Just like Houdini knew how to relax to get out of locks and bondage while under water, a devotee of great maturity does not struggle but relaxes. In surrendering one's life to the Lord of the Heart, one becomes the Heart It Self. To not mind the mind, to not mind the 'I', to not judge this way or that way is the way of a spiritually mature sage. Sri Ramana taught Paul Brunton to practice Sahaj Samadhi from the beginning. To simply remain aware of the Grace that is ever present is the way. To be completely natural in body and mind and be aware, just to be, is enough. At this level of surrender, blessings pour forth from all directions, and Self is Realized as our own nature without the least of effort. Self is the state of effortlessness. Therefore, effort cannot fully reveal it. Effort takes us only so far. The rest is up to the Guru. Namaste and love to all Harsha @ <%40> , " NoName " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, > > > > Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the > following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not > eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " > > Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the > obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be > hidden. " > > > > Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be > eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Warm regards.... > > > > D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. > How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? > > M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? > - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your > efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of > itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. > > D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? > > M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the > false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' > is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may > not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction > to realisation. > In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it > must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be > not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that > which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now > known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to > remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so > because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this > ignorance and all will be well. > The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it > will vanish. > The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up > automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The > body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body- consciousness. It > is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is > you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its > source it will vanish. > > > > _____ > > @ <%40> [@ <%40> ] > On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows > Monday, June 02, 2008 8:46 PM > @ <%40> > Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi > > > > Dear Era > 197 is one of my favourite Talks; have worked with it many times over > the past 40 years. > Best, > M C-M > @ <%40> > , " Era " <mi_nok@> wrote: > > > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, ... > > kindly help us towards realisation?'' > > > > M.: How do you meditate? > > > > D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the > > breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed > > further. > > > > M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only > > intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to > > guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed > > out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates > > all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am > > that' there must be the 'I'. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2008 Dear Harsha, & nbsp; Thank you for this succint posting. Another Divine Paradox- we must make the effort to eliminate the Ego through Self Enquiry and Surrender- knowing in the end that is only Guru's Grace, which will deliver the coup de grace. & nbsp; All love to all, & nbsp; Alan --- On Tue, 3/6/08, harshaimtm & lt;harsha & gt; wrote: harshaimtm & lt;harsha & gt; Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi Tuesday, 3 June, 2008, 11:16 PM Dear NoName, You asked an excellent question to which you already know the answer. However, since no one wishes to answer it, I will answer it. When Ramana Maharshi says, " How can the 'I' eliminate itself, he is indicating that the very effort to eliminate the 'I' becomes the hindrance. In fact, the Sage of Arunachala often uses this theme to point out that such an effort only amounts to the thief pretending to be the policeman to capture itself. On the other hand, you point out that Sri Ramana says that " The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. " There is no contradiction. Sri Ramana is simply stating a fact. The wrong 'I' is simply the wrong identification of the 'I " with the body. So what does one do? How does one remove the wrong `I'? The truth is that one has no power to remove the wrong 'I'. One can make a sincere effort, but it can only take one so far. Sri Ramana used to say that there is only so much we can do. After a certain point, the higher power itself takes over and does the rest. The 'I' does not remove itself. It simply gets swallowed by the Heart and the nature and core of reality as Bliss Supreme resting in its own nature is revealed clearly. It is a Self-Revelation. Self-Bliss. The ancients called it Sat-Chit-Ananda The more one struggles, the more one gets caught in the trap of the mind. Just like Houdini knew how to relax to get out of locks and bondage while under water, a devotee of great maturity does not struggle but relaxes. In surrendering one's life to the Lord of the Heart, one becomes the Heart It Self. To not mind the mind, to not mind the 'I', to not judge this way or that way is the way of a spiritually mature sage. Sri Ramana taught Paul Brunton to practice Sahaj Samadhi from the beginning. To simply remain aware of the Grace that is ever present is the way. To be completely natural in body and mind and be aware, just to be, is enough. At this level of surrender, blessings pour forth from all directions, and Self is Realized as our own nature without the least of effort. Self is the state of effortlessness. Therefore, effort cannot fully reveal it. Effort takes us only so far. The rest is up to the Guru. Namaste and love to all Harsha , " NoName " & lt;aumshanti@. .. & gt; wrote: & gt; & gt; Dear Michael Cape-Meadows, & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Due to your familiarity with this particular talk please comment upon the & gt; following excerpt. For on the one hand the Maharshi says: " You need not & gt; eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? " & gt; & gt; Yet in the next answer the Maharshi says: " The wrong 'I' is the & gt; obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be & gt; hidden. " & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Would you try to explain why the Maharshi says the " .wrong 'I'. " need not be & gt; eliminated, yet in the next answer says that it " .has to be removed. " ? & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Thank you. & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Warm regards.... & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. & gt; How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? & gt; & gt; M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? & gt; - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your & gt; efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of & gt; itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. & gt; & gt; D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? & gt; & gt; M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the & gt; false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' & gt; is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may & gt; not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction & gt; to realisation. & gt; In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. & gt; Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it & gt; must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be & gt; not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that & gt; which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now & gt; known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to & gt; remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so & gt; because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this & gt; ignorance and all will be well. & gt; The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it & gt; will vanish. & gt; The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up & gt; automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The & gt; body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body- consciousness. It & gt; is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is & gt; you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its & gt; source it will vanish. & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; _____ & gt; & gt; [] & gt; On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows & gt; Monday, June 02, 2008 8:46 PM & gt; & gt; Re: Talks with Ramana Maharshi & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Dear Era & gt; 197 is one of my favourite Talks; have worked with it many times over & gt; the past 40 years. & gt; Best, & gt; M C-M & gt; @ & lt;HarshaSatsa ngh%40 s.com & gt; & gt; . com, " Era " & lt;mi_nok@ & gt; wrote: & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, ... & gt; & gt; kindly help us towards realisation? '' & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; M.: How do you meditate? & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the & gt; & gt; breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed & gt; & gt; further. & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only & gt; & gt; intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to & gt; & gt; guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed & gt; & gt; out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates & gt; & gt; all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am & gt; & gt; that' there must be the 'I'. & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 9, 2008 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrivedthis day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: "Bhagavan! We have beenspiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books onphilosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, YogaVasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc. We try to meditate, but there is noprogress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can youkindly help us towards realisation?''M.: How do you meditate?D.: I begin to ask myself "Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', thebreath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceedfurther.M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is onlyintellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only toguide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointedout. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminatesall the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I amthat' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughtsarise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root ispulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek theroot 'I', question yourself "Who am I?''; find out its source. Then allthese will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever.D.: How to do it?M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and inwakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. Thereis always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise do you deny your existence? Youdo not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is.D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now.How to eliminate this wrong 'I'?M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself?- All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Yourefforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care ofitself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so?M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or thefalse 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I'is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' maynot be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstructionto realisation.In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised.Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, itmust take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation benot eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not thatwhich must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not nowknown due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is toremove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be sobecause of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over thisignorance and all will be well.The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and itwill vanish.The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises upautomatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. Thebody-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. Itis done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It isyou who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking itssource it will vanish.D.: Then, will there be bliss?M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relatingto the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature isBliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance forBliss to be freed.D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individualand God?M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after theadvent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? Youexisted in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be realshould they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does thebody say 'I am body'? You say, "This is the world'', "this is body'' andso on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are andthere will be an end of all your doubts.D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? Wesee realised beings acting like others.M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation,if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves.Why do you worry about them?In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appeardifferent from the Self.D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us indifficulties? Why did He create us?M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties?It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappearsthere will be no one to say that God created this or that.That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I amnot'?Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'. Onedoes not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or abuffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am aman'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence andrealisation.23rd January, 1937http://www.beezone.com/Ramana/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 11, 2008 Dear Gloria Lee'ji Will you check whethr this sentence Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. is realy Ignorance is now hiding that Bliss. Thanking you, Sarma. , " Gloria Lee " <gleelee wrote: > > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived > this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: " Bhagavan! We have been > spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on > philosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga > Vasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc. We try to meditate, but there is no > progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you > kindly help us towards realisation?'' > > M.: How do you meditate? > > D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the > breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed > further. > > M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only > intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to > guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed > out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates > all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am > that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the > 'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughts > arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root is > pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the > root 'I', question yourself " Who am I?''; find out its source. Then all > these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever. > > D.: How to do it? > > M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in > wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There > is always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You > do not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is. > > D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. > How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? > > M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? > - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your > efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of > itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. > > D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? > > M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the > false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' > is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may > not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction > to realisation. > In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it > must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be > not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that > which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now > known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to > remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so > because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this > ignorance and all will be well. > The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it > will vanish. > The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up > automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The > body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It > is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is > you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its > source it will vanish. > > D.: Then, will there be bliss? > > M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating > to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is > Bliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for > Bliss to be freed. > > D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individual > and God? > > M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after the > advent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You > existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real > should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the > 'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does the > body say 'I am body'? You say, " This is the world'', " this is body'' and > so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and > there will be an end of all your doubts. > > D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We > see realised beings acting like others. > > M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, > if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. > Why do you worry about them? > In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear > different from the Self. > > D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in > difficulties? Why did He create us? > > M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? > It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappears > there will be no one to say that God created this or that. > That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I am > not'? > Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'. One > does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a > buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am a > man'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence and > realisation. > 23rd January, 1937 > > http://www.beezone.com/Ramana/ > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 11, 2008 Thank you very much for noticing and bringing this mistake to our attention. You are correct, of course. I checked the " Talks " . Typing errors do happen when material is put onto a website, and then copied from there. Gloria , " dvnsarma " <dvnsarma wrote: > > Dear Gloria Lee'ji > > Will you check whethr this sentence > > Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. > > is realy > Ignorance is now hiding that Bliss. > > Thanking you, > Sarma. > > , " Gloria Lee " <gleelee@> wrote: > > > > > > 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived >snip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2009 The Realization is the result of the Master's Grace more than teachings, lectures, meditation, etc. They are only secondary aids, whereas the former is the primary and essential cause. It is the ego which..... suffers from the perplexity of apparent paradoxes. Find out who makes the inquires and the Self will be found. --recorded Jan, 7th, 1935-- ************ from the book, " Talks with Ramana Maharshi " InnerDirections Publishing Second Revised Edition, 2001 ISBN: 1-878019-00-7 ************* " Talks " is the living voice of the greatest Sage of the 20th century. " --Ken Wilber-- *********** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
