The Meaning of "Tatastha s'akti"? - Page 2

bhaktajan · **Hey Every one theirs a new Guru in Town -** 07-25-2008, 01:16 PM

And he says that the origin of the soul is a bright light!

So in-conceivable!

Kulapavana · 07-25-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

And he says that the origin of the soul is a bright light!

So in-conceivable!

In case you forgot: That 'bright light' from which we come from is Krsna.

<CENTER>Chapter 14. The Yoga of the Supreme Person</CENTER>

TEXT 27
brahmano hi pratisthaham
amrtasyavyayasya ca
sasvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikantikasya ca
SYNONYMS

brahmanah--of the impersonal brahmajyoti; hi--certainly; pratistha--the rest; aham--I am; amrtasya--of the immortal; avyayasya--of the imperishable; ca--also; sasvatasya--of the eternal; ca--and; dharmasya--of the constitutional position; sukhasya--happiness; aikantikasya--ultimate; ca--also.

TRANSLATION

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal.

Vigraha · 10:48 AM

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by bhaktajan
And he says that the origin of the soul is a bright light!

So in-conceivable!
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Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Kulapavana

In case you forgot: That 'bright light' from which we come from is Krsna.
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Srila Prabhupada – “Existence in the impersonal Brahman (the bright light) is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the Brahman effulgence (bright light), they are also in the fallen condition. So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970.
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Srila Prabhupada – “"Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition in the Brahmajyoti also known as the 'bright light'), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami
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Srila Prabhupada – “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world.” 4.28.54 <o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – "In the spiritual world both, the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world". (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

Srila Prabhupada – "However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.’ (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)
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Srila Prabhupada – “Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi–perfection of one’s constitutional position’. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is
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Srila Prabhupada – “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968 <o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down from Vaikuntha by misusing his little independence. .., that if you become president, you are secure”. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada - “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both, the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world.
Srila Prabhupada – “However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “Everyone has dormant Krishna-bhakti — love for Krishna — and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107)<o:p></o:p>
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All descriptions of the marginal living entity as spiritual spark, atoms, molecules, or rays of sunshine in the 'bright light' or Brahmajyoti are also further clarified by Srila Prabhupada.

Here he explains that originally (And in a permanant state of originality)all living entities have a constitutional bodily source as clearly described below -<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna, the impersonal Brahman is the expansive effulgence (bright light) of His transcendental body, or that Paramatma is His all-pervading plenary expansion as the Supersoul". Sri Isopanisad Mantra Twelve

Srila Prabhupada – “They cannot understand that Krsna has an eternal form of perfect bliss and knowledge and that they also have an eternal spiritual identity” Srila Prabhupada’s Sri Isopanisad Mantra Twelve
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Srila Prabhupada – “Within this effulgence (bright light) there are innumerable spiritual planets, and they are known as the Vaikuntha planets. Each and every Vaikuntha planet is many, many times bigger than the biggest universe within the material world, and in each of them there are innumerable inhabitants who look exactly like Lord Visnu.” (Bhag. 1.14.36)
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Srila Prabhupada – “These inhabitants are known as the Maha-paurusikas, or persons directly engaged in the service of the Lord. They are happy in those planets and are without any kind of misery, and they live perpetually in full youthfulness, enjoying life in full bliss and knowledge without fear of birth, death, old age or disease, and without the influence of kala, eternal time.” (Bhag. 1.14.36)<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “We can again revive our brightness and shine with the Supreme Person. As the sun and the sunshine, they are together shining, there is light, similarly, when we are again posted in our own constitutional position, Krsna (Vigraha) is LIKE the sun and we are shining particles, (Also vigraha which means eternal form) then our life is successful. ” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.35 – Hawaii, January 28, 1974
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Srila Prabhupada – “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha Gitopanisad by Srila Prabhupada Part Two
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Srila Prabhupada – “The living entities are not without spiritual senses. Every living being in his original, spiritual form has all the senses, which are now material, being covered by the body and mind. Activities of the material senses are perverted reflections of spiritual pastimes.” Sri Ishopanishad, Verse 11
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Srila Prabhupada – “These are the secrets of the Acharyas. Sometimes, they conceal the real purpose of the Vedas–explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes, they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control.” Cc. Madhya, 25.42
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Srila Prabhupada – “The word varnam refers to the luster of one’s original identity. The original luster of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original luster of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], is the luster of ānanda, or pleasure. Ānandamayo bhyāsāt. Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
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Srila Prabhupada – “Every living entity has the right to become ānandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “So when someone asks, when did we come into contact with the material nature?” The answer is that we have not come into contact. By the influence of the material energy we THINK that we are in contact”. Tokyo in 1972 Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. We have simply created a situation. Rather, we have not created a situation; Krishna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, Krishna has given an opportunity: “All right. You want to imitate? You want to be an imitation king on the stage’- Tokyo in 1972 Srila Prabhupada
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Srila Prabhupada – “In the Śrī Caitanya Caritamrta the nitya-baddha condition of the marginal living entity is clearly described. In the following quotes - ”
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Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, “My dear Rūpa, please listen to Me. It is not possible to describe devotional service completely; therefore I am just trying to give you a synopsis of the symptoms of devotional service” Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.137
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Then Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu then went on to explain the jiva’s fall down and being covered within the mahat-tattva (material creation) only.
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Srila Prabhupada – “Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ‘the ocean of the transcendental mellows of devotional service is so big that no one can estimate its length and breadth. However, just to help you taste it, I am describing but one drop. In this universe there are limitless living entities in 8,400,000 species, and all are wandering within this universe”. “Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.138- 142<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada – “The length and breadth of the living entity is described as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is the original subtle nature of the living entity. If we divide the tip of a hair into a hundred parts and then take one of these parts and divide it again into a hundred parts that very fine division is the size of but one of the numberless living entities. They are all cit-kaṇa, particles of spirit, not matter. If we divide the tip of a hair into one hundred parts and then take one part and divide this into another one hundred parts, that ten-thousandth part is the dimension of the living entity. This is the verdict of the chief Vedic mantras. [Lord Kṛṣṇa says:] ‘Among minute particles, I am the living entity.“ Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.138- 142<o:p></o:p>
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The Impersonal feature of Brahman cannot exist as an independent effulgence because factually that effulgence IS the marginal living entities surrounding Krishna and His unlimited Purusha expansions, just as the rays of the sun surround the sun. (Analogy only, never to be taken literally because our original perpetual position is sat, cit ananda VIGRAHA)
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Only in the external realm outside the devotional active personal Vaikunthas and the central Goloka-Vrndavana planet, does ones forgetfulness of Krishna automatically cause the manifestation of the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.
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This dreaming like departure from Vaikuntha is the marginal living entities bodiless consciousness that is made up of thoughts, dreams and desires of self importance and grander.
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Such ‘awareness’ is expressed as a living individual spark of jiva consciousness that is often referred to as an atom or molecule living as individual sparks of light particles within an effulgence that is part of a collective that appear like individual rays of sunshine, which is the external impersonal aspect of Brahman, Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky.
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This consciousness projection is not like the impersonal projection we experience in the material worlds, the baddha-jiva has all the substance of the marginal living entity and is a real feature; therefore, each individual is 10,000 th the size of a tip of hair in our dimension of awareness.
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In this condition outside the active personal devotional Vaikunthas, the jiva tatastha can exists in both the material creation, or after becoming material exhausted and frustrated, they can enter the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.
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Dreamingin the mahat-tattva or being dreamless and dormant in the impersonal characteristics of the Brahmajyoti are both cases where the marginal living entities are ‘consciously’ no longer aware of Krishna and His eternal pastimes or their Svarupa body in Krsnaloka. <o:p></o:p>
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They have no memory or recollection of their own endless Krishna Conscious svarupa body that is perpetually situated in Vaikuntha. Therefore, just as in the absents of light there is darkness, similarly we find that the rebellious bodiless ‘dreaming’ consciousness, or lower self of the marginal living entities, are unable to see the transcendental ‘svarupa’ body they really are. <o:p></o:p>
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Therefore their existence is now described by the Vedas outside the divine realm of Vaikuntha, as particle of non-differentiated character due to the marginal living entities forgetfulness of Krishna and their own Svarupa body that is endlessly serving Krishna within the eternal 'PRESENT' realm beyond mundane material time of past and future that has no 'present'.

Vigraha · 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauragopala dasa

You remind me of the debate others were having on another thread and Beggar bagging the dream –avadis, as he called them. Eventually though he began to realize the difference between the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka, that has no past or future and the material creation, that has no ‘present’, only past and future. Many have realized that if Goloka is an eternal imperishable place, then we are there right now and always have been there, we just have to realize and stop 'dreaming' we are in the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada – “Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117.
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Srila Prabhupada – “By the grace of Krishna, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere, either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire". Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport

Srila Prabhupada – “However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life". Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport

Srila Prabhupada – “The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul’s choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport
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Srila Prabhupada - “Only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional state. Whoever is able to renovate such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31
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Srila Prabhupada: - “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there.

Srila Prabhupada: - “There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krishna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going.

Srila Prabhupada: - “Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”.
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Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya".
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Srila Prabhupada: - “Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore, many creations are coming and going". Letter to Madhuvisa 1972
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Srila Prabhupada: - “Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. (Nitya-baddha) But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krishna consciousness (reviving ones nitya-siddha memory)”.Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968
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Srila Prabhupada: - “Just like in a dream, we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken, we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krishna’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krishna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”. Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968
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Srila Prabhupada: - “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life (nitya baddha), and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness, (realize our nitya siddha eternal body) then this period is considered as a second". Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968

Srila Prabhupada: - “For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their Lila with Krishna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya (Impersonal Brahmajoyti) after being killed three times as demons. This Brahma-sayujya mukti is non-permanent”. Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968
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Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated? (nitya-siddha)…” You are not eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) but since we have become conditioned (nitya-baddha) on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it ONLY appears that we are eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,
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Srila Prabhupada – "This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.
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nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya
zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya
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Srila Prabhupada – "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered".

Srila Prabhupada – "So although you have fallen in this material world, and suffering the pangs of material existence, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9], on account of accepting this material body, still, Krishna personally comes, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. This is glanih, discrepancies. We are living this material existence, this is not real life. Real life is to become maha-bhagavata”. <o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada: “Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord”. - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

<o:p>Srila Prabhupada – “"Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition in the Brahmajyoti), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami

Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down from Vaikuntha by misusing his little independence. .., that if you become president, you are secure”. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)</o:p>

bhaktajan · 07-26-2008, 11:31 PM

Vigraha Prabhuji,

I agree with you that the Jiva has his/her sva-rupa awaiting him/her in a place that is beyond time [eternally present], etc etc etc.

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Please reconcile the Following statements by Srila Prabhupada.
I myself, can explain the terminology that Srila Prabhupada uses here,
but I think you're on a roll and
it may seem quite evident and in-line
with the references you have already cited.

Srila Prabhupada 'seems' to stating both sides of this argument--I feel there is no contradiction--but that is where I am approaching you to put it right so that the maxim will read coherently:
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Iso 16P:<o:p></o:p>
. . . The all-pervading feature of the Lord—which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jéva-çakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls—is known as Brahman. . . .<o:p></o:p>
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Iso 17P:<o:p></o:p>
. . . The identity of the living entity is never impersonal or formless; on the contrary, it is the material dress that is formless and that takes a shape according to the form of the indestructible person. No living entity is originally formless, as is wrongly thought by those with a poor fund of knowledge. . . . <o:p></o:p>
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. . . As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence. Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses. The desire for lordship is the material disease of the living being, for under the spell of sense enjoyment he transmigrates through the various bodies manifested in the material world. . . .<o:p></o:p>

Vigraha · 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhakajan

Vigraha Prabhuj, I agree with you that the Jiva has his/her sva-rupa awaiting him/her in a place that is beyond time [eternally present], etc etc etc.

Please reconcile the Following statements by Srila Prabhupada.
I myself, can explain the terminology that Srila Prabhupada uses here,
but I think you're on a roll and
it may seem quite evident and in-line
with the references you have already cited.

Srila Prabhupada 'seems' to stating both sides of this argument--I feel there is no contradiction--but that is where I am approaching you to put it right so that the maxim will read coherently:
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Iso 16P:<o:p></o:p>
. . . The all-pervading feature of the Lord—which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jéva-çakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls—is known as Brahman. . . .<o:p></o:p>
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Iso 17P:<o:p></o:p>
. . . The identity of the living entity is never impersonal or formless; on the contrary, it is the material dress that is formless and that takes a shape according to the form of the indestructible person.

No living entity is originally formless, as is wrongly thought by those with a poor fund of knowledge. . . .
. . . As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence.

Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses.

The desire for lordship is the material disease of the living being, for under the spell of sense enjoyment he transmigrates through the various bodies manifested in the material world. . . .<o:p></o:p>

Nice understanding on this secret of all secrets about our origin?
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The entire creation of Lord Krsna is simultaneously one and different as taught by Lord Caitanya.
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Every living entity that is a so-called ‘spark in the effulgence of the Brahmajyoti’, actually has an interminable and timeless Svarupa body within the ‘eternal present’, even though it may appear the living entity is in or even originates from the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.
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Could it be both ides of the argument are right??<o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada however, took it further in his 1972 letter to the Aussi’s by saying everyone’s ‘Svarupa’ is also in place and always has been there within that ‘eternal present’ of Goloka.

What he means when he says we all originate from Goloka, is only there in Krsnaloka we find the full nitya-siddha-svarupa’ potential of all marginal living entities that has actually always been there.

Even though it appears to many devotees like Srila Sridar Maharaj and Srila Narayana Maharaj and their disciples and grand disciples, that we all originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti effulgence, it is obvious that even before that, we ARE with Krsna in His pastimes in Goloka Vrndavana.
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The idea that the jiva soul's originate in it’s self has flaws because the jiva’s have no origin and were never created and certainly did not originate from a ‘unadorned expanse of consciousness’ in the Brahmajyoti. As Prabhupada says, before that we were with Krsna
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This understanding is beyond the concept of time and really is inconceivable to our material conditioning.
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However, it is very clear Srila Prabhupada’s understanding of this is way more advanced than what his Gaudiya matha Godbrothers, their disciples and grand disciples are offering to the world in their teachings.
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Clearly, Srila Prabhupada disagrees with them by saying that basically our svarupa body is constantly, continually and endlessly there in Goloka due to the absents of past and future in a devotional reality we know as the 'eternal present'

Therefore, that IS our eternal constitutional position where we are always serving Krsna, even if we imagine we are in the material creation or further imagine, think or have the dreamless dream of ‘thinking’ we are a impersonal spark or a plain inactive sheet of individual consciousness in the Brahmajyoti, as Srila Sridar Maharaj etc teaches.
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada - "This material creation is the spirit soul's dream, all existence in this world is the dream of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present, and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

Svarupa · 07-29-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vigraha

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
However, it is very clear Srila Prabhupada’s understanding of this is way more advanced than what his Gaudiya matha Godbrothers, their disciples and grand disciples are offering to the world in their teachings.
<o:p></o:p>
Clearly, Srila Prabhupada disagrees with them by saying that basically our svarupa body is constantly, continually and endlessly there in Goloka due to the absents of past and future in a devotional reality we know as the 'eternal present'

Therefore, that IS our eternal constitutional position where we are always serving Krsna, even if we imagine we are in the material creation or further imagine, think or have the dreamless dream of ‘thinking’ we are a impersonal spark or a plain inactive sheet of individual consciousness in the Brahmajyoti, as Srila Sridar Maharaj etc teaches.

Srila Prabhupada's Relationship with Sridhara Swami

BY: PAYONIDHI DASA

Oct 4, CANADA (SUN) — First, I'd like to mention there is a GBC rule that advises devotees not to find fault with Srila Sridhara Swami. Obviously he was a great soul, a Godbrother to Srila Prabhupada, and a confidential servant of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada.

Some may agree or disagree with him on various matters, like some devotees believe he introduced the Zonal Acarya system.

He may have meant well, not knowing that these 11-12 gurus were not qualified for this high position, whereas Srila Prabhupada may have wanted them to take a more humble position. But the GBC wisely concluded that no one should commit offenses to Sridhara Swami.

It is a resolution passed in the 90's.

I also want to mention that when Sridhara Swami heard Srila Prabhupada had found some faults with him, he smiled and said: "Swami Maharaja was kind to chastise me". The rest of us do not like to hear anything to diminish "our so-called glories."

We can stay in ISKCON and do not need to join any other matha as Srila Prabhupada asked us to stay in ISKCON, but it should be mentioned that Srila Prabhupada was close friends with his Godbrothers Kesava Maharaja, who was Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa guru, and also Sridhara Swami.

When Gaudiya Matha was falling apart after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada, he dealt not much with the rest of the Gaudiya Matha or Gaudiya Samiti.

Actually Srila Prabhupada was one of the founders of Gaudiya Samiti. Though he was not actively involved, he helped give scope together with Kesava Maharaja, who became the Acarya there, in what is now that institution.

Also I would like to mention that Srila Prabhupada helped finance a wonderful Vaisnava verse book that Sridhara Swami published ( I forgot the name; it is in the Prabhupada Lilamrita), and of course Srila Prabhupada helped start the Gaudiya Matha in Allahabhad during Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada's time, where Sridhara Swami was running this temple.

And seeing how great a manager Srila Prabhupada was, he recommended to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada that "Abhay Caran Prabhu" become the manager of Gaudiya Matha in Bombay.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada said to leave him out of management saying, "In due course of time he will do everything", predicting Srila Prabhupada's global preaching success.

An interesting Room Conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Sridhara Swami can also be found from March 17, 1973

bhaktajan · 08-02-2008, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Vigraha
Nice understanding on this secret of all secrets about our origin!!!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
The entire creation of Lord Krsna is simultaneously one and different as taught by Lord Caitanya.
<o:p></o:p>
Every living entity that is a so-called ‘spark in the effulgence of the Brahmajyoti’, actually has an interminable and timeless Svarupa body within the ‘eternal present’, even though it may appear the living entity is in or even originates from the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.

Svarupa · 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

Nice understanding on this secret of all secrets about our origin!!!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
The entire creation of Lord Krsna is simultaneously one and different as taught by Lord Caitanya.
<o:p></o:p>
Every living entity that is a so-called ‘spark in the effulgence of the Brahmajyoti’, actually has an interminable and timeless Svarupa body within the ‘eternal present’, even though it may appear the living entity is in or even originates from the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.

Actually for those who can comprehend, this IS the humble answer to the 'origin of the jiva' as told by Srila Prabhupada, also explained above in a very simple and clear way, beyond any fancy poetic word jugglery and pages and pages of philosophy.

The answer is simply given in a few short sentences as explained above however, the dust on the mirror of the heart must be cleared away by chanting Hare Krsna and selfless service to the devotees so one can see this truth of who they really are.

Sarva gattah · 09-19-2008, 09:04 AM

We Have Also Come Down from Vaikuntha

BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA <CENTER>
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.</CENTER>

Sep 16, USA (SUN) — We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago, try and understand.

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973

In the Spiritual Sky exists Krsna’s Supreme Planet Goloka Vrndavana surrounded by the Vaikuntha Planets established in the ‘eternal present’ where there is no past or future that has the side effect of permeance and eternal youth where nothing perishes and reality is permanent

<CENTER>
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.</CENTER>

Also existing sometimes in the Spiritual Sky, taking up 25% of ‘eternity’ is the mahat tattva or material creation where there is no ‘present’, only past and future that has the side effect of decay and impermanent where ‘reality’ is only temporary.

The following gives details and the final proof, as clearly explained by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, that all jiva/souls or marginal living entities are originally (Which means eternally when referring to the Kingdom of God), are actually serving Krishna perpetually, as their full devotional bodily form, right at this very moment.

However, presently, due to the free will and choice all marginal living entities have, some have chosen to forget their real eternal vigraha (form) svarupa (devotional body) that is always present in Krsnaloka, just like one forgets their present biological body while dreaming.

This means all living entities have an imperishable bodily form called ‘svarupa’ which is the full potential and expression of their character eternal present in Goloka even if they are ‘dreaming or thinking’ they are in the material creation (mahat tattva).

Many have laughed when told their existence in the material world is just the dream state they have created.

However, if they care to read Prabhupada’s books, they will find it is ALL their dream ONLY EXPERIENCED by 'entering' unlimited dream identities or vessels within the dreams of Maha Vishnu -

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vis?n?u, as the Brahma-samhita describes -

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta- “This material world is created by the dreaming of Mah?-Vis?n?u. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83. http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en

Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

Srila Prabhupada - “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction

Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being. has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction.

Srila Prabhupada - “We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one . . . the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity “.Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction.

Srila Prabhupada - “The Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction.

Srila Prabhupada - “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Germany, June 22, 1974

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)

Srila Bhaktivinoda Takura - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.

Srila Prabhupada - “Existence in the impersonal Brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the Brahman effulgence, they are also in the fallen condition. So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970.

Srila Prabhupada said to me in the Sydney Temple room in early 1973, when he came in while I was cleaning. Srila Prabhupada had started ecstatically laughing when he saw I had put paintings of the Pancha tattva and Krsna and Balarama on the step of his Vyasa chair - “That’s not where the Lord goes”.

Then after a short silence he added,

Srila Prabhupada - “Soon you will understand, try to understand also YOUR real bodily form is ALWAYS in Vaikuntha”

Then Srila Prabhupada continued laughing at where I put these paintings while I cleaned the walls. At the time I realized the importance at what he said. It was many, many years later when the ‘origin of the jiva’ debate AGAIN started (Actually that debate started in 1972 and ended with Prabhupada’s words to me, at least as far as I was concerned on this subject, in 1973).

During the 1990s, I wondered what everyone was arguing about because Prabhupada has made it very clear that ALL marginal living entities have come down from Vaikuntha to the material world, not as their Svarupa body, but rather as a jiva baddha dream protrusion. The misleading book ‘Not even the leaves fall from Vaikuntha’ plus the teachings of both Srila Narayana Maharaj and Srila Sridar Maharaj, who I have heard both speak on this subject, are, with all due respect, NOT the teachings that Srila Prabhupada gave us on this subject.

This why I am so strongly convinced that presently we are only dreaming while our real bodily self actually NEVER leaves Goloka. Frankly, I do not care what anyone says on this subject, as I have already proven on so many threads on the Internet.

Many people, including several sannyasis and guru’s, have called me all kinds of names like ‘sleep avadi’ to ‘dream avadi’ however, due to that personal intimate wonderful personal association with my Spiritual Master His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada in 1973, with all humility, no one can ever take away from me what he said or convince me otherwise.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami

Actually we are all pure devotees, eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.

Try to understand what Prabhupada is telling us.

Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive .. as soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with this material world I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Revive in English simply means to regain or re-establish, or in this case, wake up from this material dream and remember who we really are as a eternal nitya siddha servant of Krishna. As soon as we understand that our svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka and that we have nothing to do with Maha-Vishnu's material world and His created bodily vessels our sub-conscious baddha-jiva condition is housed in, then we can understand we are simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all

Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada -"You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Hare Krsna

From your fallen servant, Gauragopala dasa

Svarupa · 10-06-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarva gattah

Many foolishly believe the jiva originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or keeps appearing from the body of Maha Vishnu every time He recreates the mahat tattva because Maha Vishnu's body is the origin of the soul however, that is incorrect<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The entire creation of Lord Krsna is simultaneously one and different as taught by Lord Caitanya. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Every living entity that is a so-called ‘spark in the effulgence of the Brahmajyoti’, actually has an interminable and timeless Svarupa body within the ‘eternal present’, even though it may appear the living entity is in or even originates from the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Actually for those who can comprehend, this IS the humble answer to the 'origin of the jiva' as told by Srila Prabhupada, also explained above in a very simple and clear way, beyond any fancy poetic word jugglery and pages and pages of philosophy. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The answer is simply given in a few short sentences as explained above however, the dust on the mirror of the heart must be cleared away by chanting Hare Krsna and selfless service to the devotees so one can see this truth of who they really are. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Existence in the impersonal Brahman (the bright light) is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the Brahman effulgence (bright light), they are also in the fallen condition. So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “"Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition in the Brahmajyoti also known as the 'bright light'), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world.” 4.28.54 <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – "In the spiritual world both, the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world". (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – "However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.’ (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi–perfection of one’s constitutional position’. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968 <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down from Vaikuntha by misusing his little independence. .., that if you become president, you are secure”. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada - “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both, the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Everyone has dormant Krishna-bhakti — love for Krishna — and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
All descriptions of the marginal living entity as spiritual spark, atoms, molecules, or rays of sunshine in the 'bright light' or Brahmajyoti are also further clarified by Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Here he explains that originally (And in a permanant state of originality)all living entities have a constitutional bodily source as clearly described below -<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna, the impersonal Brahman is the expansive effulgence (bright light) of His transcendental body, or that Paramatma is His all-pervading plenary expansion as the Supersoul". Sri Isopanisad Mantra Twelve<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “They cannot understand that Krsna has an eternal form of perfect bliss and knowledge and that they also have an eternal spiritual identity” Srila Prabhupada’s Sri Isopanisad Mantra Twelve<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Within this effulgence (bright light) there are innumerable spiritual planets, and they are known as the Vaikuntha planets. Each and every Vaikuntha planet is many, many times bigger than the biggest universe within the material world, and in each of them there are innumerable inhabitants who look exactly like Lord Visnu.” (Bhag. 1.14.36)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “These inhabitants are known as the Maha-paurusikas, or persons directly engaged in the service of the Lord. They are happy in those planets and are without any kind of misery, and they live perpetually in full youthfulness, enjoying life in full bliss and knowledge without fear of birth, death, old age or disease, and without the influence of kala, eternal time.” (Bhag. 1.14.36)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “We can again revive our brightness and shine with the Supreme Person. As the sun and the sunshine, they are together shining, there is light, similarly, when we are again posted in our own constitutional position, Krsna (Vigraha) is LIKE the sun and we are shining particles, (Also vigraha which means eternal form) then our life is successful. ” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.35 – Hawaii, January 28, 1974 <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha Gitopanisad by Srila Prabhupada Part Two<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “The living entities are not without spiritual senses. Every living being in his original, spiritual form has all the senses, which are now material, being covered by the body and mind. Activities of the material senses are perverted reflections of spiritual pastimes.” Sri Ishopanishad, Verse 11<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “These are the secrets of the Acharyas. Sometimes, they conceal the real purpose of the Vedas–explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes, they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control.” Cc. Madhya, 25.42<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “The word varnam refers to the luster of one’s original identity. The original luster of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original luster of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], is the luster of ānanda, or pleasure. Ānandamayo bhyāsāt. Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Every living entity has the right to become ānandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “So when someone asks, when did we come into contact with the material nature?” The answer is that we have not come into contact. By the influence of the material energy we THINK that we are in contact”. Tokyo in 1972 Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. We have simply created a situation. Rather, we have not created a situation; Krishna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, Krishna has given an opportunity: “All right. You want to imitate? You want to be an imitation king on the stage’- Tokyo in 1972 Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Srila Prabhupada – “In the Śrī Caitanya Caritamrta the nitya-baddha condition of the marginal living entity is clearly described. In the following quotes - ”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, “My dear Rūpa, please listen to Me. It is not possible to describe devotional service completely; therefore I am just trying to give you a synopsis of the symptoms of devotional service” Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.137 <o:p></o:p>

<CENTER>
We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago, try and understand.
</CENTER>

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973

In the Spiritual Sky exists Krsna’s Supreme Planet Goloka Vrndavana surrounded by the Vaikuntha Planets established in the ‘eternal present’ where there is no past or future that has the side effect of permeance and eternal youth where nothing perishes and reality is permanent

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Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.</CENTER>
Actually for those who can comprehend, this IS the humble answer to the 'origin of the jiva' as told by Srila Prabhupada, also explained above in a very simple and clear way, beyond any fancy poetic word jugglery and pages and pages of philosophy.

The answer is simply given in a few short sentences as explained above however, the dust on the mirror of the heart must be cleared away by chanting Hare Krsna and selfless service to the devotees so one can see this truth of who they really are.

The nitya-siddha-svarupa body is locked and secured perpetually within the 'eternal present, which is an eternal state of originality' that has no past and future. This means when one finishes their dreams within the material world and again become 'aware' of their full potential 'svarupa body, it is like waking up from a dream and finding themselves as the body they always were and always have been.

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973

Srila Prabhupada explains it this way: "There is nothing to be gained in Goloka, only regained". "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977