Guru Gita Vs 159 - ..... Multitude of the Gods and all places of pilgrimage

[Guest guest]

Very nice comments, Kalia.

 

Anyone who has shared the same space with Shree Maa and Swamiji knows

from experience what you mean (as well as the truth of this verse).

 

I have only been in the presence of two other saints, and neither have

affected me the way Shree Maa and Swamiji did when I saw them on tour.

Their bhaava was so strong it was a force, a bubble of grace that

established itself when they arrived, and left with them. I have

rarely felt more truly alive and at peace with myself than when in

their presence.

 

Truly blessed are they who abide always in the presence of the gurudeva.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:

>

> Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

>

>

>

> 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude, completely

pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of, the

Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

>

>

>

> Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with great

enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same always

no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever in

Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have taken

refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in Thy

will and make me Thy instrument."

>

>

>

> Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be outside

of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir reflects

the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in that

abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of the

Gods and Goddesses.

>

>

>

> Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

>

> How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

>

> There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using the

knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

>

> Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

>

>

>

> Kalia

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Sports

> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

hi kalia, here is what i have learned.

 

life is both short and long. it requires both patience and application

of knowledge.

 

don't waste time on personalities but get right down to the business

of spiritual development.

 

20 years can go by with little sign of progress. then there can be

nice jumps forward. there can also be an illusion of progress. best to

keep on moving ahead with or without acclaim.

 

everything is involved in your process. your quiet time, your noisy

times, all times, all places.

 

your heart, but also your mind, are required.

 

your hearing of god is required, but so is your own ability to discern

what is best.

 

your child like openess is requried, as well as your own maturity and

reasoning.

 

everything is required of us, if we want to move forward spiritually.

 

, Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:

>

> Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

>

>

>

> 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude, completely

pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of, the

Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

>

>

>

> Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with great

enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same always

no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever in

Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have taken

refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in Thy

will and make me Thy instrument."

>

>

>

> Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be outside

of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir reflects

the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in that

abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of the

Gods and Goddesses.

>

>

>

> Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

>

> How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

>

> There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using the

knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

>

> Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

>

>

>

> Kalia

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Sports

> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

hi henny

 

in my observation you and i as well as perhaps anyone living with a

100% western orientation is going to have moments of confusion on

this.

 

in india where people, at least traditional people, are saturated in

that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru on all levels at

once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being an emanation of shiva

in person.

 

in my opinion it is honorable to respect that questioning, not to hide

or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry into truth, seeking

an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in our dna from

ancient greece!

 

why i think it is a good thing to question ...

 

1. there are unscrupulous people who use this spiritual approach to

server their own needs for power -- this denies them a foothold; and,

 

2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the ultimate questions

about god and truth, we do not put our own discrimination to sleep, we

remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god places before us, always

learning.

 

steve

 

 

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

problems

> I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the Guru in

> bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I would

like

> to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone can

> help.

>

> My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> stability are important in this verse and in the previous one (see

the

> use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the Guru

> precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep forgetting

> (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru,

then,

> is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our true

> Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently.

How

> can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity in

our

> life, which is all life. That's the theory.

>

> Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want of a

> better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at least

> most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> consistency and stability in living the truth. And the experience

of

> their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth and

> purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

objects

> and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

>

> The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or the

> Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

truth.

> And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we

have

> two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we speak

of

> 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is the

> light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and Shree

Maa

> and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me to

> dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in

terms

> of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In meditation,

I

> see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and Swamiji

> sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they merge

into

> each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form, the

> presence of a person you experience when you actually meet someone,

is

> not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

instance,

> that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical terms

it

> is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who do

you

> speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is

there

> automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would ask

me

> 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know

what

> to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me, which is

> also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's attitude

has

> impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

>

> puzzled,

> Henny

>

>

>

> , Kali Kali <k

aliananda_saraswati@y.

> ..> wrote:

> >

> > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> >

> >

> >

> > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

completely

> pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of,

the

> Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> >

> >

> >

> > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with

great

> enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same

always

> no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

> simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever

in

> Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have

taken

> refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

> everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in

Thy

> will and make me Thy instrument."

> >

> >

> >

> > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

> simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

outside

> of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

reflects

> the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in that

> abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

> being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of the

> Gods and Goddesses.

> >

> >

> >

> > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> >

> > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> >

> > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using

the

> knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> >

> > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> >

> >

> >

> > Kalia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sports

> > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Henny dear,

 

I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left wondering

what is is you're really asking...

 

I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how Maa and

Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places and

merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the highest

sense it's true.

 

I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning to be

closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between you

and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple times.

 

They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the morning and

doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless Divine. In

the tattwas, all of these things having to do with individuality lay

below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things do not

disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not destroyed, it

is brought into its proper relationship with higher consciousness; it

serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of the

individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that makes

life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

 

I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual conundrum

lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever someone

praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No," or "You

honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that it is

not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine consciousness

which they are an expression of.

 

Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read that the

pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have experiences

of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a matter of

continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act of will,

in any case.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some problems

> I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the Guru in

> bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I would like

> to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone can

> help.

>

> My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> stability are important in this verse and in the previous one (see the

> use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the Guru

> precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep forgetting

> (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru, then,

> is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our true

> Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently. How

> can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity in our

> life, which is all life. That's the theory.

>

> Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want of a

> better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at least

> most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> consistency and stability in living the truth. And the experience of

> their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth and

> purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy objects

> and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

>

> The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or the

> Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us truth.

> And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have

> two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we speak of

> 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is the

> light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and Shree Maa

> and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me to

> dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in terms

> of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In meditation, I

> see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and Swamiji

> sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they merge into

> each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form, the

> presence of a person you experience when you actually meet someone, is

> not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for instance,

> that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical terms it

> is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who do you

> speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is there

> automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would ask me

> 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know what

> to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me, which is

> also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's attitude has

> impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

>

> puzzled,

> Henny

>

>

>

> , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> ..> wrote:

> >

> > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> >

> >

> >

> > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude, completely

> pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of, the

> Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> >

> >

> >

> > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with great

> enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same always

> no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

> simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever in

> Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have taken

> refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

> everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in Thy

> will and make me Thy instrument."

> >

> >

> >

> > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

> simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be outside

> of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir reflects

> the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in that

> abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

> being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of the

> Gods and Goddesses.

> >

> >

> >

> > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> >

> > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> >

> > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using the

> knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> >

> > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> >

> >

> >

> > Kalia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sports

> > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion and the need to

question. I thought about what you said and I think you're right, it

is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is also a personal

struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I surrender to the Guru'

in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the real thing, the

big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the process, I guess. And

while it is good to question because it can lead you further towards

truth, it can also make you go round in circles when the need to

question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you just have to take a

leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your back,

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...>

wrote:

> hi henny

>

> in my observation you and i as well as perhaps anyone living with a

> 100% western orientation is going to have moments of confusion on

> this.

>

> in india where people, at least traditional people, are saturated in

> that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru on all levels at

> once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being an emanation of

shiva

> in person.

>

> in my opinion it is honorable to respect that questioning, not to

hide

> or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry into truth,

seeking

> an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in our dna from

> ancient greece!

>

> why i think it is a good thing to question ...

>

> 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this spiritual approach to

> server their own needs for power -- this denies them a foothold;

and,

>

> 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the ultimate questions

> about god and truth, we do not put our own discrimination to sleep,

we

> remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god places before us,

always

> learning.

>

> steve

>

>

> , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > Dear Kalia and all,

> >

> > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> problems

> > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the Guru

in

> > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I would

> like

> > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone can

> > help.

> >

> > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one (see

> the

> > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

Guru

> > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

forgetting

> > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru,

> then,

> > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our true

> > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently.

> How

> > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity in

> our

> > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> >

> > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want of a

> > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

least

> > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the experience

> of

> > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth and

> > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> objects

> > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

> >

> > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or the

> > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

> truth.

> > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we

> have

> > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we speak

> of

> > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is the

> > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and Shree

> Maa

> > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me to

> > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in

> terms

> > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

meditation,

> I

> > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and Swamiji

> > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they merge

> into

> > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form, the

> > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

someone,

> is

> > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> instance,

> > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical terms

> it

> > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who do

> you

> > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is

> there

> > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would

ask

> me

> > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know

> what

> > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me, which

is

> > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's attitude

> has

> > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> >

> > puzzled,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> >

> > , Kali Kali <k

> aliananda_saraswati@y.

> > ..> wrote:

> > >

> > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> completely

> > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of,

> the

> > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with

> great

> > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same

> always

> > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

> > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever

> in

> > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have

> taken

> > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

> > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in

> Thy

> > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

> > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

> outside

> > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> reflects

> > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

that

> > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

> > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of

the

> > Gods and Goddesses.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > >

> > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > >

> > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using

> the

> > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > >

> > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Kalia

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sports

> > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Chrisji,

 

you are very observant.

> I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning to

be

> closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between you

> and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

times.

 

Yes, you are right. What's really going on is that I want to be closer

and don't know how. I see that now, but I did not realize this was the

real question. It is precisely because I understand that Shree Maa and

Swamiji embody the highest consciousness, that my defenses are up.

They scare me and I still want to get closer. The tricks of the mind..

 

The example of Swamiji liking eggplant was not meant to illustrate

that such a person cannot possibly be the true guru. I just tried to

say that I can imagine myself speaking to a guy loving his eggplant,

but I cannot imagine myself actually speaking to the one whose heart I

saw radiating light in a dream.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening,

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

(, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

> Henny dear,

>

> I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left

wondering

> what is is you're really asking...

>

> I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how Maa

and

> Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places and

> merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the

highest

> sense it's true.

>

> I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning to

be

> closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between you

> and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

times.

>

> They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the morning and

> doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless Divine. In

> the tattwas, all of these things having to do with individuality lay

> below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things do

not

> disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not destroyed, it

> is brought into its proper relationship with higher consciousness;

it

> serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of the

> individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that makes

> life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

>

> I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual

conundrum

> lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever someone

> praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No," or

"You

> honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

> humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that it

is

> not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine consciousness

> which they are an expression of.

>

> Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read that

the

> pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have

experiences

> of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a matter

of

> continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

> experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act of

will,

> in any case.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

>

>

> , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > Dear Kalia and all,

> >

> > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

problems

> > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the Guru

in

> > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I would

like

> > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone can

> > help.

> >

> > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one (see

the

> > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

Guru

> > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

forgetting

> > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru,

then,

> > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our true

> > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently.

How

> > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity in

our

> > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> >

> > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want of a

> > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

least

> > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the experience

of

> > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth and

> > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

objects

> > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

> >

> > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or the

> > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

truth.

> > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we

have

> > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we speak

of

> > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is the

> > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and Shree

Maa

> > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me to

> > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in

terms

> > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

meditation, I

> > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and Swamiji

> > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they merge

into

> > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form, the

> > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

someone, is

> > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

instance,

> > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical terms

it

> > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who do

you

> > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is

there

> > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would

ask me

> > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know

what

> > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me, which

is

> > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's attitude

has

> > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> >

> > puzzled,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> >

> > , Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> > ..> wrote:

> > >

> > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

completely

> > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of,

the

> > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with

great

> > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same

always

> > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

> > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever

in

> > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have

taken

> > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

> > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in

Thy

> > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

> > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

outside

> > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

reflects

> > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

that

> > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

> > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of

the

> > Gods and Goddesses.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > >

> > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > >

> > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using

the

> > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > >

> > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Kalia

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sports

> > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Henny,

 

Swami Satyananda of The Bihar School of Yoga wrote that it is actually

easier to attune one's self with the guru the less one has actual

physical contact. I don't know. I accept his word that it is true, but

it is hard for me too, to be open and vulnerable without that normal

kind of contact I am so used to depending on to evaluate and judge my

relationships with others. It really is a leap of faith.

 

Regarding the eggplant issue, I gather from your response that this is

not the issue with you, but it reminded me of a funny incident related

in Pandit Rajmani Tigunait's book At the Eleventh Hour. A young woman

was working on her doctoral dissertation on yoga and she wanted to

interview Swami Rama. During the interview Swamiji coughed a couple of

times and she thought, "Why is he coughing if he is a great yogi?"

Then Swamiji excused himself to go to the bathroom and she became

completely disillusioned. She asked him why, if he is perfected, that

he has to eat and go to the bathroom, to which Swamiji replied in a

gruff voice, What do you mean?" Whereupon she excused herself and

left. She was so disillusioned that she returned home and began a

campaign against Swami Rama because she was convinced by the fact that

he needed to eat and drink and go to the bathroom that he was a fake.

 

As Steve alluded to in his post, it is hard for us in the West to

relate to enlightened beings; we only really have one cultural

example, and he has been gone from the body for two thousand years.

People in the West, myself included, have some very strange ideas

about what it is to be enlightened.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> Chrisji,

>

> you are very observant.

>

> > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning to

> be

> > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between you

> > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> times.

>

> Yes, you are right. What's really going on is that I want to be closer

> and don't know how. I see that now, but I did not realize this was the

> real question. It is precisely because I understand that Shree Maa and

> Swamiji embody the highest consciousness, that my defenses are up.

> They scare me and I still want to get closer. The tricks of the mind..

>

> The example of Swamiji liking eggplant was not meant to illustrate

> that such a person cannot possibly be the true guru. I just tried to

> say that I can imagine myself speaking to a guy loving his eggplant,

> but I cannot imagine myself actually speaking to the one whose heart I

> saw radiating light in a dream.

>

> Anyway, thanks for listening,

>

> with love,

> Henny

>

>

> (, "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > Henny dear,

> >

> > I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left

> wondering

> > what is is you're really asking...

> >

> > I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how Maa

> and

> > Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places and

> > merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the

> highest

> > sense it's true.

> >

> > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning to

> be

> > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between you

> > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> times.

> >

> > They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the morning and

> > doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless Divine. In

> > the tattwas, all of these things having to do with individuality lay

> > below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things do

> not

> > disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not destroyed, it

> > is brought into its proper relationship with higher consciousness;

> it

> > serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of the

> > individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that makes

> > life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

> >

> > I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual

> conundrum

> > lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever someone

> > praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No," or

> "You

> > honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

> > humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that it

> is

> > not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine consciousness

> > which they are an expression of.

> >

> > Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read that

> the

> > pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have

> experiences

> > of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a matter

> of

> > continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

> > experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act of

> will,

> > in any case.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > >

> > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> problems

> > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the Guru

> in

> > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I would

> like

> > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone can

> > > help.

> > >

> > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one (see

> the

> > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

> Guru

> > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> forgetting

> > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru,

> then,

> > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our true

> > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently.

> How

> > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity in

> our

> > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > >

> > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want of a

> > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> least

> > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the experience

> of

> > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth and

> > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> objects

> > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

> > >

> > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or the

> > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

> truth.

> > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we

> have

> > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we speak

> of

> > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is the

> > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and Shree

> Maa

> > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me to

> > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in

> terms

> > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> meditation, I

> > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and Swamiji

> > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they merge

> into

> > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form, the

> > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> someone, is

> > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> instance,

> > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical terms

> it

> > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who do

> you

> > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is

> there

> > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would

> ask me

> > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know

> what

> > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me, which

> is

> > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's attitude

> has

> > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > >

> > > puzzled,

> > > Henny

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , Kali Kali

> <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> completely

> > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude of,

> the

> > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with

> great

> > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same

> always

> > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained truth,

> > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was ever

> in

> > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have

> taken

> > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is paramount

> > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego in

> Thy

> > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace, humility,

> > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

> outside

> > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> reflects

> > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

> that

> > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss of

> > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of

> the

> > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > >

> > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > >

> > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you using

> the

> > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > >

> > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Kalia

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sports

> > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

henny,

 

i hope you don't mind taking it even a step further with me ... a walk

in the park ...

 

there are all sorts of conflicts going on, this universe seems to be

all about that.

 

sometimes it is us within ourselves. other times we defend against

things that do not seem right.

 

the ego gives up a fight and all that, but sometimes i wonder, if that

is the place to set your cannon, so to speak.

 

that realm of the battle might not even be THE battle it might be a

distraction.

 

this is my opinion on course, no one else's. but the adventure is YOU

and GOD all the other stuff is along the way. god bless you to find

that, and me too, and everyone else.

 

having been in a cult in my 20's i NEVER encourage anyone to deny

their doubts. hear your doubts, engage them, engage EVERYTHING in the

process to grow.

 

its a little self abnegation to mistrust oneself too much, its better

to maybe trust more, or deeper. not only your guides but the YOU that

is already plugged in. pranams pranams pranams.

 

 

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion and the need to

> question. I thought about what you said and I think you're right,

it

> is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is also a

personal

> struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I surrender to the

Guru'

> in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the real thing, the

> big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the process, I guess.

And

> while it is good to question because it can lead you further

towards

> truth, it can also make you go round in circles when the need to

> question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you just have to

take a

> leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your back,

>

> with love,

> Henny

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...>

> wrote:

> > hi henny

> >

> > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps anyone living with

a

> > 100% western orientation is going to have moments of confusion on

> > this.

> >

> > in india where people, at least traditional people, are saturated

in

> > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru on all levels

at

> > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being an emanation of

> shiva

> > in person.

> >

> > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that questioning, not to

> hide

> > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry into truth,

> seeking

> > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in our dna from

> > ancient greece!

> >

> > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> >

> > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this spiritual approach

to

> > server their own needs for power -- this denies them a foothold;

> and,

> >

> > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the ultimate questions

> > about god and truth, we do not put our own discrimination to

sleep,

> we

> > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god places before us,

> always

> > learning.

> >

> > steve

> >

> >

> > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > >

> > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> > problems

> > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the

Guru

> in

> > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I

would

> > like

> > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone

can

> > > help.

> > >

> > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency and

> > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one

(see

> > the

> > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

> Guru

> > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> forgetting

> > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the Guru,

> > then,

> > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our

true

> > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth consistently.

> > How

> > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity

in

> > our

> > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > >

> > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want

of a

> > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> least

> > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the

experience

> > of

> > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth

and

> > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> > objects

> > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and remember.

> > >

> > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or

the

> > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

> > truth.

> > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji, we

> > have

> > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we

speak

> > of

> > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is

the

> > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and

Shree

> > Maa

> > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me

to

> > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them in

> > terms

> > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> meditation,

> > I

> > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and

Swamiji

> > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they

merge

> > into

> > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form,

the

> > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> someone,

> > is

> > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> > instance,

> > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical

terms

> > it

> > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person, who

do

> > you

> > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa is

> > there

> > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone would

> ask

> > me

> > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't know

> > what

> > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me,

which

> is

> > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's

attitude

> > has

> > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > >

> > > puzzled,

> > > Henny

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , Kali Kali <k

> > aliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> > completely

> > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude

of,

> > the

> > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and with

> > great

> > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits but

> > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the same

> > always

> > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained

truth,

> > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was

ever

> > in

> > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I have

> > taken

> > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is

paramount

> > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my ego

in

> > Thy

> > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace,

humility,

> > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

> > outside

> > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> > reflects

> > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

> that

> > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the same

> > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss

of

> > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode of

> the

> > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > >

> > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > >

> > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you

using

> > the

> > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > >

> > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Kalia

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sports

> > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

That's very cool what you report about what Swami Satyananda of The

BSY said about physical contact. My feeling is, it can be true. There

is a neat account of an older student of Ramana Maharshi's who Ramana

sent away so the student would become closer in spirit to the Guru. He

wouldn't even talk to his student, after decades of personal contact.

The guy became very profound, deepened his tapas, and became the guru

far more than he was when he was with Maharshi constantly, doing

building projects, etc.

 

 

, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

> Henny,

>

> Swami Satyananda of The Bihar School of Yoga wrote that it is

actually

> easier to attune one's self with the guru the less one has actual

> physical contact. I don't know. I accept his word that it is true,

but

> it is hard for me too, to be open and vulnerable without that normal

> kind of contact I am so used to depending on to evaluate and judge

my

> relationships with others. It really is a leap of faith.

>

> Regarding the eggplant issue, I gather from your response that this

is

> not the issue with you, but it reminded me of a funny incident

related

> in Pandit Rajmani Tigunait's book At the Eleventh Hour. A young

woman

> was working on her doctoral dissertation on yoga and she wanted to

> interview Swami Rama. During the interview Swamiji coughed a couple

of

> times and she thought, "Why is he coughing if he is a great yogi?"

> Then Swamiji excused himself to go to the bathroom and she became

> completely disillusioned. She asked him why, if he is perfected,

that

> he has to eat and go to the bathroom, to which Swamiji replied in a

> gruff voice, What do you mean?" Whereupon she excused herself and

> left. She was so disillusioned that she returned home and began a

> campaign against Swami Rama because she was convinced by the fact

that

> he needed to eat and drink and go to the bathroom that he was a

fake.

>

> As Steve alluded to in his post, it is hard for us in the West to

> relate to enlightened beings; we only really have one cultural

> example, and he has been gone from the body for two thousand years.

> People in the West, myself included, have some very strange ideas

> about what it is to be enlightened.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

>

> , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > Chrisji,

> >

> > you are very observant.

> >

> > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're

yearning to

> > be

> > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

you

> > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > times.

> >

> > Yes, you are right. What's really going on is that I want to be

closer

> > and don't know how. I see that now, but I did not realize this was

the

> > real question. It is precisely because I understand that Shree Maa

and

> > Swamiji embody the highest consciousness, that my defenses are

up.

> > They scare me and I still want to get closer. The tricks of the

mind..

> >

> > The example of Swamiji liking eggplant was not meant to

illustrate

> > that such a person cannot possibly be the true guru. I just tried

to

> > say that I can imagine myself speaking to a guy loving his

eggplant,

> > but I cannot imagine myself actually speaking to the one whose

heart I

> > saw radiating light in a dream.

> >

> > Anyway, thanks for listening,

> >

> > with love,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> > (, "Chris Kirner"

> > <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > > Henny dear,

> > >

> > > I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left

> > wondering

> > > what is is you're really asking...

> > >

> > > I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how

Maa

> > and

> > > Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places

and

> > > merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the

> > highest

> > > sense it's true.

> > >

> > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're

yearning to

> > be

> > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

you

> > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > times.

> > >

> > > They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the

morning and

> > > doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless

Divine. In

> > > the tattwas, all of these things having to do with

individuality lay

> > > below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things

do

> > not

> > > disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not

destroyed, it

> > > is brought into its proper relationship with higher

consciousness;

> > it

> > > serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of

the

> > > individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that

makes

> > > life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

> > >

> > > I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual

> > conundrum

> > > lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever

someone

> > > praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No,"

or

> > "You

> > > honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

> > > humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that

it

> > is

> > > not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine

consciousness

> > > which they are an expression of.

> > >

> > > Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read

that

> > the

> > > pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have

> > experiences

> > > of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a

matter

> > of

> > > continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

> > > experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act

of

> > will,

> > > in any case.

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > > Chris

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...>

wrote:

> > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> > problems

> > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the

Guru

> > in

> > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I

would

> > like

> > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone

can

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency

and

> > > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one

(see

> > the

> > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become'

the

> > Guru

> > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> > forgetting

> > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the

Guru,

> > then,

> > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our

true

> > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth

consistently.

> > How

> > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and

purity in

> > our

> > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > >

> > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want

of a

> > > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> > least

> > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the

experience

> > of

> > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth

and

> > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> > objects

> > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and

remember.

> > > >

> > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or

the

> > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach

us

> > truth.

> > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji,

we

> > have

> > > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we

speak

> > of

> > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is

the

> > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and

Shree

> > Maa

> > > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead

me to

> > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them

in

> > terms

> > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> > meditation, I

> > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and

Swamiji

> > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they

merge

> > into

> > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form,

the

> > > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> > someone, is

> > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> > instance,

> > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical

terms

> > it

> > > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person,

who do

> > you

> > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa

is

> > there

> > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone

would

> > ask me

> > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't

know

> > what

> > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me,

which

> > is

> > > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's

attitude

> > has

> > > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > > >

> > > > puzzled,

> > > > Henny

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Kali Kali

> > <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > > ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> > completely

> > > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude

of,

> > the

> > > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of

Pramahansa

> > > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and

with

> > great

> > > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits

but

> > > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the

same

> > always

> > > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained

truth,

> > > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was

ever

> > in

> > > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I

have

> > taken

> > > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is

paramount

> > > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my

ego in

> > Thy

> > > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace,

humility,

> > > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to

be

> > outside

> > > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> > reflects

> > > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity

in

> > that

> > > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the

same

> > > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the

bliss of

> > > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode

of

> > the

> > > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > > >

> > > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > > >

> > > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you

using

> > the

> > > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Kalia

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sports

> > > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Raj Steveji,

 

you wrote:

> its a little self abnegation to mistrust oneself too much, its

better

> to maybe trust more, or deeper. not only your guides but the YOU

that

> is already plugged in. pranams pranams pranams.

>

This is very good!! Who doubts? Who worries? Yes, nice walking with

you,

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...>

wrote:

> henny,

>

> i hope you don't mind taking it even a step further with me ... a

walk

> in the park ...

>

> there are all sorts of conflicts going on, this universe seems to be

> all about that.

>

> sometimes it is us within ourselves. other times we defend against

> things that do not seem right.

>

> the ego gives up a fight and all that, but sometimes i wonder, if

that

> is the place to set your cannon, so to speak.

>

> that realm of the battle might not even be THE battle it might be a

> distraction.

>

> this is my opinion on course, no one else's. but the adventure is

YOU

> and GOD all the other stuff is along the way. god bless you to find

> that, and me too, and everyone else.

>

> having been in a cult in my 20's i NEVER encourage anyone to deny

> their doubts. hear your doubts, engage them, engage EVERYTHING in

the

> process to grow.

>

> its a little self abnegation to mistrust oneself too much, its

better

> to maybe trust more, or deeper. not only your guides but the YOU

that

> is already plugged in. pranams pranams pranams.

>

>

> , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion and the need

to

> > question. I thought about what you said and I think you're right,

> it

> > is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is also a

> personal

> > struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I surrender to the

> Guru'

> > in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the real thing,

the

> > big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the process, I guess.

> And

> > while it is good to question because it can lead you further

> towards

> > truth, it can also make you go round in circles when the need to

> > question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you just have to

> take a

> > leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your back,

> >

> > with love,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...>

> > wrote:

> > > hi henny

> > >

> > > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps anyone living

with

> a

> > > 100% western orientation is going to have moments of confusion

on

> > > this.

> > >

> > > in india where people, at least traditional people, are

saturated

> in

> > > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru on all levels

> at

> > > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being an emanation of

> > shiva

> > > in person.

> > >

> > > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that questioning, not

to

> > hide

> > > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry into truth,

> > seeking

> > > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in our dna from

> > > ancient greece!

> > >

> > > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> > >

> > > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this spiritual approach

> to

> > > server their own needs for power -- this denies them a foothold;

> > and,

> > >

> > > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the ultimate

questions

> > > about god and truth, we do not put our own discrimination to

> sleep,

> > we

> > > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god places before us,

> > always

> > > learning.

> > >

> > > steve

> > >

> > >

> > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...>

wrote:

> > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> > > problems

> > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the

> Guru

> > in

> > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I

> would

> > > like

> > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone

> can

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency

and

> > > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one

> (see

> > > the

> > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

> > Guru

> > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> > forgetting

> > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the

Guru,

> > > then,

> > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our

> true

> > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth

consistently.

> > > How

> > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity

> in

> > > our

> > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > >

> > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want

> of a

> > > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> > least

> > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the

> experience

> > > of

> > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth

> and

> > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> > > objects

> > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and

remember.

> > > >

> > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or

> the

> > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

> > > truth.

> > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji,

we

> > > have

> > > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we

> speak

> > > of

> > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is

> the

> > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and

> Shree

> > > Maa

> > > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me

> to

> > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them

in

> > > terms

> > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> > meditation,

> > > I

> > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and

> Swamiji

> > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they

> merge

> > > into

> > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form,

> the

> > > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> > someone,

> > > is

> > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> > > instance,

> > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical

> terms

> > > it

> > > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person,

who

> do

> > > you

> > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa

is

> > > there

> > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone

would

> > ask

> > > me

> > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't

know

> > > what

> > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me,

> which

> > is

> > > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's

> attitude

> > > has

> > > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > > >

> > > > puzzled,

> > > > Henny

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Kali Kali <k

> > > aliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > > ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> > > completely

> > > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude

> of,

> > > the

> > > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and

with

> > > great

> > > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits

but

> > > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the

same

> > > always

> > > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained

> truth,

> > > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was

> ever

> > > in

> > > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I

have

> > > taken

> > > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is

> paramount

> > > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my

ego

> in

> > > Thy

> > > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace,

> humility,

> > > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

> > > outside

> > > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> > > reflects

> > > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

> > that

> > > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the

same

> > > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss

> of

> > > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode

of

> > the

> > > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > > >

> > > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > > >

> > > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you

> using

> > > the

> > > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Kalia

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sports

> > > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Chrisji,

 

thank you for the disillusionment story

I guess that goes on all the time; people turning their backs on Shri

Ramakrishna when he got ill, etc. It is true, most of us have strange

ideas of what it is to be enlightened (which is why we sometimes trust

too much and sometimes too little) and the only way to know is to have

the experience. May we all become knowers,

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

 

, "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y.

...> wrote:

> Henny,

>

> Swami Satyananda of The Bihar School of Yoga wrote that it is

actually

> easier to attune one's self with the guru the less one has actual

> physical contact. I don't know. I accept his word that it is true,

but

> it is hard for me too, to be open and vulnerable without that normal

> kind of contact I am so used to depending on to evaluate and judge

my

> relationships with others. It really is a leap of faith.

>

> Regarding the eggplant issue, I gather from your response that this

is

> not the issue with you, but it reminded me of a funny incident

related

> in Pandit Rajmani Tigunait's book At the Eleventh Hour. A young

woman

> was working on her doctoral dissertation on yoga and she wanted to

> interview Swami Rama. During the interview Swamiji coughed a couple

of

> times and she thought, "Why is he coughing if he is a great yogi?"

> Then Swamiji excused himself to go to the bathroom and she became

> completely disillusioned. She asked him why, if he is perfected,

that

> he has to eat and go to the bathroom, to which Swamiji replied in a

> gruff voice, What do you mean?" Whereupon she excused herself and

> left. She was so disillusioned that she returned home and began a

> campaign against Swami Rama because she was convinced by the fact

that

> he needed to eat and drink and go to the bathroom that he was a

fake.

>

> As Steve alluded to in his post, it is hard for us in the West to

> relate to enlightened beings; we only really have one cultural

> example, and he has been gone from the body for two thousand years.

> People in the West, myself included, have some very strange ideas

> about what it is to be enlightened.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

>

> , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > Chrisji,

> >

> > you are very observant.

> >

> > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning

to

> > be

> > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

you

> > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > times.

> >

> > Yes, you are right. What's really going on is that I want to be

closer

> > and don't know how. I see that now, but I did not realize this was

the

> > real question. It is precisely because I understand that Shree Maa

and

> > Swamiji embody the highest consciousness, that my defenses are up.

> > They scare me and I still want to get closer. The tricks of the

mind..

> >

> > The example of Swamiji liking eggplant was not meant to illustrate

> > that such a person cannot possibly be the true guru. I just tried

to

> > say that I can imagine myself speaking to a guy loving his

eggplant,

> > but I cannot imagine myself actually speaking to the one whose

heart I

> > saw radiating light in a dream.

> >

> > Anyway, thanks for listening,

> >

> > with love,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> > (, "Chris Kirner"

> > <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > > Henny dear,

> > >

> > > I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left

> > wondering

> > > what is is you're really asking...

> > >

> > > I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how

Maa

> > and

> > > Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places

and

> > > merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the

> > highest

> > > sense it's true.

> > >

> > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're yearning

to

> > be

> > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

you

> > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > times.

> > >

> > > They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the morning

and

> > > doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless Divine.

In

> > > the tattwas, all of these things having to do with individuality

lay

> > > below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things

do

> > not

> > > disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not

destroyed, it

> > > is brought into its proper relationship with higher

consciousness;

> > it

> > > serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of

the

> > > individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that

makes

> > > life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

> > >

> > > I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual

> > conundrum

> > > lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever

someone

> > > praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No," or

> > "You

> > > honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

> > > humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that

it

> > is

> > > not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine

consciousness

> > > which they are an expression of.

> > >

> > > Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read

that

> > the

> > > pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have

> > experiences

> > > of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a

matter

> > of

> > > continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

> > > experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act of

> > will,

> > > in any case.

> > >

> > > Jai Maa!

> > > Chris

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...>

wrote:

> > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> > problems

> > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the

Guru

> > in

> > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I

would

> > like

> > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone

can

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency

and

> > > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one

(see

> > the

> > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become' the

> > Guru

> > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> > forgetting

> > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the

Guru,

> > then,

> > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our

true

> > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth

consistently.

> > How

> > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and purity

in

> > our

> > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > >

> > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want

of a

> > > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> > least

> > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the

experience

> > of

> > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth

and

> > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> > objects

> > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and

remember.

> > > >

> > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or

the

> > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach us

> > truth.

> > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji,

we

> > have

> > > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we

speak

> > of

> > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is

the

> > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and

Shree

> > Maa

> > > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead me

to

> > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them

in

> > terms

> > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> > meditation, I

> > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and

Swamiji

> > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they

merge

> > into

> > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form,

the

> > > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> > someone, is

> > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> > instance,

> > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical

terms

> > it

> > > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person,

who do

> > you

> > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa

is

> > there

> > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone

would

> > ask me

> > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't

know

> > what

> > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me,

which

> > is

> > > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's

attitude

> > has

> > > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > > >

> > > > puzzled,

> > > > Henny

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Kali Kali

> > <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > > ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> > completely

> > > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude

of,

> > the

> > > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of Pramahansa

> > > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and

with

> > great

> > > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits

but

> > > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the

same

> > always

> > > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained

truth,

> > > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was

ever

> > in

> > > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I

have

> > taken

> > > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is

paramount

> > > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my

ego in

> > Thy

> > > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace,

humility,

> > > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to be

> > outside

> > > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> > reflects

> > > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity in

> > that

> > > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the

same

> > > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the bliss

of

> > > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode

of

> > the

> > > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > > >

> > > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > > >

> > > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you

using

> > the

> > > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Kalia

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sports

> > > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

ONce I heard Swami Satchitananda give a talk about

this subject. I hope I can say it more or less the way

he meant it; but what he said was to the effect that,

one has to find the right Guru, and after that make

the decision to stay with that Guru. The early part of

the path is finding the right one. A person might go

around meeting lots of different Gurus, trying to find

the right one. Swami Satchitananda called this "Guru

dating". (he said that in sort of a joking way). He

said it's important to make sure the Guru in question

is for real, and not an imposter. He said "Once the

doctor has you up on the operating table, it's too

late to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my mind'". So

better make sure it's an authentic Guru.

 

After that, He said one has to stop "Guru dating" and

take to the path earnestly.

 

Ramakrishna said there was no need to go around

digging endless wells. One only needs to strike the

ground water once, in one well, and then they have the

water.

 

Maa says once the person really surrenders to thier

Guru, that's when things really start happening.

 

Obviously, most of us think Maa and Swami Ji are the

real thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

 

Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who is

Her true devotee.

 

In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devotee

might test each other for twelve years, before the

Guru would give mantra diksha, mantra initiation, to

the devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee into

the Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.

 

Jai Maa!

 

--- henny_v_i <HvI wrote:

> thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion

> and the need to

> question. I thought about what you said and I think

> you're right, it

> is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is

> also a personal

> struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I

> surrender to the Guru'

> in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the

> real thing, the

> big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the

> process, I guess. And

> while it is good to question because it can lead you

> further towards

> truth, it can also make you go round in circles when

> the need to

> question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you

> just have to take a

> leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your

> back,

>

> with love,

> Henny

, "Steve Connor"

> <sconnor@a...>

> wrote:

> > hi henny

> >

> > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps

> anyone living with a

> > 100% western orientation is going to have moments

> of confusion on

> > this.

> >

> > in india where people, at least traditional

> people, are saturated in

> > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru

> on all levels at

> > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being

> an emanation of

> shiva

> > in person.

> >

> > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that

> questioning, not to

> hide

> > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry

> into truth,

> seeking

> > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in

> our dna from

> > ancient greece!

> >

> > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> >

> > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this

> spiritual approach to

> > server their own needs for power -- this denies

> them a foothold;

> and,

> >

> > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the

> ultimate questions

> > about god and truth, we do not put our own

> discrimination to sleep,

> we

> > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god

> places before us,

> always

> > learning.

> >

> > steve

> >

> >

> > , "henny_v_i"

> <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > >

> > > I'm having some problems with these verses,

> reflecting some

> > problems

> > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru

> principle' and the Guru

> in

> > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point

> here, but I would

> > like

> > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and

> perhaps someone can

> > > help.

> > >

> > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that

> consistency and

> > > stability are important in this verse and in the

> previous one (see

> > the

> > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We

> can 'become' the

> Guru

> > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but

> we keep

> forgetting

> > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To

> 'become' the Guru,

> > then,

> > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from

> experience, that our true

> > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this

> truth consistently.

> > How

> > > can this not mean the establishment of peace,

> truth and purity in

> > our

> > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > >

> > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened

> beings (for want of a

> > > better term), who know who they truly are all

> the time (or at

> least

> > > most of the time), and thus they can be an

> example for us of

> > > consistency and stability in living the truth.

> And the experience

> > of

> > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the

> peace, truth and

> > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the

> 'dirt of worldy

> > objects

> > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate'

> more and remember.

> > >

> > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through'

> embodied beings (or the

> > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in

> order to teach us

> > truth.

> > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa

> and Swamiji, we

> > have

> > > two physical forms, embodying the same

> principle. So when we speak

> > of

> > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me,

> that 'guru' is the

> > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in

> Swamiji and Shree

> > Maa

> > > and because their light is unobscured, their

> light can lead me to

> > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I

> think of them in

> > terms

> > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get

> blurred. In

> meditation,

> > I

> > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as

> Mother and Swamiji

> > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and

> sometimes they merge

> > into

> > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of

> the bodily form, the

> > > presence of a person you experience when you

> actually meet

> someone,

> > is

> > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking

> egg-plant, for

> > instance,

> > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity'

> than the

> > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And

> in practical terms

> > it

> > > is confusing too: how can you address a

> two-in-one-person, who do

> > you

> > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions,

> but Shree Maa is

> > there

> > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So

> if someone would

> ask

> > me

> > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I

> honestly wouldn't know

> > what

> > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only

> one to me, which

> is

> > > also the light in me. So your question of how

> the Guru's attitude

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I tend to get frustrated sometimes with Swamiji's brief answers

to my questions, but in my more balanced moments I believe he does so

specifically to force me to rely on and develop my intuitive

abilities, both the connection to he and Mother, and awareness of the

inner Guru.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote:

> That's very cool what you report about what Swami Satyananda of The

> BSY said about physical contact. My feeling is, it can be true. There

> is a neat account of an older student of Ramana Maharshi's who Ramana

> sent away so the student would become closer in spirit to the Guru. He

> wouldn't even talk to his student, after decades of personal contact.

> The guy became very profound, deepened his tapas, and became the guru

> far more than he was when he was with Maharshi constantly, doing

> building projects, etc.

>

>

> , "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > Henny,

> >

> > Swami Satyananda of The Bihar School of Yoga wrote that it is

> actually

> > easier to attune one's self with the guru the less one has actual

> > physical contact. I don't know. I accept his word that it is true,

> but

> > it is hard for me too, to be open and vulnerable without that normal

> > kind of contact I am so used to depending on to evaluate and judge

> my

> > relationships with others. It really is a leap of faith.

> >

> > Regarding the eggplant issue, I gather from your response that this

> is

> > not the issue with you, but it reminded me of a funny incident

> related

> > in Pandit Rajmani Tigunait's book At the Eleventh Hour. A young

> woman

> > was working on her doctoral dissertation on yoga and she wanted to

> > interview Swami Rama. During the interview Swamiji coughed a couple

> of

> > times and she thought, "Why is he coughing if he is a great yogi?"

> > Then Swamiji excused himself to go to the bathroom and she became

> > completely disillusioned. She asked him why, if he is perfected,

> that

> > he has to eat and go to the bathroom, to which Swamiji replied in a

> > gruff voice, What do you mean?" Whereupon she excused herself and

> > left. She was so disillusioned that she returned home and began a

> > campaign against Swami Rama because she was convinced by the fact

> that

> > he needed to eat and drink and go to the bathroom that he was a

> fake.

> >

> > As Steve alluded to in his post, it is hard for us in the West to

> > relate to enlightened beings; we only really have one cultural

> > example, and he has been gone from the body for two thousand years.

> > People in the West, myself included, have some very strange ideas

> > about what it is to be enlightened.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

> > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > Chrisji,

> > >

> > > you are very observant.

> > >

> > > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're

> yearning to

> > > be

> > > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

> you

> > > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > > times.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right. What's really going on is that I want to be

> closer

> > > and don't know how. I see that now, but I did not realize this was

> the

> > > real question. It is precisely because I understand that Shree Maa

> and

> > > Swamiji embody the highest consciousness, that my defenses are

> up.

> > > They scare me and I still want to get closer. The tricks of the

> mind..

> > >

> > > The example of Swamiji liking eggplant was not meant to

> illustrate

> > > that such a person cannot possibly be the true guru. I just tried

> to

> > > say that I can imagine myself speaking to a guy loving his

> eggplant,

> > > but I cannot imagine myself actually speaking to the one whose

> heart I

> > > saw radiating light in a dream.

> > >

> > > Anyway, thanks for listening,

> > >

> > > with love,

> > > Henny

> > >

> > >

> > > (, "Chris Kirner"

> > > <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > > > Henny dear,

> > > >

> > > > I read all of this, and it's really wonderful, but I'm left

> > > wondering

> > > > what is is you're really asking...

> > > >

> > > > I really liked what you had to say about your meditation, how

> Maa

> > > and

> > > > Swamiji and Shiva and Divine Mother all kind of exchange places

> and

> > > > merge into one another; I think that's just beautiful. In the

> > > highest

> > > > sense it's true.

> > > >

> > > > I'm thinking what's really going on here is that you're

> yearning to

> > > be

> > > > closer, and missing the physical part of the connection between

> you

> > > > and they. I understand, and I, at least have met them a couple

> > > times.

> > > >

> > > > They are both individuals, and Maa likes her rice in the

> morning and

> > > > doesn't like toast, but they do also embody the formless

> Divine. In

> > > > the tattwas, all of these things having to do with

> individuality lay

> > > > below Divine awareness. When divinity is realized these things

> do

> > > not

> > > > disappear, they are brought into order. The ego is not

> destroyed, it

> > > > is brought into its proper relationship with higher

> consciousness;

> > > it

> > > > serves the center of being, rather than usurping the mastery of

> the

> > > > individual. It is ignorance that goes, not the uniqueness that

> makes

> > > > life a beautiful expression of Mother's will.

> > > >

> > > > I think the core of this guru tattwa and guru as individual

> > > conundrum

> > > > lies in the behavior of both Mother and Swamiji. Whenever

> someone

> > > > praises them they always become very humble, saying "No, No,"

> or

> > > "You

> > > > honor me." They are not being humble (they are the essense of

> > > > humility), they are expressing the truth of their reality, that

> it

> > > is

> > > > not so much Maa or Swamiji we praise, but that divine

> consciousness

> > > > which they are an expression of.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, as far as the maintaining part is concerned, I have read

> that

> > > the

> > > > pull of maya is very strong and very subtle. One can have

> > > experiences

> > > > of pure consciousness and still get pulled back in. It is a

> matter

> > > of

> > > > continuing growth, I understand. Only the highest masters do not

> > > > experience the pull of maya. But I think there must be an act

> of

> > > will,

> > > > in any case.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa!

> > > > Chris

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...>

> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm having some problems with these verses, reflecting some

> > > problems

> > > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru principle' and the

> Guru

> > > in

> > > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point here, but I

> would

> > > like

> > > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and perhaps someone

> can

> > > > > help.

> > > > >

> > > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that consistency

> and

> > > > > stability are important in this verse and in the previous one

> (see

> > > the

> > > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We can 'become'

> the

> > > Guru

> > > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but we keep

> > > forgetting

> > > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To 'become' the

> Guru,

> > > then,

> > > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from experience, that our

> true

> > > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this truth

> consistently.

> > > How

> > > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace, truth and

> purity in

> > > our

> > > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened beings (for want

> of a

> > > > > better term), who know who they truly are all the time (or at

> > > least

> > > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an example for us of

> > > > > consistency and stability in living the truth. And the

> experience

> > > of

> > > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the peace, truth

> and

> > > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the 'dirt of worldy

> > > objects

> > > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate' more and

> remember.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through' embodied beings (or

> the

> > > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in order to teach

> us

> > > truth.

> > > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa and Swamiji,

> we

> > > have

> > > > > two physical forms, embodying the same principle. So when we

> speak

> > > of

> > > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me, that 'guru' is

> the

> > > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in Swamiji and

> Shree

> > > Maa

> > > > > and because their light is unobscured, their light can lead

> me to

> > > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I think of them

> in

> > > terms

> > > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get blurred. In

> > > meditation, I

> > > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as Mother and

> Swamiji

> > > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and sometimes they

> merge

> > > into

> > > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of the bodily form,

> the

> > > > > presence of a person you experience when you actually meet

> > > someone, is

> > > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking egg-plant, for

> > > instance,

> > > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity' than the

> > > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And in practical

> terms

> > > it

> > > > > is confusing too: how can you address a two-in-one-person,

> who do

> > > you

> > > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions, but Shree Maa

> is

> > > there

> > > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So if someone

> would

> > > ask me

> > > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I honestly wouldn't

> know

> > > what

> > > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only one to me,

> which

> > > is

> > > > > also the light in me. So your question of how the Guru's

> attitude

> > > has

> > > > > impacted your life leads me to ask 'which guru'?

> > > > >

> > > > > puzzled,

> > > > > Henny

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , Kali Kali

> > > <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> > > > > ..> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here is our verse for today, 27 June -

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 159. Wherever he resides, he maintains his own attitude,

> > > completely

> > > > > pure within and without. There (in his presence) the multitude

> of,

> > > the

> > > > > Gods and all places of pilgrimage will inhabit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Comment: This verse today to reminds me first of

> Pramahansa

> > > > > Ramakrishna who did everything straight from the heart and

> with

> > > great

> > > > > enthusiasm. He wasted no time or energy on earthly pursuits

> but

> > > > > showered all his love and energy on the Divine, He was the

> same

> > > always

> > > > > no matter where he was or in whose company, He maintained

> truth,

> > > > > simplicity, humility and an undying love for Mother. He was

> ever

> > > in

> > > > > Divine Bliss. "O Mother." he would pray day and night. "I

> have

> > > taken

> > > > > refuge in you. Teach me what to do or say. Thy will is

> paramount

> > > > > everywhere and is for the benefit of Thy children. Merge my

> ego in

> > > Thy

> > > > > will and make me Thy instrument."

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, my Gurujis who to me represents -Truth, peace,

> humility,

> > > > > simplicity, bliss. It is said that whatever we perceive to

> be

> > > outside

> > > > > of the body is also within, the rivers, the seas. The mandir

> > > reflects

> > > > > the attitude of Gurujis, there is always Peace and serenity

> in

> > > that

> > > > > abode. The bodily form, the earthly residence are all the

> same

> > > > > humble, at one with nature, peaceful and filled with the

> bliss of

> > > > > being. To step into Shree Maa Way is to step into the abode

> of

> > > the

> > > > > Gods and Goddesses.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is there anything that you can share with us on this?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How has your Guru's attitude impacted on your life?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is lots of knowledge being gained here. How are you

> using

> > > the

> > > > > knowledge to grow in the path of the Guru?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is there any thing special that you might like to share?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kalia

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sports

> > > > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

>

 

May we all become knowers,

>

> with love,

> Henny

>

>

 

 

 

May it even be so.

 

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

[Guest guest]

ONce I heard Swami Satchitananda give a talk aboutthis subject. I hope

I can say it more or less the wayhe meant it; but what he said was to

the effect that,one has to find the right Guru, and after that

makethe decision to stay with that Guru. The early part ofthe path is

finding the right one. A person might goaround meeting lots of

different Gurus, trying to findthe right one. Swami Satchitananda

called this "Gurudating". (he said that in sort of a joking way).

Hesaid it's important to make sure the Guru in questionis for real,

and not an imposter. He said "Once thedoctor has you up on the

operating table, it's toolate to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my

mind'". Sobetter make sure it's an authentic Guru.After that, He said

one has to stop "Guru dating" andtake to the path

earnestly.Ramakrishna said there was

no need to go arounddigging endless wells. One only needs to strike

theground water once, in one well, and then they have thewater. Maa

says once the person really surrenders to thierGuru, that's when

things really start happening.Obviously, most of us think Maa and

Swami Ji are thereal thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who isHer true

devotee.In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devoteemight test

each other for twelve years, before theGuru would give mantra diksha,

mantra initiation, tothe devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee

intothe Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.Jai Maa!---

henny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote:> thanks, steve, for understanding

both the confusion> and the need to > question. I thought about what

you said and I think> you're right, it > is part of

western conditioning, but I now see it is> also a personal > struggle

with surrender. It is easy to say 'I> surrender to the Guru' > in an

abstract sense, but when it comes down to the> real thing, the > big

ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the> process, I guess. And >

while it is good to question because it can lead you> further towards

> truth, it can also make you go round in circles when> the need to >

question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you> just have to take

a > leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your> back,> > with

love,> Henny> > > > > > > , "Steve

Connor"> <sconnor@a...> > wrote:> > hi henny> > > > in my observation

you and i as well as perhaps> anyone living with a> > 100%

western orientation is going to have moments> of confusion on> >

this.> > > > in india where people, at least traditional> people, are

saturated in> > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru> on

all levels at> > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being> an

emanation of > shiva> > in person.> > > > in my opinion it is

honorable to respect that> questioning, not to > hide> > or attempt

to cover it; it is part of our inquiry> into truth, > seeking> > an

ultimate authority based on reason, probably in> our dna from> >

ancient greece!> > > > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> > > > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this> spiritual

approach to> > server their own needs for power -- this denies> them

a

foothold; > and,> > > > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on

the> ultimate questions> > about god and truth, we do not put our

own> discrimination to sleep, > we> > remaining vigilant and AWARE of

whatever god> places before us, > always> > learning.> > > > steve> >

> > > > , "henny_v_i"> <HvI@S...>

wrote:> > > Dear Kalia and all,> > > > > > I'm having some problems

with these verses,> reflecting some> > problems > > > I'm having

trying to reconcile the 'Guru> principle' and the Guru > in > > >

bodily form. It may be totally beside the point> here, but I would> >

like > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and> perhaps

someone can > > >

help.> > > > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that>

consistency and > > > stability are important in this verse and in

the> previous one (see> > the > > > use of the words 'always' and

'maintain'). We> can 'become' the > Guru > > > precisely because we

already 'are' the Guru, but> we keep > forgetting > > > (or don't

believe it in the first place). To> 'become' the Guru,> > then, > > >

is to finally be our Self: knowing, from> experience, that our true >

> > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this> truth

consistently.> > How > > > can this not mean the establishment of

peace,> truth and purity in> > our > > > life, which is all life.

That's the theory.> > > > > > Now, I understand that there are

enlightened> beings (for want of a > > > better term), who know who

they truly are all> the time (or at > least > > > most of the time),

and thus they can be an> example for us of > > > consistency and

stability in living the truth.> And the experience> > of > > > their

peace, truth and purity (which is also the> peace, truth and > > >

purity we have hidden in ourselves under the> 'dirt of worldy> >

objects > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate'> more and

remember.> > > > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through'>

embodied beings (or the > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical

form) in> order to teach us> > truth. > > > And here is where I get

confused: with Shree Maa> and Swamiji, we> > have > > > two

physical forms, embodying the same> principle. So when we speak> > of

> > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me,> that 'guru' is

the > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in> Swamiji

and Shree> > Maa > > > and because their light is unobscured, their>

light can lead me to > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now,

because I> think of them in> > terms > > > of inner light, the actual

bodily forms get> blurred. In > meditation,> > I > > > see Shree Maa

sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as> Mother and Swamiji > > > sometimes

as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and> sometimes they merge> > into > >

> each other as 'just light'. So the reality of> the bodily form, the

> > > presence of a person you experience when you> actually meet

> someone,> > is > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking>

egg-plant, for> > instance, > > > that seems to be an entirely

different 'entity'> than the > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as

the Guru. And> in practical terms> > it > > > is confusing too: how

can you address a> two-in-one-person, who do> > you > > > speak to?

I know Swamiji answers our questions,> but Shree Maa is> > there > >

> automatically as well as I read the answer. So> if someone would >

ask> > me > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I> honestly

wouldn't know> > what > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there

is only> one to me, which > is > > > also the light in me. So your

question of how> the Guru's attitude>

=== message truncated

===Do You

?Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador agora!

[Guest guest]

what a mystery this is. some go to the guru and stay with that one.

others wander around and meet all sorts of gurus. then some go into a

cave and seem to have no human guru at all. om om om. god will

prevail.

 

, Kala Chandra

<kalachandra2003> wrote:

> Jai Guru! Thanks Nirmalananda !

>

> Nirmalananda Saraswati <nirmalananda1008> escreveu:ONce I heard

Swami Satchitananda give a talk about

> this subject. I hope I can say it more or less the way

> he meant it; but what he said was to the effect that,

> one has to find the right Guru, and after that make

> the decision to stay with that Guru. The early part of

> the path is finding the right one. A person might go

> around meeting lots of different Gurus, trying to find

> the right one. Swami Satchitananda called this "Guru

> dating". (he said that in sort of a joking way). He

> said it's important to make sure the Guru in question

> is for real, and not an imposter. He said "Once the

> doctor has you up on the operating table, it's too

> late to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my mind'". So

> better make sure it's an authentic Guru.

>

> After that, He said one has to stop "Guru dating" and

> take to the path earnestly.

>

> Ramakrishna said there was no need to go around

> digging endless wells. One only needs to strike the

> ground water once, in one well, and then they have the

> water.

>

> Maa says once the person really surrenders to thier

> Guru, that's when things really start happening.

>

> Obviously, most of us think Maa and Swami Ji are the

> real thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

>

> Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who is

> Her true devotee.

>

> In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devotee

> might test each other for twelve years, before the

> Guru would give mantra diksha, mantra initiation, to

> the devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee into

> the Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> --- henny_v_i <HvI@S...> wrote:

>

> > thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion

> > and the need to

> > question. I thought about what you said and I think

> > you're right, it

> > is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is

> > also a personal

> > struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I

> > surrender to the Guru'

> > in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the

> > real thing, the

> > big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the

> > process, I guess. And

> > while it is good to question because it can lead you

> > further towards

> > truth, it can also make you go round in circles when

> > the need to

> > question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you

> > just have to take a

> > leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your

> > back,

> >

> > with love,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "Steve Connor"

> > <sconnor@a...>

> > wrote:

> > > hi henny

> > >

> > > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps

> > anyone living with a

> > > 100% western orientation is going to have moments

> > of confusion on

> > > this.

> > >

> > > in india where people, at least traditional

> > people, are saturated in

> > > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru

> > on all levels at

> > > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being

> > an emanation of

> > shiva

> > > in person.

> > >

> > > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that

> > questioning, not to

> > hide

> > > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry

> > into truth,

> > seeking

> > > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in

> > our dna from

> > > ancient greece!

> > >

> > > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> > >

> > > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this

> > spiritual approach to

> > > server their own needs for power -- this denies

> > them a foothold;

> > and,

> > >

> > > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the

> > ultimate questions

> > > about god and truth, we do not put our own

> > discrimination to sleep,

> > we

> > > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god

> > places before us,

> > always

> > > learning.

> > >

> > > steve

> > >

> > >

> > > , "henny_v_i"

> > <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having some problems with these verses,

> > reflecting some

> > > problems

> > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru

> > principle' and the Guru

> > in

> > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point

> > here, but I would

> > > like

> > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and

> > perhaps someone can

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that

> > consistency and

> > > > stability are important in this verse and in the

> > previous one (see

> > > the

> > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We

> > can 'become' the

> > Guru

> > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but

> > we keep

> > forgetting

> > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To

> > 'become' the Guru,

> > > then,

> > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from

> > experience, that our true

> > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this

> > truth consistently.

> > > How

> > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace,

> > truth and purity in

> > > our

> > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > >

> > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened

> > beings (for want of a

> > > > better term), who know who they truly are all

> > the time (or at

> > least

> > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an

> > example for us of

> > > > consistency and stability in living the truth.

> > And the experience

> > > of

> > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the

> > peace, truth and

> > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the

> > 'dirt of worldy

> > > objects

> > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate'

> > more and remember.

> > > >

> > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through'

> > embodied beings (or the

> > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in

> > order to teach us

> > > truth.

> > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa

> > and Swamiji, we

> > > have

> > > > two physical forms, embodying the same

> > principle. So when we speak

> > > of

> > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me,

> > that 'guru' is the

> > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in

> > Swamiji and Shree

> > > Maa

> > > > and because their light is unobscured, their

> > light can lead me to

> > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I

> > think of them in

> > > terms

> > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get

> > blurred. In

> > meditation,

> > > I

> > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as

> > Mother and Swamiji

> > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and

> > sometimes they merge

> > > into

> > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of

> > the bodily form, the

> > > > presence of a person you experience when you

> > actually meet

> > someone,

> > > is

> > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking

> > egg-plant, for

> > > instance,

> > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity'

> > than the

> > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And

> > in practical terms

> > > it

> > > > is confusing too: how can you address a

> > two-in-one-person, who do

> > > you

> > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions,

> > but Shree Maa is

> > > there

> > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So

> > if someone would

> > ask

> > > me

> > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I

> > honestly wouldn't know

> > > what

> > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only

> > one to me, which

> > is

> > > > also the light in me. So your question of how

> > the Guru's attitude

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "" on the web.

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o

discador

agora!

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Nirmilananda, for your very clear response,

 

with love,

 

Henny

 

 

, Nirmalananda Saraswati

<nirmalananda1008> wrote:

> ONce I heard Swami Satchitananda give a talk about

> this subject. I hope I can say it more or less the way

> he meant it; but what he said was to the effect that,

> one has to find the right Guru, and after that make

> the decision to stay with that Guru. The early part of

> the path is finding the right one. A person might go

> around meeting lots of different Gurus, trying to find

> the right one. Swami Satchitananda called this "Guru

> dating". (he said that in sort of a joking way). He

> said it's important to make sure the Guru in question

> is for real, and not an imposter. He said "Once the

> doctor has you up on the operating table, it's too

> late to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my mind'". So

> better make sure it's an authentic Guru.

>

> After that, He said one has to stop "Guru dating" and

> take to the path earnestly.

>

> Ramakrishna said there was no need to go around

> digging endless wells. One only needs to strike the

> ground water once, in one well, and then they have the

> water.

>

> Maa says once the person really surrenders to thier

> Guru, that's when things really start happening.

>

> Obviously, most of us think Maa and Swami Ji are the

> real thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

>

> Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who is

> Her true devotee.

>

> In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devotee

> might test each other for twelve years, before the

> Guru would give mantra diksha, mantra initiation, to

> the devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee into

> the Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.

>

> Jai Maa!

>

> --- henny_v_i <HvI@S...> wrote:

>

> > thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion

> > and the need to

> > question. I thought about what you said and I think

> > you're right, it

> > is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is

> > also a personal

> > struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I

> > surrender to the Guru'

> > in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the

> > real thing, the

> > big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the

> > process, I guess. And

> > while it is good to question because it can lead you

> > further towards

> > truth, it can also make you go round in circles when

> > the need to

> > question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you

> > just have to take a

> > leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your

> > back,

> >

> > with love,

> > Henny

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "Steve Connor"

> > <sconnor@a...>

> > wrote:

> > > hi henny

> > >

> > > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps

> > anyone living with a

> > > 100% western orientation is going to have moments

> > of confusion on

> > > this.

> > >

> > > in india where people, at least traditional

> > people, are saturated in

> > > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru

> > on all levels at

> > > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being

> > an emanation of

> > shiva

> > > in person.

> > >

> > > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that

> > questioning, not to

> > hide

> > > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry

> > into truth,

> > seeking

> > > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in

> > our dna from

> > > ancient greece!

> > >

> > > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> > >

> > > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this

> > spiritual approach to

> > > server their own needs for power -- this denies

> > them a foothold;

> > and,

> > >

> > > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the

> > ultimate questions

> > > about god and truth, we do not put our own

> > discrimination to sleep,

> > we

> > > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god

> > places before us,

> > always

> > > learning.

> > >

> > > steve

> > >

> > >

> > > , "henny_v_i"

> > <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having some problems with these verses,

> > reflecting some

> > > problems

> > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru

> > principle' and the Guru

> > in

> > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point

> > here, but I would

> > > like

> > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and

> > perhaps someone can

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that

> > consistency and

> > > > stability are important in this verse and in the

> > previous one (see

> > > the

> > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We

> > can 'become' the

> > Guru

> > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but

> > we keep

> > forgetting

> > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To

> > 'become' the Guru,

> > > then,

> > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from

> > experience, that our true

> > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this

> > truth consistently.

> > > How

> > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace,

> > truth and purity in

> > > our

> > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > >

> > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened

> > beings (for want of a

> > > > better term), who know who they truly are all

> > the time (or at

> > least

> > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an

> > example for us of

> > > > consistency and stability in living the truth.

> > And the experience

> > > of

> > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the

> > peace, truth and

> > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the

> > 'dirt of worldy

> > > objects

> > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate'

> > more and remember.

> > > >

> > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through'

> > embodied beings (or the

> > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in

> > order to teach us

> > > truth.

> > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa

> > and Swamiji, we

> > > have

> > > > two physical forms, embodying the same

> > principle. So when we speak

> > > of

> > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me,

> > that 'guru' is the

> > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in

> > Swamiji and Shree

> > > Maa

> > > > and because their light is unobscured, their

> > light can lead me to

> > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I

> > think of them in

> > > terms

> > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get

> > blurred. In

> > meditation,

> > > I

> > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as

> > Mother and Swamiji

> > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and

> > sometimes they merge

> > > into

> > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of

> > the bodily form, the

> > > > presence of a person you experience when you

> > actually meet

> > someone,

> > > is

> > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking

> > egg-plant, for

> > > instance,

> > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity'

> > than the

> > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And

> > in practical terms

> > > it

> > > > is confusing too: how can you address a

> > two-in-one-person, who do

> > > you

> > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions,

> > but Shree Maa is

> > > there

> > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So

> > if someone would

> > ask

> > > me

> > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I

> > honestly wouldn't know

> > > what

> > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only

> > one to me, which

> > is

> > > > also the light in me. So your question of how

> > the Guru's attitude

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is a beautiful mystery...

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote:

> what a mystery this is. some go to the guru and stay with that one.

> others wander around and meet all sorts of gurus. then some go into a

> cave and seem to have no human guru at all. om om om. god will

> prevail.

>

> , Kala Chandra

> <kalachandra2003> wrote:

> > Jai Guru! Thanks Nirmalananda !

> >

> > Nirmalananda Saraswati <nirmalananda1008> escreveu:ONce I heard

> Swami Satchitananda give a talk about

> > this subject. I hope I can say it more or less the way

> > he meant it; but what he said was to the effect that,

> > one has to find the right Guru, and after that make

> > the decision to stay with that Guru. The early part of

> > the path is finding the right one. A person might go

> > around meeting lots of different Gurus, trying to find

> > the right one. Swami Satchitananda called this "Guru

> > dating". (he said that in sort of a joking way). He

> > said it's important to make sure the Guru in question

> > is for real, and not an imposter. He said "Once the

> > doctor has you up on the operating table, it's too

> > late to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my mind'". So

> > better make sure it's an authentic Guru.

> >

> > After that, He said one has to stop "Guru dating" and

> > take to the path earnestly.

> >

> > Ramakrishna said there was no need to go around

> > digging endless wells. One only needs to strike the

> > ground water once, in one well, and then they have the

> > water.

> >

> > Maa says once the person really surrenders to thier

> > Guru, that's when things really start happening.

> >

> > Obviously, most of us think Maa and Swami Ji are the

> > real thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

> >

> > Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who is

> > Her true devotee.

> >

> > In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devotee

> > might test each other for twelve years, before the

> > Guru would give mantra diksha, mantra initiation, to

> > the devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee into

> > the Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> >

> > --- henny_v_i <HvI@S...> wrote:

> >

> > > thanks, steve, for understanding both the confusion

> > > and the need to

> > > question. I thought about what you said and I think

> > > you're right, it

> > > is part of western conditioning, but I now see it is

> > > also a personal

> > > struggle with surrender. It is easy to say 'I

> > > surrender to the Guru'

> > > in an abstract sense, but when it comes down to the

> > > real thing, the

> > > big ego puts up a fight. It is all part of the

> > > process, I guess. And

> > > while it is good to question because it can lead you

> > > further towards

> > > truth, it can also make you go round in circles when

> > > the need to

> > > question refuses to question itself. Sometimes you

> > > just have to take a

> > > leap and stop ignoring the prodding finger in your

> > > back,

> > >

> > > with love,

> > > Henny

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Steve Connor"

> > > <sconnor@a...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > hi henny

> > > >

> > > > in my observation you and i as well as perhaps

> > > anyone living with a

> > > > 100% western orientation is going to have moments

> > > of confusion on

> > > > this.

> > > >

> > > > in india where people, at least traditional

> > > people, are saturated in

> > > > that culture, they have no problem seeing the guru

> > > on all levels at

> > > > once, both personal, liking eggplants, and being

> > > an emanation of

> > > shiva

> > > > in person.

> > > >

> > > > in my opinion it is honorable to respect that

> > > questioning, not to

> > > hide

> > > > or attempt to cover it; it is part of our inquiry

> > > into truth,

> > > seeking

> > > > an ultimate authority based on reason, probably in

> > > our dna from

> > > > ancient greece!

> > > >

> > > > why i think it is a good thing to question ...

> > > >

> > > > 1. there are unscrupulous people who use this

> > > spiritual approach to

> > > > server their own needs for power -- this denies

> > > them a foothold;

> > > and,

> > > >

> > > > 2. this probing keeps us moving forward on the

> > > ultimate questions

> > > > about god and truth, we do not put our own

> > > discrimination to sleep,

> > > we

> > > > remaining vigilant and AWARE of whatever god

> > > places before us,

> > > always

> > > > learning.

> > > >

> > > > steve

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "henny_v_i"

> > > <HvI@S...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Kalia and all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm having some problems with these verses,

> > > reflecting some

> > > > problems

> > > > > I'm having trying to reconcile the 'Guru

> > > principle' and the Guru

> > > in

> > > > > bodily form. It may be totally beside the point

> > > here, but I would

> > > > like

> > > > > to tell you because it gives me a headache and

> > > perhaps someone can

> > > > > help.

> > > > >

> > > > > My first reaction to verse 158 and 159 was that

> > > consistency and

> > > > > stability are important in this verse and in the

> > > previous one (see

> > > > the

> > > > > use of the words 'always' and 'maintain'). We

> > > can 'become' the

> > > Guru

> > > > > precisely because we already 'are' the Guru, but

> > > we keep

> > > forgetting

> > > > > (or don't believe it in the first place). To

> > > 'become' the Guru,

> > > > then,

> > > > > is to finally be our Self: knowing, from

> > > experience, that our true

> > > > > Self is the Highest Divinity and living this

> > > truth consistently.

> > > > How

> > > > > can this not mean the establishment of peace,

> > > truth and purity in

> > > > our

> > > > > life, which is all life. That's the theory.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, I understand that there are enlightened

> > > beings (for want of a

> > > > > better term), who know who they truly are all

> > > the time (or at

> > > least

> > > > > most of the time), and thus they can be an

> > > example for us of

> > > > > consistency and stability in living the truth.

> > > And the experience

> > > > of

> > > > > their peace, truth and purity (which is also the

> > > peace, truth and

> > > > > purity we have hidden in ourselves under the

> > > 'dirt of worldy

> > > > objects

> > > > > and relationships) can help us to 'resonate'

> > > more and remember.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Guru-principle can thus 'work through'

> > > embodied beings (or the

> > > > > Guru-principle maintains a physical form) in

> > > order to teach us

> > > > truth.

> > > > > And here is where I get confused: with Shree Maa

> > > and Swamiji, we

> > > > have

> > > > > two physical forms, embodying the same

> > > principle. So when we speak

> > > > of

> > > > > 'our guru', what are we speaking about? To me,

> > > that 'guru' is the

> > > > > light I experience in me, a light I also see in

> > > Swamiji and Shree

> > > > Maa

> > > > > and because their light is unobscured, their

> > > light can lead me to

> > > > > dis-cover more that light-in-me. Now, because I

> > > think of them in

> > > > terms

> > > > > of inner light, the actual bodily forms get

> > > blurred. In

> > > meditation,

> > > > I

> > > > > see Shree Maa sometimes as Shiva, sometimes as

> > > Mother and Swamiji

> > > > > sometimes as Mother, sometimes as Shiva, and

> > > sometimes they merge

> > > > into

> > > > > each other as 'just light'. So the reality of

> > > the bodily form, the

> > > > > presence of a person you experience when you

> > > actually meet

> > > someone,

> > > > is

> > > > > not there. When I hear about Swamiji liking

> > > egg-plant, for

> > > > instance,

> > > > > that seems to be an entirely different 'entity'

> > > than the

> > > > > Shree-Swami-Maa-ji I think of as the Guru. And

> > > in practical terms

> > > > it

> > > > > is confusing too: how can you address a

> > > two-in-one-person, who do

> > > > you

> > > > > speak to? I know Swamiji answers our questions,

> > > but Shree Maa is

> > > > there

> > > > > automatically as well as I read the answer. So

> > > if someone would

> > > ask

> > > > me

> > > > > 'who do you consider to be your guru?' I

> > > honestly wouldn't know

> > > > what

> > > > > to say. There seem to be two, but there is only

> > > one to me, which

> > > is

> > > > > also the light in me. So your question of how

> > > the Guru's attitude

> > >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Visit your group "" on the web.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o

> discador

> agora!

[Guest guest]

Nirmalanda,

Thank you for this. Your sharing is always so gentle and elegantly to

the point.

Om Shanti

 

, Nirmalananda Saraswati

<nirmalananda1008> wrote:

> ONce I heard Swami Satchitananda give a talk about

> this subject. I hope I can say it more or less the way

> he meant it; but what he said was to the effect that,

> one has to find the right Guru, and after that make

> the decision to stay with that Guru. The early part of

> the path is finding the right one. A person might go

> around meeting lots of different Gurus, trying to find

> the right one. Swami Satchitananda called this "Guru

> dating". (he said that in sort of a joking way). He

> said it's important to make sure the Guru in question

> is for real, and not an imposter. He said "Once the

> doctor has you up on the operating table, it's too

> late to say, 'Oh, wait I've changed my mind'". So

> better make sure it's an authentic Guru.

>

> After that, He said one has to stop "Guru dating" and

> take to the path earnestly.

>

> Ramakrishna said there was no need to go around

> digging endless wells. One only needs to strike the

> ground water once, in one well, and then they have the

> water.

>

> Maa says once the person really surrenders to thier

> Guru, that's when things really start happening.

>

> Obviously, most of us think Maa and Swami Ji are the

> real thing. Everyone has to find out for themselves.

>

> Also, the Guru will test the devotee, to see who is

> Her true devotee.

>

> In the old days, in India, the Guru and the devotee

> might test each other for twelve years, before the

> Guru would give mantra diksha, mantra initiation, to

> the devotee, thus formally bringing that devotee into

> the Guru's care, and making him/her a disciple.

>

> Jai Maa!