Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. It is not enough to say that we worship ... not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be elsewhere .... When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH ABANDON to our worship. Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! I will give her ALL I got. JAI MAA ! JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Yes... that is certainly Swamiji's message and example. JAI MAA!!!!!! "Latha Nanda" <lathananda > Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:56:56 -0000 Worshipping with Passion Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. It is not enough to say that we worship ... not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be elsewhere .... When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH ABANDON to our worship. Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! I will give her ALL I got. JAI MAA ! JAI SWAMIJI ! Sponsor Click Here <http://rd./SIG=12cc9c65o/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1078689565/A=2019528/R=2/SIG=141djod51/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N3349.1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=107860> / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 yes, sometimes i look at a picture of him, and i think, this is one positive, passionate, intelligent human being. jai maa, ardis!!! i started reading his and swami vittalananda's gita. real good. swamiji has an impassioned plea to mankind in the intro from 2003 to stop being destructive. also his reading of the gita in english are very energetic. the intro is extremely inspiring, you are like tasting, the living flavor of the gita, why it was written ... we are not looking at obscure spores on a piece of stale bread, he presents it as real nutrition to consume and make use of NOW. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Yes... that is certainly Swamiji's message and example. JAI MAA!!!!!! > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:56:56 -0000 > > Worshipping with Passion > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > elsewhere .... > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH > ABANDON to our worship. > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > I will give her ALL I got. > > JAI MAA ! > JAI SWAMIJI ! > > > > Sponsor > Click Here > <http://rd./SIG=12cc9c65o/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D =egroup > web/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1078689565/A=2019528/R=2/SIG=141djod51/*http: //ad.do > ubleclick.net/jump/N3349.1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=! ie5;sz=300x250;cod > e=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=107860> > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 That is one of the things that make Shree Maa and Swamiji stand out. They ARE the Living Scriptures and Practices. When I first went to the Devi Mandir in Napa, Durga told me " Maa and Swamiji want to create an ashram just like in the times of the munis and rishis." By their example, they have brought this about and with it, the LIVING transmission of all that the rishis and munis brought forward. Every book, every CD, every conversation, every ritual carries this transmission. We are so blessed. "bingo_ridley" <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:01:15 -0000 Re: Worshipping with Passion yes, sometimes i look at a picture of him, and i think, this is one positive, passionate, intelligent human being. jai maa, ardis!!! i started reading his and swami vittalananda's gita. real good. swamiji has an impassioned plea to mankind in the intro from 2003 to stop being destructive. also his reading of the gita in english are very energetic. the intro is extremely inspiring, you are like tasting, the living flavor of the gita, why it was written ... we are not looking at obscure spores on a piece of stale bread, he presents it as real nutrition to consume and make use of NOW. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Yes... that is certainly Swamiji's message and example. JAI MAA!!!!!! > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:56:56 -0000 > > Worshipping with Passion > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > elsewhere .... > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH > ABANDON to our worship. > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > I will give her ALL I got. > > JAI MAA ! > JAI SWAMIJI ! > > > > Sponsor > Click Here > <http://rd./SIG=12cc9c65o/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D =egroup > web/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1078689565/A=2019528/R=2/SIG=141djod51/*http: //ad.do > ubleclick.net/jump/N3349.1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=! ie5;sz=300x250;cod > e=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=107860> > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship of the Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, there is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we will lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable Divine go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate commitment to the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast others in an unfavorable light. With Love and Jai Ma! Dharmananda , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > elsewhere .... > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH > ABANDON to our worship. > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > I will give her ALL I got. > > JAI MAA ! > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of unity... by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care about those samsaric ups & downs... so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice-versa (I think of Tota Puri!). Kalibhakta , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> wrote: > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship of the > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, there > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we will > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable Divine > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate commitment to > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast others in > an unfavorable light. > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > Dharmananda > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > elsewhere .... > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE > IS > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > JAI MAA ! > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Thank you Dharmananda for an excellent response. It reminds me of two people arguing about bhava vs jnana. My response was to twist my first two fingers together and say "they are One". "ma1973" <dharmananda (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:54:28 -0000 Re: Worshipping with Passion Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship of the Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, there is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we will lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable Divine go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate commitment to the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast others in an unfavorable light. With Love and Jai Ma! Dharmananda , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > elsewhere .... > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, SHE IS > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, WITH > ABANDON to our worship. > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > I will give her ALL I got. > > JAI MAA ! > JAI SWAMIJI ! Sponsor Click Here <http://rd./SIG=12c6nubv9/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1078723328/A=2019528/R=2/SIG=1410a8442/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N3349.1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=107863> / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 that certainly puts it togeter. btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i have seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all the difference, and having a living example today is obviously an advantage to the seeker. love, s , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> wrote: > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of > unity... > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care about > those samsaric ups & downs... > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- versa > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > Kalibhakta > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > wrote: > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship of > the > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, > there > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we > will > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable > Divine > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate commitment > to > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast others > in > > an unfavorable light. > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, > SHE > > IS > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, > WITH > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views about passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the Divine are among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language and tone of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the essential point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that kind of language when only meaning to affirm something very positive about our teachers and our practice. For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of expression, I can think of no better example than our own beloved Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and more as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. Lately I have been listening to the online classes which are truly wonderful. Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, ecstatic, and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his beloved Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing the aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, efficient, clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual practice and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and wisdom -- bhakti and jnana. And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also a Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online class on the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the unity in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya philosophy where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we create a harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. That's what Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. That's how She works." It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers and sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree Maa, and the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! Love, Dharmananda , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > that certainly puts it togeter. > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i have seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all the difference, and having a living example today > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > love, > > s > > , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> > wrote: > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of > > unity... > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care about > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- > versa > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > wrote: > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship > of > > the > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, > > there > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we > > will > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable > > Divine > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > commitment > > to > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast > others > > in > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, > > SHE > > > IS > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, > > WITH > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Dear Dharmananda, Thank you for expressing so beautifully your view of our own beloved Swamiji. I couldn't agree with you more! Ardis "ma1973" <dharmananda (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:01:39 -0000 Re: Worshipping with Passion I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views about passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the Divine are among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language and tone of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the essential point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that kind of language when only meaning to affirm something very positive about our teachers and our practice. For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of expression, I can think of no better example than our own beloved Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and more as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. Lately I have been listening to the online classes which are truly wonderful. Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, ecstatic, and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his beloved Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing the aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, efficient, clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual practice and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and wisdom -- bhakti and jnana. And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also a Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online class on the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the unity in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya philosophy where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we create a harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. That's what Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. That's how She works." It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers and sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree Maa, and the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! Love, Dharmananda , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > that certainly puts it togeter. > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i have seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all the difference, and having a living example today > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > love, > > s > > , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> > wrote: > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of > > unity... > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care about > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- > versa > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > wrote: > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship > of > > the > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, > > there > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we > > will > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable > > Divine > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > commitment > > to > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast > others > > in > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the Goddess, > > SHE > > > IS > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, > > WITH > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Sponsor Click Here <http://rd./SIG=12c78v3gv/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1078789301/A=2019528/R=2/SIG=141r6m36o/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N3349.1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=107870> / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Dharmananda, yes this is so, thank you for including that journey description from Swamiji, it does depict an extremely inclusive yet detailed path. if you knew me, you would know i am not into right and wrong, but the shades of meaning can be at times interesting to look into with gentle souls, earnest to live with the love of God and peace. i recall reading Ramakrishna being critical of pundits, that sort of thing. why i mention this is, the pure intent of the soul that is expressing ... this is something i always enjoy seeing. and, there are also times (this is not necessarily one of them) when a person knows an "opposing" view thoroughly ... perhaps because he himself at one time promulgated it ... and can then appear to others as a threatening opponent or "enemy" of that point of view ... even though his own mind is actually untroubled. and then, there is young Sankara winning debates against the religious scholors of the day. at all times it is the clear, impartial mind, that "wins" ... yet there is no sense of winning ... but there was definitely an "argument" that occurred, and a resolution of sorts. on the other hand, without practice, i, for example, might bethe most negative person on earth. i make Gollum look happy. dark shadows and sarcasm i adore. well not really, but you get the idea! on the one hand, we wish to speak life words, and be always positive. on the other hand we need to make distinctions, which always in some way is a criticism of some action. this post is looking at the matter of human expression. as i write this, i do see at many reasons for being a mouni sadhu, if one's life can accommodate it and one's training is adequate to support it with real tapas. these matters are not ultimately resolved via words; there is rarely one answer in a world of multiplicity. surely, your view that unity and not suggesting negative views is superior. perhaps some day i will be capable of doing that, while also always cleaving to the truth. ultimately there is little of social approval or disapproval that matters, it is the content of one's sadhana and direct relationship to God/Guru/Self that has the greatest personal implication. or ... if i make a sound ... maybe it should be only: OMMMMMMMMM! s , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> wrote: > I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views about > passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the Divine are > among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so > appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language and tone > of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the essential > point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that kind > of language when only meaning to affirm something very positive about > our teachers and our practice. > > For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of > expression, I can think of no better example than our own beloved > Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and more > as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. Lately I > have been listening to the online classes which are truly wonderful. > Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, ecstatic, > and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his beloved > Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing the > aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, efficient, > clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual practice > and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and wisdom -- > bhakti and jnana. > > And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also a > Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online class on > the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the unity > in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya philosophy > where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we create a > harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. That's what > Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. That's > how She works." > > It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers and > sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree Maa, and > the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > Love, > > Dharmananda , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > that certainly puts it togeter. > > > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to > highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too > easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i have > seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all the > difference, and having a living example today > > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > > > love, > > > > s > > > > , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> > > wrote: > > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of > > > unity... > > > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more > > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care about > > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- > > versa > > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > > wrote: > > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate worship > > of > > > the > > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! Really, > > > there > > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the Vedantins > > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They mean > > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. And > > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, we > > > will > > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately and > > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards the > > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable > > > Divine > > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > > commitment > > > to > > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast > > others > > > in > > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > <lathananda> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship > PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the > Goddess, > > > SHE > > > > IS > > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, UNRESERVEDLY, > > > WITH > > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Steve, Thank your for your thoughtful reflections. Certainly criticism has it's place; rightly practiced, it's a form of discrimination. In my recent studies of Swamiji's teachings, I came across a passage (in one of the classes, I believe) where he was saying "reject worldliness; don't have anything to do with it!" So he was being critical not of different approaches to the Divine, but rather of a way of life which is a rejection of the Divine. Here again I find Swamiji's example as instructive as his words. (I am also a Western-born male, about Swamiji's age.) The choices he made in his life -- what to pursue and what to reject -- are inspiring. He chose a life fully committed to the worship and realization of the Divine, and rejected everything else, all the conventional possibilities and choices. This choice was an act of discrimination brought to life. In it there is an implicit criticism of worldliness, which he rejected, that gives great potency and authority to his words. He then pursued this choice with whole- hearted commitment and a remarkable intensity of practice. His story is like that of one of the great rishis described in the Puranas. I strongly suspect he was one! Indeed, he is today a true rishi among us. The example of his discrimination, his choices (and the criticism implied in what he did not choose), his practice, and more- than-evident results of that practice are a great inspiration to me. Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! Dharmananda > Dharmananda, > > yes this is so, thank you for including that journey description > from Swamiji, it does depict an extremely inclusive yet detailed > path. > > if you knew me, you would know i am not into right and wrong, but > the shades of meaning can be at times interesting to look into with > gentle souls, earnest to live with the love of God and peace. > > i recall reading Ramakrishna being critical of pundits, that sort of > thing. why i mention this is, the pure intent of the soul that is > expressing ... this is something i always enjoy seeing. and, there > are also times (this is not necessarily one of them) when a > person knows an "opposing" view thoroughly ... perhaps because he > himself at one time promulgated it ... and can then appear to others > as a threatening opponent or "enemy" of that point of view ... even > though his own mind is actually untroubled. > > and then, there is young Sankara winning debates against the > religious scholors of the day. at all times it is the clear, > impartial mind, that "wins" ... yet there is no sense of winning ... > but there was definitely an "argument" that occurred, and a > resolution of sorts. > > on the other hand, without practice, i, for example, might bethe > most negative person on earth. i make Gollum look happy. dark > shadows and sarcasm i adore. well not really, but you get the idea! > > on the one hand, we wish to speak life words, and be always > positive. on the other hand we need to make distinctions, which > always in some way is a criticism of some action. > > this post is looking at the matter of human expression. as i write > this, i do see at many reasons for being a mouni sadhu, if > one's life can accommodate it and one's training is adequate to > support it with real tapas. these matters are not ultimately > resolved via words; there is rarely one answer in a world of > multiplicity. surely, your view that unity and not suggesting > negative views is superior. perhaps some day i will be capable of > doing that, while also always cleaving to the truth. > > ultimately there is little of social approval or disapproval that > matters, it is the content of one's sadhana and direct relationship > to God/Guru/Self that has the greatest personal implication. > > or ... if i make a sound ... maybe it should be only: > > OMMMMMMMMM! > > s > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > wrote: > > I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views > about > > passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the Divine > are > > among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so > > appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language and > tone > > of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the essential > > point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that > kind > > of language when only meaning to affirm something very positive > about > > our teachers and our practice. > > > > For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of > > expression, I can think of no better example than our own beloved > > Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and > more > > as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. Lately > I > > have been listening to the online classes which are truly > wonderful. > > Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, ecstatic, > > and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his beloved > > Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing the > > aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, efficient, > > clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual > practice > > and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and wisdom -- > > bhakti and jnana. > > > > And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also a > > Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online class > on > > the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the > unity > > in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya > philosophy > > where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we create a > > harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. That's > what > > Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. > That's > > how She works." > > > > It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers and > > sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree Maa, > and > > the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > Love, > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > that certainly puts it togeter. > > > > > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to > > highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too > > easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i have > > seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all > the > > difference, and having a living example today > > > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > > > > > love, > > > > > > s > > > > > > , "kalibhakta" > <dr_hampton@h...> > > > wrote: > > > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance of > > > > unity... > > > > > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the more > > > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care > about > > > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- > > > versa > > > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" > <dharmananda@m...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate > worship > > > of > > > > the > > > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! > Really, > > > > there > > > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the > Vedantins > > > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They > mean > > > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. > And > > > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, > we > > > > will > > > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately > and > > > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards > the > > > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the imperishable > > > > Divine > > > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > > > commitment > > > > to > > > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast > > > others > > > > in > > > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > > <lathananda> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship > > PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the motions ... > > > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the > > Goddess, > > > > SHE > > > > > IS > > > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, > UNRESERVEDLY, > > > > WITH > > > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 yes i see what you are saying. i see how many of my own words are not really helpful. he is an inspiration. i wish for any small % of his inspiration and steadiness of purpose. can i ask, how do you integrate that kind of commitment to practice in your own life. i am not certain of swami's age ... i am 50. steve c. , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> wrote: > Steve, > > Thank your for your thoughtful reflections. Certainly criticism has > it's place; rightly practiced, it's a form of discrimination. In my > recent studies of Swamiji's teachings, I came across a passage (in > one of the classes, I believe) where he was saying "reject > worldliness; don't have anything to do with it!" So he was being > critical not of different approaches to the Divine, but rather of a > way of life which is a rejection of the Divine. > > Here again I find Swamiji's example as instructive as his words. (I > am also a Western-born male, about Swamiji's age.) The choices he > made in his life -- what to pursue and what to reject -- are > inspiring. He chose a life fully committed to the worship and > realization of the Divine, and rejected everything else, all the > conventional possibilities and choices. This choice was an act of > discrimination brought to life. In it there is an implicit criticism > of worldliness, which he rejected, that gives great potency and > authority to his words. He then pursued this choice with whole- > hearted commitment and a remarkable intensity of practice. His story > is like that of one of the great rishis described in the Puranas. I > strongly suspect he was one! Indeed, he is today a true rishi among > us. The example of his discrimination, his choices (and the > criticism implied in what he did not choose), his practice, and more- > than-evident results of that practice are a great inspiration to me. > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > Dharmananda > > > > > Dharmananda, > > > > yes this is so, thank you for including that journey description > > from Swamiji, it does depict an extremely inclusive yet detailed > > path. > > > > if you knew me, you would know i am not into right and wrong, but > > the shades of meaning can be at times interesting to look into with > > gentle souls, earnest to live with the love of God and peace. > > > > i recall reading Ramakrishna being critical of pundits, that sort > of > > thing. why i mention this is, the pure intent of the soul that is > > expressing ... this is something i always enjoy seeing. and, there > > are also times (this is not necessarily one of them) when a > > person knows an "opposing" view thoroughly ... perhaps because he > > himself at one time promulgated it ... and can then appear to > others > > as a threatening opponent or "enemy" of that point of view ... even > > though his own mind is actually untroubled. > > > > and then, there is young Sankara winning debates against the > > religious scholors of the day. at all times it is the clear, > > impartial mind, that "wins" ... yet there is no sense of > winning ... > > but there was definitely an "argument" that occurred, and a > > resolution of sorts. > > > > on the other hand, without practice, i, for example, might bethe > > most negative person on earth. i make Gollum look happy. dark > > shadows and sarcasm i adore. well not really, but you get the idea! > > > > on the one hand, we wish to speak life words, and be always > > positive. on the other hand we need to make distinctions, which > > always in some way is a criticism of some action. > > > > this post is looking at the matter of human expression. as i write > > this, i do see at many reasons for being a mouni sadhu, if > > one's life can accommodate it and one's training is adequate to > > support it with real tapas. these matters are not ultimately > > resolved via words; there is rarely one answer in a world of > > multiplicity. surely, your view that unity and not suggesting > > negative views is superior. perhaps some day i will be capable of > > doing that, while also always cleaving to the truth. > > > > ultimately there is little of social approval or disapproval that > > matters, it is the content of one's sadhana and direct relationship > > to God/Guru/Self that has the greatest personal implication. > > > > or ... if i make a sound ... maybe it should be only: > > > > OMMMMMMMMM! > > > > s > > > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > wrote: > > > I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views > > about > > > passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the Divine > > are > > > among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so > > > appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language and > > tone > > > of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the > essential > > > point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that > > kind > > > of language when only meaning to affirm something very positive > > about > > > our teachers and our practice. > > > > > > For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of > > > expression, I can think of no better example than our own beloved > > > Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and > > more > > > as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. > Lately > > I > > > have been listening to the online classes which are truly > > wonderful. > > > Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, > ecstatic, > > > and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his > beloved > > > Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing the > > > aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, efficient, > > > clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual > > practice > > > and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and wisdom -- > > > bhakti and jnana. > > > > > > And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also a > > > Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online > class > > on > > > the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the > > unity > > > in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya > > philosophy > > > where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we create > a > > > harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. That's > > what > > > Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. > > That's > > > how She works." > > > > > > It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers and > > > sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree Maa, > > and > > > the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. > > > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > that certainly puts it togeter. > > > > > > > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to > > > highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where too > > > easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i > have > > > seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes all > > the > > > difference, and having a living example today > > > > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > > > > > > > love, > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > , "kalibhakta" > > <dr_hampton@h...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the importance > of > > > > > unity... > > > > > > > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the > more > > > > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we care > > about > > > > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > > > > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure vice- > > > > versa > > > > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > > > > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" > > <dharmananda@m...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate > > worship > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! > > Really, > > > > > there > > > > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the > > Vedantins > > > > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! They > > mean > > > > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of samsara. > > And > > > > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of samsara, > > we > > > > > will > > > > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be passionately > > and > > > > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion towards > > the > > > > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the > imperishable > > > > > Divine > > > > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > > > > commitment > > > > > to > > > > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which cast > > > > others > > > > > in > > > > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > > > <lathananda> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship > > > PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the > motions ... > > > > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts be > > > > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the > > > Goddess, > > > > > SHE > > > > > > IS > > > > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, > > UNRESERVEDLY, > > > > > WITH > > > > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Namaste Dharmananda, You captured my spirit correctly - I just want to affirm my love for worshipping with passion. Nothing else. I would like to share a story that I found amongst Swami Sivananda's parable collection. JAI MAA Latha ============================================================ A foolish devotee had a golden image of Buddha, which she took with her wherever she went. In the course of her wanderings, she came to a monastery where hundreds of images of Buddha were present. She did not like the other Buddhas, she liked only her own. Whenever she burnt incense before her Buddha, she never liked that the fumes should go to the others. She drew a curtain round the image. In a few months her Buddha became dark and grim, while the others were shining brighter, still. Similar is the case with the narrow-hearted persons. They do not honour others' faith. But as a river without tributaries suffers dearth, their faith too lacks firmness and dies immature death. One should develop the heart to embrace the other faiths, also. The religion that embraces all and fights with none is the real religion. Such a religion alone will endure, while others will vanish like bubbles. Such an enduring religion is the religion of truth, purity, non-violence and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 oh that is a good story. this is one of the essences of ramakrishna, isn't it? that universality? i love it. i want some! haha pranams ramakrishna, lathananda, dharmananda ... phat! ... svaha! ... my mind is now free ... steve , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Namaste Dharmananda, > > You captured my spirit correctly - I just want to affirm my love > for worshipping with passion. Nothing else. I would like to share a story > that I found amongst Swami Sivananda's parable collection. > > JAI MAA > Latha > ============================================================ > > A foolish devotee had a golden image of Buddha, which she took with > her wherever she went. In the course of her wanderings, she came to a > monastery where hundreds of images of Buddha were present. She did > not like the other Buddhas, she liked only her own. Whenever she > burnt incense before her Buddha, she never liked that the fumes > should go to the others. She drew a curtain round the image. In a few > months her Buddha became dark and grim, while the others were shining > brighter, still. > > Similar is the case with the narrow-hearted persons. They do not > honour others' faith. But as a river without tributaries suffers > dearth, their faith too lacks firmness and dies immature death. One > should develop the heart to embrace the other faiths, also. The > religion that embraces all and fights with none is the real religion. > Such a religion alone will endure, while others will vanish like > bubbles. Such an enduring religion is the religion of truth, purity, > non-violence and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Steve, I feel hesitant to discuss details of personal practice in an internet forum (and I would rather talk about Swamiji and Shree Maa than about me!), but in my own case I was fortunate to feel long ago that it was imperative for me to organize my life in such as way as to make available all my time for sadhana. So I worked towards this end and this has now been the case for me for a long time. I have been glad to see that Swamiji strongly recommends orienting oneself in this way. I used to feel that I was overly concerned with efficiency, and maybe I was, but it has definitely had its benefits in creating an auspicious life circumstance. I had never heard the term "sadhu" defined as "an efficient one" until I enountered Swamiji's teaching, but I love it! And I think he captures the essence of what it is to be a sadhu better than anyone I've ever seen. I am loving all of Swamiji's translations because he has magically combined the virtues of 1) Remaining faithful to the original Sanskrit; 2) Bringing out the deeper spiritual meanings; and 3) putting all of this in highly readable English. What a wonder! I am not certain of Swamiji's age either -- I'd like to know -- but I have made a reasonable guess based on the dates and details given in "Sahib Sadhu". I believe he was born in the mid-forties. Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! Dharmananda , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > yes i see what you are saying. i see how many of my own words are > not really helpful. he is an inspiration. i wish for any small % of > his inspiration and steadiness of purpose. > > can i ask, how do you integrate that kind of commitment to practice > in your own life. > > i am not certain of swami's age ... i am 50. > > steve c. > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > wrote: > > Steve, > > > > Thank your for your thoughtful reflections. Certainly criticism > has > > it's place; rightly practiced, it's a form of discrimination. In > my > > recent studies of Swamiji's teachings, I came across a passage (in > > one of the classes, I believe) where he was saying "reject > > worldliness; don't have anything to do with it!" So he was being > > critical not of different approaches to the Divine, but rather of > a > > way of life which is a rejection of the Divine. > > > > Here again I find Swamiji's example as instructive as his words. > (I > > am also a Western-born male, about Swamiji's age.) The choices he > > made in his life -- what to pursue and what to reject -- are > > inspiring. He chose a life fully committed to the worship and > > realization of the Divine, and rejected everything else, all the > > conventional possibilities and choices. This choice was an act of > > discrimination brought to life. In it there is an implicit > criticism > > of worldliness, which he rejected, that gives great potency and > > authority to his words. He then pursued this choice with whole- > > hearted commitment and a remarkable intensity of practice. His > story > > is like that of one of the great rishis described in the Puranas. > I > > strongly suspect he was one! Indeed, he is today a true rishi > among > > us. The example of his discrimination, his choices (and the > > criticism implied in what he did not choose), his practice, and > more- > > than-evident results of that practice are a great inspiration to > me. > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda, > > > > > > yes this is so, thank you for including that journey description > > > from Swamiji, it does depict an extremely inclusive yet detailed > > > path. > > > > > > if you knew me, you would know i am not into right and wrong, > but > > > the shades of meaning can be at times interesting to look into > with > > > gentle souls, earnest to live with the love of God and peace. > > > > > > i recall reading Ramakrishna being critical of pundits, that > sort > > of > > > thing. why i mention this is, the pure intent of the soul that > is > > > expressing ... this is something i always enjoy seeing. and, > there > > > are also times (this is not necessarily one of them) when a > > > person knows an "opposing" view thoroughly ... perhaps because > he > > > himself at one time promulgated it ... and can then appear to > > others > > > as a threatening opponent or "enemy" of that point of view ... > even > > > though his own mind is actually untroubled. > > > > > > and then, there is young Sankara winning debates against the > > > religious scholors of the day. at all times it is the clear, > > > impartial mind, that "wins" ... yet there is no sense of > > winning ... > > > but there was definitely an "argument" that occurred, and a > > > resolution of sorts. > > > > > > on the other hand, without practice, i, for example, might bethe > > > most negative person on earth. i make Gollum look happy. dark > > > shadows and sarcasm i adore. well not really, but you get the > idea! > > > > > > on the one hand, we wish to speak life words, and be always > > > positive. on the other hand we need to make distinctions, which > > > always in some way is a criticism of some action. > > > > > > this post is looking at the matter of human expression. as i > write > > > this, i do see at many reasons for being a mouni sadhu, if > > > one's life can accommodate it and one's training is adequate to > > > support it with real tapas. these matters are not ultimately > > > resolved via words; there is rarely one answer in a world of > > > multiplicity. surely, your view that unity and not suggesting > > > negative views is superior. perhaps some day i will be capable > of > > > doing that, while also always cleaving to the truth. > > > > > > ultimately there is little of social approval or disapproval > that > > > matters, it is the content of one's sadhana and direct > relationship > > > to God/Guru/Self that has the greatest personal implication. > > > > > > or ... if i make a sound ... maybe it should be only: > > > > > > OMMMMMMMMM! > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > > wrote: > > > > I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) views > > > about > > > > passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the > Divine > > > are > > > > among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so > > > > appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language > and > > > tone > > > > of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the > > essential > > > > point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into that > > > kind > > > > of language when only meaning to affirm something very > positive > > > about > > > > our teachers and our practice. > > > > > > > > For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of > > > > expression, I can think of no better example than our own > beloved > > > > Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more and > > > more > > > > as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. > > Lately > > > I > > > > have been listening to the online classes which are truly > > > wonderful. > > > > Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, > > ecstatic, > > > > and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his > > beloved > > > > Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing > the > > > > aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, > efficient, > > > > clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual > > > practice > > > > and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and > wisdom -- > > > > bhakti and jnana. > > > > > > > > And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is also > a > > > > Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online > > class > > > on > > > > the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the > > > unity > > > > in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya > > > philosophy > > > > where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we > create > > a > > > > harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. > That's > > > what > > > > Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. > > > That's > > > > how She works." > > > > > > > > It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers > and > > > > sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree > Maa, > > > and > > > > the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. > > > > > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "bingo_ridley" > <sconnor@a...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > that certainly puts it togeter. > > > > > > > > > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to > > > > highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where > too > > > > easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i > > have > > > > seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes > all > > > the > > > > difference, and having a living example today > > > > > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > > > > > > > > > love, > > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > > , "kalibhakta" > > > <dr_hampton@h...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the > importance > > of > > > > > > unity... > > > > > > > > > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the > > more > > > > > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we > care > > > about > > > > > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > > > > > > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure > vice- > > > > > versa > > > > > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" > > > <dharmananda@m...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate > > > worship > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! > > > Really, > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the > > > Vedantins > > > > > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! > They > > > mean > > > > > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of > samsara. > > > And > > > > > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of > samsara, > > > we > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be > passionately > > > and > > > > > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion > towards > > > the > > > > > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the > > imperishable > > > > > > Divine > > > > > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > > > > > commitment > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which > cast > > > > > others > > > > > > in > > > > > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > > > > <lathananda> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship > > > > PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the > > motions ... > > > > > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the thoughts > be > > > > > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the > > > > Goddess, > > > > > > SHE > > > > > > > IS > > > > > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, > > > UNRESERVEDLY, > > > > > > WITH > > > > > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds nice ....but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 all that you said is interesting. and that is inspiring you were able to do that re: arranging your life. OM! jai shiva! God Speed! , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> wrote: > Steve, > > I feel hesitant to discuss details of personal practice in an > internet forum (and I would rather talk about Swamiji and Shree Maa > than about me!), but in my own case I was fortunate to feel long ago > that it was imperative for me to organize my life in such as way as > to make available all my time for sadhana. So I worked towards this > end and this has now been the case for me for a long time. I have > been glad to see that Swamiji strongly recommends orienting oneself > in this way. I used to feel that I was overly concerned with > efficiency, and maybe I was, but it has definitely had its benefits > in creating an auspicious life circumstance. > > I had never heard the term "sadhu" defined as "an efficient one" > until I enountered Swamiji's teaching, but I love it! And I think he > captures the essence of what it is to be a sadhu better than anyone > I've ever seen. I am loving all of Swamiji's translations because he > has magically combined the virtues of 1) Remaining faithful to the > original Sanskrit; 2) Bringing out the deeper spiritual meanings; and > 3) putting all of this in highly readable English. What a wonder! > > I am not certain of Swamiji's age either -- I'd like to know -- but I > have made a reasonable guess based on the dates and details given > in "Sahib Sadhu". I believe he was born in the mid-forties. > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > Dharmananda > > > > > > , "bingo_ridley" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > yes i see what you are saying. i see how many of my own words are > > not really helpful. he is an inspiration. i wish for any small % of > > his inspiration and steadiness of purpose. > > > > can i ask, how do you integrate that kind of commitment to practice > > in your own life. > > > > i am not certain of swami's age ... i am 50. > > > > steve c. > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > > > Thank your for your thoughtful reflections. Certainly criticism > > has > > > it's place; rightly practiced, it's a form of discrimination. In > > my > > > recent studies of Swamiji's teachings, I came across a passage > (in > > > one of the classes, I believe) where he was saying "reject > > > worldliness; don't have anything to do with it!" So he was being > > > critical not of different approaches to the Divine, but rather of > > a > > > way of life which is a rejection of the Divine. > > > > > > Here again I find Swamiji's example as instructive as his words. > > (I > > > am also a Western-born male, about Swamiji's age.) The choices > he > > > made in his life -- what to pursue and what to reject -- are > > > inspiring. He chose a life fully committed to the worship and > > > realization of the Divine, and rejected everything else, all the > > > conventional possibilities and choices. This choice was an act > of > > > discrimination brought to life. In it there is an implicit > > criticism > > > of worldliness, which he rejected, that gives great potency and > > > authority to his words. He then pursued this choice with whole- > > > hearted commitment and a remarkable intensity of practice. His > > story > > > is like that of one of the great rishis described in the > Puranas. > > I > > > strongly suspect he was one! Indeed, he is today a true rishi > > among > > > us. The example of his discrimination, his choices (and the > > > criticism implied in what he did not choose), his practice, and > > more- > > > than-evident results of that practice are a great inspiration to > > me. > > > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda, > > > > > > > > yes this is so, thank you for including that journey > description > > > > from Swamiji, it does depict an extremely inclusive yet > detailed > > > > path. > > > > > > > > if you knew me, you would know i am not into right and wrong, > > but > > > > the shades of meaning can be at times interesting to look into > > with > > > > gentle souls, earnest to live with the love of God and peace. > > > > > > > > i recall reading Ramakrishna being critical of pundits, that > > sort > > > of > > > > thing. why i mention this is, the pure intent of the soul that > > is > > > > expressing ... this is something i always enjoy seeing. and, > > there > > > > are also times (this is not necessarily one of them) when a > > > > person knows an "opposing" view thoroughly ... perhaps because > > he > > > > himself at one time promulgated it ... and can then appear to > > > others > > > > as a threatening opponent or "enemy" of that point of view ... > > even > > > > though his own mind is actually untroubled. > > > > > > > > and then, there is young Sankara winning debates against the > > > > religious scholors of the day. at all times it is the clear, > > > > impartial mind, that "wins" ... yet there is no sense of > > > winning ... > > > > but there was definitely an "argument" that occurred, and a > > > > resolution of sorts. > > > > > > > > on the other hand, without practice, i, for example, might > bethe > > > > most negative person on earth. i make Gollum look happy. dark > > > > shadows and sarcasm i adore. well not really, but you get the > > idea! > > > > > > > > on the one hand, we wish to speak life words, and be always > > > > positive. on the other hand we need to make distinctions, which > > > > always in some way is a criticism of some action. > > > > > > > > this post is looking at the matter of human expression. as i > > write > > > > this, i do see at many reasons for being a mouni sadhu, if > > > > one's life can accommodate it and one's training is adequate to > > > > support it with real tapas. these matters are not ultimately > > > > resolved via words; there is rarely one answer in a world of > > > > multiplicity. surely, your view that unity and not suggesting > > > > negative views is superior. perhaps some day i will be capable > > of > > > > doing that, while also always cleaving to the truth. > > > > > > > > ultimately there is little of social approval or disapproval > > that > > > > matters, it is the content of one's sadhana and direct > > relationship > > > > to God/Guru/Self that has the greatest personal implication. > > > > > > > > or ... if i make a sound ... maybe it should be only: > > > > > > > > OMMMMMMMMM! > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" <dharmananda@m...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > I am certainly in agreement with Latha's (and Swamiji's) > views > > > > about > > > > > passion in worship. Their intensity and passion for the > > Divine > > > > are > > > > > among the many things about Swamiji and Shree Maa that are so > > > > > appealing. I was only addressing the "comparative" language > > and > > > > tone > > > > > of Latha's post -- the "us versus them" stuff -- not the > > > essential > > > > > point. I know it's easy, but not necessary, to fall into > that > > > > kind > > > > > of language when only meaning to affirm something very > > positive > > > > about > > > > > our teachers and our practice. > > > > > > > > > > For one who has obviously transcended such divisive forms of > > > > > expression, I can think of no better example than our own > > beloved > > > > > Swamiji, who I have come to love, respect, and admire more > and > > > > more > > > > > as I have increasing contact with his books and teachings. > > > Lately > > > > I > > > > > have been listening to the online classes which are truly > > > > wonderful. > > > > > Swamiji is intense, passionate, committed, enthusiastic, > > > ecstatic, > > > > > and overflowing with wisdom and joy, and with love for his > > > beloved > > > > > Devi and for all. At the same time (and in no way opposing > > the > > > > > aforementioned) he is sober, level-headed, functional, > > efficient, > > > > > clear-thinking, and filled with common sense about spiritual > > > > practice > > > > > and realization. He is a perfect blend of devotion and > > wisdom -- > > > > > bhakti and jnana. > > > > > > > > > > And besides being a passionate lover of the Divine, he is > also > > a > > > > > Vedantin! As he says himself at the end of the first online > > > class > > > > on > > > > > the Chandi: "...our job is to move from the diversity to the > > > > unity > > > > > in diversity, and then to the unity. We move from Shankya > > > > philosophy > > > > > where we perceive in duality, to Yoga philosophy where we > > create > > > a > > > > > harmony, to Vedanta philosophy where there is only One. > > That's > > > > what > > > > > Chandi will do for us. She will take us along this journey. > > > > That's > > > > > how She works." > > > > > > > > > > It is a great pleasure for me to share with you, my brothers > > and > > > > > sisters, our mutual love and appreciation for Swamiji, Shree > > Maa, > > > > and > > > > > the wonderful work of Devi Mandir. > > > > > > > > > > Jai Swamiji! Jai Maa!! > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "bingo_ridley" > > <sconnor@a...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > that certainly puts it togeter. > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i don't believe her intent was to trash anyone, but to > > > > > highlight the potency of swamiji's devotion in a world where > > too > > > > > easily does even matters of the spirit become intellectual. i > > > have > > > > > seen this myself, and within myself. that heart-on-fire makes > > all > > > > the > > > > > difference, and having a living example today > > > > > > is obviously an advantage to the seeker. > > > > > > > > > > > > love, > > > > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > > > > , "kalibhakta" > > > > <dr_hampton@h...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > thank you, Dharmananda, for your reminder of the > > importance > > > of > > > > > > > unity... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by the grace of the Guru it's been my experience that the > > > more > > > > > > > passionate we get about our Divine Mother, the less we > > care > > > > about > > > > > > > those samsaric ups & downs... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so passion necessarily leads to detachment, and I'm sure > > vice- > > > > > > versa > > > > > > > (I think of Tota Puri!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalibhakta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "ma1973" > > > > <dharmananda@m...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, but in affirming our commitment to the passionate > > > > worship > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Divine, there is no need to trash the poor Vedantins! > > > > Really, > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is no contradiction. In counseling dispassion, the > > > > Vedantins > > > > > > > > certainly don't mean dispassion towards the Divine! > > They > > > > mean > > > > > > > > dispassion towards the constant ups and downs of > > samsara. > > > > And > > > > > > > > indeed, if we are entangled in the vicissitudes of > > samsara, > > > > we > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > lack the free attention to really, truly, be > > passionately > > > > and > > > > > > > > intensely involved in our worship. So dispassion > > towards > > > > the > > > > > > > > perishable and impermanent, and passion for the > > > imperishable > > > > > > > Divine > > > > > > > > go hand in hand. We can happily affirm our passionate > > > > > > commitment > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the Divine without any need for such comparisons which > > cast > > > > > > others > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > an unfavorable light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Love and Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharmananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > > > > > <lathananda> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Vedantins advise us to look at life dispassionately . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji says what matter more is that we worship > > > > > PASSIONATELY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not enough to say that we worship ... > > > > > > > > > not enough that we sit there and go through the > > > motions ... > > > > > > > > > not enough to say all the right words and the > thoughts > > be > > > > > > > > > elsewhere .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we sit in front of our altars and we invite the > > > > > Goddess, > > > > > > > SHE > > > > > > > > IS > > > > > > > > > THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US watching us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we give ourselves JOYFULLY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, > > > > UNRESERVEDLY, > > > > > > > WITH > > > > > > > > > ABANDON to our worship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at life dispassionately ..? Sounds > nice ....but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's way works better ....for me ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will give her ALL I got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI MAA ! > > > > > > > > > JAI SWAMIJI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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