Reincarnation as plants

[Kalkin714 0]

In the Kathopanishad it says about the soul at death:

 

"Some enter a womb by which an embodied Self obtains a body,</br>Others pass into staionary things-" (2.6,7)

 

What do you think?

 

Aum! Shanti!

[narayanadasa 0]

 

In the Kathopanishad it says about the soul at death:

"Some enter a womb by which an embodied Self obtains a body,</br>Others pass into staionary things-" (2.6,7)

What do you think?

Aum! Shanti!

Jai Sriman Narayana:

Plants dont acquire new Karma.. they just exhaust some specific past ones after which the soul (in the plant) may be re-born as a human or animal or some other species or even get liberated based on the remaining Karma.

[imranhasan 0]

Hello Narayanadasa, I request some clarification on the following:

 

Plants dont acquire new Karma.. they just exhaust some specific past ones after which the soul (in the plant) may be re-born as a human or animal or some other species or even get liberated based on the remaining Karma.

Don't the souls advance from lower forms to higher forms on the basis of their good behavior, by choice? What is a good behavior that a plant has choice in? What is a bad one? When you say that plants do not acquire new karma, does that mean that plants do not do good deeds, by choice? How does a plant exhaust a specific past karma? I would really appreciate some elaboration on this.

Thank you.

[narayanadasa 0]

 

Hello Narayanadasa, I request some clarification on the following:

Don't the souls advance from lower forms to higher forms on the basis of their good behavior, by choice? What is a good behavior that a plant has choice in? What is a bad one? When you say that plants do not acquire new karma, does that mean that plants do not do good deeds, by choice? How does a plant exhaust a specific past karma? I would really appreciate some elaboration on this.

Thank you.

Jai Sriman Narayana:

Seems like you are assuming that to exhaust one type of Karma you have to do an equal and opposite karma. This need not be the case always.

Plants do no accumulate new Karma - both good and bad. Their previous Karma entitled that to JUST EXHAUST some specific type of Karma they should just be born / grow / die as plants... they dont need to do some new Karma to exhaust these.

For some bad Karma to drop, we have do some good Karma. So, being born as a plant with no Vak (speech, communciation) and Manas (Mind, ego) itself provides enough room for the bad Karma to drop off by itself without doing any equal opposite good karma.

Now coming to evolution, at the end of plant life since plants have exhausted some specific bad Karma, they have indeed evolved to be born again as a different species (may be human, animal etc).

I started another thread titled "Vak, Manas and Prana". Please read that for more information.

[Guest guest]

I would suggest that we not make equations out of all this. The fact remains we don't know, and the greatness of the religion is that it allows us to question, challenge and refute in our spiritual quest. "Live the life" is the motto and not discuss/argue the grammatical details. We cannot confine the Dharma to a set of formulas based on reincarnation or similar.

 

That said, an answer may be: a non-human being does not necessarily retreat or advance based on its bad or good deeds. It does not accumulate or lose karma OF its life: rather it may enter this life due to the karma of a past human life OR may simply proceed through this stage as part of the journey of every soul. The human life is an opportunity to break the cycle and attain freedom/realization of soul and God. If done, you are liberated and no longer subject to a cycle of ignorance; if not and you make terrible blunders, you simply reenter for another round and perhaps go through a series of lives at lower levels expending the karma through SUFFERING, IGNORANCE, etc. To be in the bliss of spiritual ignorance is itself a great punishment, and from that standpoint, many human beings also must go through such stages revelling in lower levels of tamas before the experience of such living leads them to spiritual life. But the point must be kept clear. In all cases, the soul changeth not, and being eternal, there is no concept of rush in which the plant's soul must hurry to attain the human state and attain liberation. This is difficult to digest as we find ourselves rushing always; but Truth does not change no matter the shades of ignorance that seem to hide it.

[imranhasan 0]

 

Jai Sriman Narayana:

Seems like you are assuming that to exhaust one type of Karma you have to do an equal and opposite karma. This need not be the case always.

Ok. I see.

 

Plants do no accumulate new Karma - both good and bad. Their previous Karma entitled that to JUST EXHAUST some specific type of Karma they should just be born / grow / die as plants... they dont need to do some new Karma to exhaust these.

Is this because plants do not have the freedom to do good and bad?

 

For some bad Karma to drop, we have do some good Karma. So, being born as a plant with no Vak (speech, communciation) and Manas (Mind, ego) itself provides enough room for the bad Karma to drop off by itself without doing any equal opposite good karma.

Ok. I see. So would I be correct to derive that being born as a plant is a kind of a pay back for any bad deeds?

 

Now coming to evolution, at the end of plant life since plants have exhausted some specific bad Karma, they have indeed evolved to be born again as a different species (may be human, animal etc).

Got it. Thank you very much. Would this also be true for animals?

 

I started another thread titled "Vak, Manas and Prana". Please read that for more information.

I will. Thank you.

[Guest guest]

 

In the Kathopanishad it says about the soul at death:

"Some enter a womb by which an embodied Self obtains a body,</br>Others pass into staionary things-" (2.6,7)

What do you think?

Aum! Shanti!

 

Katha Upanishad 2.6 and 2.7 say nothing like the above. Yama is instructing Nachiketa on Atman. Please check a proper source.

 

I am yet to see a clear reference to reincarnation in the Veda.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

Since we don't know much about plants and animals in terms of what goes on in their minds (if one assumes a plant has some form of consciousness) and spirits, it can be hard to immediatly assume that humans are the top rung of the ladder. It could be, for all we know, that something like whales or dolphins are an even higher and more enlightened form than we humans are. Various religions put mankind at the top, but that could be the influence of egocentrism that can sometimes manages to flavor a religion over the course of history.

 

As for plants, they take in carbon dioxide and give us oxygen in return. Assuming humans don't wipe them all out or pollute the air faster than they can cleanse it, they play a pretty good role in the grand scheme of things. Karma aside, they're a living thing that has a beneficial presence, so that could potentially weigh in favor of a spirit that is spending time as a plant. Just a thought.

[Kalkin714 0]

 

Katha Upanishad 2.6 and 2.7 say nothing like the above. Yama is instructing Nachiketa on Atman. Please check a proper source.

I am yet to see a clear reference to reincarnation in the Veda.

Cheers

Yes it's 5.7, I must have misread it while I was typing it out. Here's all of 5.6,7:

"Come, I'll tell you this secret and eternal formulation of truth (brahman);

And what happens to the self (atman),

Guatama, when it encounters death.

Some enter a womb by which an embodied self obtains a body,

others pass into stationary things-

according to what they have done,

according to what they have learned"

[Kalkin714 0]

Here is more evidence of reincarnation in the Upanishads:

"A man who's attatched goes with his action,

to that very place which

his mind and carater cling.

Reaching the end of his action,

of whatever he has done in this world-

From that world he returns

back to this world,

back to action."

~Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.6

"From death to death he goes, who sees any kind of diversity here"

~ Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.19

The term used in this last one, 'From death to death he goes', I's say is used atleast twenty times in the major Upanishads.

[Guest guest]

You are right. So we do have explicit references to reincarnation in the Upanishads.

 

Cheers